Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37]


BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 08:28 PM
Bobert 11 Mar 11 - 08:31 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 08:33 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 09:17 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 10:01 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Mar 11 - 10:22 PM
GUEST,number 6 11 Mar 11 - 10:23 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 10:25 PM
Peace 11 Mar 11 - 10:31 PM
artbrooks 11 Mar 11 - 10:34 PM
Donuel 11 Mar 11 - 10:36 PM
GUEST,number 6 11 Mar 11 - 10:36 PM
Jeri 11 Mar 11 - 10:38 PM
Ron Davies 12 Mar 11 - 01:26 AM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 11 - 01:50 AM
Donuel 12 Mar 11 - 02:02 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Mar 11 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 12 Mar 11 - 04:54 AM
Jack Campin 12 Mar 11 - 04:57 AM
Will Fly 12 Mar 11 - 05:09 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Mar 11 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,John MacKenzie 12 Mar 11 - 05:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Mar 11 - 05:39 AM
bubblyrat 12 Mar 11 - 05:54 AM
GUEST,999 12 Mar 11 - 08:46 AM
Donuel 12 Mar 11 - 09:46 AM
Jack Campin 12 Mar 11 - 10:03 AM
artbrooks 12 Mar 11 - 10:04 AM
Charley Noble 12 Mar 11 - 10:06 AM
number 6 12 Mar 11 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,999 12 Mar 11 - 10:10 AM
Donuel 12 Mar 11 - 10:16 AM
Charley Noble 12 Mar 11 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,999 12 Mar 11 - 10:31 AM
Charley Noble 12 Mar 11 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,999 12 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,999 12 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM
gnu 12 Mar 11 - 11:36 AM
gnu 12 Mar 11 - 11:44 AM
number 6 12 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM
Charley Noble 12 Mar 11 - 11:51 AM
SINSULL 12 Mar 11 - 11:57 AM
number 6 12 Mar 11 - 11:59 AM
gnu 12 Mar 11 - 12:05 PM
josepp 12 Mar 11 - 12:07 PM
josepp 12 Mar 11 - 12:14 PM
Bettynh 12 Mar 11 - 12:24 PM
josepp 12 Mar 11 - 12:37 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM

Japan's oldest reactor is now 1000% more radioactive than yesterday.
An explosion is a possible outcome.
A meltdown of les destructive proportions is also possible.

If it explodes (and it could) it will be a fission event with more fuel than any ever detonated on earth.

IF TWO OR MORE NUCLEAR PLANTS IN JAPAN MELTDOWN BEYOND THE CONTAINMENT BUILDING:

Wind currents will disperse radioactive cesium, Iodine, Strontium, plutonium and other nasty atoms world wide.

Of the dizens if nuclear plants in Japan, currently the oldest one bulit in 1960 and finished in 1970 is in the most serious condition of being unable to cool the fuel rods which are now venting radiactive steam. Once the un-cooled water turns entirely to steam the fuel will melt and may or may not be contained in the old brittle vessel. The steel in an old plant being bombarded by protons and neutrons for decades will behave like steet that is hundreds of years old. If heated or cooled rapidly the steel will crack wide open. This N plant has no electricity to run the cooling pumps after the back up generators flooded, the back up batteries have run out hours ago.
This part is speculative but when it was reported that Russia and America are rushing "COOLANT" to Japan's N plant it may be referring to powered boroon to dump on top of the reactor to ease the risk of ...gulp detonation...the same way Russian firefighters did on Chernobyl. All the first responding firefighters who dumped the boron from helicopters died within weeks.

A second critical N plant is also having trouble cooling down.


Hillary Clinton said we are sending coolant to Japan. The airforce says they they do not know of any flights of coolant.
(Maybe we shipped it Federal Express?!)



How will a looming nuclear disaster as well as the earthquake (which pales in comparison), effect the rest of the world?

Financially only about 10 to 20% of Japan's losses are covered by insurance.

Insurance does not cover natural disasters of nuclear accidents. Even your home owners policy will say this.
The special insurance for natural and atomic accidents is sold in large part by AIG. 70% of AIG is in receivership to the taxpayers of the US. AIG would need a bail out to cover the pay outs.

Toyota and Nissan are shut down with no reopen date in mind.

Imagine buying a product from Japan you might suspect of being radioactive. Not good for business.

Hyundai will take over the Toyota market share of Toyota and Nissan for a year or more.

Japan has a current debt margin of 200% compared to the United States debt margin of 25%

After WW2 the US had a margin of 100.



The US will have to provide money and resources equivalent to what we spend in Iraq and Afghanistan every week which is about 2.5 billion.
If we are serious about saving Japan, we should consider declaring victory in Afghanistan this coming Monday and shift to help Japan. As Bush senior said "Na-gonna-doit"



If it melts but does not go critical it is difficult to ever clean up as water explodes from a deep radioactive hole in the ground. If the Zircon shield at the bottom of the reactor holds the way the 3 Mile Island Plant did, we all be very lucky indeed. Since the N plants are next to the sea. I'm sure you can see the difficulty containing the problem if it goes catastrophic.



Again if the N plants (one or more) melt down there will be more death in slow motion over decades.

There is no such thing as one possible outcome.

The outcome of a meltdown ranges from an enormous bomb event to a persistent radiation event

WHAT CAN YOU DO?
In the weeks to come please buy and take Iodine pills as directed. Stop drinking milk and cheeses made after the end of March.
Monitor/measure radioactivity in outside swimming pools.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:28 PM

Worst case scenario is that Japan will lose over half of thier Island nation to an uninhabited danger zone similar to a Chrnobyl death zone.

Best case scenario, the plant is saved in the nick of time and the damage is limited to the readioactive steam that has already been released.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:31 PM

This could very well be as bad as Chernobyl if they can't get the bad-boy cooled down... And fast... Make Three Mile Island look like a pleasant Sunday afternoon picnic...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:33 PM

They are completely different kinds of reactors but the U238 and PU are the same.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:17 PM

The radioactivity is 8 times normal and rising outside the plant.
We are officially 8 to 12 houra away from some form of a melt down event.

My Pharmacy did not have any dietary Idodine. Seaweed is high in Iodine. It prevents the uptake of radioactive Iodine in your Thyroid gland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:01 PM

5 seperate Japanese reactors are at this moment hours away from meltdowns.

tick tick tick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:21 PM

Heeeeere's the best link


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:22 PM

I checked at my pharmacy for iodine too...I am SOL if it happens. mg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:23 PM

... tick ... tick ... tick

and the suckers do meltdown the prevailing jet stream winds could pick up some of that stuff blow it from Japan directly across the Pacific ocean to the west coast of the United States.


biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:25 PM

Here is the actual meltdown


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:31 PM

Georgia Tech Nuclear expert: Japan's nuclear plant doesn't sound dire

ShareThis PrintE-mail
By Ty Tagami
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The alarming news coming from Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant doesn't worry one of Atlanta's experts on nuclear reactors.


Farzad Rahnema, a Georgia Tech professor of nuclear engineering, had been reading stories that hinted at the possibility of a meltdown at the plant, which was shaken by the massive earthquake there. But he said the details he'd gleaned from those accounts, and from industry reports, suggested that a meltdown was unlikely.

The word conjures images of the Chernobyl plant in the former Soviet Union, and the devastation it wrought when its reactor melted down. Will the Fukushima plant disgorge hot nuclear fuel, dumping radiation into the air and sea?

"I don't think this thing is anywhere close to that," said Rahnema, who studies reactor safety. He added a caveat -- his opinion was based on "sketchy" details. But he said the fact that plant officials hadn't deemed it necessary to activate an emergency cooling system was reassuring.

Despite a loss of power to the plant's primary cooling system, it appeared officials were able to obtain backup power, he said, basing that opinion on a terse statement issued by the Tokyo Electric Power Company at about 4 p.m. Friday Atlanta time. It said the water level necessary to cool the reactor fuel had been "maintained."

That wouldn't have been possible without backup power, Rahnema said. "If the water level in the reactor is maintained," he said, "that's good news."

Even if the reactor core were to melt down, Rahnema said it probably would not produce the dire consequences seen in Chernobyl. That plant had few of the safety features required in Japan. Even if the Fukushima reactor were to melt the central pressure vessel that contains it, he said, the radioactive fuel would still be held within a concrete containment, something he said was lacking in the Chernobyl design.

Still, if officials cannot get the plant online, they'll have to control the temperature of the nuclear fuels with standby power, possibly for months. The nuclear reaction will continue at least that long, Rahnema said.

The nuclear reactions "have a long half life, so they continue creating heat," he said. But the heat from the reaction drops significantly within a day after the reactor is shut down, to as little as 1 percent of the amount when it was at full power, he said. "It's easy to manage."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:34 PM

It is generally accepted that nuclear plants cannot explode through anything except planned detonation (i.e., an attack of some kind), and then it is not a nuclear explosion. A meltdown can release significant radiation, such as at Chernobyl, but probably only if the plant is as badly maintained as that one was. Most likely there would be no measurable release of radiation, which was the case at TMI. The "100% increase of radiation" reported by some media sources refers to radiation in the plant control room, which is normally a shirt-sleeves environment.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:36 PM

He os nearly as funny as Dr. Strangelove


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:36 PM

Well ..... I'm not taking any chances kids ... first thing in the morning I'm heading down to the City Market and stocking up on as much Grand Manaan dulse I can get my hands on !

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:38 PM

I believe that if the interior pressure builds to a high enough level, the containment could burst and release a lot more radiation than what escapes in the controlled venting process. Perhaps that's what was meant by "explosion".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:26 AM

After all, panic is so much more fun than looking at the problem soberly.

"Panic early and often" seems to be the motto for some prolific posters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:50 AM

So...you object to people looking calmly and soberly at a crisis in Lybia and not urging immediate drastic action!!!

And you recommend that people look calmly and soberly at a crisis in Japan...and not panic.

Why does no one here seem to measure up to your high expectations, Ron?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 02:02 AM

Jeri, both of your scenarios are possible. If a steam explosion breaks the pipes and containment vessel it would lead to meltdown which carries with it a small chance of a nuclear explosion. If it blows the top off the reactor we could pour Boron on the core as well as water. It would be fatal to all who did so but they could save Japan from a fission nightmare. A steam explosion would also hasten the loss of all water, which would require working pumps to add more immediately.

It feels creepy to be on a media black out over night. I am not getting any shortwave tonight.



Ron, So true.

I recall (among others) posting extensively on the looming economic disaster 4 years before it occured.
I recall posting with passionate panic on the corporate take over of the United States and the looming gilded age destroying what was left of the middle class.
I recall positing often regarding the Bush administration and the social economic folly of the Iraq war.
I posted early regarding bio warefare research efforts that could...Oops I guess I was wrong about that one.

If you think I am prolific for posting for a day or two every other week, thank you. Funny as it sounds that bi monthly schedule is the only time I am capable of contributing.
You are probably reffering to Amos, LH, Bobert,Raparree, Bill, Don Firth, Old dude, Odd dude, Ellie, Carol, Ron and a gentle hoard of others are the true prolific contributors.

Panic is not recommended no matter what the outcome of the 5 N plants which only have hours to be saved.

Will we learn of the heros who save the Earth from the first total critical explosion of hundreds of tons of Uranium?
Will they gain control in timeTune in again next week for the next episode of "Your Ass on a Plate"?...brought to you by big business and the fuck you lobby associates of Washington DC.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 04:45 AM

De we know if the lost coolant is sodium, as in many plants?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 04:54 AM

A bit late to discuss whether or not explosion is possible at all:

Footage of massive explosion at Fukushima 1


First reports indicate outside panelling has been blown off the reactor building.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 04:57 AM

Sodium is not used in "many" nuclear plants, only fast breeders. Japan doesn't have any of those.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:09 AM

We are officially 8 to 12 hours away from some form of a melt down event. [Donuel - 11 March 9.17PM Mudcat Time]

I've just been looking at the latest news clips from CNN and other sources - all of them reporting within the last hour or so.

There appears to be little or no change in the current state of the reactor. There has been some recording of a slight increase in radiation levels in the immediate vicinity of the plant. The reported explosion within the plant has not been linked to any direct nuclear-related fault, and scientists and engineers in the plant are working on the cooling system at the moment. People in the vicinity of the plant have been evacuated. Extra coolant is being brought to the country from the US.

It's a serious business - but one which is being tackled as efficiently and as properly as the Japanese can - and they have some very expert people in the nuclear industry.

Now - all of that may be short-sighted and over-optimistic. How am I to know? But it's equally short-sighted to post panic-riddled prophecies of doom when most of us are thousands of miles away from knowing the reality of the situation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:26 AM

"Extra coolant is being brought to the country from the US."

Water?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:30 AM

3 Mile Island

The Japan Syndrome.

Pull your foreskin over your head, and kiss your ass goodbye.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:39 AM

There is a red flash just visible at the instant of explosion.
Not just steam pressure.
If no sodium is present, water must have reacted with the fuel itself to release hydrogen.
That means radioactive escape.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 05:54 AM

Perhaps, not withstanding their prior experience of quite serious earthquakes , it was not such a brilliant idea for the Nipponese to construct nuclear -power plants close to a fault-line ?? Surely this is , and always has been, an accident -in-waiting ??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 08:46 AM

I mentioned a few years back (five or six) that imo nuclear power is usually ok. HOWEVER, of the approximate 450 plants in the world, more than half needed IMMEDIATE refurbishment. They haven't been getting the repairs they need. I got laughed and hissed off the 'cat for pointing that out. Today, allow me to point out that the number in dire need of repair is closer to 60%. I hope it's real funny now!

Sour grapes? Yer fuckin' right. And when the Japanese mess is sorted--as I pray for my children it will be--we'll forget about it and go along as we always have. Doing bugger all about it, sucking gas outta the ground and trading away our children's future for the toys: ATVs, SUVs, gas guzzlers, electric toothbrushes, hair dryers and damned near anything else that will make sure WE use it before our rotten kids get THEIR hands on it.

I think that if humanity wants to survive, we gotta find a new way to do business and live this life. The dirtiest bastards are those who play games with oil; the other dirtiest bastards are multi-nationals for their complete exploitation of people, and the other dirtiest bastards are those who make weapons of war. Learning one's lesson the hard way is NOT necessarily the best way to learn. So, assuming Japan is able to get the nuclear genie under control, what will WE do as people to help make a future for our kids that doesn't involve them having to take iodine pills and having to wear radiation suits to go play outside? At this juncture, it might be a good time to make a commitment and stand up to these bastards. But wait a minute, there's a show on and I just HATE to miss it. It's about these people stranded on and island and they might vote Josh off . . . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:46 AM

The Fuk U Shima nuclear plant is an old fashioned water reactor.

At the more southern plant one reactor has now EXPLODED in a huge steam and hydrogen explosion.
From a camera aboard a ship 2 miles away you can see the explosion send a shock wave of steeam and concrete over 500 feet into the air followed by the dusty debris and vapor. What pipes that delivered water and circulated water coolant are certainly destoryed in the explosion.

IT can not be helped by generraators now and is destined to continue to cascade to various forms of meltdown.

spraying sea water on the possibly blown open reactor will cause enviormental damage in a desperate trade off to prevent a critical mass explosion or a meltdown through the containment concrete floor.

If the containment building miraculously survided the immense steam explosion plain old seawater could be pumped by fire trucks into the core but the run off and exposure will certainly cause fatal exposure to any hero who volunteers for such duty.

The tally stands at one critical exploded reactor among 5 critical reactors.

(This Spockian philosophy has never applied to Wall St.)

The needs of the many outwieghs the needs of the few.
In all there is over 100 tons of highly enriched Uranium in those reactors!

What ever downplaying and soft soap pedeling that you may hear over the next week, know that this is a global poisoning event.




PS Huckabee has already begun to campaign on this issue saying that the United Sates should not spend a dime on Japan because of our looming debt.

To think he was a preacher, how sad.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:03 AM

It seems all the reactors were successfully shut down - i.e. the fuel is now intermixed with rods of neutron-absorbing material. They can't go critical (bomb-style explosion). What's generating the heat is decay of fission products.

IF everything can be kept under control for a day or two, things get a lot more manageable, as the decay energy of the fission products drops off quite quickly.

Still a godawful mess to deal with afterwards, probably about as expensive as Chernobyl. No chance that a private company would have the funds to fix the damage. Anybody know about TEPCO's ownership?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:04 AM

According to the most recent reports - which are subject to updating, of course - there has been no damage to the containment chamber at the Fukushima Daiichi plant; radiation levels are dropping and internal pressure is decreasing. The explosion, regardless of how devastating it seems to be from a distance, involved only exterior portions of the reactor complex and not the reactor itself.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:06 AM

"An explosion at a nuclear power station today destroyed a building housing the reactor amid fears that it could melt down after being hit by a powerful earthquake and tsunami.

Large amounts of radiation were spewing out and the evacuation area around the plant was expanded but officials did not know how dangerous the leak was to people. Shinji Kinjo, a spokesman for the Japanese nuclear agency, could not say how much radiation was in the atmosphere or how hot the reactor was following the failure of its cooling system.

Tokyo Power Electric Co., the utility that runs the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant, said four workers had suffered fractures and bruises and were being treated at a hospital. A NUCLEAR EXPERT SAID A MELTDOWN MAY NOT POSE WIDESPREAD DANGER" (emphasis added WHAT!!!).

This situation is not going to get better, as I feared yesterday.

The process in review:

The earthquake cut off conventional power to the nuclear plant with its four reactors.

Back-up generators kicked in as planned to power the coolant pumps.

Then the tsunami knocked out some of the back-up generators, leaving two of the reactors with no power except for batteries.

Hyrdogen gas began to build up within the containment area (which is why they were venting radioactive steam yesterday) and this morning there was most likely a hydrogen explosion which has blown apart one of the buildings.

What's not clear to me is whether the reactor vessel has been breached in this explosion, or whether that vessel is surrounded by an additional dome. In any case there seems no way to avert a meltdown of this reactor's fuel rods with further explosions, which could trigger further damage and explosions to the adjacent reactors.

This is not good and that's why further evacuations are taking place.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:08 AM

Politicians and preachers ..... forget fucking sad .... more like fucking angry.

as the song states ..

"Goddamn it!
Tryin' to make it real, compared to what"

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:10 AM

The Fukushima nuclear plant in Fukushima prefecture in northeastern Japan is pictured in a 2008 file photo. (Xinhua/Kyodo file photo)
TOKYO, March 12 (Xinhua) -- The Japanese government confirmed Saturday that while an explosion did occur at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant earlier in the day, the blast did not happen at the location of its No. 1 reactor.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at an emergency press conference convened in Tokyo that owner and operator of the nuclear facility, Tokyo Electric Power Co., has confirmed that the steel container housing the reactor is intact.

Edano said that the blast, which occurred at 3:36 p.m. local time (0636 GMT), destroyed the roof and the walls of the reactor's outer container.

Authorities added that whilst the evacuation zone has been increased from a 10-kilometer radius for the Fukushima No. 1 and the troubled No. 2 plants to a 20-kilometer radius, no serious damage occurred to the container of the No. 1 reactor, as previously feared.

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency had said earlier that the reactor in the Fukushima No. 1 power station, located about 220 km north of Tokyo, may be starting to melt down after Japan's biggest earthquake on record hit the area Friday.

Recent reports, however, suggest the catastrophe may not be quite as deadly as previously thought.

Eye witnesses accounts and TV footage in Saturday afternoon showed smoke billowing from the site and reported that the reactor building had been destroyed, leading many to believe a partial core meltdown had occurred.

Four people have been injured at the power plant, authorities said, but radiation levels dropped quickly after surging, following the blast according to official accounts.

Prefectural officials in the area announced that the hourly radiation from the troubled plant reached 1,015 micro sievert in the vicinity prior to the explosion and that the radiation approximates an ordinary amount for an adult to be exposed to in one year.

The reports of the explosion followed aftershocks and came amid a mammoth search and rescue mission launched in the northeastern region of Japan involving both Japanese and U.S. military forces.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency confirmed that measures taken to release the potentially devastating build up of pressure had worked, essentially averting a nuclear meltdown and that radiation amount will pose no imminent health issues for nearby residents.

The agency also said that the wind currently blowing toward the sea rather than inland in the region is a helpful factor.

Government officials said that in the wake of Friday's colossal earthquake and tsunami that struck the northeastern region of Japan, 1,700 people are feared missing or dead.

Editor: Fang Yang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:16 AM

The rods are indeed capable of melting the metal sheaths around each rod of Uranium becasue of the way it was shut down. Critical mass could only occur when the exposed fuel then melts and compresses on the floor of the reactor.

A scram shutdown with no coolant circulation can contain enough residual heat to damage the "protective blankets" around the Uranium.

WHile you are technically and perfectly correct Jack, the truth is there remains a possibility of melted fuel that could proceed to criticality..

If you want a number I would put it at 10% or less.

A meltdown would still last indefininately. Far longer than a Gulf oil spill.

Neither alternative is anything less than catastrophic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:22 AM

Not good news!

"Japan's government spokesman says the metal container sheltering a nuclear reactor was not affected by an explosion that destroyed the building it's in."

I'm unsure what this statement means beyond an attempt to reassure the public. The fuel rods are within a containment vessel and here in the States our nuclear plants have what's called a containment dome, a final barrier of defense if there were a meltdown (and no one really knows if it would work or not in that event). It's unclear to me if there is a secondary containment dome for this reactor in Japan or whether that was supposed to be the building whose walls have just been blown out.

But in either event no cooling system (pipes, pumps, valves) would have survived that explosion and it's just a matter of hours before there is a complete meltdown.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 10:31 AM

Spreading fear when you have no facts is NOT a nice thing. What are your sources for all this stuff if I may ask.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:24 AM

999-

Why don't you view the BBC video again yourself and do some research before you accuse others of "spreading fear"? You should be ashamed of yourself. This is a human tragedy which will likely rival the impact of what happened in the Ukraine with the Chernobyl meltdown and explosion.

My own education and experience comes from working as staff for an anti-nuclear power organization in Maine for over ten years, from 1982 to 1992. One learns a lot about the risks involved with generating electricity from "clean" nuclear power from such experience.

I don't think I am exaggerating the dire risks facing the Japanese people at this time. I wish I were.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM

I am simply asking where the facts are coming from, Charley. I am certainly NOT making light of the situation facing the Japanese people. I am asking where your facts are from. It is YOU who should be ashamed of yourself. You ARE spreading fear--and if rightfully so I will apologize to you. I won`t expect an apology from you if it is otherwise.

Bruce Murdoch


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM

Latest reports suggest that, for now at least, a major meltdown looks like being avoided at a nuclear power plant in northeast Japan that was badly damaged by the massive earthquake that struck yesterday afternoon.

Getting clear information on the situation is difficult – one US news station, for example, suggested in one segment there had been about 80 aftershocks since yesterday's main temblor, but in a graphic a couple of minutes later said it was about 180. (The former seems much more likely, although the aftershocks, some of which have topped magnitude 6, have been so regular it's hard to keep track).

According to a Reuters report, radiation is leaking from a plant in Fukushima after a large explosion earlier this afternoon apparently blew off the roof. The evacuation radius was increased from an initial 10 kilometre radius to 20 kilometres, and officials are said to be distributing iodine to locals to help protect them from radiation exposure.

But despite initial speculation among some news stations determined to press analysts and correspondents to discuss 'the worst case scenario,' experts contacted by Reuters said Japan shouldn't see a repeat of the Chernobyl disaster in Russia.

'They said pictures of mist above the plant suggested only small amounts of radiation had been expelled as part of measures to ensure its stability, far from the radioactive clouds Chernobyl spewed out 25 years ago,' Reuters reported. 'Valeriy Hlyhalo, deputy director of the Chernobyl nuclear safety centre, was quoted by Interfax news agency as saying Japanese reactors were better protected than Chernobyl.'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:36 AM

Fuel rods at the reactor may be melting after radioactive Cesium material left by atomic fission was detected near the site, Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency spokesman Yuji Kakizaki said by phone earlier today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-12/explosion-destroys-walls-of-japan-reactor-building-nhk-reports.html

I read a report that said the temp in the control room was 100C but I can't find it now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:44 AM

Note that it is the detection of Cesium that is key.

The fact they are going to try using sea water MAY indicate that the cooling systems MAY be damaged to SOME extent... or NOT. Of course, it's all conjecture.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM

Basically I don't believe anything (bad or good)that I'm reading .... in time the truth will be known ... all we can do ... at this point in time is hope.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:51 AM

Bruce-

Thanks for the name. No one will be more delighted to offer profuse apologies if I am overstating the case.

Try reviewing this update via Wikipedia. It's the best background info I've been able to find but still very alarming to anyone who has a clue how these plants are supposed to function:
click here for update!

And I should caution that Wikipedia is only as good a "source" as whoever happens to be posting but there is a lot more detail revealed here than from the regular news reports.

The reactor building which was demolished in the explosion does not have a secondary containment system. It is an older "boiling water" reactor designed by General Electric, similar to the Vermont Yankee reactor. It was scheduled to be permanently shut down later this month.

There are six reactors on site at this nuclear plant. Three were shut down before the earthquake for regularly scheduled maintenance and thus were not available to provide back-up power after the tsunami.

The next phase of trying to cool the reactor vessel appears to be pumping sea water in, augmented with boric acid to inhibit further nuclear reaction. This is a desperate measure but is probably the best option left at this point in an attempt to avert a complete meltdown.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:57 AM

As long as large aftershocks continue this situation can't be considered "under control". One aftershock too many and the damage will be the straw that broke...
For now we watch and pray.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: number 6
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:59 AM

exactly Sinsull .... watch, hope and pray for the best.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 12:05 PM

sIx... you can stay at my place if LePreau lights up... I'll put the key under a rock behind the garage before I leave. Of course, it is a CANDU so I don't think there's much chance of that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: josepp
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 12:07 PM

////Of the dizens if nuclear plants in Japan, currently the oldest one bulit in 1960 and finished in 1970 is in the most serious condition of being unable to cool the fuel rods which are now venting radiactive steam.////

Maybe plant designs have changed since I worked in them, but I never heard of fuel rods and they can't vent steam. The fuel comes in very thin plates and "very pure water", called a moderator, is pumped around them. The rods are made usually of hafnium and actually absorb neutrons which has the effect of squelching fission reactions. A total insertion of all the rods at once is called a scram and that shuts the reactor down. Now I do know of plants that actually used water in place of the rods and it is possible those might flash to steam but they are not fuel either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: josepp
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 12:14 PM

It is also impossible for a nuke plant to cause a nuclear explosion. They are not set up like a nuclear bomb. An exploding nuke plant would be more like a dirty bomb not an A-bomb. Let's not spread unfounded rumors.

Japan will weather this out as they always do. There will be a massive clean up obviously. This will not be another Chernobyl. Japanese plants are built a tiny bit safer than that. But it is not possible for there to be a "bomb event." Stop causing needless alarm please.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Bettynh
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 12:24 PM

Some already need decontamination.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: josepp
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 12:37 PM

The above article makes no distinction between radiation and radioactivity--they are NOT the same thing.

Radioactivity is caused by the emission of alpha particles. If you're exposed to radioactivity then you need decon immediately. Radiation is caused by the emission of gamma rays. If you are hit with radiation, decon won't do any good.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 19 January 1:57 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.