BS: Drawin' Down On God

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 08:13 PM

From the New York Times:

N.R.A. Declines to Meet With Obama on Gun PolicyBy JACKIE CALMES
Published: March 14, 2011

WASHINGTON — More than two months after the Tucson shootings, the administration is calling together both the gun lobby and gun safety groups to find common ground. But President Obama has no plans to take the lead in proposing further gun control legislation, aides say, and the nation's major gun rights group is snubbing the invitation.


On Tuesday, officials at the Justice Department will meet with gun control advocates in the first of what will be a series of meetings over the next two weeks with people on different sides of the issue, including law enforcement, retailers and manufacturers, to seek agreement on possible legislative or administrative actions.

The effort follows Mr. Obama's call, in a column on Sunday in a Tucson newspaper, to put aside "stale policy debates" and begin "a new discussion" on ways to better enforce and strengthen existing laws to keep mentally unstable, violent and criminal people from getting guns.

But the National Rifle Association, for decades the most formidable force against proposals to limit gun sales or ownership, is refusing to join the discussion — possibly dooming it from the start, given the lobby's clout with both parties in Congress. Administration officials had indicated they expected that the group would be represented at a meeting, perhaps on Friday.

"Why should I or the N.R.A. go sit down with a group of people that have spent a lifetime trying to destroy the Second Amendment in the United States?" said Wayne LaPierre, the longtime chief executive of the National Rifle Association.

He named Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who has almost no role in gun-related policies, and Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.

"It shouldn't be a dialogue about guns; it really should be a dialogue about dangerous people," Mr. LaPierre said, adding that his group has supported proposals to prevent gun sales to the mentally ill, strengthen a national system of background checks and spur states to provide needed data.

Despite his opposition to joining the administration's table, by his comments in an interview Mr. LaPierre sounded at times like the White House.

For example, a White House adviser on Monday said Mr. Obama wanted to redefine the gun debate to "focus on the people, not the guns." The president, in his column, cited the same policy areas Mr. LaPierre mentioned as fertile ground for consensus. And Mr. Obama emphasized, "First, we should begin by enforcing laws that are already on the books" — a line long used by the gun lobby.

Mr. Obama's column in The Arizona Daily Star reflected his continued political caution toward an issue that for decades has polarized the country. In past weeks, aides had suggested he might give a public address expanding on his views about gun safety — an option that has now been put aside.

Mr. Obama spoke at a memorial service in Tucson four days after a gunman on Jan. 8 killed six people and wounded 13, including Representative Gabrielle Giffords. But gun safety advocates, including a group of mayors headed by Michael R. Bloomberg of New York, called on Mr. Obama to do more, including endorsing legislation to ban high-capacity magazines like those used in the Arizona attack.

Several factors have inhibited him. With Republicans now a majority in the House, legislation restricting guns has little chance of passage. And many Democrats, including Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, are opposed to stirring controversy and provoking the N.R.A.'s membership to oppose them.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 08:56 AM

Go review the Jefferson/Hemings thread, Simple. Might cut down on your flow of bullshit. Or not.

You Lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 12:01 AM

Of the states mentioned I am willing to say Mississippi and Georgia should allow guns any place and everywhere. These two states unlike Michigan, Virginia or Louisiana allow men to have legal sex with 16 year old girls. Wherever there is such young passion I say let them shoot it out where ever they are.

George Carlin 10 years ago there would come day when disgruntled worshippers will go into to church blasting. Its not just for postal or office workers anymore. Dr. George Till was just one high profile murder which took place at the alter of his church.
Other church shootings included a psycho who said he would have preferred to shoot lefties like Nancy Pelosi and Obama like Limbaugh suggested but all he had were some democrat loons in church.

Git er done

Soma them thar folks are jus itchin to "Gifford a Librul" iffn they kin getaway withit.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 11:49 PM

80%.    That is indeed curious--must be Greg's own "new math", unique to himself.

Gee Greg, all you have to do is grow up enough to realize that when you start a thread, you lose total control of it--unless of course you don't mind coming across as a ridiculous control freak---who on top of that will be ignored.   But perhaps that's fine with you.

Whatever floats your boat.    We want you to be happy.



Hope you feel better soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:43 AM

Absolutely, Simple Seeker!

ItIS patently obvious to anyone who reviews our past exchanges, particularly the ca. the 80% of them in which you specifically STATE that I had been correct, q.v. the Jefferson/Hemings thread, for example. The evidence speaks for itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:14 PM

By the way, your assertion that I always admit you are right is to put it mildly, dubious.   As anybody who reads most of our exchanges can see.

And there is of course a good reason for it---that in fact you are not always right--by a good bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:11 PM

Gee, Greg.   I'm so hurt.   And here I thought you'd be grateful to me for giving you a chance to use the word "nugatory".   Congratulations, by the way, on finding a place to use it--and for staying out of the gutter--so far.    See, using the English language-- and not Gassesprache-- can be fun.   Perhaps you can do it again. We'll soon see.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:34 PM

...bitter about other perceived outrages against him on other threads.

Bitter, Simple Seeker?

Simply not true, due to the Simple fact that after all your protracted bloviating on each and every one of those other threads, you ultimately admitted that I was correct from the outset.

Your nonsense is Simply annoying, not a cause for bitterness.

"Not that I would want to say"

Simple solution, Simple: follow your own wishes, and don't say.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: olddude
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:30 PM

It is just sad, all sad .. no other word .. maybe at one time they read the word .. but never understood its meaning

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM

"Not that I would want to say"

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

It's not new.    This is a fact.    I contributed a humorous aspect of it. Many thread originators would be happy to have a bit more humor in the thread. I hope the illustrious poster feels better soon.   

Not that i would want to say that he's still bitter about other perceived outrages against him on other threads.   I wouldn't want to say that. (Thanks again, Mr. Cheney.)

Or, in two words: chill out.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:54 PM

So? Its "new" in that its a spreading plague of late & not a single isolated incident.

Or didja just Simply HAVE to post some nugatory comment on a thread I started, Simply, to keep your hand in, Simple Seeker?

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:36 PM

This is also not a new idea.    It came up several years ago.   Garrison Keillor spoofed it in a Guy Noir segment--, e.g. "Let's turn to Hymn # 378, 'Eternal Father, Quick To Shoot'.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: mauvepink
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:44 AM

Sorry... I missed off...

Sandy, I liked the idea of the link you sent. Wonderful way to use music to calm the savage breast :-)

Barenboim did something similar with his Arab-Israeli Youth Orchestra to try and orchestrate peace in more ways than one.

Different target but similar concept in the use of music (sorry for the thread creep)

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: mauvepink
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM

"Onward Christian soldiers...." I think not

I suspect most true Christians would find guns inside a church as repugnant as they would outside

Can you imagine the stink if a load of guns were found in a Mosque? What's the difference?

Stranger and stranger

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM

Sandy, thanks for the link. That is a fantastic program!

Ya 'spose these idjits need a new set of commandments starting with "Thou shalt carry a firearm at all times as part of God's Army of Righteousness?"

What a bunch of sick fucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:56 AM

I'm less worried about someone who decided to shoot someone than I am about someone who just loses their temper while they happen to have a gun in their pocket.

Agreed, but I don't see how a law allowing or prohibiting is going to have any real effect on whether that person does have a gun in his pocket. If he's of the gun-totin' persuasion, he's going to ignore any such laws and have it in his pocket anyway. The only way to prevent it would be to have churches install metal detectors or have ushers start doing pat-downs and purse searches as parts of their usherly duties.

It makes no difference whether such laws are pro-gun or anti-gun, all they do is create controversy, rile people up, and waste legislative effort that could be better spent solving real problems. Theyre nothing but PR tools for politicians seeking to appeal to certain types of voters. They do nothing to change people's behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: John P
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:18 AM

If someone has decided to shoot someone else in a church, a law either allowing or prohibiting him from bringing a gun into church means absolutely nothing.

I'm less worried about someone who decided to shoot someone than I am about someone who just loses their temper while they happen to have a gun in their pocket.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: MarkS
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:11 AM

It's OK with me as long as the only one with the gun is the preacher.
Talk about getting serious about opposing sin..............
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 09:52 AM

What difference does it make? If someone has decided to shoot someone else in a church, a law either allowing or prohibiting him from bringing a gun into church means absolutely nothing. There's already a law against shooting people. Anyone willing to ignore that law isn't going to be deterred by a law that says he can't have a gun in church.

As for laws specifically allowing guns in churches, I guess the idea is that if some whacko does commit an assault, armed congregants will be able to take him down. Well, unless those armed congregants are trained police or military personnel, the odds of someone being a hero versus accidentally shooting an innocent bystander are probably about 50/50. Maybe it would be a good idea to encourage appropriate people to have guns in churches, but allowing every swingin' dick to do so is as likely to result in tragedy as heroics.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 09:44 AM

And its strange, very strange
You've got to pick up every stitch....

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 09:32 AM

Seems to be the "Season of the Loonies"...

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 09:22 AM

Or bagpipes.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM

It's a foot in the door. Next thing it will be banjos.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 04:00 PM

Guitars not Guns

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: ollaimh
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 01:22 AM

i am so glad we have gun cintrol in canada. the right wingers have tried to atteck it but all the compplaints from people i know are about being restricted because of their criminal record--what the f....???? if you have a crimainal recors you should never be allowed a gun again on pain of a life sentence. too bad if you are restricted fron gun usung occupations, pedophiles can;t teach children, criminals shouldn;t be able to own guns!!!

and in church---do any of these people actually read thre words of christ?? he's real big on turning the other cheek and fgorgiving your enemies. i missed the part where you art supposed to shoot your enemies and turn the other barrell.(i must have an out of date translation)

we have a gun problem in canada, because we have the world longest un defended border, and its so easy to smuggle guns from the united states of amunition. you can legally ban guns in churches. its not unconstitutiopnal. i know a coop farm that banned guns on thier farm in kentucty and a couple of members sued under the constitution and they lost. the gun nuts seem hell bent on expanding their rights everywhere even if they aren't needed, sensible or ethical.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 10:57 PM

I go to a nice lefty church. I have, I regret to say, made plans as to what I will do if some nut comes into the church during service and starts shooting.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Michael
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:19 PM

'Thou shalt not kill'.

So why the guns?

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:02 PM

it's pathetic, it really is!! I mean can't the likes of Jeff Pittman go anywhere without packing a gun? Seems to me not.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 05:58 PM

I kinda have this strange notion that someone who packs a gun to church has missed the point somewhere.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:36 PM

Why does the phrase "Kill a commie for Christ" suddenly come to mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM

Guns in churches or at political events is just wrong. I see it as a real "terrorism".
Whenever guns are involved, coercive, condign violence is intended.

Perdue is right, Jindall is wrong.

"You go into somewhere crowded, like a church, and there's three people who have guns out that are shooting at each other," he said. "How's the police officer going to be able to discern who's ... the bad guy?"

This is a specious argument. They are all the bad guys. There is never any intelligent justification for having guns or weapons at any public event.

There are plenty of people in the South who think this is a bad idea and they shouldn't be painted with the same brush.

There are some in the Wrong Wing who advocate gun-toting but they are destructive and ignorant people. Those who bring a god into it should be locked up.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 12:01 PM

Ain't just Dixie Greg. Passed a church sign in Columbus (Ohio) that read,

Concealed Carry Classes
Wednesdays at 7 PM

And it wasn't a Baptist or Roller church either! It was a friggin' Lutheran church............I remember when nobody ever scheduled anything for Wednesday nights because many churches also had services that night as well. I guess gun classes are the new church service of this century. Sunday services can become "An All Day Shootin' and Supper on the Ground".............

Thinking it through though, maybe this is just the thing to put some teeth into the "which Christian religion is best" argument.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 11:21 AM

More like non-existent reason, Amos. You really have to wonder- guess Dixie is in fact stuck at around the year 1845.

Subject: RE: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Amos
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 09:38 AM

I suppose one could be prosecuted if it turned out his reason for packing in church was either not really good, although sufficient; or, not sufficient, although good?

'Course it seems one would have to suffer from insufficient reason to get involved in such a dispute in the first place...

A

Subject: BS: Drawin' Down On God
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 09:21 AM

Ya never know who you might have to shoot during divine worship.

P.S.: Good old Mississippi does it again!

+++

States In Crossfire Over Guns In Churches

By ADELLE M. BANKS Religion News Service
Saturday, March 19, 2011


State legislatures in Georgia, Michigan and Louisiana are in the crossfire of the debate over gun rights and gun control as they consider allowing weapons in houses of worship.

In Thomaston, Ga., Baptist Tabernacle and a Georgia gun-rights association are challenging a new law that prohibits weapons in houses of worship.

A month after then-Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the 2010 law listing places of worship among "unauthorized" locations for carrying weapons, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal took the opposite tack. Louisiana law now permits worshippers to bring guns into churches, mosques and synagogues as long as congregants are informed.

Other crimes have prompted greater interest in new legislation. In 2009 alone, abortion doctor and usher George Tiller was shot in the foyer of his Lutheran church in Kansas; the Rev. Fred Winters was killed in his Illinois pulpit; and the Rev. Carol Daniels was found dead in her Oklahoma church.

Hawkins' organization reported seven homicides in churches in 2010, but while he supports crime prevention techniques, Hawkins does not advocate worshippers carrying guns into church.

"You go into somewhere crowded, like a church, and there's three people who have guns out that are shooting at each other," he said. "How's the police officer going to be able to discern who's ... the bad guy?"

In Virginia, carrying a gun in a house of worship is allowed unless there's a service being conducted. If there is a service, "good and sufficient reason" -- a term left undefined in the code -- is required.

In Mississippi, several bills introduced this year to remove churches from a list of prohibited places for weapons died in committee, but at least one continues to be debated.

"It seems to me that our law that explicitly prohibits acts in a church that are perfectly legal outside the church clearly violates the First Amendment in addition to the Second," said Jeff Pittman, vice president of the Mississippi State Firearm Owners Association.