Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]


BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

bobad 21 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM
Ron Davies 21 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM
Charley Noble 21 Aug 11 - 10:12 PM
Songwronger 21 Aug 11 - 10:42 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 21 Aug 11 - 10:58 PM
Ron Davies 21 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM
akenaton 22 Aug 11 - 02:26 AM
bobad 22 Aug 11 - 08:04 AM
Charley Noble 22 Aug 11 - 08:23 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 22 Aug 11 - 04:31 PM
Charley Noble 22 Aug 11 - 05:09 PM
Teribus 22 Aug 11 - 05:56 PM
bobad 22 Aug 11 - 07:59 PM
Charley Noble 22 Aug 11 - 08:08 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 23 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM
bobad 23 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM
Charley Noble 23 Aug 11 - 03:44 PM
Charley Noble 23 Aug 11 - 04:44 PM
Stringsinger 23 Aug 11 - 05:20 PM
gnu 23 Aug 11 - 05:38 PM
Charley Noble 23 Aug 11 - 06:58 PM
akenaton 24 Aug 11 - 09:52 AM
Charley Noble 24 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM
Charley Noble 24 Aug 11 - 11:29 AM
gnu 24 Aug 11 - 03:17 PM
bobad 24 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM
Ron Davies 24 Aug 11 - 11:49 PM
akenaton 25 Aug 11 - 03:54 AM
Teribus 25 Aug 11 - 11:22 AM
akenaton 25 Aug 11 - 12:32 PM
Teribus 25 Aug 11 - 01:28 PM
gnu 25 Aug 11 - 02:58 PM
akenaton 25 Aug 11 - 06:00 PM
gnu 25 Aug 11 - 06:38 PM
bobad 25 Aug 11 - 06:42 PM
Charley Noble 25 Aug 11 - 08:28 PM
Ron Davies 25 Aug 11 - 10:51 PM
Ron Davies 25 Aug 11 - 10:52 PM
akenaton 26 Aug 11 - 02:51 AM
bobad 26 Aug 11 - 04:36 PM
gnu 26 Aug 11 - 04:56 PM
bobad 27 Aug 11 - 07:23 AM
Charley Noble 27 Aug 11 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 27 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM
bobad 27 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 27 Aug 11 - 11:59 AM
bobad 27 Aug 11 - 12:03 PM
bobad 27 Aug 11 - 12:17 PM
Charley Noble 27 Aug 11 - 02:54 PM
Charley Noble 27 Aug 11 - 08:58 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM

Watch history in the making live: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM

Thanks, Bobad,   There obviously are already some districts in Tripoli under the control of the rebels--according to al-Jazeera.    And supposedly two of Gaddafi's sons have been captured.    But even if neither of these proves correct, if the news that they have captured a huge arms depot which formerly belonged to an elite Gaddafi unit proves correct, that in itself is a giant step forward.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:12 PM

Rebels are reported now in the central square of Tripoli, with major Gadhafi army units surrendering according to Al Jazeera: click here for report!

All sorts of rumors about Gahdafi's whereabouts. No doubt he fled to Venezuela months ago.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:42 PM

Under Kadafi, Moslems in north Libya were forbidden to kill blacks from south Libya. Kadafi built the most extensive irrigation network in the world for his country. He was about to provide every Libyan schoolchild with a computer.

Then the Brits and the CIA imported some al Qeada fighters into the country. Can't have nations succeeding unless they do it under the control of the World Bank. So al Qeada was brought in and the western media told us they were freedom fighters. Things went badly for the freedom fighters until the country's international funds (frozen) were turned over to them. They immediately used the funds as collateral for usurious loans from the World Bank--for the future of the people of Libya and all that. And then Hillary Clinton recognized the freedom fighters as the country's legitimate government. She gave them the keys to the Libyan embassy in Washington DC. Honest-to-god al Qeada terrorists now have an embassy (on Vigrinia Avenue, I think it is) in DC. And they're back to lynching blacks in the south, too.

Hopefully NATO will now loose its wrath on the villainous Windsor family. Bomb them out. Cut down their progeny one by one. That'll be some good sport, won't it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:58 PM

No way will it be over by the end of August (unfortunately).    My concern is that it looks like it has to be over by the end of September, since some NATO powers have said they will only support the campaign through September. - Ron Davies. Oh dear....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM

Gee, Peter, sorry it didn't drag on as long as you wanted, with NATO states eventually dropping out (some by the end of September)--and the rebels therefore losing.

Just think, you could have bet me a beer too and won.   I assure you that as I told Charley, I'm quite happy to lose my bet.

For one thing, the quicker it ends the less loss of life.

But perhaps that's not of concern to you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:26 AM

"This is not the beginning of the end, merely the end of the beginning".......the axis continues to build nicely.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:04 AM

32nd BRIGADE COMMANDER WAS SECRET OPPOSITION SUPPORTER:

Gaddafi forces of course remain, notably at major bases such as Sabha in the south, but there are unconfirmed reports that the Presidential Guard and all Government troops between Brega and Sirte have surrendered.

Many are surprised at the ease with which the Opposition coming from Zawiyah were able to travel so quickly into the western suburbs of Tripoli and to breach the crucial 32nd Brigade army base which had been charged with the defence of the capital.

However, it has emerged that the base commander, whose brother was executed by Gaddafi in an attempted coup to overthrow him in the 1980′s, had secretly defected to the Opposition.

At the crucial moment, as Opposition forces approached, he told his troops to lay down their arms and withdraw from the base. Without this there would have been a long and bloody fight.

It is also reported that the same base commander revealed the secret whereabouts of Saif Gaddafi who was hiding in a hotel in a holiday village complex in western Tripoli, thereby facilitating his arrest.

http://www.petercliffordonline.com/libya-2/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:23 AM

bobad-

Interesting reports.

I'm not expecting anyone here who has faith in Col. Gadhafi to change their minds at this point, but evidently this thread has picked up a newly (july 7, 2011) cloned troll. Just what is needed to clear the air.

No doubt the Republicans (and FOX News) will still be critical of Obama's intervention, spending $1 billion to topple Gahdafi instead of the $1 trillion that GWB spent to topple Saddam. And I feel really sorry for all those who recently invested in oil futures.

On with the end game.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:31 PM

For one thing, the quicker it ends the less loss of life.

Courtesy of NATO mission creep, the rebel rabble have in fact won too soon. The NTC is nowhere near ready to run a country. Anarchy lies ahead, and continuing loss of life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:09 PM

Peter-

"the rebel rabble have in fact won too soon"

Now that's a position that's really persuasive. Really, Peter, would you prefer this uncivil war to drag out for a year or more so as to "harden" the Rebels?

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:56 PM

I rather liked the point raised that "It was all about oil" and that BP were in control of the British and US military, now let me see the Commander-in-Chief of the latter is who again?? Oh that's right a certain Barack Hussein Obama - perhaps gnu can tell us how great a subservient fan of BP Barack Obama is again.

All the chat about what may happen in Libya:

- It might turn Islamic Fundamantalist?

- It might be anti-western?

- It might sponsor international terrorism?

- It might develop WMD for use by said terrorist organisations?

Hey harbingers of doom Libya has been all of the above for bloody years and was very successfully contained in the past and can be again.

The very least we can do is allow them the freedom to decide for themselves what they want - It certainly was never Gaddafi.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:59 PM

Realpolitik

"As Libya edges towards a future without Muammar Gaddafi, the prospect of oil reserves are whetting the appetite of hungry industrial nations.

About 75 Chinese companies operated in Libya before the war, involving about 36,000 staff and 50 projects, according to Chinese media.

Russian companies, including oil firms Gazprom Neft and Tatneft, also had projects worth billions of dollars in Libya. Brazilian firms such as Petrobras and construction company Odebrecht were also in business there.
Italian oil company Eni led the charge back into Libya on Monday as rebels hailed the end of Muammar Gaddafi's rule and as traders watched for the return of Libyan crude to the market.

Gaddafi's fall will reopen the doors to Africa's largest oil reserves and give new players such as Qatar's national oil company and trading house Vitol the chance to compete forlucrative contracts, but rebels warned Russian and Chinese firms may be frozen out for failing to support the rebellion.

"We don't have a problem with Western countries like the Italians, French and UK companies. But we may have some political issues with Russia, China and Brazil," Abdeljalil Mayouf, information manager at Libyan rebel oil firm AGOCO, told Reuters."

The comment signals a potential setback for those countries which opposed tough sanctions on Gaddafi or pressed for more talks and would leave European and US companies to capture billions of dollars' worth of oil exploration and construction contracts in the OPEC member nation." [Reuters]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:08 PM

I suspect that those who believed that ordinary Libyans benefited in major ways by Gadhafi's 41 year reign will be soon confronted with information about how the oil wealth was actually distributed, largely to his family and cronies. I don't expect them to change their opinions.

And the trains may have run on time...

Someone stop me before I begin the froth at the mouth.

Looks as if there is still some serious resistance in several neighborhoods in Tripoli.

And Gadhafi is still at large.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM

Charley, "catastrophic victory" as they call it - ie victory before the rebels are sufficiently organised to avoid a power vacuum - is a problem that NATO people were aware of and warning against, as reported in The (London) Times. I can't give you a link because I am not a subsciber to the online edition.

How well organised are the rebels so far? Not at all, if their farcical atempt to detain Gadaffi's sons is anything to go by. Here's a cut-and-paste for the BBC's live internet stream a few minutes ago:

Libya's former envoy to the UN, says the rebels had two of Col Gaddafi's sons in their custody but they managed to escape. "This is a popular revolution," said Ibrahim Dabbashi, who defected from Cold Gaddafi's government in February. The rebels "don't have any training in the field of security," Associated Press quoted him as saying.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

Rebels cop Gaddafi's hat: video


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:44 PM

Peter K-

I was being snappish and apologize.

We really shouldn't rush to judgment on how well the National Transitional Council is able to carry out all its goals. Whatever is happening in Tripoli now will not be entirely resolved for a day or two, and the details remain confusion. The broad picture is quite clear: the Rebel forces are gaining more and more control over the city.

There are also reports from other parts of the country of Gadhafi forces in rapid retreat.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:44 PM

More reports after the successful capture of Gadhafi's compound: click here for report!

Now someone is going to complain that the Rebels didn't sweep up after themselves.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 05:20 PM

Night is falling in Tripoli. Do you know where your taxpayer money is?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 05:38 PM

"...perhaps gnu can tell us how great a subservient fan of BP Barack Obama is again."

I am not quite sure I understand. But, in any case, if you disagree with my hypothesis that BP and Shell and Kellogs and... control what happens... INCLUDING in the US government... good luck with that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:58 PM

"Do you know where your taxpayer money is?"

For those who are counting tax dollars:

Iraq "War of Liberation" = more than $1 trillion

Libya "War of Liberation" = about $1 billion

Of course Libya will take more money to rebuild the country's infrastructure but at least the Libyans have billions impounded in the States and in banks controlled by other Western powers that can be returned to the interim government.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 09:52 AM

That'll build a lotta mosques.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM

Mosques, churches, temples, whatever!

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:29 AM

The foreign jouranalists are now free according to this report:

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Dozens of international journalists trapped in one of Tripoli's most glittering hotels for five days walked free Wednesday, ending what some were beginning to fear was a hostage situation.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:17 PM

Teribus... you fall asleep again? YES. I say, yet again, Beth and Bea and Juan and... are having cordials and relishing the fact that the USA's Barry B'y, and that Garge fellah before him, did what they were told to do by the largest corporations on earth.

Wait until The Gulf oil spill starts washing ashore in Britain. You think THIS was a good show. You ain't seen nuthin yet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM

A couple of Tweets from Matthew Chance, a CNN journalist who was one of the one's trapped in the Rixos Hotel:

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
Crisis ended when #rixos gunmen realised that #Libya outside of hotel doors was no longer Libya of old. Handed us their guns & said "sorry."


mchancecnn Matthew Chance
In the end - felt sorry for guards. All they knew was Gadhafi's regime. Took them a while to realise it had crumbled. Remarkable transition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:49 PM

"largest corporations on earth".    Don't you leftists ever read anything?    Or are you convinced that every rebel in Libya is also in the pay--or duped by--said corporations?    Why doesn't the idea of throwing off a tyrant's rule ever occur to you?

Especially since you leftists are such past masters at whining that the West always supports tyrants.

Now in Libya the West has aided the Libyans in toppling a tyrant.   But suddenly that's not what the brilliant minds on the Left had in mind after all.

Perhaps they are just determined to whine regardless of what the West does---they are card-carrying members of the "ain't it awful" club.    Regardless of what it is--ain't it awful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:54 AM

Dont be silly Ron, Everyone knows the insurgents were a mixed crew, go back to the top of the thread and read it again.

Most people also knew that the Col could not win against Nato airpower.....his troops could not even fight without being bombed from 20,000 ft.

The important part is what happens next, in my view what happens in Egypt is the key and it is almost certain to be dominated by Muslim fundamentalists, through the organisation of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Soon we will have a strong Islamic axis containing Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya.....with many more waiting in the wings.
Why do you think the West are so hesitant to move in on Assad?

They are beginning to understand that they have been outflanked again.

Report on BBC today, that "human rights" are much worse the the new "democratic" Iraq than they were under Saddam.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:22 AM

Akenaton,

In Egypt the same people will be in charge as have been in charge since 1956 - The Army

Care to tell us what "Human Rights" existed in Iraq under Saddam Hussein?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:32 PM

They are apparently killing homosexuals and refusing to educate young girls.....the staus of women has certainly worsened since "democracy" was planted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:28 PM

And the human rights enjoyed under Saddam Hussein were??

Your preferred ruler of Iraq seems to have been a great favourite of both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International as it appears they wrote so much about him and his regime, while he was in power.

Liked the consideration he showed for the citizens of Iraq during those busy and hectic elections, he prepared the ballot papers so that they didn't have to go to the trouble of marking them, all the people REALLY HAD TO DO was turn up and be registered as having voted otherwise things would go really pear-shaped for them, their immediate families and their relations.

Source please for girls being refused or forbidden education. You do not seem to have any problem with the other Arab countries killing homosexuals then? Islam as interpreted by certain Arab sects is not renown for being the most tolerant of religions, or hadn't you latched onto that fact yet?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 02:58 PM

Ron Davies... ""largest corporations on earth".    Don't you leftists ever read anything?    Or are you convinced that every rebel in Libya is also in the pay--or duped by--said corporations?    Why doesn't the idea of throwing off a tyrant's rule ever occur to you?

Especially since you leftists are such past masters at whining that the West always supports tyrants.

Now in Libya the West has aided the Libyans in toppling a tyrant.   But suddenly that's not what the brilliant minds on the Left had in mind after all.

Perhaps they are just determined to whine regardless of what the West does---they are card-carrying members of the "ain't it awful" club.    Regardless of what it is--ain't it awful."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:00 PM

You have rather answered your own question Teribus....be it in a rather insulting way. I have a large problem with anyone killing homosexuals or anyone else for that matter.

"Islam as interpreted by certain Arab sects is not renown for being the most tolerant of religions".....very true, and what are we in the process of doing in the Middle East and North Africa?
Helping to remove strong dictators who keep these people in line and replacing them with something much worse masquerading under the cloak of democracy.

Al Quaeda must be in hysterics over our stupidity and greed.

The allegations were reported on a BBC radio 4 piece early this morning......and the reduced status of women has been commented on regularly,in the aftermath of the Iraq conflict.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:38 PM

Dunno what happened to that last post.... I'll try it again...

Ron Davies... ""largest corporations on earth".    Don't you leftists ever read anything?    Or are you convinced that every rebel in Libya is also in the pay--or duped by--said corporations?    Why doesn't the idea of throwing off a tyrant's rule ever occur to you?

Especially since you leftists are such past masters at whining that the West always supports tyrants.

Now in Libya the West has aided the Libyans in toppling a tyrant.   But suddenly that's not what the brilliant minds on the Left had in mind after all.

Perhaps they are just determined to whine regardless of what the

West does---they are card-carrying members of the "ain't it awful" club.    Regardless of what it is--ain't it awful."
*******************************************************************

Well, Ron, that's not what I said. I said that the US government is controlled by the large corporations and their representatives which are both owned by the British.

Now, can you quote any of my posts in which I said what you say I said? If you can, I will apologize. If not, well, I think you know by now what my comment will be to you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:42 PM

Ake, the population of Libya have emphatically demonstrated that they do not share your admiration of their dictator.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:28 PM

Much as I've been cheering the Rebels on in this thread (because of Gadhafi and his gang of plunders), I'm also well aware that this revolution could go sour in a number of ways, and that international oil companies have the most to gain. But maybe, just maybe, there will be a miracle!

The situation in Libya is unique in some ways from the other Middle Easter countries that have had recent revolutions or are still in the throes of public protest and military repression. There will not be a strong professional military as in Egypt. There are oil resources and foreign Libyan funds that can be used to rebuild the country, unlike Egypt, Syria, or Yemen. There is a potential in Libya, as happened in Iraq, for tribal/religious divisions to squander the nation's resources. One hopes that a reconciliation policy that is broadly implemented by the National Transitional Council will keep that in check, but there are lots of feuds and grudges built up over a period of 41 years, not to mention hotheads and politically motivated fringe groups.

I would venture to guess that Libya will do better than Iraq in achieving full recovery in a much shorter period of time. Anyone out there who wants to call my bluff?

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:51 PM

I would disagree that international oil firms have the most to gain.    The Libyan people have potentially the most to gain--especially after all that time under Gaddafi's klepto-regime. And quite a few of them seem to feel the same way.

They also have the best of chance of any state in the "Arab Spring" to make this possibility a reality--in large part due to their oil wealth, which can in fact fund a prosperous state in which the wealth does not all go to one family.

We'll see if this does happen, but the international community can in fact help.

Despite the classic --and typical--sour attitude of our dear friends on the Left. Who remind me above all of the Li'l Abner character, Joe Blllfitisk--who had a dark cloud following him wherever he went.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:52 PM

"the best chance"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:51 AM

I study the past, and attempt to deduce the future.

Islam does not sit easily with Western style "democracy".

But what we believe to be good for us, is not necessarily good for the rest of the world.....or our long term future.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:36 PM

Canadian made Aeryon Scout UAV being used in Libya; video


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:56 PM

So, Ronny boy... it APPEARS I owe you a... you know. Don't bother to apologize in future. It would be hollow, and for good reason.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:23 AM

The short life and cruel death of Libyan freedom fighter Izz al-Arab Matar

Booker prize-shortlisted Libyan novelist Hisham Matar writes movingly of how his cousin was killed by a sniper in Muammar Gaddafi's compound

Guardian article


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:57 AM

bobad-

There are many such compelling stories of such self-sacrifice, and some of haunting brutality as well.

Hope for reconciliation depends on the ability of the NTC to implement its stated policy. The desire for vengeance and/or plundering mitigates against such reconciliation.

Conditions in abandoned hospitals in Tripoli (not to mention elsewhere) are atrocious if anyone has the stomach to view such videos.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM

Indeed Charley, there are too many stories of scores being settled, extensive evidence of summary executions in the streets, and maybe more disconcerting stories about unlikely high percentages of black people killed in the streets (some here) to feel all is going to be well in Libya any time soon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM

"....unlikely high percentages of black people killed in the streets"

You haven't heard about the mercenaries apparently.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:59 AM

I have, I have also read the reports that there was a bit more going on under the guise of shooting mercenaries. 'Ethnic cleansing' was mentioned. I realise it's all the fog of war, it's disconcerting nonetheless, too often situations like this are used for settling old scores and so get in the way of any chance of reconciliation and getting the place back to a semblance of normality.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 12:03 PM

It won't easy but I have faith in the will of the Libyan people to build a democratic and civil society after 42 years of oppression.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 12:17 PM

There will be revenge attacks at some point, it is inevitable given the war of extermination that was launched against the people by Gaddafi. The surprising thing is that no one has found any evidence yet for it. This shows exceptional discipline on the part of the revolutionaries to avoid such actions thus far.

What we do have in spades is evidence of Gaddafi forces engaging in massacres in their last few hours of control.

The National Transitional Council has repeatedly warned the fighters against taking revenge against Gaddafi's fighters and only today announced that anyone caught doing so would be prosecuted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 02:54 PM

The video of the hospital was certainly convincing evidence that some 80 people in Tripoli had been shot and dumped there, or dumped there and shot later. The Rebels claim that Gahdafi supporters brought them in and ordered medical personnel out of the hospital.

But we really should resist the desire to rush to judgment with regard to who they were, who shot them, and why they were shot.

Or you could fly over there and do your own research. Good luck!

Gadhafi's home town of Sirte seems to be the current focus point of the Rebel mopping up operation. Hopefully the town will surrender.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:58 PM

This is a nice post for "900" commemorating as it does the recognition by the Arab League of the Rebel Victory in overthrowing Gadhafi (from Al Jazeera):

The Arab League has restored Libya's membership in the bloc, turning over the country's seat to the National Transitional Council (NTC), the rebels' political leadership.

The 22-member League suspended the country's membership in February in protest to Muammar Gaddafi's crackdown on demonstrators.

At a Saturday League session, Mahmoud Jibril, seen as the foreign minister of the National Transitional Council led the Libyan delegation in the meeting.

He urged the Arabs to help rebuild and stabilise his country and asked the League to help in unfreezing Libyan assets abroad.


Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 26 January 7:02 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.