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BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?

Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 11 - 10:08 AM
DMcG 27 Mar 11 - 10:20 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 10:28 AM
Arthur_itus 27 Mar 11 - 10:51 AM
BTNG 27 Mar 11 - 11:16 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 11:20 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM
Dave MacKenzie 27 Mar 11 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,lively 27 Mar 11 - 11:54 AM
Edthefolkie 27 Mar 11 - 12:13 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 11 - 12:47 PM
BTNG 27 Mar 11 - 12:49 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM
Will Fly 27 Mar 11 - 01:03 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 27 Mar 11 - 01:14 PM
Smedley 27 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM
Arthur_itus 27 Mar 11 - 01:31 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 27 Mar 11 - 01:47 PM
BTNG 27 Mar 11 - 01:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,Eliza 27 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM
Arthur_itus 27 Mar 11 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Eliza 27 Mar 11 - 02:38 PM
Arthur_itus 27 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,Eliza 27 Mar 11 - 02:43 PM
Noreen 27 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM
GUEST,Eliza 27 Mar 11 - 03:16 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 03:21 PM
Doug Chadwick 27 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM
DMcG 27 Mar 11 - 04:16 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM
BTNG 27 Mar 11 - 06:29 PM
Jack Campin 27 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM
Dave MacKenzie 27 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM
mauvepink 27 Mar 11 - 08:05 PM
ChrisJBrady 27 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM
nickp 28 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM
Bonzo3legs 28 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,Patsy 28 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:32 AM

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Subject: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:08 AM

Having just completed my details on the Census Form, I really cannot see what problem some people have with it. It is dumbed down to such an extent that a 7 year old (even the announcer at East Croydon Station who sounds like one) could complete it with little difficulty.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:20 AM

I don't see many problems myself either. There is always the question of what information about yourself you are revealing and what 'they' might do with it but actually the level of information sought is very coarse compared to, say, Nectar cards which many people sign up to without a second thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:28 AM

I decided to really piss them off and sent mine back to them, filled in, weeks ago. I'm done with people wanting to know so much personal information about me. Up theirs, is what I say...

I expect I've ruined The Census by doing this.. ;0) ...plus I'll have no doubt thrown a few pedantic twits into complete confusion...

Ho hum... :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:51 AM

We filled ours in online. Simple and in all honesty not any questions that concerned us.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:16 AM

A multi-choice question here

(a)are there really people who have a problem with the Census (I've not come across any)

(b) Is this a self-perceived problem?

(c) Is this a windup?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:20 AM

I have a problem with ALL forms. They make my head spin, get me stressed out, fed up and cross...I usually end up scribbling on them...I found that form way too intrusive and utterly stupid to be honest...

We've become obsessed by forms, fact and filling in...

I've decided to opt out of it all....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM

By the way, who pays for the Census?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:40 AM

You do (and me and ........)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:54 AM

a) I'm not interested in filling out the census, though I don't have a problem writing.
b) If it's a self-perceived problem, then gladly it's not my self-perceived problem, but the self-perceived problem of whomever demands that I fill out their form
c) Yes, the invasion of privacy winds me up.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:13 PM

The questions about the relationships between persons 1 2 3 & 4 suddenly reminded me of the 11 plus exam. Thanks fer nuthin' Lockheed Martin!

By the way, why are they scanning census papers when they used to make spacecraft?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:47 PM

It took no more than 15 minutes of my time, objectors clearly have something to hide or perhaps are just plain paranoid.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:49 PM

so you say Bonzo, freedom of choice is what it's all about, or don't you believe in that? silly question really I already know the answer


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM

I had to answer questions about Nanny..."What kind of work do they do?"

"She's 96 years old! For Chrissake!!" is the answer they got...

I'm sorry, but these things are purely for people who love facts...They eat them up like the rest of us munch cornflakes and I truly don't see whose business it is WHO is staying in my house, who they are, what they do, how old they are...etc..etc..etc..

The people who want to know it all are the paranoid ones, Bonzo..They should get a real job...

Oh...hang on, there aren't any.....Oops..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:03 PM

Did the census form online in a few minutes this afternoon. No problem. It's going to be the last one, apparently - which will be a sad loss for family researchers in 2111. I've used the, admittedly much simpler, censuses from 1841 to the 1911 one, and the information about my family has been of huge value.

As far the personal info is concerned, there's far more about us all available, for those in the know, from the DVLA, central Police computer, banks, building societies, online stores...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:12 PM

Yes, I understand that bit, Will, but I'm at the end of my tether about being asked questions all the time. The Data Protection Act is enough to drive you batty...

"Hello there, I was just wondering if you could......"

"National Insurance Number! Full Name!! Mother's Maiden Name!!! Father's Occupation!!!! Address, including Postcode!!!!! Telephone Number!!!!! Password!!!!!!!"


"....if you could tell me about the overpayment of tax I paid recently and....."


"We can't tell you anything until after 29th April, too busy, too many letters! Goodbye!"

AAAAARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Even Joan Collins was moaning about it the other day...

Information Overload Information Overload...never felt so watched in all my life.


So, how much does the Census cost?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:14 PM

I think the problem is that its difficult to imagine what could be the possible use of it. As someone says all this information and much more is available on other government computers. Instead of paying for all this postage, why not get a computer that can collate the information they already have.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Smedley
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM

The most concerning thing about this census is that the government has contracted out the data collection to a branch of the arms manufacturers and dealers Lockheed Martin, who will be making large profits from this. There are various suggestions online about how to fill out the form in ways that will involve LM in more work and reduced profiteering.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:31 PM

It's all a load of bollocks really


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:47 PM

We are getting somewhere: next to my country? I was allowed to tick England...and, God willing, next time it will be Republic of England - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#225


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:50 PM

God help us if there is a Republic of England, that'll bring all the nutters out of the woodwork


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM

Some puzzling bits - for example - "If no-one usually lives here and there are no visitors staying overnight here on the night of March 27 2011, answer questions H7 to H11 on page 6 and then go to the Declaration on the front page"

Who are they addressing?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:14 PM

Landlords? They own most of the housing stock these days, apart from the UberRichUberReich


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM

Filling in my 'last work' as 'Schoolteacher', I was asked to describe this type of work. What could one put but 'Teaching in a school'? And what was the purpose of the place where I worked? 'Teaching pupils'. And how would I describe my state of health? Not bad thank you very much! And how well do I speak English? Using what standard of measurement exactly? All very vague. I've discovered that the mysterious Question 17 is left blank for the purpose of Welsh people. Are they going to write something very rude there in Welsh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:29 PM

""And how well do I speak English? Using what standard of measurement exactly?""

Well if you were born in England, one would assume you can speak English.

Sounds like they are building up a budget for the cost of all those foriengers that need to be taught English, so they they can get the jobs us English need, That excludes me as I am retired.

Oh yes we want to look after all the foreigners that can't speak english, so that we can give you the jobs.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:38 PM

They wanted me to choose from 'well', quite well' 'fair' and 'not well'. I've had a few pupils in my time whose English was incomprehensible, even though they were born here! (eg in Glasgow)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM

Ah they would answer Not Well Jimmy!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:43 PM

LOL Arthur itis!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM

Eliza, Question 17 on the Welsh version of the census asks whether you speak Welsh. Hence it is not required to be answered by those living in England- nothing suspicious about it, and easily discovered by a simple Google search.

Having found a great deal of fascinating information about my ancestors from research using previous censuses, I am very happy to fill in the current census accurately; as has been said above, there's nothing asked for that you haven't already given to numerous other people who asked for it.

Disrupting it or filling in rubbish is not going to save anyone any money, nor is it going to prevent any of the information already in the public domain being there.

Alan says: why not get a computer that can collate the information they already have.

Err, really? How much would that cost then?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:16 PM

Only joking Noreen. I didn't SERIOUSLY think it sinister, or that the Welsh would write anything untoward. I agree, past censuses have enabled many people to discover fascinating things about their ancestors, including my own family.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:21 PM

"Disrupting it or filling in rubbish is not going to save anyone any money, nor is it going to prevent any of the information already in the public domain being there."

It's fun though... ;0)

LizzieNotsogoodytwoshoes


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM

It's fun though...

If that's what turns you on! Small things amuse small minds.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:16 PM

While I agree with the comments about the usefulness to future genealogists so would want to encourage accurate information, the odd rebellious entry - like the Jedi religion of the last census - does record something about the relationship between we formfillers and government in the official record.

I wonder how many of the Jedi have lapsed in the last decade?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afN1oxJpn1o

Now listen to this guy!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

It'd be a lot more interesting if they asked questions such as "what's your favourite food?" or "do you have any pets?" or "favourite type of music?" - the kind of stuff that any descendants in a hundred years or so might like to know. Or "are you right-handed or left handed?" or "can you play any musical instruments?" or "can you drive a car?"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:29 PM

Herr Chadwick, there's no need for insults, or is that what turns YOU on....small minds etc...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

The problem with the census is the people running it - in Scotland, a firm of American private-enterprise torturers with an appalling record of atrocities in Iraq.

SACC's flyer on CACI


Press Release from Scotland Against Criminalising Communities
Friday 25 March
For immediate release

Human Rights Group pledges support for census refusers

Human rights group Scotland Against Criminalising Communities (SACC) will do all it can to support anyone prosecuted for failing to properly complete their census forms. SACC has been encouraging people to refuse to co-operate with the census in protest at the involvement in it of CACI, a US-based defence contractor involved in human rights abuse at Abu Ghraib. CACI is carrying out crucial Information Technology and "back-office" work for the census.

Richard Haley, Chair of SACC, said:

"The involvement of CACI in Scotland's census is a scandal and we support all forms of peaceful non-cooperation with the census. We urge everyone, whether they decide to complete their census form or not, to refuse to give any useful information to census staff who visit them. People who refuse to complete their forms are completely justified and if they stand firm they are very unlikely to be prosecuted.

"The law requiring people to fill in and return their census forms is almost unenforceable. Just three people were convicted after the last census, in 2001. We hope and expect that there will be no prosecutions at all after this year's census, in view of the justifiable outrage it has provoked. But if the Register Office does attempt to victimise anyone, we will provide all the support we can to the people involved."

SACC does not accept that the census, in the form it has taken this year, can help to secure public services in Scotland. Proper public service provision cannot be made on the basis of information gathered with the help of a private firm inappropriately contracted to carry out senstive public work despite a record of human rights violations.

The General Register Office of Scotland (GROS) has been negligent, unethical and irresponsible in its handling of the census contract. The difficulties that this will create over the next decade can be surmounted through a rigorous and imaginative use of other forms of data. But the problem is entirely one of GROS's making.

Advice for people who do not wish to co-operate with the census can be found at www.ethicalcensus.org.uk/non-cooperation.php


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM

Because of the way the questions are phrased, it is possible to fill it in correctly but erroneously.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: mauvepink
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:05 PM

Simple or not... the people analysing the form will be getting paid for it. The people chasing people up will be getting paid for it. Everyone involved with the forms will be getting paid for there time with it... except YOU

Why is their time deemed more important than our own? Why is their time paid for and ours not? Yet we are forced and threatened to fill it in. It has had some of my older clients in a real upset about consequences and, despite reassurances, they have still been upset. It has taken some of them a lot of time and effort to do it. Is their time not important? Some pensioners are already overrun with form filling and such. Aside from that lots of people are really put in a panic by having to fill in a form at any time. They are not trying to hide anything: they simply get freaked out by forms.

They also said they would not ask about sexuality... but then ask if you are in a same sex civil partnership! Go figure that one

No doubt, like the banks, the credit agencies, the Police, etc etc... if and when you want to see your information you will be charged a cost for getting it given you. It's YOUR information not theirs!

In short the whole thing is unfair and some could argue unethical given who will be analysing it all. All that said, I did mine online 3 weeks ago when the form first came.

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM

All forms that are completed in hard-copy (not online) have to be posted back. Bearing in mind that the UK Post Office 'loses' considerable quantities of items of mail (or rather these are simply dumped into skips 'cos the staff can't be ar$ed to deliver them, that is if they don't actually steal them) - amounting to over 2 MILLION items of mail a year (or is that a month, week, day?) - then a *lot of these forms are gonna go missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM

Ok, I don't like the idea of the company who got the contract to administer this. They have blood on their hands and are owned through a country that is not civilised enough to join the International fold, even though they claim to lead it. (Get rid of capital punishment and I will start taking USA seriously.)

Right, that off my chest, move on.

A census, if the data is used properly, helps plan the need for services over the next ten years. As public coffers are being squeezed at present, seems to me that adequate planning targets most need.

Also, by not engaging, councils will receive less money as their population will be judged by the returns, not by any other way of counting the population.

(Just as an aside, did you know that the population by GP list size is larger than reality? That is because they are paid by, amongst other factors, list size. So.. new born babies are added to the list the minute they are born. When people die, it takes time to take them off the list. Funny that......)

I have issues in general about interference, but at the same time want targeted decent public services. Seems my view cannot be polarised then..........


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM

"If that's what turns you on! Small things amuse small minds"


No, Doug...idiotic things deeply frustrate the large minds, actually.

This is probably costing billions of pounds, yet again....millions in the least, yet there is no guarantee whatsoeve that any of the information they collect and pore over will be correct. There is no way of checking. Much of it will be deeply misleading, I'd imagine, because many folks are fed up with being ordered abour by Bossyboot Pedants. And so, the results really mean very little in the big sense of history.

IF those who deem themselves in control DEMAND that we MUST fulfill their wishes, or else we get fined/imprisoned/hanged/drawn/quartered and our heads raised high above Big Ben for all to see, then it just makes me scribble and scribble and scribble...because I refuse to be dictated to.

The *only* ***compulsory*** things in my view are Life and Death. For everything inbetween there is a choice.

Choice is a basic Human Right in my book of How I Live My Life.

I dance only to my own tune, never to the tune of others, even if that tune is called The Compulsory Census.

Now, if they made it OPTIONAL then I might just sit down and fill it in far better, but only providing the questions they ask are useful, intelligent and worth me struggling with a spinning head whilst filling in the form in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: nickp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM

Mine took about 5 minutes, while I was waiting for dinner to cook...

Strangely there was no question about where I was born (Birmingham as it happens, someone had to be!).

Having made great use of earlier censuses for family tree research it would be a bit churlish to complain.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM

Here's a great idea - let's each send our online registration number to someone else, and then...

(Gets coat)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM

Ooh, yes, Will! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM

"It'd be a lot more interesting if they asked questions such as "what's your favourite food?" or "do you have any pets?" or "favourite type of music?" - the kind of stuff that any descendants in a hundred years or so might like to know. Or "are you right-handed or left handed?" or "can you play any musical instruments?" or "can you drive a car?"

Excellent ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:18 AM

---The *only* ***compulsory*** things in my view are Life and Death. For everything inbetween there is a choice.

Choice is a basic Human Right in my book of How I Live My Life.---
====

Oh, ah, Lizzie? Then just try 'choosing' to drive from Devon to London on the right hand side of the road, why dontcha, just becoz you feel like it today. Or 'choosing' when you get there to sit down in the road in the middle of the rush-hour traffic at Hyde Park Corner becoz it seems a good idea at the time. Or (cont p 94)

Luvya Lizzie, as you know. But just sometimes ...


xxx~❤Michael❤~xxx


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM

What narks my 88 year old dad is that after being involved in WW2, working hard all his life, always lived as honest as he could, that he has been so insignificant that they don't know what kind of a man he is anyway?

From his point of view he distrusts a government who would love to get their greedy little hands on everything he worked hard for and resents the intrusion to his privacy like how many rooms does he have? Damned cheek.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM

Then just try 'choosing' to drive from Devon to London on the right hand side of the road, why dontcha, just becoz you feel like it today. Or 'choosing' when you get there to sit down in the road in the middle of the rush-hour traffic at Hyde Park Corner becoz it seems a good idea at the time.

The Irish have a great saying for all this, Michael: ""Have what you will - but pay for it!"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM

Sorry, Patsy: but however worthy a man your dad is, and however fine his lifelong contribution, can he really believe that 'they' must know all about what kind of person all of us over a certain age are?

Oh come on...

~Michael~ [ mere 80-next-year!]


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:32 AM

Interestingly, Will, I have always had that quoted at me as a Spanish proverb. {Can we have a 'folklore' tag on this thread now, please?}

~Michael~


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