BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!

Subject: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:00 PM

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

(Note this did not come from a US source, nor The Onion.)

Military's 'sock puppet' software creates fake online identities to spread pro-American propaganda.

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am now one of those who believe in banning non-member postings in BS here at Mudcat.

Too much trouble to administer?

The logic is very simple...

IF Member
    THEN Post
    ELSE IF Thread in Permitted_BS_List
         Permit_Post
    ELSE Reject_Post

{Permitted_BS_List : These threads are the 'Secret Santa' threads. There are several possible logical ways to permit them}

Robin

PS Please note carefully what the objections are and who they come from! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:10 PM

Mudcat's openness to lyric requests and discussions of the Digital Tradition lyrics database is:

A) a hugely significant public service to the worldwide web community

and

B) the main attraction that led many of us to find this site in the first place, and subsequently join up.

If any part of this forum were to be made inaccessible to non-members, the "BS" section would be my choice. We have enough crackpots among ourselves without letting strangers add to the chaos. But the music section needs to remain open to the universe.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:24 PM

OK

IF Member
    THEN Post
    ELSE IF Thread in Permitted_BS_List
         Permit_Post
    ELSE Reject_Post

{Permitted_BS_List : These threads are the 'Secret Santa' threads. There are several possible logical ways to permit them}

becomes logically then

IF NOT Member
    THEN IF Thread in Permitted_List
             Permit_Post
       ELSE Reject_Post

{Permitted_List : These threads are the 'Secret Santa' and NON-BS threads. There are STILL several possible logical ways to permit them by logically reformatting the flow}

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM

QUOTE
crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.
UNQUOTE

This is not new to the BS threads ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:31 PM

I'm a bit worried and confused. Am I not welcome here? If so, I shall of course stop posting, but I've enjoyed exchanging ideas and opinions, memories and comments. I hope that I haven't offended or irritated anybody, I have tried always to be courteous and moderate. I don't feel that I want to join, just post occasionally and follow the interesting threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:38 PM

You have never offended anyone on Mudcat, Eliza. Don't let it bother you.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:39 PM

ANYBODY can join Mudcat should they so desire, so WTF is it all about Robin?
Also, in this age of large ISP's resulting in non fixed IP addresses, it is impossible to ban unwanted posters by use of their IP address.
So how would you suggest Mudcat indulges your paranoia?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:40 PM

It (members only) is not likely to ever happen either.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:40 PM

Duh If you take a tour of several humdred liberatian rt wing social sites and then look at Democratic Underground and liberal sites you will see cross over snipers double agents and trolls extroidinare.

You will at the end of this experiment be convinced that the United States will produce a leader like Gadafi if the Tea party should have their dreams answered.



btw today Dumbledore Ghadafi said that he will bomb Libyan cities, monuments and civivilians if foreigners try to bomb Libya.

wow somehow it reminds me of the Sheriff in Blazing Saddles taking himself hostage.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:41 PM

Phew! Thank you, big relief!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:43 PM

And, I doubt if Max will change his policy on free speech nor his policy of it's abuse. Worked pretty good so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:44 PM

999... pm

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:48 PM

BS openness permits some who refuse to give their names to any net source to post. Current policy seems to work.

Who knows, some who do sign up and give their names could be MI5 propagandists or - even Kiribatians!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:49 PM

"ban unwanted posters by use of their IP address. "

Never said that - READ my content about 'Member' PLEASE... sigh....

I have decided that Mudcat is becoming a Troll P.O.R.N. site (Post Only, Read Never) .... :-)

Boom! Boom! ....


Sigh ...

IF NOT Member
    THEN IF Thread in Permitted_List
             Permit_Post
       ELSE Reject_Post

no mention of IP address...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:53 PM

Boom Boom?

Clank Clank

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

Sigh away mate, you're still talking shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

Once people know the program is there, it will have counter effects, ie people in online discussions will accuse others of being one of the controlled accounts every time point of view deviates to particular POVs....

As if THIS hasn't happened here before ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

GUEST,John MacKenzie "Sigh away mate, you're still talking shite. "

Ahah!

That's the tactics! See! In use already! Put down those expressing points of views hostile to the 'approved view' .... yada yada ...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 05:08 PM

C                   MOVE   *BLANK   $BLOCK    1
   C                   MOVE   *BLANK   $ACCEPT   1
   C       MEMBER      IFNE   MUDMEM
   C                   MOVE   '1'      $BLOCK
   C                   EXCPT &BLOCKD
   C                   ELSE
   C                   MOVE   '1'      $ACCEPT
   C                   EXCPT &ACCEPT
   C                   ENDIF   


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 05:12 PM

Never mind about Guests! What about fully-fledged members here who are in reality mere CIA sock puppets or who have been co-opted and are secretly on the payroll of both government and private industry to make posts that:

1. spread vile $ySStem propaganda

2. promote rank specist stereotypes, such as calling an ape a "monkey" or talking about "poopflinging"

3. slander talented individuals like William Shatner

4. criticize Dacshunds, and assert that Weimaraners are better

5. make endless excuses for Barack Obama's lack of effectiveness in office

6. keep bringing up that unfortunate shoplifting incident, instead of recognizing all the good stuff that Winona Ryder has done in film...

These reprehensible agents provocateurs are not Guests! They're members! They need to be ferreted out and driven from our midst. I suggest we form a Vigilance Committee and expose their heinous activities for all to see...then force them to recant or be defenestrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 05:27 PM

Ban all Canadians.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 05:32 PM

Go for it LH ...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 05:38 PM

The article indicates that the purpose of the method is to create false identities in order to post propaganda.

1. If a "false identity" is created, it would be apparent that the false persona would be a member so banning GUEST posts beyond current limitations would be completely useless.

2. The suggested "IF THEN ELSE NOT" requires the existence of a "Permitted List." Who's gonna write the software to keep the "Permitted List" current with our conversations?

3. We already have multiple "shill" personalities here, capable of little other than parroting party lines, and most of us don't much care whether they're "official bigots" or just "amateurs." We (except for those few of us who haven't learned to ignore flamers) know, or learn quickly, who deserves to be ignored.

4. Professional propagandists coming here would risk being converted, rather than t'other way 'round, due to our high level of erudition and the prevalence of careful and thorough critical thinking.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM

"....would risk being converted, rather than t'other way 'round, due to our high level of erudition and the prevalence of careful and thorough critical thinking."

Christ! You're a real optimist, aren't you? ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 08:08 PM

"then force them to recant or be defenestrated"


Does defenestrate mean what I think it does? If so, OUCH!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 08:21 PM

You know that horse in Picasso's 'Guernica'? THAT'S 'defenestration'.

Personally, I don't want anybody's fenesters. Much too messy.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 08:24 PM

Quite so.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 08:32 PM

I think that just because someone voices an unpopular opinion doesn't make them a troll. 

I was there just because I posted what I felt were truths and good advice but it wasn't popular. I was recently made aware that three members sent Joe messages asking to remove some of my posts and even me !

Interesting how so many people don't have a problem calling other people trolls on a thread they started or a thread they had a different opinion in.


As Gable once said, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 08:42 PM

It was defenestrationthat sparked the 30 years war from 1618 to 1648...

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 09:39 PM

my tiny brain can't comprehend this but keep posting. maybe clarity will come.

charley noble, who doesn't exist

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 10:07 PM

See what I meant by: our high level of erudition and the prevalence of careful and thorough critical thinking.?

One might refine a half-ton of erudinium from the erudite in just half the posts that followed.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 10:15 PM

Ban Roll On Deodorant.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 03:53 AM

Defenestration? Oh, no! I don't think I could do without a fenester. Good thing I have two of 'em.

-Joe-

P.S. Eliza, you are very welcome here.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 04:36 AM

I have a much neater idea. We don't allow signed-on members or Guests who have no spaces in their name. If you've got a space - i.e. at least two components to your name - then you're in. No space - no status. This is simple and effective. So - from the posters above, we get rid of:

Foulestroupe (yup - you're the first to go)
PoppaGator (sorry Pop)
Eliza
999
Jeri
Akenaton
Q
JohnInKansas
999
... and so on

But we keep:

me (naturally)
Charley Noble
Richie Black
Guest From Sanity
Little Hawk (but NOT Chongo - note)
Joe Offer (phew!)
Herga Kitty
... and so on.

Now... if JohnInKansas becomes John In Kansas, PoppaGator becomes Poppa Gator and Foulestroupe becomes Foules Troupe, then they're in.

It's devising little things like this that keeps me sane...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 04:43 AM

WTF? Why am I gonna be removed twice? I protest!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 05:12 AM

Yeah - twice! If you WILL use numbers instead of letters...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 05:19 AM

Ah, man, that just don't seem right. But, maybe it is, SO, 1998 is g-g-g-g-gone.

And about trolls exposing themselves, I'm in favour of it, as long as it doesn't scare the horses.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 05:38 AM

hhmm... I would not have detracted from the importance of the information provided in the link from original post by titling the thread with an attack on how Mudcat operates.

Actually the link deserves more attention and should be placed in a thread of it's own. I find it disturbing that government departments especially intelligence and military are propagandizing in this way. I also fear they are collecting intelligence from any posting dissenters.

One thing for corporations and political parties to do it. Something else for a "democratic" government to not only permit but engage in it.

So when does the Red Army come banging down our doors for a throwaway comment on some obscure music forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 05:54 AM

"If you've got a space - i.e. at least two components to your name - then you're in."

Do you really think that Will Fly?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 06:03 AM

"We don't allow signed-on members or Guests who have no spaces in their name. If you've got a space"

Good idea Will Fly. Can I add a few members to that list with spaces between their ears ?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 06:58 AM

Do you really think that Will Fly?

Well, I said that it's little ideas like these that keep me sane...

(Why are these little pink elephants crawling over my skin? Why does mole rhyme with troll? Why are the atoms in my toes humming "Louie Louie...? Why is the earth shaped like a giant poppadom????)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 07:21 AM

I am not a sock puppeet. I am Spartacus.

RtSpartacus
(Nurse!)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 07:26 AM

I prefer not being a member as such. When I was (under my real name incidentally) I got fed up with PMs from people wanting to drag out discussions after the posts had dried up.

Anyway, wouldn't it be boring if all we had was foolstroupe, Akenaton and M'Unlearned Friend posting with no right of reply from the human race....

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Newport Boy
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 08:08 AM

@Virginia Tam
I find it disturbing that government departments especially intelligence and military are propagandizing in this way. I also fear they are collecting intelligence from any posting dissenters.

I don't worry too much about it - the process has been ongoing since well before the internet. I found 'intelligence' on myself which had been collected in the 1960's - inaccurate as usual.

I rely on the fact that governments are not very good at this. The Guardian carried an advert earlier this week for MI5 officers - "Analyse information", "Make decisions that really matter" - Salary £24750. Well, it's more interesting than driving a train, although it doesn't pay as much!

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 09:11 AM

@Virginia Tam
"I find it disturbing that government departments especially intelligence and military are propagandizing in this way. I also fear they are collecting intelligence from any posting dissenters."

Intelligence??? .....Here????
Hurray!!! for the Democrats and their Administration's policies...don't you just love 'em?!?!???
I know....'It's for the children, (sniff sniff)'....and global warming made them do it...and 'civil rights' only means selective subjects, especially when their misinterpreted and selectively misapplied...and if we don't like it, their coming to getcha'!

Isn't their any good Democrats in here that LIKE this???? (Foolestroupe is an Aussie, so he don't count....they already snookered them out of their guns......what next, their walkers?)

GfS

P.S. Don't worry, I'm from the Venus Police, and you're all under arrest.....the 'mother ship' is...........................ooops, I better not say......

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 09:56 AM

Exposed!? Talk about obscenity! I don't even want to think about this! YUCK!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 12:21 PM

Hey I'm gone so this is not me....lol

MikeL 2

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 12:39 PM

"Don't worry, I'm from the Venus Police"

If you rub it, does it surn into a tuitcase?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 01:12 PM

Chongo does have a space in his name. His full name is "Chongo Chimp", and that's what he posts under.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anon Trolls Exposed!
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 01:16 PM

The other thing to remember is that an a-hole is always an a-hole. If he works for the Gummint and creates ten pseudonyms to post to Mudcat under, all ten of them will post a-hole posts and will achieve the same fate as most a-hole posts, an early attrition.


A