Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]


BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

bobad 29 Aug 11 - 06:52 AM
bobad 29 Aug 11 - 08:03 AM
bobad 29 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM
akenaton 29 Aug 11 - 10:23 AM
bobad 29 Aug 11 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Bluesman 29 Aug 11 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Bluesman 29 Aug 11 - 02:10 PM
bobad 29 Aug 11 - 02:20 PM
Charley Noble 29 Aug 11 - 03:54 PM
bobad 30 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM
Charley Noble 31 Aug 11 - 08:18 AM
bobad 31 Aug 11 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 31 Aug 11 - 09:53 AM
bobad 31 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM
akenaton 31 Aug 11 - 01:28 PM
GUEST 31 Aug 11 - 01:45 PM
bobad 31 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM
The Sandman 31 Aug 11 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 01 Sep 11 - 08:17 AM
Charley Noble 01 Sep 11 - 09:21 AM
akenaton 01 Sep 11 - 03:55 PM
Charley Noble 01 Sep 11 - 04:58 PM
bobad 01 Sep 11 - 10:28 PM
akenaton 02 Sep 11 - 02:43 AM
Teribus 02 Sep 11 - 03:20 AM
Charley Noble 02 Sep 11 - 09:16 AM
Ron Davies 02 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM
Charley Noble 02 Sep 11 - 11:41 AM
bobad 02 Sep 11 - 06:01 PM
Charley Noble 03 Sep 11 - 10:44 AM
Charley Noble 04 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM
bobad 04 Sep 11 - 08:13 AM
akenaton 05 Sep 11 - 03:11 AM
bobad 05 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM
Charley Noble 05 Sep 11 - 10:53 AM
akenaton 05 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM
Charley Noble 05 Sep 11 - 03:51 PM
gnu 05 Sep 11 - 04:07 PM
akenaton 05 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM
Charley Noble 06 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM
bobad 06 Sep 11 - 05:48 PM
Charley Noble 06 Sep 11 - 08:17 PM
Ron Davies 07 Sep 11 - 09:07 AM
The Sandman 07 Sep 11 - 12:20 PM
Charley Noble 07 Sep 11 - 10:51 PM
Ron Davies 07 Sep 11 - 10:54 PM
Ron Davies 07 Sep 11 - 10:55 PM
akenaton 08 Sep 11 - 02:48 AM
bobad 08 Sep 11 - 08:10 AM
bobad 08 Sep 11 - 08:11 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:52 AM

How dictators' families live, part 2: video


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 08:03 AM

"Without NATO's help, it would have been much more difficult for the
opposition movement to be as successful as it has been. However, the
notion that the uprising in Libya is somehow just a Western plot to get
oil is not only a gross distortion of the truth; it is a huge slap in
the face to Libyans who have died fighting for freedom. Libyans started
the uprising. And Libya will soon be free not because of NATO or the US
but because of the continuous courage and steadfastness of the Libyan
people.

Moreover, Gaddafi supporters who attempt to portray the National
Transitional Council (NTC)— the Libyan "rebel government"—as a sellout
to Western imperialism completely ignore the fact that Gaddafi sold
himself to the West years ago."

Blog post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM

"Lots of criticism from Gaddafi supporters about NATO's aim being 'regime change'.

All decent people, including NATO, want to see Gaddafi gone and his actions investigated, such as alleged theft of Libyan people's national wealth, alleged massacres in the 'peace years', alleged illegal imprisonment, alleged abuse of human rights, alleged support of international terrorism, alleged murder, etc.

But, helping the Libyan people to get rid of Gaddafi so they can investigate his alleged crimes is not regime 'change'. The people of Libya will be the ones who effect regime 'change' when they vote for a democratic government (they could always vote for Gaddafi of course!).

So, Gaddafi supporters, the real target of your criticsim should be the people of Libya. You should be criticising them for wanting to be free from a tyrant and from the fear of persecution and murder they have endured for decades. Your position really is THAT ridiculous. Rather than attacking change, please spend some time explaining to us all why the Libyan people would be better living in fear.

The biggest irony is, of course, that if you were exercising your freedom to criticise Gaddafi in his Libya you would be seeing the inside of Abu Salim prison by now (if you were lucky)."

Blog post


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:23 AM

This is a blog.....of sorts.

I stand by everything I have said here, regime change by force by foreign power is wrong, and forms a precedent to alter the regime in any country on earth

Phrases like to "save civilian life" uttered by the West are hollow words, given our history in foreign affairs.

We moved in like vultures for personal gain and have handed Libya to the Islamists, just as we have done with Iraq.

Just keep watching Egypt you do-gooders!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 01:40 PM

The Algerian foreign ministry has just confirmed that Safiya (wife), Aysha, Hannibal and Mohamed Gaddafi entered Algeria at 08:45 am.

Sky News reporting Khamis in a Land rover hit by Hellfire missile ...... Remains being taken away to be tested.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 02:08 PM

Muammar Gaddafi's wife Safia, his daughter Aisha, and his sons Hannibal and Mohammed,are now in Algeria.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 02:10 PM

Muammar Gaddafi has now joined his family in Algeria.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 02:20 PM

Muammar Gaddafi and his sons Saadi and Seif al-Islam are in the town of Bani Walid south of Tripoli, Italian news agency ANSA said Monday, citing "authoritative Libyan diplomatic sources". ANSA...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 03:54 PM

Well, you got to give the old man credit. He does get around.

This report from Al Jazeera today:

Muammar Gaddafi's second wife, two of his sons and his daughters have entered Algeria, according to the Algerian foreign ministry.

"The wife of Muammar Gaddafi, Safia, his daughter Aisha, and sons Hannibal and Mohammed, accompanied by their children, entered Algeria at 08:45am local time [0745GMT] through the Algeria-Libyan border," the ministry said in a statement on Monday published by the APS news agency.

However, it gave no information on the toppled Libyan leader, whose whereabouts has remained a mystery since rebels seized control of Tripoli, the Libyan capital, last week.


Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM

An opinion piece by Elizabeth Pickworth, a journalist from Australia with a postgraduate degree in International Security majoring in Counterterrorism. She is currently based in the Gulf and undertaking research for her PhD. It questions the support for Gaddafi's regime by people who live outside of Libya and the role played by social networking sites in this support.

An excerpt:

"This leads me to question, how can people who have never lived in exile or fear from such a brutal regime support such a monstrous dictator?

To support Gaddafi's regime without ever thoroughly researching the history, his human rights violations and the plight of the Libyan people, is to entirely discredit every single Libyan of their history and struggle.

The people of Libya have risen up and controlled their own destiny, not relied on a dictator to determine their fate. For this they should be commended. Their struggle for freedom has been a bloody battle but now they can claim back their home.

I question if social networking sites were around during the Rwandan and Bosnian genocide or the time of Maoist China, would the narrative be any different and would so many members of the online community still blindly follow such a brutal dictatorship?"

http://english.libya.tv/?p=11257


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:18 AM

The search for Gadhafi and his sons continues with a confusion of reports, this one from Al Jazeera:

A senior National Transitional Council official in Libya has told Al Jazeera that Saadi Gaddafi, the third son of deposed leader Muammar Gaddafi, is willing to give himself up.

Abdelhakim Belhaj, the NTC's military leader in Tripoli, said on Wednesday that Saddi called him and asked if he could surrender.

In an exclusive interview, Belhaj said the revolutionaries knew for sure where some of the regime leaders were, including unconfirmed reports on where Gaddafi was.

"Gaddafi is now fleeing - and we have a good idea where he is," Ali Tarhouni, a senior NTC minister said earlier, without elaborating. "We don't have any doubt that we will catch him."


There has been speculation that Gaddafi is seeking refuge in Sirte or one of the other remaining regime strongholds, among them the towns of Bani Walid or Sabha.

Al Jazeera's James Bays, reporting from Tripoli said: "We asked him [Belhaj] about the military situation, remaining members of the Gaddafi family, and he said that he believes one of Gaddafi's sons, Saadi, is preparing to surrender.

"According to Belhaj, Saddi doesn't want to leave Libya, he wants to talk to the national council and negotiate his surrender. He thinks he knows the whereabouts of Saddi Gaddafi from the phone call. Also says he believes some senior figures of the government are now ready to surrender, such as the former prime minister.

"Belhaj made a point of saying that any of those who do surrender will be treated properly, and court cases will be held to international norms. Belhaj thought that Muammar Gaddafi is less likely to surrender, but would be treated fairly if he did. He would be held in custody with proper human rights."


But "my sources" confirm that Gadhafi fled to Venezuela at least a month ago.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:52 AM

Information from an "insider":

"daffi and the poor remaining gang stuck in his big underground compound outside sebha.deepest point 190m with two underground heli hangars and a lot of equippment
two scenarios possible
he try to escape in the next days,he need a lot of luck then.
he fight to the end ,that i prefer."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:53 AM

Amnesty International : Black Libyans and Sub Saharan Africans at high risk of abuse by Anti Ghadaffi forces

Claudio Cordone, senior director at Amnesty International, said:

    Amnesty International witnessed one man being hit and one dragged out of his hospital bed to an unknown fate. We have to fear for what may be happening to detainees out of the sight of independent observers.

    The NTC must do more to ensure that their fighters do not abuse detainees, especially the most vulnerable ones such as black Libyans and Sub-Saharan Africans" said Claudio Cordone.

    Fighters engaging in abuses should be immediately removed from active duty, pending investigation. All crimes, no matter who committed them, should be investigated and those responsible brought to justice.


From The Guardian, live reports 1.43


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM

There will be revenge attacks at some point, it is inevitable given the war of extermination that was launched against the people by Gaddafi. The surprising thing is that no one has found any evidence yet for it. This shows exceptional discipline on the part of the revolutionaries to avoid such actions thus far.

What we do have in spades is evidence of Gaddafi forces engaging in massacres in their last few hours of control.

The National Transitional Council has repeatedly warned the fighters against taking revenge against Gaddafi's fighters and only today announced that anyone caught doing so would be prosecuted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:28 PM

"War of extermination".....give us a break !

We facilitated the "war", without our intervention the protests would have been over long ago, with almost no loss of life.

We have cost Libya an estimated 50,000 dead, an infrastructure in ruins, years of tribal conflict and the promise of a "democratic" Islamic Republic to come.

Haven't we done well!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:45 PM

Congressman Dennis Kucinich and and David Welch, the former assistant secretary of state who served under George W Bush and the man who brokered the deal which restored diplomatic relations between the US and Libya in 2008 are implicated in documents found at Gaddafi's spy HQ in Tripoli.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/2011831151258728747.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM

Congressman Dennis Kucinich and and David Welch, the former assistant secretary of state who served under George W Bush and the man who brokered the deal which restored diplomatic relations between the US and Libya in 2008 are implicated in documents found at Gaddafi's spy HQ in Tripoli.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/2011831151258728747.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:58 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun
From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 09:24 AM

I totally disagree with this action.
If there was consistency about american and european interference in other countries internal affairs, it might be more acceptable, but in truth the west does not care one iota about dictators killing their citizens, if they did they would have acted against Mugabe in Zimbabwe,The leader of the Yemen, Pinochet in Chile[ 30 YEARS OR SO AGO].
the west has tolerated gaddaffi for 40 years because it suited them, they do not care a fig about the people of libya
seems I was right


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:17 AM

'There will be revenge attacks at some point, it is inevitable given the war of extermination that was launched against the people by Gaddafi. The surprising thing is that no one has found any evidence yet for it. This shows exceptional discipline on the part of the revolutionaries to avoid such actions thus far.'

Amnesty International was pretty clear in it's assessment. Today the European Commission released this press release, also warning that black Libyans need protection and noting atrocities on both sides.

It's about time Ghadaffi was ousted but lets at least acknowledge that any of our governments' response to a similar armed uprising at home would have been equally untidy. And rebels would not have been able to make any sort of a stand if Nato (and some Arab states) hadn't stepped in. Thirdly, war is an ugly business, let's not pretend the atrocities are all coming from the one side. Both Amnesty and the EU's call for all those responsible for summary executions and other atrocities to be held accountable is a valid and reasonable position that will help post war healing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:21 AM

Akenaton-

"without our intervention the protests would have been over long ago, with almost no loss of life."

Now that's a rosy-colored assumption.

But if it brings comfort to you, so be it.

Wonder what how the Libyans assess the situation now that the major battles appear over and done with.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 03:55 PM

Charley.....do you really think the type of government we are likely to see in Libya will be worth the loss of life and destruction?

The Libyan people are not one homogenous body, but many diverse groupings.....their views on Libya's future are likely to be just as diverse.

Only one thing binds them together.....Islam.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:58 PM

akenaton-

Some like to argue from a "relative body count" and you gave that a brave try, leaving yourself wide open to being accused of naivety. I personally don't think you're that naive but I can't resist challenging your assertion. Want to wage another round of beer?

Oh, and according to Al Jazeera the Rebels are giving Gadhafi loyalists an extra week to lay down their arms:

The council, known by its acronym NTC, has extended the deadline for surrender of Gaddafi's last bastion Sirte by one week, Mohammad Zawawi, an NTC spokesman, said on Thursday.

"We are not in a rush to get in to Sirte. It has no economic importance and we are not going to lose casualties for it. We can cut supplies and wait, even more than a week," he said.

The talks come alongside a blockade of supplies to the town, an NTC official said.

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdul Hamid, reporting from Nawfalia east of Sirte, said: "This is the consequence of ongoing talks between NTC leaders and tribal leaders in Sirte and another nearby town Harawa.


"The idea is to give time to negotiations which is going on between the tribes in Sirte."


Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:28 PM

American college kid joins Libya rebels for 'vacation' "Just thought I'd come check it out, dudes"

Article


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 02:43 AM

If Col Gadaffi had attempted to do such a thing in Benghazi, his soldiers would have been blown to pieces by NATO air strikes.

Is starving people out not a crime? What about the civilians?

Its all a sick joke......Line up for your oil contracts!

ut these "rights" can be withdrawn as quickly as they are granted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 03:20 AM

But these "rights" can be withdrawn as quickly as they are granted.

Very true, which is why the It was all about the oil argument is so ridiculous whether it be Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, etc.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 09:16 AM

akenaton-

"If Col Gadaffi had attempted to do such a thing in Benghazi, his soldiers would have been blown to pieces by NATO air strikes."

I guess that is your way of gracefully conceding that NATO intervention was essential for saving lives? As I recall Gadhafi's soldiers had actually done several forays into Benghazi before the NATO air strikes rolled them back.

But I do agree that there is no guarantee that the government that emerges from the present civil war in Libya will be much of an improvement. But it's a start, a resetting in what I hope is a general trend toward more participatory government worldwide.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM

"blown to pieces"

Wrong again.   Do you ever think? Airstrikes are a very blunt tool, above all since NATO was trying hard to avoid civilian casualties.    Made especially difficult since Gaddafi had taken to having his soldiers wear the same non-uniforms as the rebels.

And Gadhafi had no problem with such things as putting children on tanks he wanted to protect.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:41 AM

If anyone wants to see some of what was going on behind the scenes by Gadhafi's spying network, there's now a wealth of new information captured and being accessed by Rebels and the media in Tripoli (Al Jazeera): click here for report!

I find these reports fascinating.

Here's the teaser quote:

"Deposed Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi had spies at the highest levels of the rebel movement at least until the fall of Tripoli, according to a top-secret document that appears to be a briefing for Libyan intelligence mastermind Abdullah Senussi."

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 06:01 PM

Charley, you might like this:

By Associated Press, Published:
August 24BENGHAZI, Libya — They called it Operation Mermaid Dawn, a stealth
plan coordinated by sleeper cells, Libyan rebels, and NATO to snatch the
capital from the Moammar Gadhafi's regime's hands.

It began three months ago when groups of young men left their homes in Tripoli
and traveled to train in Benghazi with ex-military soldiers.

"They went back to Tripoli and waited; they became sleeper cells,"
said military spokesman Fadlallah Haroun, who helped organize the operation.

Operation Mermaid Dawn began on the night of August 21 and took the world by
surprise as the rebels sped into the capital and celebrated in Green Square
with almost no resistance from pro-Gadhafi forces.

Haroun said about 150 men rose up from inside Tripoli, blocking streets,
engaging in armed street fights with Gadhafi brigades, and taking over their
streets with check points.

He said another 200 men were from Misrata.

But why did the armed Gadhafi troops melt away when the rebels drove through?

Fathi Baja, head of the rebel leadership's political committee, said it was all
thanks to a deal cut with the head of the batallion in charge of protecting
Tripoli's gates, the Mohammed Megrayef Brigade.

His name was Mohammed Eshkal and he was very close to Gadhafi and his family.
Baja said Gadhafi had ordered the death of his cousin twenty years ago.

"Eshkal carried a grudge in his heart against Gadhafi for 20 years, and he
made a deal with the NTC — when the zero hour approached he would hand the city
over to the rebels," said Haroun.

"Eshkal didn't care much about politics" said Haroun. "He wanted
to take a personal revenge from Gadhafi and when he saw a chance that he will
fall, he just let it happen."

Haroun said that he didn't trust any of the defectors who left Gadhafi's side
so close to August 20, but Eshkal was living for the day he could pay back
Gaddafi..

Haroun said NATO was in contact with the rebel leadership in Benghazi and were
aware of the date of Operation Mermaid Dawn.

"Honestly, NATO played a very big role in liberating Tripoli — they bombed
all the main locations that we couldn't handle with our light weapons,"
said Harouin.

Analysts have noted that as time went on, NATO airstrikes became more and more
precise and there was less and less collateral damage, indicating the presence
of air controllers on the battlefields.

Targeted bombings launched methodical strikes on Gadhafi's crucial
communications facilities and weapons caches. An increasing number of American
hunter-killer drones provided round-the-clock surveillance as the rebels
advanced.

Diplomats acknowledge that covert teams from France, Britain and some East
European states provided critical assistance.

The assistance included logisticians, security advisers and forward air
controllers for the rebel army, as well as intelligence operatives, damage
assessment analysts and other experts, according to a diplomat based at NATO's
headquarters in Brussels. The diplomat spoke on condition of anonymity due to
the sensitivity of the issue.

Foreign military advisers on the ground provided key real-time intelligence to
the rebels, enabling them to maximize their limited firepower against the
enemy. One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss
intelligence matters, said the Qatari military led the way, augmented later by
French, Italian and British military advisers. This effort had a multiple
purpose, not only assisting the rebels but monitoring their ranks and watching
for any al-Qaida elements trying to infiltrate or influence the rebellion.

Bolstering the intelligence on the ground was an escalating surveillance and
targeting campaign in the skies above. Armed U.S. Predator drones helped to
clear a path for the rebels to advance.

Baja said as the time for Operation Mermaid Dawn came close to execution, NATO
began to intensify their bombing campaign at Bab al-Azizya and near jails where
weapons were stored and political prisoners were held.

And then the people rose up


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 10:44 AM

bobad-

That is the kind of detail I love to gain access to. The report helps make sense out of what appears to be chaos.

It's a miracle that Operation Mermaid Dawn wasn't compromised by spies within the Rebel command. Bet there were some close calls.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM

For those who steal admire Gadhafi's "socialist utopia", you might want to review (or not) some of the correspondence between his security chief and the CIA and M-16 that have been collected from his abandoned office in Tripoli by Human Rights Watch (from Al Jazeera): click here for update!

Here's a teaser quote:

Documents found in the abandoned Tripoli office of Muammar Gaddafi's former foreign minister and intelligence chief indicate that US and British spy agencies helped his regime persecute Libyan dissidents, Human Rights Watch said.

The documents were uncovered by the human rights activist group in abandoned offices once occupied by Moussa Koussa, one of Gaddafi's closest associates who left Libya for the UK in February as the uprising against the now-toppled Libyan leader began.

The group said on Saturday it had uncovered hundreds of letters between the US's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the UK's MI6 secret service and Koussa, who is now believed to be in Qatar.


But, hey, Gadhafi kept the trains running on schedule!

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:13 AM

Charley, take a look at this spellbinding account from one of Gaddafi's "nuns", one of his cadre of female attendants cum bodyguards as she unburdens herself after 30 years of servitude to him: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/2MRUQmTBXeld/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:11 AM

Now the truth of our involvement is beginning to surface, both the US and the UK were assisting the Col in supressing Islamism in Libya...rendition, torture etc.

They quickly sussed which way the wind was blowing after Moubarik fell in Egypt and jumped ship, hoping to curry favour with the new Islamist controlled regime, to safeguard oil rights...So much for altruism!!....It wont work, these people used us against their enemy Col Gadaffi and soon we will be booted out.

What a shower of fucking simpletons!
As I said earlier, we hae been completely outflanked


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

Well Ake, maybe if your self titled Col. was not such a bloodthirsty, murderous, thieving bastard his people may not have felt compelled to get rid of him. These despots never do learn much from history do they.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 10:53 AM

akenaton-

Gadhafi played everyone to his benefit, until the end-game. I would think that you'd get that.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM

I dont care about Gadaffi and his regime Charley, its what our "murderous bastards" are up to that bothers me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 03:51 PM

akenaton-

Well, I guess that's your graceful way of conceding he wasn't the most progressive despot in the world. I'll accept that.

So when should we release our "murderous bastards" to do their bloody work? Would you suggest Syria?

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 04:07 PM

Well now, THIS is a surprising turn of events. MY preface to this is that BP started all this shite (as some of you know from reading my posts) because of their problems in the Gulf Oil Spill and the fact that Quackdaffy wouldn't let them renegotiate the contract so they made a deal elsewhere to usurp Quackdaffy and... you know.

BUT, this really floors me... kinda made me smile a tad even tho maybe it it NOT good...

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libya's new leadership has evidence Muammar Gaddafi bought arms from companies in China and Western countries in defiance of U.N. sanctions and now plans legal and diplomatic action, a military spokesman said in Tripoli on Monday.

"We'll be going through legal channels, through international courts, as well as the United Nations itself," Abdul Rahman Busin told Reuters. "Either to prosecute them or to come to a diplomatic understanding."

He did not specify further what action might be taken against firms, individuals or states involved in any smuggling.

"We have gathered evidence from many sources, including the main documents that were gathered here in Tripoli, that point the finger at several countries that had been supplying Gaddafi with weapons and arms, as well as intelligence officers," he said.

"They had their own mercenaries who were helping them, but whether the mercenaries were directly linked to governments or (were) private individuals is still unclear," Busin added.

Earlier on Monday, China responded to the publication by a newspaper of documents that appeared to show Chinese state firms offered Gaddafi weaponry by confirming some staff had met Libyan envoys in July but without the government's knowledge.

"We've been gathering information for months now," Busin said. He declined to name the nationalities of those suspected of trying to supply Gaddafi but confirmed some were Chinese and that the proposed route for imports passed through Algeria.

Asked if Westerners also offered arms, he said they did.

It was unclear whether any Chinese weapons reached Libya.

Busin said: "The documentation ... specified the quantities, amounts, types and the route for it to come in, which was through Algeria.

"The total price of the actual order was near $200 million," he added, saying it included arms that are familiar from the Libyan war, including ammunition, pistols, automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and rockets.

"It was a very long list," he said.

"NO DISCRIMINATION"

Asked which firms were involved in selling weapons to Gaddafi, he said he did not know but believed it would be possible to identify them: "We don't actually have a list of companies. But there are only so many companies in the world that produce arms still. That narrows it down quite a lot."

A key issue for China and other countries which did not join the Western-led drive to support the uprising in Libya is whether the new authorities may penalise them in the awarding of oil and reconstruction contracts.

Asked whether revelations of arms sales could cost any countries deals, Busin said that would be for others to say.

Other officials have said that Libya's new authorities would work with any governments which now supported them.

Aref el-Nayed, a senior NTC official and director of a unit known as the Libyan Stabilisation Team, told Reuters on Monday that this would remain the policy:

"Free Libya is keen on great relations with all of humanity," he said. "Different countries had different attitudes towards the Gaddafi regime. The NTC will not be discriminatory because of this."

He added: "China is a very important member of the international community and we look forward to great relations with China and we look forward to great relations with Russia and all other countries. What is important is that all countries have now entered this consensus (supporting the NTC) and it is from this baseline that we will build our relations."

(Writing by Alastair Macdonald; editing by Myra MacDonald)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

No, things are never what they seem, and our biggest danger is in the construction of an Islamist axis in the middle East and North Africa.In Libya they are already positioning themselves.

Our murderous bastards are not THAT stupid.

I never said that the Col was a perfect leader of his people, just slightly better than the others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM

Here's another "hat trick" being exercised by Gadhafi. A large armored convoy of military vehicles has been reported as having crossed into Niger (Al Jazeera): click here for update!

"Monday's convoy included officers from Libya's southern army battalions and pro-Gaddafi Tuareg fighters, and likely crossed from Libya into Algeria before entering Niger, the sources said."

It's unclear whether Gadhafi or his sons are in this convoy but it is currently being escorted through the country by Niger army units toward the border of "Burkina Faso, a landlocked West African state which has offered Gaddafi and his family asylum."

The remaining question: who is making and producing the blockbuster film?

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 05:48 PM

Charley, this article from Reuters gives more insider, behind the scenes details of the planning and execution of Operation Mermaid Dawn, well worth a read: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/06/us-libya-endgame-idUSTRE7853C520110906


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:17 PM

Having been an avid reader of "Spy vrs. Spy" in Mad Magazine, I'm beginning to wonder if the CIA/MI-6 aren't executing a sting operation in the Niger.

As the Gadhafi loyalists cross the border, they're harvested by the CIA Niger agents, along with their swag, and "encouraged" to call their friends still in Libya to join the party.

I'm probably giving the CIA/MI-6 too much credit.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:07 AM

Gaddafi is surrounded, says the new Council.    40 mile radius.   They would not say where in Libya he is, but it is in Libya.    Source:   AP 7 Sept 2011.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:20 PM

France will now be able to get 35 per cent of libyas oil, what a surprise..COULD THIS REALLY BE WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT, the west tolerated gaddaffi for 40 years, the west does not go in and interfrere in zimbabwe, why.. no oil


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:51 PM

That Gadhafi is trapped may be more wistful thinking on the part of the Rebels, or disinformation, or there may be some truth to their belief (from Al Jazeera):

Libyan fighters are claiming to have surrounded Muammar Gaddafi within a 60km radius and insist it is matter of time before the toppled leader is captured or killed.

Anis Sharif, a spokesman for Tripoli's new military council, however would not say where exactly Gaddafi had been found.

But amid the continuing hunt for the fugitive leader and his sons, he said Gaddafi had been tracked using high technology and human intelligence. "He can't get out," he said on Wednesday.

Gaddafi, who was removed from power in August after an uprising against his rule, is believed to be travelling in a convoy of about 10 cars and may be using a tent as shelter, Hisham Buhagiar, who is co-ordinating the National Transitional Council's [NTC] efforts to find the former Libyan leader, said.


Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:54 PM

Thank you, Mr. Broken Record.

For the n'th time, Gaddafi was always more than willing to sell Libya's oil.

So your argument, yet again, is bankrupt.

What a surprise.

Perhaps you'd like to return to folk music.   The chances are rather good you know more about that than about foreign policy.    That is, more than zero.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:55 PM

That was of course in response to "35%" etc.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:48 AM

Ron....It is a tangled web, and not as simple as you suppose.

Western nations, especially the UK, were up to their necks in supporting The Col in his battle agaianst Islamic extremists.....In return for this support they were granted some rights over Libyan Oil.    Rights to help in developement and rights to purchase.

Their support included security information on dissidents in the West and the supply of suspects for "rendition" and torture.

After the "Arab Spring" uprisings in Egypt etc, the British and French governments realised that they were about to be exposed and took the view that they would assist in the removal of Gadaffi in an attemped to ingratiate themselves with the new regime and retain the "rights" they so badly need.

Unfortunately this was rather shortsighted, as we now have the spectre of Islamism all over the area and in all probability these "rights" will be used by the Islamists as bargaining chips in the future.

Basically, we are fucked!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:10 AM

Hope for a moderate future in Libya:

"What we know of the top rebel leadership is also reasonably encouraging.
Mahmoud Jibril, the acting prime minister of the rebels' Transitional
National Council, earned his doctorate from the University of Pittsburgh
and taught there, too. As for Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, the acting chairman
of the council, he is a former justice minister who challenged Colonel
Qaddafi by calling for the release of political prisoners. Ali Tarhouni,
the finance minister, is a former economist at the University of
Washington.

Some Americans have fretted that Islamic
extremists will take over Libya, but very few of the rebel leaders have
been associated with Islamic fundamentalism. One exception is Abdel
Hakim Belhaj, a military commander in Tripoli, who says he was tortured
by the CIA in 2004. Yet he told my Times colleague Rod Nordland that all
is forgiven and that he appreciates the American role in the Libyan
revolution.

Frankly, any representative Libyan government
needs to include fundamentalists like Mr. Belhaj, who were particularly
brave in standing up to the Gaddafi regime. The mood in Libya is both
pro-Islam and pro-Western."

Nicholas Kristof
NY Times


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:11 AM

Again from Nicholas Kristof:

"What's particularly impressive is the paucity of revenge killings and
looting in Tripoli, the capital. There have been a few incidents in
which rebel soldiers apparently executed prisoners, and black Africans
have been treated abysmally (they are accused of being mercenaries for
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi). But the Libyans who served in that hated
regime mostly have not been molested.

I saw many Libyans
fleeing for Tunisia, and, presumably, many of them were Gaddafi
loyalists. But rebels did not hinder them at checkpoints or pilfer their
belongings. And, as far as I could tell, the homes and luxury vehicles
the loyalists left behind have been mostly untouched by neighbors and
rebels alike.

In addition, I went through dozens of armed
rebel checkpoints and was never once asked for a "baksheesh," meaning
bribe or gift.



Finding hope in Libya - an eyewitness account"




by NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 19 February 4:18 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.