Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?

Subject: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 01:25 PM

I've been looking at Martin's 000-28ec guitar (Eric Clapton signature model 000-28). It seems very good to me, nice lively tone, perhaps a bit pricey. I like the modestly restrained decorations, as I generally don't go for guitars that are too flashy looking.

Does anyone else here have an opinion to offer about these guitars? Just wondered what other people think of them.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM

I'm a great believer in not offering my opinion of anyone else's guitar. I will say this, though: I tried two different 000-28VS guitars in a store, each one 5-to-10 years old. To me, one sounded good, the other sounded great (and I bought it). But it didn't happen right away. I went back to the store three or four times over a month to play the "great" guitar. I loved the guitar immediately but the price was an issue. You may want to give yourself some time with the guitar you like. The downside is, of course, that someone else might buy it. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 01:54 PM

One of their most inconsistent models and definitely one that should NOT be purchased sight unseen. Very hit and miss. Some can be very good whiles others are mediocre at best. The Clapton name sells a lot of this model for the Martin Guitar Company - and people buy into it.

Some say the reason for the inconsistency on this model is the fact that they are a little overbuilt, and braced a tad too heavily. I have owned 1 (later sold), and played at least a dozen. Most were just okay. The one I owned I would deem as "good" ... but I have yet to play one that I would consider "exceptional". Beauty however is in the ear of the beholder. (Martin makes other models that tend to be more consistently good to excellent sounding.)

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 02:11 PM

Good info there. Thanks! I did think that the one I played was very good, but it's interesting to hear how much they can vary in quality.

If I am interested in a guitar, I don't buy it right away. I usually go back 3 or 4 times over a period of maybe a month or more and keep trying it and comparing it to other guitars.

If someone else buys it in the meantime...okay. ;-) There will be plenty more great guitars anyway.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 02:26 PM

If you can find one, as they were only made from 1999 - 2007 (about 987 in total) go play a Martin OM-18V. You'll love it! It's head and shoulders above a OOO-28EC.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: GUEST,Stan
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 04:15 PM

I got a 00028 in the 70s. It was a lovely guitar and guitars from that period seem to attract prices of £2000 + on ebay. Online i find that the 00028 of today has a reputation of being heavier, particularly the signature ones. Have you had the one you want in your hands? You should, and I would recommend that you listen to it being played by someone else as well. The better, the better.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM

I mentioned on the D-21 thread that I once compared a 000-28EC and an OM-21 and found the OM-21 far superior.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 04:44 PM

I'm a big fan of the OM series by Martin or Collings. I hope you have a chance to make an A/B comparison between the two sizes. To my ears the OM's have a little more presence.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 06:21 PM

The OM is a jumbo body guitar, right? So it should have more base end for sure. I have a Martin SWJGT here (Smart Wood Jumbo Gloss Top with Cherry back and sides) that was made in 2005, I think, and it's got a lovely sound. It's not quite as powerful as the HD-28, but it's very nice. I'm pretty sure that the SWJGT is an OM-body size guitar. It's slightly wider across the lower bout than a D-28.

Yes, Stan, I have played the 000-28 guitar in question a couple of times now. I like it...but still haven't quite figured out where it stands in relation to certain other possibilities.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 06:45 PM

The OM is the same size as a a Martin OOO.


                                
OOO (also OM)
Total Length        39 13/16"                39 5/8"                
Body Length        19 3/8"                20 9/16"                
Body Width        15"                15"                
Body Depth        4 1/8"                4 1/8"                


The Jumbo is 2 sizes bigger;

J
Total Length        40 5/8"        41 7/8"                        
Body Length        20 1/8"        20 1/8"                        
Body Width        16"        16"                        
Body Depth        4 7/8"        4 7/8"                        

For all the specs see here;

Martin Technical Specifications


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 07:27 PM

I don't have one, but the EC is attractive in that it combines the short scale of the standard 000 with the 1 3/4" nut width of the OM. Both of those are selling points as one ages and the hands stiffen up.

Peter

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 07:36 PM

The OM has the identical body shape as a 000.
The only different is the neck scale.
25 + 1/4 " on an OM ... and 24 + 3/4" on a 000.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 12:53 AM

Oh, I see. Well, I really like the 1 3/4" dimension at the nut. It's better for chording and fingerpicking.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Hamish
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 03:27 AM

About ten years ago I went into Ivor Marraints in London. They have a fine range of very nice guitars. I decided to just play a few without looking at the make or model. Some were good, some were excellent and then there was one that just went "Kapowee!". Simply gorgeous. Played like a dream and really spoke to me. It was, you guessed it, an 000-28ec. I was sort of disappointed in a way. I've always been sceptical of the concept of signature models, cashing in on an artist's name most of whom don't exactly need any more money. But this was quite simply and by some distance the most sublime guitar in the shop that day.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 04:16 AM

"Oh, I see. Well, I really like the 1 3/4" dimension at the nut. It's better for chording and fingerpicking.

The OM's have the 1-3/4" nut. The OOO's usually have 1-11/16", the EC is an exception.

I have an OM-28 Marquis, it sounds far better than any OOO-28EC I've ever played or heard - not 'boxy' like the EC, and better bass, generally a richer sound (as you would probably expect from the longer scale and adirondack top). If a Marquis is too dear, I'd recommend the OM-28V, or failing that, the OM-21 (a 'Special' is even better if you can find one). All great guitars.

Hamish, I played a couple of Brooks at IM last year - they were jaw-dropping! Keep well fella! :0)

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 05:03 AM

These things are, of course, all a matter of individual opinion. As with most things, in the world of the Guitar-Nerd one nerd's meat is another nerd's poison - just the way it is (and should be).

Disclaimer: IMHO, YMMV etc.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 12:50 PM

What does YMMV mean?

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 12:51 PM

Your mileage may vary.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 09:22 PM

Ah. Thanks.

Well, the issue of the 000-28ec is settled. I went back to play it one more time and took along the finest guitar player I know. We played that one and about every other top end guitar they had in the store, and we each sat and listened to the other guy play them, and shared our opinions.

000-28ec : Very nice guitar, quite a good sound, nice feel...but...

There was a rosewood & spruce Taylor GS-8 that blew it right out of the water. And several other Taylors that were markedly superior to it, and cost less.

And there was a Martin D-41 that blew it out of the water as well.

The 2 best guitars in the store were definitely the Martin D-41, and the Taylor GS-8. We both sort of preferred the Taylor over the D-41, by the narrowest of margins, but they were both absolutely great.

The 000-28ec was definitely nice, but not in their league at all.

The least expensive of the three by far was the Taylor GS-8 with rosewood back and sides, and I'd say it was the best one too. Congratulations to Taylor.

Interestingly enough, my buddy used to dislike Taylors on principle, saying they didn't have enough volume or bottom end. That certainly was not the case with this one today...or with several of its near cousins. He has changed his opinion about Taylor guitars of late.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:46 AM

Usually when people ask for opinions on guitars on here, it's some crashing bore who just has to tell everyone they've bought a new Martin. As under the present UK dictatorship I'll never be able to afford one, I can offer no opinion.
p/s
and don't you just hate folk who reply to a question just to let you know they haven't got an opinion!

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:00 PM

Hawk,
    OK, fine, but don't leave us in suspense.
did you buy the Taylor? Inquiring minds want to know.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:24 PM

Desi C - No, I do not hate you for posting here and not offering an opinion. ;-)

Cool Beans - I didn't buy the Taylor....yet. For one thing, I don't need it. So I'm in no rush to buy it. I might buy it at some point, but that's hard to say.

The thing with the Martin 000-28ec was, I loved the look of it so much, and the general setup, so I was very tempted to buy it if the sound of it went high enough up the comparative scale. Having tried out all those other guitars against it, I decided that the 000-28ec did not go high enough up on that comparative sound scale to justify spending that kind of money...specially when I don't need it. I already have a couple of great guitars that sound better than it does and are totally satisfactory in every way.

But I'm glad I tried it and all the other guitars, because just checking them out and finding out more about them makes for much enjoyment and it helps increase my knowledge of what's out there.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:30 PM

Refresh my memory - what do you play now? And do you finger pick a lot or mostly strum?

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:13 PM

Hi, Wesley. What I play now is a Martin HD-28 which is absolutely great. A Taylor GC-Koa Limited Edition which is also absolutely great...but specially good for fingerpicking. And a Martin SWJGT (Smart Wood Jumbo Gloss Top with cherry back and sides) which I got dirt cheap at a local Hock Shop...just got lucky on that one.

The loudest is the HD-28, great all-purpose guitar, typical big dreadnought sound. The sweetest is the Taylor, works well for everthing, but super for fingerpicking. The mellowest is the SWJGT, and it's good right across the range of bass to treble.

They're all good for what I do.

My playing style is a mix of strumming and picking...carter picking, travis picking, long strums, etc. I play with my fingernails, fairly long nails, usually do the alternating thumb on the bass and use 2 or 3 fingers on the treble strings. I play from light to medium volume mostly, seldom really drive the strings HARD like I've seen some flatpick players do. It's a playing style that doesn't tend to hit or abraid the top of the guitar at all, so I don't really require a pickguard to protect the instrument.

I like a slightly wider neck (1 3/4" at the nut) if I can get it. Makes for cleaner fingering and playing, I find.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:46 AM

Yeah with that combination of instruments it sounds like you pretty much have all of your bases covered. Do you plug any of them in or just use a mic when you play out?

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:01 AM

Being an inveterate snob and a chip on both shoulders (made of solid woods), I covered my bases with Martin.

The 000 (they're zeroes, not the letter Os) 28 is sublime for finger picking - that said I can vouch for Backwoodsman's OM, it sounds lovely.

The D-28 is great for both finger picking AND plectrum (pick) playing.

The D12-28 fulfills my need to make NOISE, but is particularly nice when played gently using the flatpick (a soft one).

Must admit the EC didn't appeal as the extra expense is not justified for one such as I.

But, who gives a damn, it's horses for courses and whatever floats your boat (I love metaphors) is good enough. If you're paying the bills, you can have what you like/can afford.

Never forget, whatever you've got . . . enjoy it.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:23 AM

I appreciate your gracious attitide Little Hawk, my post was in jest and largely out of sheer jealousy as I wish I owned a Martin ;)

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:21 PM

I used to be in that position too, Desi. ;-) The first Martin I bought (a used D-28) cost $500, but that was a long time ago, so it was a fair bit of cash. Since then I've played Martins, Yamahas, Washburns, Takamines, Taylors, a Godin, a Norman, a Guild, and probably a few others I don't even remember at the moment. They all had something that interested me at the time, and they came and went as better ones came along. One's tastes keep getting more expensive as the years go by and the subtleties of the instrument become more apparent. You get so you can hear the subtle differences in a way that you didn't when you started out.

There's no reason that one MUST have an expensive guitar like a Martin, because there are always a few gems out there in the cheaper makes...you just have to hunt around enough till you find one that rings true. I've played Yamahas that were terrific. Most Takamines are really poor acoustic guitars, in my opinion...but...there are a few that are very good. Some Seagull guitars are really good...I just don't much like the way they look.

Wesley - The HD-28 has a passive pickup in it (Fishman) and I'll sometimes put it through a preamp, if necessary. The Taylor has their usual excellent active pickup system installed. The SWJGT has a passive Fishman pickup same as the one in the HD-28. Sometimes I'll play through microphones, sometimes I'll use the pickups, depends on the situation.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:34 PM

I heard a story today about a different performer's model Martin -- the Joan Baez. When it was being planned, they took her original and disassembled it to measure each brace, etc., then reassembled it and gave it back. They said the new ones were exactly the same (save for age) -- even to the inscription on the inside of the top.

"Inscription?" she said.

"Yes. It was probably a repairman from earlier in its career. He wrote, 'Too bad you're a Communist!' inside it."

That's the story I was told, anyway. It might be false. It might even be true. Hell, Louis Armstrong probably didn't even talk about a horse singing, either.

Bob

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:01 PM

That story is true. You can look it up on Wickipedia, in fact. Martin was actually doing some repairs on Joan's vintage 0-45 when they discovered that some Martin repairman at an earlier date had written on the underide of the top "Too bad you're a Communist!" They were pretty upset and embarrassed when they discovered it, and phoned her up with some trepidation to apologize for it. When the Martin rep who phoned her explained the situation there was a long silence on the other end of the line....and then she burst out laughing.

With Joan's permission, Martin issued a commemorative run of only 58 of those same model guitars in 1998 as the "0-45jb" (for Joan Baez), and they put a little brass plaque inside under the top with the "Too bad you're a Communist" inscription on it.

Once again, Joan's sense of humour sees her through. ;-)

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:21 PM

I'm not surprised she laughed.

When you're that good and can sing like that what's going to hurt you?

Trouble is I reckon my guitars have got 'You're a prat' written on the inside ;o)

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:38 PM

LOL! I love that expression. "prat" ;-D It really gets the idea across, somehow.

I haven't checked yet to see if anything's been written under the top of any of my guitars. Maybe I should.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: reggie miles
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 01:35 AM

I used to own a 00028 with an OM scale length from 1929. It was the single best guitar that I've ever had in my possession. It was this guitar that made me realize, for the first time, that a great instrument can truly magnify your abilities. Before that time, I had no real understanding concerning the affect that a great instrument can have regarding one's playing ability.

It was also the one truly fine instruments, that I've had the pleasure of owning, that got away. I foolishly offered it on consignment to an unscrupulous dealer. When my consignment contract was up, I immediately called and asked for my guitar back and he refused to send it back to me. Instead, I received a check. That model guitar is now one of the most highly sought after instruments that Martin has ever made. It ranges in price to about 60,000.

The thing about the copies of that guitar that Martin and others have been making is just what Justa Picker has already mentioned. They are all overbuilt and braced far too heavily.

My Martin had back bracing that was tall thin and scalloped much like a suspension bridge. If you look at what so many of the modern copies offer, it is nothing like that. That's why they don't sound good. They can't sound good being over braced and over built.

I'm not sure why they over brace them. Maybe they think that over building them will help their guitars last longer. I notice that a lot of folks toss around the banter, that once it ages it will sound better and maybe these modern makers want their guitars to last until they actually start to sound better. Well, ya know what? I don't want to have to wait around for 50 or 100 years for my guitar to maybe start to sound better. I want it to sound really good right now, not at some future unknown date.

A lot of those copying the older models today hype their instruments as looking just like the original but the problem is that they sound nothing like the original. If you want to make guitars that sound good, you don't reproduce something simply because it looks like something that once sounded sweet. You play with the design until it actually works to create a better sounding instrument. Many makers these days are content to settle for good enough, to sell image instead of craftsmanship. Instead of pushing the envelope of instrument design to truly make amazing sounding instruments, they slap some celebrity's name on it so they can use star power to get the instrument out the door. It's a cheesy gimic but one that is common in today's marketplace. IMHO

"Hey, look! That movie star is wearing, smoking, drinking, driving, playing ______ (fill in the blank with any of a gajillion products that makers are trying to sell) If I wanna be cool, I'd better wear, smoke, drink, drive and play _____"

I check each time I've seen the copies around and so far no one has managed to get it right.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:10 PM

Yes, they have to be braced and built as the old ones were or you won't get the same sound. I have no doubt that it's possible to build instruments now that are as good as any of those vintage guitars were (are), but you have to do it right, that's all.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:26 PM

I looked at the 000-28ec a couple years ago when I wanted to upgrade my guitar. It was all right, but not earth shattering. Then I heard Nick Apollonio was designing a new class of 6s, and I took a chance on one of those. MUCH cheaper than the Martin, and I can honestly say it's one of the best guitars I've ever played, let alone owned. And I've played some NICE guitars.

LH, I have a similar playing style - fingernails on string, with a mix of styles.

Dan

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:34 PM

I wish I lived closer to Nick's location, Dan. I like to play guitars some before I decide to buy them. I have no doubt his are among the very best.

Subject: RE: Martin 000-28ec guitar - opinions?
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:43 PM

He'll send them on approval. You risk only the cost of shipping.

I feel like I should include a disclaimer that this is not a paid ad....

Dan