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Medieval Spring

Jack Blandiver 23 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Mar 11 - 11:58 AM
RunrigFan 23 Mar 11 - 02:14 PM
RunrigFan 23 Mar 11 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 23 Mar 11 - 03:36 PM
katlaughing 23 Mar 11 - 03:58 PM
RunrigFan 23 Mar 11 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Mar 11 - 10:14 PM
katlaughing 23 Mar 11 - 11:17 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 24 Mar 11 - 05:28 AM
GUEST,leeneia 24 Mar 11 - 10:24 AM
Jack Blandiver 24 Mar 11 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,leeneia 24 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 25 Mar 11 - 05:28 AM
Edthefolkie 25 Mar 11 - 08:33 AM
Jack Campin 25 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 25 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM
Edthefolkie 26 Mar 11 - 04:08 PM
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Subject: Medieval Spring
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM

Just uploaded our version of Veris Dulcis in Tempore ontop Soundcloud; nice wee spring groove celebrating the hornier aspects of Medieval secular verse...

http://soundcloud.com/rapunzel-and-sedayne/verisdulcis09

You get the words as well - Latin and in translation (by me...)

Dulcis Amor!


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 11:58 AM

Thanks. I enjoyed listening to it.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: RunrigFan
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 02:14 PM

Corvus Corax do 2 versions ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCv0cDLfqQE

There is the other version but isnt on youtube


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: RunrigFan
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 02:17 PM

1993 Version

http://filesocial.com/4n7t7hq


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 03:36 PM

The Clemencic Consort had them covered nicely as well; the later melody (as doone by Corvus Corax in both these versions) I can't find on line anywhere, but the older melody features here in a key arrangement from 1975:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_ZAgl32_4


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 03:58 PM

For some reason the first one won't play for me using Firefox. I see it and click on the arrow which then turns to pause. Will try the others and a dif. browser, later.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: RunrigFan
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 04:06 PM

Kathm is it my first youtube link; if so just go youtube and put corvus corax veris dulcis


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 10:14 PM

Where did you find the music for that, Suibhne?


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 11:17 PM

RF, thanks! Got it and love it!


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 05:28 AM

We had the melody from various sources, Clemencic and elsewhere, and though we took a different approach, still hung onto the parallel thirds for the chorus. In other words, we nabbed it off a record - common practise with Medieval practitioners today, though most of them still boast of direct access to the MS. That melody also crops up on Jordi Savall's Le Royaume Oublie where it's sourced to an unnamed codex dated 1010. Not sure how it relates to the other melody doing the rounds though the old Clemencic arrangement (c. 1975) brings out the erotic subtleties of the lyric entirely missed by Corvus Corax et al.

Do you remember Martin Best? He was a bit of a medieval music star in England back in the late 70s, early 80s recording a number of very accessible albums that were sniffed at in more serious quarters. MB had a way of using his own 'free verse' translations of the medieval lyrics as part of the peformances which yielded some great results. Many of his albums are still available repackaged on CD, though his best work was done for the BBC with some classic recordings from the Proms and York Early Music Festival - the one on Riquier I remember with great affection. Not sure if he ever did Veris Dulcis but my own free versifying here is an affectionate tribute, as well as a way exploring the various nuances of the Latin verse that can be so very easily overlooked.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 10:24 AM

Thanks for the info. I'll keep Martin Best in mind.

I agree with you that given the uncertainties of old manuscripts and given the tendency of musicians to vary things, that there is plenty of room for variation in how we do the pieces today.

They may have been played differently in every valley and in every great house.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 12:30 PM

Ah, but then again I've got a few friends in high places who might verify things that might be in doubt. Like traditional material, the creativity lies in what you do with it & how you might approach a song like that, which lives and breathes in all sorts of ways. Historical accuracy? Well - who can say, but that's always a consideration, but I might shy away from claiming absolute authenticity even though it's always a distinct possibility!

After all, the Medieval Tradition is only a little older than the Folk Revival - it comes in waves and these days there are Thousands of people doing it in all sorts of ways, from scholars, enthusiasts, costumed re-enactors, modernists, post-modernist, purists, experimentalists, folk acts, classical ensembles...

*

For Martin Best, look out for the Martin Best Mediaeval Ensemble. There's not much on YouTube, but there is this which is typical of his approach of music & spoken word:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZZ0KrhEyQw

The text is from Adam John Munthe's historical novel A Note that Breaks the Silence. A little brash for my tastes; also on YouTube you can watch the entire concert of Jordi Savall's recent project dealing with the music of the Cathars and of the Albigensian crusude which is of a different order somehow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1wY8Idr1gU

The spoken intro is by Rene Zosso, a lifelong hero of mine & one of the key voices of European Medieval Music. On the CD, mentioned above, Veris Dulcis is included in this opening sequence.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 06:15 PM

Thanks for the new links and info.

I searched the web for an image of the music from the MS. Found a few illuminations, but no music.

It would be interesting to see what it looked like.


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 05:28 AM

I'll see what I can do...


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 08:33 AM

Thanks for remining me about Martin Best, Suibhne!

I simply cannot understand why some people got snotty about his approach, since the whole Early Music thing is, to an extent, a late 20th Century construct (ducks to avoid hurled nakers).

I bought his "The Last of the Troubadours" and "The Dante Troubadours" on vinyl in about 1982, after a fantastic Provençal hol. For them as doesn't know, these albums are on the Nimbus label and play at 45 rpm. This wheeze was used to sort of get more bandwith into the grooves. It certainly worked - one would be enjoying Martin quietly playing the oudh or whatever, whereupon somebody would bash a big drum, we would spill our glasses of red and the cats would go into orbit. Surprisingly, the stylus would carry on tracking quite happily and me old Quad 405 merely sneered at the colossal power spike.

No wonder Nimbus seems to have gone the way of all flesh though......


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM

Nimbus seems to have gone the way of all flesh though......

They haven't:

http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/index.html


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM

Those old Nimbus 45 album pressings are the stuff of legend! They were the first CD manufacturers too weren't they?


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Subject: RE: Medieval Spring
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:08 PM

Jack, thanks for that. I'm clearly years out of date: Nimbus just dropped off my radar, it's great to see that they're still going - and that they survived the dreaded Robert Maxwell.

Suibhne, yes I believe they were the first firm to press CDs in the UK, but I didn't realise they used to sell the equipment to other people. I know they were always in the forefront of sound technology, ambisonic recording etc.

All sorts of weird stuff seems to have been tried by various people in the early 1980s. How about the Sony portable video recorder which could be bought with a clip on analogue-digital converter? I remember an Australian chap cleaned up a lot of early 78 rpm jazz recordings using this and other equipment - they came out on commercial CDs and were pretty amazing, not that the purists liked the idea.


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