BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 26 May 11 - 01:08 AM

Ah Akenaton "Sources" are only dubious when they happen to disagree with your version of events are they?

Eye-witness accounts?

Civilian casualties being treated in hospitals did what? Shoot themselves?

Bodies of civilian protesters on the streets that had to be buried were what? Bodies dug up or removed from mortuaries and arranged as required?

Defecting soldiers, political allies and Government ministers and appointees are ALL lying?

And the daft thing is he (Gaddafi) has done all this before during his 40 year reign.

Stick your head back in the sand Akenaton and sing a couple of verses of "The Internationale", then you'll feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:42 PM

>does their love of liberty and equality extend to the people of other nations, Vietnam and Iraq springing immediately to mind?.....or is death another definition of "freedom"?

The question was about the Bill of Rights, inviolate (if occasionally battered) since 1789.

Without it, there'd be no discussion about what sort of trials - civil or military - Guantanamo prisoners deserve. They'd simply be hanged, which some Americans would prefer.

Nobody in authority (much less the head of state) has seriously suggested that any prisoners, even dangerous enemies of the nation, be summarily executed.

Because in U.S. custody they have rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:38 PM

So the modern day "Peoples" Republic of China is NOT Capitalist??

Strange that, because while they were all good communists they were as poor as church mice and starving for the most part.

"Peoples" Republic?? Of course the "people" saw damn all of the rewards they were all the sole reserve of the "animals who were more equal than others" i.e. those selected to be "honoured" as members of the "Party".

The only Empire I have seen collapse in my lifetime Akenaton is the Communist one.

India is in terminal decline is it Akenaton?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:33 PM

Charley...It matters little whether we agree or not, we can discuss these matters with civility, that is a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:22 PM

"It would probably have got there about forty years ago and there would definitely have been an extra 70 million odd people who would have lived to enjoy that transformation."

Wrong Teribus, it would probably be in terminal decline like all of the other imperialist, capitalist empires!

Lighter....does their love of liberty and equality extend to the people of other nations, Vietnam and Iraq springing immediately to mind?.....or is death another definition of "freedom"?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:20 PM

>Todays America is far removed from George Washingtons America. Although they still pay lip service to a Bill of rights, in practice there is none.

Far removed indeed, but not in the ways of due process under the law. Since the abolition of slavery and segregation, the system has clearly improved.

And would you explain your statement about the Bill of Rights? (They don't have one in Libya or China - to give two non-controversial examples.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:59 PM

Lighter.....China today and China under Chairman Mao, are two different places.

The REAL question is, would China today be the fastest growing economy in the world and the most influential in the third world, if Mao had never existed?" - Akenaton

It would probably have got there about forty years ago and there would definitely have been an extra 70 million odd people who would have lived to enjoy that transformation.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:58 PM

To condense T's cut and paste .....from dubious sources, its because Gadaffi is "a bad man"..."deranged"..."a looney".....none of which is any of our business.

Our business should be dealing with our own "bad man" and "deranged looney" Mr Tony Blair.

But what have we done with him?.....made him Middle East peace envoy!
Its like putting the wolf in charge of the sheep!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:49 PM

Lighter....I justify nothing, I simply put up ideas for consideration.

BTW.....Todays America is far removed from George Washingtons America. Although they still pay lip service to a Bill of rights, in practice there is none.

As in all Americas satellites money talks.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:07 PM

Netanyahu may have "kicked ass," as you put it, but it wasn't Obama's.

"Toy president." Whose toy? I'll ask Al Qaida.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:32 PM

lighter: "Obama did not call in any way for a return to the 1967 borders. Read the speech."

I watched it live, as well as both speeches by Natanyahu ..and there's one for the Senate as well, which I'll watch. The consensus is that our toy president did a lot of back-peddling, from the intentional vague 'trial balloon'. Obama substantially damaged his own self, and once again his credibility is plummeting after the nation got a chance to witness a true statesman perform! Natanyahu, kicked ass!
that being said, there are things about him that I'm not so sure about either...BUT, after Obama's stupid drivel, he MUST have known, this was going to be a cakewalk....and it was.
I believe from EVERY report that I've heard, or person I've talked to, about it, that it was SUPER refreshing to hear from someone who actually loved their country..more than their own personal self image!

GfS

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:18 PM

Akenaton:

So Mao's murderous policies were justified because China today has a fast-growing economy and no Bill of Rights?

George Washington and his friends did a better job. Again, no executions required.

GfS:
>One of his biggest applause lines was aimed directly at President Obama.

ABC News has fallen a long way. Obama said that the 1967 borders should provide the basis for negotiations. That means that the current borders are negotiable within reason.

If he'd said instead that the *current* borders should be the basis, that would imply that he wants a settlement very close to what exists now, and conceivably even more territory for Israel.

His choice of words was an olive branch to the Palestinians (or at least the ones who don't demand the destruction of Israel) and nothing more.

Once negotiations begin (if they do), both sides will demand whatever they want anyway. If nobody walks out, they keep talking. It's called "negotiating." Maybe they'll agree to something, maybe not.

Obama did not call in any way for a return to the 1967 borders. Read the speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:00 PM

Not exactly on topic, but related, and for some silly biased based reason no one started a thread about this, but, Benjamin Natanyahu's speeches to AIPAC, and the Congress, kicked butt!!...It was nice to see a LEADER, instead of the spin machine, for the international bankers, for a change!!..Someone even asked, "Are you sure YOU don't have a birth certificate in Hawaii?"
He blew Obama's shit out of the water...and BOTH sides of Congress acknowledged it, including that slime-sucker Reid!!...and getting 29 standing ovations from both parties...> Here's a c/p from ABC 'news':

Today, ABC News' Jonathan Karl described Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech to Congress as seeming like a "State of the Union address by a president with sky-high approval ratings" due in part to the numerous standing ovations the foreign leader received. This apparently gave Karl an idea. He went back and counted the number of applause breaks and compared it to the amount President Obama got during his last actual SOTU address. Guess who got more?

Oh. I guess the headline kind of gives the answer away. Oh well.

Yes, Netanyahu received 29 applause breaks compared to Obama's paltry 25. This proves one thing; going to these things must be exhausting. Up, down. Up, down. If they had a big address like this everyday, everyone in Congress would look like Aaron Schock.



From ABC News:

    "One of his biggest applause lines was aimed directly at President Obama.

    'Israel will not return to the indefensible boundaries of 1967,' Netanyahu said, prompting a big standing ovation.

    Later he added: 'Israel on the 1967 lines would be only 9 miles wide. So much for defensible borders.'"


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 May 11 - 12:17 PM

Akenaton

1. "The protests, unrest and confrontations began in earnest on 15 February 2011. On the evening of 15 February, between 500 and 600 demonstrators protested in front of the police headquarters in Benghazi after the arrest of human rights lawyer Fathi Terbil. The protest was broken up violently by police, resulting in 38 injured"

2. "The protests continued the following day in Benghazi, Darnah and Al Bayda. Libyan security responded with lethal force. Four demonstrators were killed and three wounded." - Source Al-Jazeera report dated 16th February, 2011

3. "A "Day of Rage" in Libya and by Libyans in exile was planned for 17 February. The National Conference for the Libyan Opposition asked that all groups opposed to the Gaddafi regime protests on 17 February, in memory of demonstrations in Benghazi five years earlier. The plans to protest were inspired by the 2010–2011 Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings. Protests took place in Benghazi, Ajdabiya, Darnah, Az Zintan, and Al Bayda. Libyan security forces fired live ammunition into the protests, including .50 caliber sniper ammunition. Some of the gunfire came from helicopters." - Sources, Asharq Al-Awsat; Al-Jezeera & Malta Today

4. "Gaddafi referred to the protesters as "cockroaches" and "rats", and vowed not to step down and to cleanse Libya house by house until the insurrection was crushed. Gaddafi declared that people who don't "love" him "do not deserve to live" - Sources, Haaretz; Daily Telegraph; The Times of Malta; Al Arabiya.

5. "Soon after Gaddafi's government started to use force against demonstrators, it became apparent that some Libyan military units refused to shoot protesters, and Gaddafi had hired foreign mercenaries to do the job. Gaddafi's ambassador to India Ali al-Essawi confirmed that the defections of military units had indeed led to such a decision." Source The jamestown Foundation and as stated in passage quoted (Libyan Ambassador to India)

Not much hearsay at all Akenaton, Tell me who else in Libya would order the Libyan Armed Forces to fire on the protesters as they undoubtedly did? Care to tell us how many of Gaddafi's sons command the elite elements of the Libyan Armed Forces?

A thoroughly evil man who declared war on his own people, the sooner he is done away with the better for all concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 12:14 PM

Lighter.....China today and China under Chairman Mao, are two different places.

The REAL question is, would China today be the fastest growing economy in the world and the most influential in the third world, if Mao had never existed?
There is a man for all seasons....and who will be the West's man for the raging winter which has yet to come?

Charley.....get a grip, why is Assad being allowed to slaughter protesters with hardly a whimper from the West?

Why no vocal support for the protest movements in Saudi, Syria, Bahrain?

Three guesses
1.....Because "our monsters" control these countries and it is not in our interests to have these monsters removed.....its called hypocrisy!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 May 11 - 11:38 AM

I would agree that George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq was ill-advised, adventuristic, unsupported by any world body, and had a terrible cost in terms of loss of Iraqi life, loss of life and wounded among our own soldiers and those of a few allies ("The Coalition of the Willing"), and the monetary costs have almost bankrupted our economy.

I don't view the strategy in Libya in the same way;

There was a clear threat to the civilians in Rebel-held areas
There was initial support from the Arab League
There was support from the UN
There was action via NATO
There are no NATO troops on the ground.
Civilian casualties in Gahdafi-held areas have been surprisingly few

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 08:29 AM

>...our form of democracy...is simply a tool of political manipulation...

It is, however, the least manipulative tool yet developed.

On the other hand, autocrats like G don't need to "manipulate." They routinely use murder and extortion because that's the highest form of morality they know.

The Chinese method...it's coming back to me now...the Cultural Revolution and the slaughter of millions.

But at least it wasn't "manipulative."

By way of contrast, I'll repeat what I said earlier: after four years of bloody Civil War, the liberal U.S. Government did not find it necessary to impose mass executions or even prison sentences on its enemies. Those enemies, despite their unconscionable support of slavery, were sufficiently democratic and non-"tribal" to refrain from launching decades of guerrilla (not to mention terrorist)warfare.

I'm sure Chairman Mao, brainiac of the Cultural Revolution, had a different interpretation of these events.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:24 AM

As far as I'm concerned, the President committed an impeachable offense, going to war, without going to Congress, and going against the 'War Powers' act......but then, the international bankers made him do it!...you know, those guys he keeps bailing out, and giving away OUR tax money to....under the guise of bailouts, interest on the loans, and anything else they can dream up, to line their pockets with!!!
Its so much bullshit!
The 'Left' or the 'Right' is just YOUR dream....WAKE UP!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:42 AM

Our actions in Iraq....Basically US/UK with a few stragglers, led arguably to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.....we walk away with our "hands clean", yet Col Gadaffi and his supporters have to be blown to pieces because of the way he finds it necessary to keep order in a tribal land.....A negotiated solution will no longer suffice,he and his supporters must be killed just as Saddam had to be killed.....and we think WE do not evoke tribalism?

We make the old mistake of trying to export our form of democracy...which is simply a tool of political manipulation, into the minds of children and dreamers.
The endgame will be what we now see in Iraq....a lawless corrupt state ruled by mad clerics, with no decent infrastructure and the violent suppression of women.

We seem to be doing everything that we should not be doing in the Middle East and North Africa.

Observe how Chinese influence is achieved.... by helping underdeveloped nations to become productive, not by turning them into war blasted wastelands!

"None so blind".....etc etc

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 May 11 - 06:29 PM

akenaton-

There are times when the difference in philosophy or political perspective is too wide to bridge. So we're never going to agree on anything having to do with Libya, and the funny thing is that even if I'm totally wrong in my assumptions we still wouldn't agree!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:28 PM

That may be your interpretation of events T.

I dont necessarily accept everything I am fed by our military or government, whereas the events in Derry were there for all to see.

Who says G personally ordered the army to shoot? Who ordered 2 Para to shoot?

2,3,4,5 Hearsay!

6 Untrue...G vows to hunt down the "criminal insurgents" in "streets, houses or wardrobes"......not "destroy Benghazi"
7 The Arab league is a joke, led by corrupt quislings.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:14 PM

Video clip posted by MGOH does not look anything like a strike using "Cluster" Bombs.

It does look like a small initial single explosion that then causes sympathetic detonation - It all comes out from one point and blossoms - A typical pattern for "cluster" munitions is simultaneous over a wider spread, the "bomblets" being released and spread from the bomb or shell carrying them.

The version of this being an ammunition store cooking off fits the visual evidence in Kevin's link.

Akenaton tell me where I get this order of events wrong:

1. Libyan protesters take to the streets

2. Gaddafi calls in the army and orders them to shoot

3. Sections of the Libyan Armed Forces refuse to fire on unarmed civilians

4. Gaddafi brings in foreign mercenaries to shoot those protesting

5. Sections of the Libyan Armed Forces desert, the protesters raid Government armouries and arm themselves in order to defend themselves from atack.

6. Gaddafi vows to destroy Benghazi, stating clearly that the people will pay a price in blood for their actions

7. Arab League appeals to the UN to act.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 24 May 11 - 01:23 PM

Looking at this from a UK perspective, when we were interning our subjects without trial, torturing them, financing assasination squads and shooting protesters in cold blood,only a few years ago....I dont remember anyone being called to account, or charges of crimes against humanity brought.

If this situation were to arise again tommorow, would NATO feel oliged to kill our Prime Minister, sink our navy and engagfe in mass slaughter of our troops?.....I think not.

Attack helicopters are being readied to kill Col Gadaffis troops wherever they can be found ......Regime change, simple and as illegal as hell.

When you see the results of the coming election in Egypt, come back and tell me this is "all about democracy"

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:08 AM

"claimed" is the right word.

As noted by others, there is precisely zero proof that the caption "Obama uses cluster bombs on civilians..." has any validity whatsoever.

Anybody who would accept this video as proof of what the poster of the video says only shows his or her gullibility.

Gee, I wonder if the poster---and anybody who believes it--is left of center.

Do leftists ever do research?    Sometimes it seems unlikely they do.

They are great at smearing.    Not so wonderful at anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 May 11 - 08:49 AM

Al-Jazeera is no less biased than any other news organization.

But in light of its primary audience, when it does *not* repeat or endorse a story critical of the US or Israel, that should mean it doesn't believe the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 May 11 - 11:48 PM

Bobad-

Interesting. We do need to check out as well as we can the bias of our sources, and identify what it is up front if we can.

I generally find Al Zazeera a useful source, knowing that they are certainly not biased in favor of the US. CNN appears to be less than reliable to me; too often they appear to jump to conclusions on the basis of what will make a dramatic headline.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 11 - 02:04 PM

I would be very careful believing what the original poster of that vid clip says about it. If you go to his site or read the comments at the original YouTube posting it would appear that he is someone with an anti American agenda. Here is one of the comments:

"This was not a cluster bomb, nor was it in Brega. (If that was a cluster bomb then Misrata would be wiped off the map because Gaddafi forces have been shelling non-stop with those for a while now.) Anyways, this video is of an ammunition dump in the Benina Airport area in Benghazi exploding, this was reported a while back. It was a result of sabotage or an accident as there was no fighting anywhere near there nor in Benghazi at the time.

I am Libyan, also from Benghazi. Search Benghazi Explosion
BarcaFeb17 3 weeks ago 3

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 11 - 01:48 PM

Here's a video clip claimed to show this.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 11 - 12:28 PM

I haven't seen any reference to NATO forces using cluster bombs, can you provide a link to your information source?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 11 - 12:21 PM

Yes, Gaddaffi's side also appears to have been using cluster bombs. But it just seems they aren't the only ones.

Like the United States, and a handful of other countries (eg Israel, Russia, China), Libya has not ratified the International Convention on Cluster Munitions.

The other countries involved in this war have signed the Convention, so it would be illegal for them to use cluster bombs. However the Convention was specially modified to make it legal for counties which have signed it to cooperate militarily with non-signatories who use such weapons.

So that's all right, so long as the only NATO people using these weapons are USA...

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 May 11 - 11:58 AM

McGrath-

"They already appear to have used cluster bombs."

"They" and I could be wrong were the Gadhafi forces a few weeks ago, lobbing them in as shells or rockets at Misrata.

So hard to keep score when so few care!

But you make a good general point.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 11 - 11:00 AM

I'm trying to think if there are any acts of war which not be claimed by our leaders as justified ways of "protecting civilians". They already appear to have used cluster bombs.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 May 11 - 09:59 AM

>When they do, I'm prepared to weigh the arguments put forth by either side.

So what are you doing on this thread?

Some people...!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 May 11 - 09:32 AM

akenaton-

We're not going to agree on which side to support in Libya. But so far it seems unlikely that NATO will be targeting Westminster or even Glasgow. When they do, I'm prepared to weigh the arguments put forth by either side.

I don't consider soldiers, sailors, or aviators of the Gadhafi regime in the same category as "unarmed protesters" or "innocent civilians." By their recent actions such as mining harbors and indiscriminate shelling of residential urban areas they have placed themselves in the category of NATO targets.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 11 - 03:24 AM

Poster appears to be akenaton

---

No one can still be denying that this is simply about regime change.

These ships were obviously at anchor, not taking part in ending the insurrection and probably were partially crewed.

Simply murder,as cold blooded as the daily shooting of unarmed protesters in Syria.

I wonder if, when the Muslim Brotherhood take control of Egypt, will the penny drop in the minds to ordinary folks in USA, UK and Mudcat, that we have been duped again......and led by donkeys!

And Charley, maybe NATO will aim their drones at Westminster!!
Aye that WILL be right. It will be classified as an insurgency against the UK government and Crown.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 May 11 - 08:48 AM

NATO announced this morning that its bombers had sunk eight Libyan warships last night in Tripoli Harbor. Here's the story from Al Jazeera: Click here for story

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 11 - 09:57 AM

"Libya does not.."

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 11 - 09:10 AM

Ake-

We are talking about Libya--only.

If you would take off your blinders and read a bit, you'd see there are all sorts of indications the Libyans are in fact headed in the right direction--at least the rebels are.    The regime's schools were closed in Benghazi; they now have volunteers staffing the schools.   They have volunteers as traffic cops.   Volunteers as garbage collectors.

They are trying their best to put a government together.   And there is no dictator.

Gadhafi will likely soon be under indictment from the International Criminal Court, a branch of the UN, for crimes against his own people.

His reaction:   Libyra does not recognize this court.

Please tell us all the wonderful things Gadhafi has done and explain why a huge chunk of his own people want him gone.






Look, a very large number of the rebels are intellectuals. I would think you would identify with them.

Exactly what do you have against them?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 17 May 11 - 08:22 AM

What, exactly, would it prove if (and AFAIK it is only *if*)
"Xe Services" (formerly known as "Blackwater") "is going into Libya to help the rebels"?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 17 May 11 - 07:33 AM

No matter what government is elected it will have been chosen by the people, a right they have fought for and won.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 17 May 11 - 03:23 AM

Ron Davis....would you be prepared to accept bets on the outcome of the soon to be held elections in the new "democratic" Egypt.

And, if the West succeeds in assasinating Col Gadaffi,have you any idea who or what will replace him?

Remember how we were assured that the Brotherhood had"no intention of contesting future elections"
Well those elections are being rushed through and guess which is the most organised and popular faction?
The liberal Democrats?.....wrong!
The "liberal" Conservatives?....wrong!
The Socialist Party of Egypt?....wrong!

We told you so!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 11 - 02:48 AM

McG, I tend to agree with you on this thread, but I think you are wrong about this.
Gilligan said, ""This is a place of recreation, a public park where the people of Tripoli often come," insisted Moussa Ibrahim, the government spokesman. But this "public park" is reached by passing through no fewer than four concentric rings of 15-foot blast walls, checkpoints and sentry towers. Heavily armed guards stand around the outermost perimeter, moving on any passer-by who might mistake the place for somewhere to throw a frisbee. "

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 11 - 12:06 AM

"another dictator".      Drivel--from one of our most dependable sources.    Yes folks, another brilliant leftist observation.

Blissfully free, as always, from logic, evidence, and facts.

Nice to know some things don't change.




And by the way, if Blackwater is to be employed, let's have a source on this scoop. My understanding is that it is a possibility, not a fact.

I will defer to anybody with a good source on the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 May 11 - 09:14 PM

"Blackwater is going into Libya to help the rebels."

Blackwater or whatever they renamed themselves goes where the big bucks flow. I do wonder who is paying them in advance.

Actually I think Blackadder should be sent in.

Akenaton-

"Thank fuck it wont be long till Scotland is free from the warmongering bastards."

Good luck on that, but watch out for them drones.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 May 11 - 07:00 PM

Newsflash: Blackwater is going into Libya to help the rebels.

The U.S. doesn't like Gadafi and they want another dictator in there that they can do
business with.

As Hillary says, "regime change".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 11 - 06:31 PM

The thing is, what "we see herre" is never the whole picture, and can't be. We can only speculate about many significant details.

For example, was that children's roundabout which was mentioned placed there after the bombing started, or has it been there since a time when there was no expectation that foreign countries, which at that time were friendly, would soon be carrying out bombing raids?   We just don't have that kind of information.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 11 - 05:20 PM

Childrens' playgrounds placed on top of U boat pens.
That would be equivalent to what we see here.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 May 11 - 04:07 PM

Oooops ... I meant relevance, not revelance .... just wanted to make a correction before some tight ass tries to slam dunk me with that one.

biLL   ... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 May 11 - 04:04 PM

I reacted to McGrath's post .... it sparked that song from deep in my memory ... just a touch of music revelance to this thread ... after all, the Madcat is basically a music website.

anyway

on with the arguments and debating.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 11 - 03:51 PM

I was referring to this in Andrew Gilligan's report: "Forty feet away from the crater made on Thursday by a NATO bomb, young boys and girls played happily..."