BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 12:09 PM

More clear this time... the reactor itself is not damaged... but you can see the exterior of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:10 PM

Jack-

"That depends not just on WHAT has been emitted but also on HOW MUCH of it there is."

I entirely agree but I am far more pessimistic than you, perhaps, about what they will eventually be reporting.

Damage assessment of the reactor building via video can detect the most obvious damage, but not cracks in the primary containment or within the spent fuel pools that are still shielded from view.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:15 PM

Would they be shielded from view from an areal ? photo or are they covered? Are there not drones being sent up with cameras? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:19 PM

Aerial video is available. NHK has had some.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:20 PM

Advocating nuclear energy is a form of contemporary insanity. There is only one real solution to the problem of energy, research and development on alternative non-destructive methods, solar, wind, and science that helps rather than destroys mankind.

Also, cutting down on the use of energy rather than cutting into budgets and crying poor when it comes to a meaningless "deficit".

Earthquakes and tsunamis, New Zealand, Banda Ace, Haiti, and now Japan should be a marker for the global warming deniers. The water table rises, the earth shakes and
there are those who advocate for new nuclear plants especially on fault lines?
Crazy, crazy and more crazy. Obama now included.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:25 PM

Earthquakes and tsunamis, New Zealand, Banda Ace, Haiti, and now Japan should be a marker for the global warming deniers

Linking earthquakes to global warming is a few steps beyond credibility I am afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM

From Japan Times-
Three experts, from Northwestern Univ.(3), Franciscan Univ.(2), and Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency(1), say it is too early to consider burying the reactors.
(1) Not a realistic option at this time. In the future, after the radiation has cooled, as part of long term strategy.
(2) Structures that confine the radioactivity could be damaged by dumping of sand and other matterials. Such sand dumps were part of the containment at Chernobyl. Fukushima is different, the reactors are surrounded by multiple barriers designed to contain radiation from the reactor cores. If a heavy dumping cracked the inner vessels and exposed the reactor cores, "that would be absurdity." Dr. Alex Sich, nuclear engineer, is an expert on Chernobyl.
(3) Other risks focus on the spent fuel rods. While pouring tons of sand on the rods would block radiation from escaping, it wouls also insulate them and make them heat up faster. The heat could decompose the concrete floor, allowing the rods to fall through, which could complicate efforts to contain the radiation, said Elmer Lewis of Northwestern (he has consulted on reactor issues with U. S. National Labs.
(2) Spraying of dust-supressing materials that was done at Chernobyl is recommended by Sich. This in combination with sprayers to tamp down the dust.
(3)Lewis said the time to entomb the reactors with concrete might come when the radioactive materials have cooled.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:54 PM

The comtaminated milk and spinach were found near the Fukushima plant. The levels not inmmediately pose a risk to human health.--

Limits and guidelines have been set by U. S., Japanese, and other agencies. We do not know what long-term exposure to low levels does- too few incidents on which to base data (as if we would want more).

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 02:00 PM

Thanks for that Q. Good quotes.

Peter... don't discard the global warming/earthquake hypothesis out of hand. Although it seems likely that global warming would have an insignificant influence the fact remains that it is possible.

Raise the ocean level a mm and cause an earthquake??? Not likely. But it's the final straw that breaks the camel's back. No?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 02:20 PM

No. Movement of tectonic plates is the cause of disastrous earth movements. These operate regardless of human activity.
Avoid by living on the Canadian shield or similar relatively stabile part of the globe. Of course the Canadian choice goes along with higher probability of freezing to death in our dark and drear winters.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:13 PM

NHK... one of the guys that went in today on the "spray team" was just on video... he said that they were able to direct the spray in the right spot and radiation levels went to zero.

I will watch it again as these broadcasts cycle frequently but that is what I heard the translator say.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 08:03 PM

Critics of the Fukishima complex pointed out two possible design flaws, and Nishiyama of the nuclear safety committee agreed.
1. Provision for strong earthquake but no provision for tsunami waves. This possibility was considered and provisions made at some other reactor complexes.
(See previous post. At Daini complex, provision was made. The tsunami wave was a little higher, but wet conditions easily corrected).
2. Emergency power generators not placed inside the building complex, and were damaged as a result- apparently they were inside at some other reactor complexes.

Hard to keep one eye on Japan, one on Libya and a third eye on the NCAA basketball tournament. Some good games!

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 08:34 PM

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79704.html

From Japan.

Something else I don't get. They just spent 13 hours or so successfully spraying water on one of the reactors..by Tokyo Fire Department.

They are "shortly" going to be spraying water on another one by the Ministry of Defense or something...Can't they spray water on two reactors at once? It is a shortage of water? Sea is very close by..

Why two agencies?

and yes it is my business..it is everyone's business how this is handled..I am being subtly radiated as we speak and I am hopeful and even confident that it now seems to be under control and even worst case scenario would not bombard me too much..but there are economic impacts, fishery considerations, tourism, agriculture..it is all serious so yes it is our business. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: J-boy
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 10:53 PM

Some real March Madness indeed, Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:57 AM

There was an explosion at #1 just after the earthquake? I missed that. How did I miss that?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 01:45 PM

Japanese as a whole are a calm, reticent people. Their seemingly low-key comments on the on-going problems at the Fukushima complex is an example. Tepco and the government have been slow in providing information on the results of their corrective measures and there has been little censure from the Japanese press and public.

Included is the lack of sky is falling reaction to the tsunami's destruction. Providing shelter, rebuilding infrastructure to get supplies distributed, a start on building temporary housing, acceptance of rolling blackouts to save energy and other examples of their effective response are not loudly trumpeted.

We in North America are much more prone to knee-jerk reaction.

mg, firetrucks.
Realizing that the volunteer response by fire crews was causing possible life-shortening effects, they devised a relay system. Seawater is pumped to a relay 'truck', from which a hose is extended to the actual pumper. This removes the operator to a place outside the danger of strong radiation effects. More will be set up as needed. A diagram appeared in the Japan Times.
Except for the first day, when conditions were extremely uncertain, and workers were exposed, care has been taken to prevent serious exposure to radioactive materials.

The reticence to communicate does make it very difficult for anyone not involved in the corrective measures to evaluate what is being done and to be informed on the possible dangers if the corrective measures are inadequate.

I think all of us would like more information than we are getting.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 02:53 PM

"We in North America are much more prone to knee-jerk reaction."

Well, if just one Lt. Military Engineer from the US Navy had been put ashore early on you can bet your bottom dollar that the electrical feed to the control room would have been in place before the 1.5km of power feed made it to #2 yesterday. I don't think they are "knee-jerk" enough. (Sorry to interpret/twist your words in such manner but it just seemed to fit.)

For those who may say that's 20/20 hindsight I say nay nay big time. This simple logistic fuckup is inane.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 03:13 PM

gnu- that is nonsense.
Directing flow through high power cables (which came from inland plants to the SW of Tokyo) through areas damaged by earthquake and tsunami took crews and heavy equipment several days- as it would if similar conditions obtained in the U. S. or Canada.

Power grids service large areas and needs of all must be considered.
Eastern Canada is connected to the American grid. See map of U. S. grid with connections to Canada-
http://www.npr.org/templates/story.php?storyId=110997398

A power grid map of Japan is also on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 03:23 PM

Japan's power grid and discussion of problems as a result of the earthquake-tsunami-

http://www.ikimap.com/map/04YF

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 03:33 PM

Well, if just one Lt. Military Engineer from the US Navy had been put ashore early on you can bet your bottom dollar that the electrical feed to the control room would have been in place before the 1.5km of power feed made it to #2 yesterday. I don't think they are "knee-jerk" enough.

Well, as it stands, the US Navy pulled back it's fleet at the first sign of radiation and we all remember Katrina when it comes to response to natural disasters so a bit of perspective would be in order here.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 04:33 PM

Q... "gnu- that is nonsense."

Nonsense? They could not get a feed to the control room in place and ready to connect to the new power feed before the new power feed was in place? THAT is nonsense. Why would you sit around with yer thumb up yer arse while the 1.5km feed was being put in place? It makes NO sense whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM

gnu, obviously you are unfamiliar with the scale of high voltage electrical grids and time needed for their repair. Because of quake damage, high voltage power cables were reconstructed from many kilometers distant from Fukushima. Heavy equipment and many electrical grid workers were involved over several days.
Pumps, relays, lines cannot be checked out until power is available and only when radioactivity is within safe limits. Connections must be tried one at a time carefully or subsidiary lines and/or equipment could be fried. That is why they started with lights and worked out (probably through checklist) connections one at a time.
Radioactivity danger to employees and resulting short working time limits complicates the re-installation.

U. S. Navy ships had backed off long before problems were diagnosed. In any case, there is no port at Fukushima reactor complex, and they would have to run waterproof cable through water, distance depending on offshore slope, to safe water depth.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 09:05 PM

Not much hard info that I've been able to harvest today. Maybe that's good news or maybe everyone took the weekend off.

The Union of Concerned Scientists took the time to put on their website a comparison between "spent fuel pools" and "dry cask storage" for dealing with what to do with spent nuclear fuel removed from the reactor core. In summary, both storage methods are needed but there needs to be more emphasis on transferring spent fuel from the pools after it has cooled down enough in 5 or so years to dry cask storage which is far safer. Ultimately it would be best to transfer spent fuel rods to a central repository at a national level but that solution has been subject to delays for decades.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 07:41 AM

What's happening at the spent fuel pool in Unit 3 at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex is still worrisome: click here for update!

This update provides some of the best photos I've seen of the complex.

Power has been reconnected here but not switched back on (or at Unit 4) and since steam was observed coming from the spent fuel area, there was another evacuation of workers.

This is also the reactor which has plutonium mixed with uranium as a nuclear fuel:

"Japan's nuclear safety agency said pressure was rising in the most threatening reactor, No. 3, which contains highly toxic plutonium, and this may have to be released by 'venting' steam, a step taken last week that discharged low levels of radiation into the atmosphere."      

Another report I heard on the news late last night puzzled me, which stated that workers were "boring holes" in the Unit 5 and Unit 6 reactors to vent hydrogen. I thought these units were in "cold shutdown" and now had power fully restored. Anyone else see this report, or find a reference to it?

The spent fuel pool at Unit 4 also remains a continuing concern.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM

Some real concerns about contaminated food some of which may have actually been shipped to China or the US. Meantime 500,000 people are homeless. The evacuation area continues to increase.
Sad but true, the one good thing on Japan's horizon is the increase in construction which will provide employment as well as manufacturing jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:47 AM

Q... all I said was that they could have run a cable from the control centre main panel to the point of connection and had it ready for use when they completed the 1.5km feed rather than waiting until after the feed was in place.

As for perhaps not knowing if the exising control centre primary supply circuit was u/s until the 1.5km feed was in place, someone should have checked the continuity long before that.

Of course, I never did mess much with electricity... it's too sneaky... ya can't see it! Oh, when I was a lad, I used to drag my feet over the carpet and touch my brother's ear lobe. Same with rubbing a baloon on my hair... not much chance of that now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:55 AM

NHK... Last two (3,4) to have power connections Tuesday. 2 emmitted steam from a crack in the roof, then smoke for two hours. Spraying was stopped. Spraying operation for today was cancelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:57 AM

Ooops! 2 emmitted steam from a crack in the roof, then smoke from 3 for two hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM

The smoke at reactor 3 caused workers to evacuate. At 5pm it had decreased and Tepco engineers were trying to determine the cause. Temperature and pressure remained the same.

Japan Times says the focus of on-site work is to restart the separate cooling systems at each reactor to keep cores and spent rod pools from melting down.
Checking of electrical system at No. 2, the first to be reconnected to the power center from new cables, continued. Power to monitoring system and air conditioning may be completed Monday.
Prime Minister Naoto Kan said progress was slow but teady. "Now we see some hope of getting out of this crisis situation."

Two tanks arrived, tasked with clearing contaminated debris blocking access to key installations.
Smoke from No. 2- No comments yet on cause.

Digression- Economists say reconstruction in Japan estimated at $235 billion and a 5-year effort. Buffet is strong on investing in Japan.
Reconnecting and rebuilding of power grids may end rolling blackouts on Tuesday.
Car and some other plants are re-starting production as power and other needs are met.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 01:06 PM

Here's an excerpt from the Union of Concerned Scientists daily briefing (I urge everyone interested to review each transcript) which emphasizes their continuing concerns:

"The IEA and others have reported that Units 1, 2, and 3 have had their cores at least or approximately half uncovered, and this has probably been the case since shortly after the initiation of the accident. So, it's been at least several days that at least 50 percent or the upper half of these cores have been uncovered. Now, that's a longer period of time for the situation than the core at Three Mile Island experienced, and the upper parts of the cores may have experienced significant damage. What may have happened is a swelling of the fuel rods that could cause a potential -- reduce the ability of coolant to actually get between those rods if the core is reflooded. So, the situation may not be -- these cores may not be as easily cooled as they would have been if they were undamaged.

Another issue that may have come up is the embrittlement of the zirconium cladding. When the zirconium becomes uncovered, after it expands and balloons, it can become oxidized and eventually becomes embrittled. If the core is then reflooded with water, that could cause cracking of the zirconium and release of fuel particles in what's called the debris bed. This was seen at Three Mile Island. The debris could then sink to the bottom of the reactor vessel, where it might then begin an attack on the steel of the reactor vessel. Also, it makes the configuration of the core, again, harder to cool.

One should also note that if part of the core fuses into a single mass, that it is, again, harder to cool the entire mass, and even if you get coolant on the outside of this mass, the central line may continue to heat up and eventually liquefy at the center and then drip down, again, to the bottom of the vessel. So, the fact that the cores have experienced some damage raises questions about the efficacy, even if the cooling is restored and they're reflooded."

They haven't posted the transcript of today's briefing but it should be available later today.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM

The IEA statement raises questions for me. But there is no sense posting those questions because there are at least 6 scenarios with a number of variants, all conjecture at this point, among at least 4 of the reactor buildings.

Truely horrific for people of Japan... and as has been stated many times, perhaps far more reaching than Japan depending on how these scenarios play out.

As SINS has said, the front line people are selfless heroes. I was moved to tears today watching NHK TV interview some of those people. One man said he is risking his life to save his children and all the children of Japan. If that don't tear ya up....

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:50 PM

At the very least this has shaken relations I would think with their neighbors, putting Chinese, Koreans etc. at risk..if not from air from their fisheries, if it comes to that, as who is to say it could not..will affect fisheries here as well if there is even the thought of radioactive fish. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:44 PM

No serious radioactivity affecting anyone outside of the immediate vicinity of the Fukushima complex yet.

Were east coast fish stocks affected by Three Mile Island? Or Mediterranean fish by Chernobyl*? It pays to keep speculations within context.
*(Fish in lakes near Chernobyl may have measureable radioactive caesium, but dilution in oceans or large seas would render the amount immeasurable).

One gets as much radioactive bang from one CT Scan as from a year's exposure near the Fukushima complex at present rates.
Comparable rates- A whole body scan exposes one to 720 mSv/ hour and the highest measured at Fukushima complex was 420 mSv.
Dr. Jeffrey R. Toney, reported in http://scienceblogs.com/deanscorner/2011/03/fukushima_radiation_levels_or.php

(Radioactive iodine has a half life of 8 days but the caesium is much longer (forgotten, but in press items recently)). I think Charlie could fill this in.

If the Fukushima complex can be stabilized in the next couple of weeks, no sky is falling scenario need be invoked.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:03 PM

Q-

Radioactive cesium has a half-life of 30 years, which doesn't mean that it's harmless after 30 years but that half its radioactivity has dissipated.

"If the Fukushima complex can be stabilized in the next couple of weeks, no sky is falling scenario need be invoked."

That seems a big "IF" to me given what has already happened at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex:

Three reactors are partially melted down
Three reactor buildings have their upper sections and roofs badly damaged
Four spent fuel pools are most likely low on coolant and are still boiling away.

The best case scenario will be stabilization known as "cold shutdown."

However, the clean-up costs will be billions of dollars and, if Three Mile Island can be used as a guide, more than ten years to accomplish.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:24 PM

We do not need to be overly concerned about present rates, it is clear. We do not know what future rates will be, if there is a worst-case scenario, and these rates are going to be cumulative. And part of the problem is with perception..we just do not know what will happen or what the long-term effects will be.

We know a couple of things...there is no truth beyond what can be forced out of them. There is some sort of ingrained paralysis, and the head honchos seem incapable of getting the next situation prepared for even as they deal with the present one. Why have they waited until now to order spare parts and new generators? Would that not have been among the first things they did? They need outside expertise it is obvious. They need to be told in no uncertain terms the world does not trust their honesty or their mechanical comprehension or geological information if they could not figure out a big tsunami was coming, as every school child on west coast of US knows.

One good thing to come from this, as came from the banking fiasco, is that the wizard of oz has to come out in the open and defend his or her behavior. And there is not just incompetence that will be exposed but layer upon layer of corruption. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM

I disagree. Watch NHK Japan and you may feel differently.

Just sayin.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 07:26 PM

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

I downloaded IE 9 and it doesn't like the link maker so there will be fewer blue clickies from me in the near future.

BTW... don't download IE 9... it'll crawl up yer system and plug it up. And ya can't get rid of it even though they say you can unistall the update. Took me three hours to get my system running again and I still have the piece of shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:00 PM

Digression-
South Korea, mentioned above, is one of the larger players in nuclear technology. It recently sold 4 of its reactors in the United Arab Emirates for $20 billion. In South Korea, 21 reactors provide 40% of the electrical power, by 2030, 60% of the power supply is projected to be nuclear.

China has 13 reactors, with 25 under construction and many more in planning stages. Those under construction are "the World's most advanced."
Articles in www.world-nuclear.org

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:45 PM

Q-

I love your digressions.

So the fact that more new reactors are being brought on line around the world, is that worrisome? Or is it just a fact of life?

Actually, I'm convinced that the next generation of nuclear reactors will be safer and more efficient but why development them when if we wait another ten years there will be an even safer and more efficient model?

The problem with all nuclear power plants is that if they go bad, it's very bad.

Moreover, even without a major accident, all models of nuclear reactors in use today leave us with the problem of storing high level nuclear waste for ten thousand years or more. Yes, there's the option of reprocessing spent fuel rods but that process is also risky while inevitably producing even more radioactive waste.

The only safe place to generate nuclear energy appears to be the sun, and even that's not reliable in the long run.

Let's go back to whale oil before it's too late!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 12:56 AM

A typical meeting in which an engineer is educated to the way things are by the money men representative...

We are all proud to bring on line El Gordo Grane plant built with taxpayer money and only 400 billion dollars over budget. THis is the safest plant built in the last 30 years.
The nuclear power plant located in the volcanic crater of El Gordo Grande is built to withstand a 1 in 10,000 years possibility of an eruption.

"But sir isn't the half life of the nuclear fuel many times 10,000 years, if the...?"

You are looking at the mathmatical nuke accident impossibility model all wrong. You see 10,000 years from now the risk is still 1 in 10,000 and we get another free 10,000 extension.

"I don't think so sir, I think that 3 mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima are all 1 in 10,000 year events and they are all blowing up an average of every 15 years."

Ah ha thats where you are wrong. You forgot to divide them by the kilowatt hours sold by every nuke plant in the world multiplied by all the man hours worked and raise that to the exponentially higher utility bills generated over the lifetime of the average nuclear plant that stays in operation 50 years beyond its design... and then run them all at 120% power instead of 70% ...by this formula a nuclear accident is only possible once in 3l6 million years!

"Then what do you call the FUkushima disaster?!"

A blip.

"Who is going to believe that?!

Don't be silly, the only people we need to fool are the survivors.
You are a survivor Harvey, aren't you ???

"yes sir"

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 02:06 AM

Do you think that more radiation leaked from the nuclear plants, than was blown into the air from Hiroshima and Nagasaki?..and that drifted to the Left Coast?..and which was 'dirtier'?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 06:44 AM

The Canadian Press

Date: Monday Mar. 21, 2011 9:48 PM ET

VANCOUVER — Health Canada monitoring stations have detected a "minuscule" increase in radiation levels along the B.C. coast in the wake of the nuclear crisis in Japan but some residents weren't taking their chances.

Health spokesman Gary Holub said increased radiation levels were expected, and less than the increase in radiation levels Canadians would see naturally when it rains.

He stressed the increase posed no health risk to Canadians.

The agency installed nine additional monitoring stations along the West Coast late last week, as public concerns persisted about possible radioactive drift from Japan making it thousands of kilometres across the Pacific Ocean to North America.

Canadian health officials are reassuring the public there's no need to fear fallout from the Japan, but some residents of B.C. remain nervous.

A number of military surplus stores around Vancouver said they fielded an average of 30 to 40 calls a day from alarmed citizens asking for geiger counters to measure radioactivity, "baby gas masks," potassium iodide supplements and suits to protect them from hazardous materials.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:07 AM

999... but they'll still injest leafy greens in Lotus Land. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:20 AM

GfS-

"Do you think that more radiation leaked from the nuclear plants, than was blown into the air from Hiroshima and Nagasaki?..and that drifted to the Left Coast?..and which was 'dirtier'?"

There was considerably more worldwide fall out from the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and some different radioactive products such as Strontium-90, than say from the Chernobyl meltdown, explosion and resultant fire. The current event in Japan is incomplete.

I'm not sure what "dirtier" means in this context other than bad news for those downwind.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:21 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42206728/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

Clarifies things a bit with a simple graph.

The reports of radiation contamination in the sea near the plant is causing concern. Seafood is to be tested. Whether or not the readings are dangerous, consumers will avoid Japanese seafood.

Re: the plants. Will any of them be usable after all the seawater that has been pumped into them? I thought the corrosive effects would be permanent? Anyone know?
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:27 AM

The Japanese now estimate that the clean-up costs will be about $45 billion, most of which is covered by insurance. It's unclear if that estimate includes the construction of replacement reactors or alternative power plants.

Still no explanation from the Japanese of the steam seen yesterday from Units 2 and 3 at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex, which triggered a temporary evacuation.

I'm also not sure what the operational status is of Units 5 and 6 at this complex, whether they were also cooled by salt water which would render them useful for further operation. They are now reported in "cold shutdown" but there was also a period when temperatures were becoming elevated in their spent fuel pools.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 10:23 AM

The amount of misinformation/lies and spin/conditional lies
is thick fast and furios by the nuclear industry, NRC, astroturf nuke advocates and governments.

Spin such as;
in a couple months the only radioactive products released will be that of Iodine 131.

It appears the spent fuel rods are not respondsible for radiation release but rather it was the sealed reactors that were vented for safety.



I have heard dozens of lies this week.

Remember they only have to fool the survivors.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 11:27 AM

"499"

Someone else can harvest the glory of "500."

Be my guest.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: reggie miles
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 11:37 AM

So, how long before we all start glowing in the dark and sprouting new limbs as a result of this fine example of modern technology?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: reggie miles
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 11:39 AM

Give it to me straight doc. I can take it.