Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:58 PM

A reasonably brief article that gives some information about how to clean a drive is at PC World: Answer Line: Wipe Your Drive Clean of All Its Sensitive Data.

The article includes links to some programs, both free and "real," that should be reliable, even though the article is rather old (2003). There are large numbers of "freeware" programs easily found with a search; but it's hard to verify that such programs actually do what they say.

The comment in the article that a 13GB Hard Drive (do they still make anything that tiny) took "12 hours" to wipe suggests what might be required to wipe "modern" 500 GB Drives. The new drives are a bit faster than the old ones, but you can probably time the process with a calendar if you use the most secure forms of wiping.

(Incidetally, the links all still seem to work, but I didn't check whether the prices on the unfree versions may have changed.)

Short of running the drive through an "industrial scrap grinder" that reduces the largest bits to bunny pellet size, physical destruction of the drive is not really secure against recovery of much of the data. A "wipe" with a known good program is better than anything you can do to it with the tools you're likely to have at home - including your stash of C4 or the PETN you brought home from WWI or II.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Bernard
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:06 AM

Contrary to popular belief, magnets are very unlikely to cause hard drives (or even floppies) to lose data irretrievably.

Whilst a bulk eraser can be used to 'wipe' a floppy so that it can be re-used as a 'new' disk, the data could be retrieved - and often has been for forensic purposes.

The only sure way to destroy a hard drive is to take the lid off and pour acid on the platters...! A hard disk platter is usually made from aluminium or glass with a magnetic coating, and destroying that coating is guaranteed to do the job. Once upon a time they used to be steel discs, but that is rare these days.

If the platters are glass, of course, you can just shatter them - but Murphy's Law says that the one you want to destroy won't have glass platters!!

It isn't enough to damage the heads or electronics, as data retrieval specialists take the platters out and fit them into another identical drive. Okay, there are usually other issues which have to be addressed, but that's it in principle.

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:41 AM

My neighbor wanted to know how to destroy the data on her hard drive - I suggested a bullet (I've never shot anything metal, though, so I suppose that isn't really a good idea, with the ricochet). Would a powerful magnet on the case do the same things?

As Joe suggests, tin snips should also do a job on it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:28 AM

FWIW, we often get software in applyable form from FreeCycle.

Our regional rummage sale starts collection in two weeks. Unfortunately, too many of the laptops and CPU's come in sans hard drives and, at the prices people are willing to pay, it does not pay to install one in, find source disks and install everything. As this is a charity, we have almost no budget and it is a battle to get new hard drives.

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 07:17 PM

No, John, I beg to differ! Not that it really matters(!!), but Windows 2000 was really a flavour of NT (NT5, I think?). Windows ME was the 'domestic' one... which, despite the hype, was merely a stopgap between 98 and XP Home, and quite unstable.

Windows 7, Vista and XP also have 'Pro' versions, but the 'domestic' OS list is as I gave it.

I have a copy (on the original issue floppies) of Windows 2 somewhere - it was bundled with a Goldstar 386 along with MS-Dos 4 (point something), which was an unmitigated disaster!

There was, briefly, Windows 3 mounted on MS-Dos 5.x before MS-Dos 6.22 eventually (via 6 and 6.20) became the most stable DOS since 3.3. This was the base for Windows 3.1 (domestic) and 'Windows for Workgroups' 3.11, intended for networking. It could work with NT4 if you downloaded a 32 bit network driver, but most network cards used co-ax 10baseT ethernet, which was slow and flaky.

Do you remember Gem? I have a copy of that somewhere, too!

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:34 PM

No Bernard.

You left out Windows 2000, so it's really (at least) Windows 10.

The earliest confusion is unresolved, as a Windows RT (runtime) was an integral part of PageMaker, and possibly elsewhere, before the "public" was aware of any kind of Windows at all. There apparently was a Windows 1 and a 1.3 (that I heard a little about) prior to Windows 2.1 which was really the first version to reach significant (if sparse) public awareness.

Although the distinction is seldom observed, Windows 3.11WG was also an essentially separate version, significantly different than "plain vanilla 3.11," and Windows 98SE possibly should also be counted as "distinct."

They may have deviated from normal counting over uncertainty about whether to recognize the commonly expressed opinion that WinME was so bad it shouldn't count at all - much like some people's current opinion of Vista.

And you've been around here long enough to know that ya can't kill the thread creep!

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Lester
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:29 PM

JohnInKansas - , in my previous life I was a computer engineer in the UK security based industry and I know exactly how hard it is to destroy a hard drive. Now if you are weak that you need a very very very (expletive deleted) large hammer don't measure me by your shortcomings ;)

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:09 PM

Nowt to do with this thread, really, but it amuses me that Microsoft cannot count...!

Leaving out the flavours of NT which were numbered differently,
7: Windows 7
6: Vista
5: Windows XP
4: Windows ME
3: Windows 98
2: Windows 95
1: Windows 3.1/3.11So Windows 7 is really Windows 9!

End of thread creep!

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 04:32 PM

In the period surrounding Win2K, the user level Windows versions were all "DOS based." The DOS-based systems were good enough for individual users' computers, but in the time when Win2K appeared they had limited ability to "network" even at user group levels, and connecting to a real network generally required use of separate "interface programs" that seldom worked as expected. (voice of limited experience)

The introduction of Windows NT, partly to provide a more "network capable" operating system, was less than successful, with the biggest problem possibly being that few people could really decide whether the additional things it could do were worth the additional user effort required to make it do them.

Win2K was a significant redesign based deliberately "more on NT than on DOS," although I don't recall whether the starting point was NT2 or NT3. The intent was to provide a PC (personal computer) operating system with decent built-in compatibility with the network server systems in use at the time.

During its lifetime, Win2K was probably more "secure" than co-existing "PC Windows" versions, required far fewer security patches, and was very much more "stable" than other versions extant at the same time. It almost never crashed (unless one tried to do something for which it wasn't really intended, or did something incorrectly) and it earned the reputation among network administrators for being much easier to "manage."

It's now old and tired, and should be put to rest by most users, although it did maintain a longer period of actual viability than several "lesser" Windows versions that appeared and faded during its life span.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 03:47 PM

An irritating problem with Win2k was the fact it could only support one drive per USB port - if you had a multi-card reader, it would only recognise the first 'drive' it found and ignore the rest.

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 07:07 AM

Lester -

To someone who has actually "manually disintegrated" a few hard drives, your remark suggests you may have limited experience with the actual activity.

You left out the "$@%#!!, @!#$!! - $@^&$^%" in front of "large hammer."

In actual cases, laptops dropped from more than 5,000 feet out of airplanes, deliberately burned in campfires, penetrated by armor piercing rifle rounds, and run through hammer-mill composter/shredders have been submitted to recovory experts who, in nearly all such cases, recovered over 50% of the original data from each "demolished" drive.

"Physical destruction" to the point of obliterating all the data generally exceeds the capabilities of "home craftspersons," although you may be able to do enough "appearance damage" to discourage a casual snoop.

Erasing and multple overwriting of the data is probably the most effective method ordinary folk can use. A "drive cleaner" program (with a confirmable reputation) is recommended if it's a concern.

Most drive makers will "certify destruction of data," sometimes for a (usually reasonably small) nominal charge, if you return it to them with a specific request to do so; although it's best to confirm that the service is offered and get a quote for the fee before sending a drive in.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Lester
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:25 AM

Any really important data on hard disks which are finished with should be formated with a very large hammer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 04:06 AM

On hard drives that have held financial information, I sometimes take wire-cutting pliers and cut a notch in the discs of the hard drive. I can't imagine that people can salvage information after that.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 02:58 AM

As Stilly says, it often is possible to recover files from even a reformatted drive. Whether that's a concern depends on what you had on the drive. (Or maybe on what you did while you were using it?).

A "quick format" as is often used only re-writes the cluster address bits on each cluster, so the rest of each cluster may be still there.

Deleting a file only deletes the first character of the file name. The rest of the file is still there.

A "deep" format theoretically writes all zeros to all the data bit locations, but a "zero that was previously a one" is sufficiently different than a "zero that was already a zero," so if fact writing all zeros just makes a drive full of zeros and "weak ones," which is still "mostly readable" with equipement that quite a few "hobbyists" (or criminals) may have.

There are programs available to "secure clean" drives, but some programs don't really do the job and even with the ones that have the abiity you do sort of need to know what options to pick.

Old cleaner utilities sometimes included a "Tempest Secure Wipe," occasioally called by a different name, that:

1. wrote all (data space) bits on the drive to ones.
2. wrote all bits on the drive to zeros.
3. wrote the entire drive to the bit pattern 1010101010 ...
4. wrote the entire drive to the bit pattern 0101010101 ...
5. wrote the entire drive to the bit pattern 001100110011 ...
6. wrote the entire drive to the bit pattern 110011001100 ...
7. repeated all of the entire preceding steps a minimum of 6 times.

Most such programs allowed you to "wipe" only the empty spaces on the drive, so that programs you wanted to keep would remain.

DOD considered that to be a "sufficient" removal of data, probably on the assumption that they were the only ones with the equipment capable of reading anything from it after that "wipe" had been done.

That was thirty (or more) years ago, and the criminals probably have equipment now that's as good as DOD had then, but of course there's no real need to be paranoid about what might be left on your drive unless...

More recent practice in some places requires that any drive that has ever contained any "sensitive" data must be handled according to the highest classification for anything that's ever been on it, until the drive is "shredded in the presence of qualified and authorized witnesses." (Their data is probably worth somewhat more than ours is.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 12:07 AM

I used Win2000 Pro on a computer that was stolen, and when I bought a new computer I moved up to XP. I looked around, I thought I had the Win2000 disks, but I may have sent those to the CD recycler/shredder finally. It was robust, and the NT file system is better than the FAT system, so there are aspects of it that still hang around.

Someone resourceful can still reveal your old files - in this day and age, memory is so cheap that I'd simply remove the hard drive before donating the computer. Someone else can put in a $50 hard drive and install free software to run it.

I did that very thing for my next door neighbor last week - after setting up her new all-in-one that runs Win7 Home (I don't think I'm going to be able to talk her into the upgrade to the Ultimate version) we set aside the 9-year-old Dell. She said she'd always wanted to look inside there, so I opened it revealing the box of air with stuff around the outside. "Which is the hard drive?" she asked, and I pointed it out. She asked me to remove it, then she set it aside and carried the old box to the garage to send to the Goodwill. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:44 PM

The difference between the .dll and the .dl_ files is that the "_" indicates a zipped "source" file that normally would be copied directly from the installation disk.

The .dl_ file "unzips" to produce the .dll, but in some cases the initial .dll needs to be "populated" with information specific to the installation - usually handled by the installer; but often just rebooting, once the .dl_ (or an unzipped .dll) is present, will finish creating the final .dll.

To find an "original" .dl_ file you have to look in the .cab files (the actual installation source files). Search engines in various Windows versions vary with respect to whether they'll tell you if the .dl_ actually is present in the .cab files, unless you search directly in the xxx01.cab file.

A "default" installation of most Windows versions would put a copy of the .cab files on the hard drive, so that you don't need to insert the installation disk during updates or to change options; but disk cleanup allows you to delete those "to save disk space" and lots of people wipe them out by accident, or intentionally without realizing that they can be helpful.

The file in question appears to be used only for database applications based on the mostly obsolete "Microsoft Jet" database structure, although I can't be sure of this. As for many "obsolete" components, live descriptions are somewhat vague, but it appears that the only problem likely without a correct version of the file might be failure of a very old version of Microsoft Access. Some info at Wiki: Microsoft jet

In database applications of the file, even later versions/updates of Access apparently renamed the file, and it's common for a more current database application to use a "diferently named" dll. Win2K would still attempt to install the original, but a newer db - possibly even an updated Access - will probably use something else anyway.

It appears that you can pass on the computer with a clear mind, and further concern would only be to satisfy your curiosity - if any remains.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 03:39 PM

As I may have stated, I do have the CD for Service Pack 4 for Windows 2000.

I ran that, and it told me it installed successfully, so I assume it had dao360dll and put it in the correct place(s) for Windows 2000.
I rebooted and ran START/SEARCH for dao360.dll, and it was found at three places.

So now the computer in question has a nice, shiny-new clean installation, with nothing else installed, and I can donate it with a clear conscience. If the next owner chooses to install something else, that his/her privilege.

Thanx, GUEST and Joe O, for your attention and input.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windoiws 2000 Pro
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 03:03 PM

Hi, Dave-
I've found it a bear to work with Windows 2000 Pro. We occasionally get it on donated computers that we pass on to our guests, and it's just too much of a hassle to work with an operating system that nobody supports anymore. I've kept one for using legacy software. What I've done with others is installed Ubuntu on old computers that have enough RAM. Minimum requirements say you must have at least 32MB of memory and 500MB of hard disk space to perform a normal installation - but they recommend 512 megabytes of RAM and 5 gigabytes of hard drive space. I'd stick with that recommendation as a minimum. Computers with less get sluggish.
Open Office comes with Ubuntu. It works more-or-less like Office 2003.

I see there's a Netbook edition of Ubuntu. I wonder if I can use that to revive old laptops for Internet use. I've been using the Desktop edition, but that's too much for some old laptops.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:50 PM

I do know windows 2000 is no longer supported, but you could try doing an internet search for sp3 and see if that comes up with anything.

Subject: RE: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:49 PM

A Start/Search on another computer, running on XP PRO, shows me a "dao360.dll" at three locations. Note "dao360.dll", not "dl_" .
Would these be usable in Windows 2000?

Since my first post I told the setup process to go ahead without the "dao360dl_". I don't know (yet) what the function of that file is. Assuming that the installed OS is usable, and assuming that file from the XP PRO is applicable to Windows 2000 also, could it just be copied to the relevant locations in the W2000 computer?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: Tech: Need Srv Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Pro
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 01:34 PM

I have an old tower desktop computer running Windows 2000 Professional which is surplus to my needs, and I intend to donate it to some good cause, but to protect myself from a subsequent user's access to my data on the disk drive I first uninstalled all non-OS programs, and then deleted essentially all data files. Then I defragged the HD.

Then I found that I had the original Windows 2000 Professional installation CD, and also a Service Pack 4 CD, I started the reinstallation process.

But near the end of the process I get an error message something like "unable to copy file dao360.dl_" from the CD.   Then a direction to insert Service Pack 3 CD in order to get dao360.dl_ . I find I don't have Service Pack 3 CD, and if dao360.dl_ was on the HD, it's gone to that great bit-bucket in the sky.

I suspect, though I don't know, that in the further installation process there will be other files for which I will need Service Pack 3 CD.

Now, where can I get the Service Pack 3 CD for Windows 2000 Professional?    Or does anyone have any other bright ideas of what I can do?

I'm not interested in spending a whole lot for this CD, since I'm just going to give the computer away, or if I try to sell it there won't be much realized at best.

Dave Oesterreich