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BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?

Les from Hull 31 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM
Smedley 31 Mar 11 - 01:12 PM
melodeonboy 31 Mar 11 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,Patsy 31 Mar 11 - 07:21 AM
Dave MacKenzie 30 Mar 11 - 06:56 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 30 Mar 11 - 03:39 PM
JHW 29 Mar 11 - 05:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Mar 11 - 08:00 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 11 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Patsy 29 Mar 11 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,likely 28 Mar 11 - 05:06 PM
Bonzo3legs 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM
Bonzo3legs 28 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,lively 28 Mar 11 - 04:48 PM
Brian May 28 Mar 11 - 04:27 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 02:24 PM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 02:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Mar 11 - 02:02 PM
Brian May 28 Mar 11 - 01:35 PM
Old Vermin 28 Mar 11 - 08:40 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Patsy 28 Mar 11 - 08:12 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 07:56 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:43 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 11 - 06:42 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:41 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 06:38 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:32 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,Patsy 28 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Mar 11 - 06:18 AM
Bonzo3legs 28 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM
nickp 28 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM
ChrisJBrady 27 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM
mauvepink 27 Mar 11 - 08:05 PM
Dave MacKenzie 27 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM
Jack Campin 27 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM
BTNG 27 Mar 11 - 06:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM
DMcG 27 Mar 11 - 04:16 PM
Doug Chadwick 27 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 27 Mar 11 - 03:21 PM
GUEST,Eliza 27 Mar 11 - 03:16 PM
Noreen 27 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM

It was really easy to fill in online. An ideal application for online use, and for once very well implemented. It took hardly any time at all.

Perhaps some of you people don't have Internet access?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Smedley
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 01:12 PM

As someone who *is* in a same-sex civil partnership, being able to record this on the census form did feel like a significant step on the road towards recognition and equality.

However, if I take off my sexuality hat (it's a purple suede fedora) and put on my paranoid lefty one (far less chic), that equality can be seen as an equal right to be snooped on!

Swings and roundabouts.....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 07:26 AM

I didn't have any problem with it in general, although I was a little concerned that they wanted to know the name of the person who stayed with me on the night of the 27th March; and her address!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 07:21 AM

Let's hope whoever is in charge of all this information can be trusted to keep it all confidential, no fear of losing it or leaving it on a bus. Seeing that the information is supposed to benefit the area for the good it's a pity that there hadn't been a box to fill in about things that we are happy with in the area and things that we are not rather than making it look more or less like a Council form.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 06:56 PM

I was disappointed that there was nowhere for imaginary friends. Harvey, however, was really upset. He stormed off and I haven't seen him since.

As to NI Numbers, my daughter has one, and went to Paris to live and work the day before the census.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 03:39 PM

In WW2 Name rank and serial number seemed to be good enough for POWs when interrogated by the Gestapo!
Sexual orientation??? Hunbug.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: JHW
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:54 PM

"It'd be a lot more interesting if they asked questions such as "what's your favourite food?" or "do you have any pets?" or etc.

Absolutely, An awful lot of work and expense to gather relatively little information.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 08:00 AM

Not really a smartarse - but I think we owe it to Gandhi to get his name right. So when "Ghandi" crops up I tend to point it out. I


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:53 AM

I have a pathological hatred of any form that requires me to reply by putting one letter into each tiny little square box. In fact, I can't actually do it. My writing bleeds outside those silly boxes all over the place. Only a total bloody control freak could come up with a form like that. I hope they have as much trouble reading it as I had, literally having had to cramp my style, writing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 07:31 AM

Well I would have spelt it Ghandi too. It's like Gadaffi either lots of dees, letters stuck in the wrong place or an awful lot of effs!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,likely
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:06 PM

Ooer, what appealing fantasies you have of me Bonzo! If only you were in charge, I'd have such a super life!
Chablis anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

Now *there's* a thought! No more 'foot down on the accelerator!' living, just gentle cruising, like on the Dodgems...always aware, no time for mobile phones..and think of the money it'll save on fuel!!!

What you need dearie is a nice hot cup of tea, then it'll be all over in a jiffy and you'll be right as rain!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

But they need to know if you are a poove so you can be equalitied!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:48 PM

Aspects of this thread remind me of classic Daily Wail "Oh, but you've got nothing to fear, just so long as you've got nothing to hide!" arguments against privacy, or "Oh, but what are you worried about, after all your Chiropodist and your Grocer already know everything there is to know about you!

Well, as I'm free to choose whether or notI wish to receive a service (requiring relevant information) from my chiropodist but I don't have a choice as to whether I share my sexual orientation with the government, of course the "similarity" doesn't cut it.

Unfortunately the argument that "it's my hobby to snoop on my ancestors", doesn't wash wish me. I don't consider myself obliged to indulge my potential future progeny's prurient interests in my private life. For one thing, I'll never get to know about theirs even if I wanted to, which oddly (or not) enough, I don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:27 PM

It's OK Lizzie, he knew who he was . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:24 PM

I think Ghandi was the man who was more concerned about World Peace than whether folks spelt his name correctly.....but...maybe that was Gandhi..I'm not too sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:05 PM

I took her to mean Gandhi, McG. Don't be a smartarse now, there's a dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:02 PM

Who was "Ghandi"?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:35 PM

I thought that whilst it was easy enough to fill in (on line in my case), it was the most intrusive census I've ever seen.

Amazing how draconian governments get when you consider NOT dancing to their tune. God help them if you mess with their stats.

It's rich when you remember the interview between Jeremy Paxman and Tony Bliar - when he couldn't name to within the nearest 10,000 how many illegal immigrants in this country. No doubt, they were all busily filling in their Census forms, yeah right.

Arthur had it right, it's a load of bollocks.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:40 AM

Just a thought, not on the content of the information but on the population itself. The governmental reckoning is that at the last census - was it 2001 - one million people were omitted - did not fill in forms or left out by others. The source for this estimate seems to be local government - councils and counties - and other bits of central government.. They say that they are providing services for about a million more people than were counted.

What if some of these services and benefits are being provided for 'Potemkin' citizens - people who exist only for the purpose of public spending of one sort or another?

By the way, there are apparently many more National Insurance numbers in the UK in issue than people to support them. Some good old human error, no doubt, but one does start to wonder what is going on and just who is gaining.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:18 AM

I do see, Patsy. I wasn't meaning to be unsympathetic; but I couldn't quite see the objections as all that significant within the terms of this thread.

Certainly wish all the best to all of you.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:12 AM

Hello Michael,

This is from his perspective how he sees it, he is angry and scared about his deteriorating health and what seems to be lack of care from the doctor for both him and my mother, naturally he is venting his anger at the Census, the whole thing.

Sorry to sound s sour puss today.

P


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:56 AM

Oh, I have...he's American. And just occasionally his concentration lapses...

It's interesting.. :0)

Maybe we'd all drive in a far safer fashion if we weren't sure what side the driver on the part of the road was going to be coming at us from...

Now *there's* a thought! No more 'foot down on the accelerator!' living, just gentle cruising, like on the Dodgems...always aware, no time for mobile phones..and think of the money it'll save on fuel!!!


;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:43 AM

,,, & even better then, offer yourself as a passenger to somebody else who chooses that righthand drive and see how you like it...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:42 AM

I have always had that quoted at me as a Spanish proverb.

Mmmm... let's see... I think I first encountered that in print in Brendan Behan's "Hold Your Hour and Have Another" collection of journalism. Perhaps BB filched it from another culture!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:41 AM

Yay, Lizzie ~~ but even he, not at Hyde Park Corner in the rush-hour...

xMx


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:38 AM

Michael, I don't drive.. ;0)

And...Ghandi sat down a lot in all sorts of places....achieved quite a bit from it, as I recall...

Luvya back, though... x :0) x


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:32 AM

Interestingly, Will, I have always had that quoted at me as a Spanish proverb. {Can we have a 'folklore' tag on this thread now, please?}

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:30 AM

Sorry, Patsy: but however worthy a man your dad is, and however fine his lifelong contribution, can he really believe that 'they' must know all about what kind of person all of us over a certain age are?

Oh come on...

~Michael~ [ mere 80-next-year!]


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM

Then just try 'choosing' to drive from Devon to London on the right hand side of the road, why dontcha, just becoz you feel like it today. Or 'choosing' when you get there to sit down in the road in the middle of the rush-hour traffic at Hyde Park Corner becoz it seems a good idea at the time.

The Irish have a great saying for all this, Michael: ""Have what you will - but pay for it!"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM

What narks my 88 year old dad is that after being involved in WW2, working hard all his life, always lived as honest as he could, that he has been so insignificant that they don't know what kind of a man he is anyway?

From his point of view he distrusts a government who would love to get their greedy little hands on everything he worked hard for and resents the intrusion to his privacy like how many rooms does he have? Damned cheek.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:18 AM

---The *only* ***compulsory*** things in my view are Life and Death. For everything inbetween there is a choice.

Choice is a basic Human Right in my book of How I Live My Life.---
====

Oh, ah, Lizzie? Then just try 'choosing' to drive from Devon to London on the right hand side of the road, why dontcha, just becoz you feel like it today. Or 'choosing' when you get there to sit down in the road in the middle of the rush-hour traffic at Hyde Park Corner becoz it seems a good idea at the time. Or (cont p 94)

Luvya Lizzie, as you know. But just sometimes ...


xxx~❤Michael❤~xxx


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM

"It'd be a lot more interesting if they asked questions such as "what's your favourite food?" or "do you have any pets?" or "favourite type of music?" - the kind of stuff that any descendants in a hundred years or so might like to know. Or "are you right-handed or left handed?" or "can you play any musical instruments?" or "can you drive a car?"

Excellent ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM

Ooh, yes, Will! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM

Here's a great idea - let's each send our online registration number to someone else, and then...

(Gets coat)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: nickp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM

Mine took about 5 minutes, while I was waiting for dinner to cook...

Strangely there was no question about where I was born (Birmingham as it happens, someone had to be!).

Having made great use of earlier censuses for family tree research it would be a bit churlish to complain.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM

"If that's what turns you on! Small things amuse small minds"


No, Doug...idiotic things deeply frustrate the large minds, actually.

This is probably costing billions of pounds, yet again....millions in the least, yet there is no guarantee whatsoeve that any of the information they collect and pore over will be correct. There is no way of checking. Much of it will be deeply misleading, I'd imagine, because many folks are fed up with being ordered abour by Bossyboot Pedants. And so, the results really mean very little in the big sense of history.

IF those who deem themselves in control DEMAND that we MUST fulfill their wishes, or else we get fined/imprisoned/hanged/drawn/quartered and our heads raised high above Big Ben for all to see, then it just makes me scribble and scribble and scribble...because I refuse to be dictated to.

The *only* ***compulsory*** things in my view are Life and Death. For everything inbetween there is a choice.

Choice is a basic Human Right in my book of How I Live My Life.

I dance only to my own tune, never to the tune of others, even if that tune is called The Compulsory Census.

Now, if they made it OPTIONAL then I might just sit down and fill it in far better, but only providing the questions they ask are useful, intelligent and worth me struggling with a spinning head whilst filling in the form in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM

Ok, I don't like the idea of the company who got the contract to administer this. They have blood on their hands and are owned through a country that is not civilised enough to join the International fold, even though they claim to lead it. (Get rid of capital punishment and I will start taking USA seriously.)

Right, that off my chest, move on.

A census, if the data is used properly, helps plan the need for services over the next ten years. As public coffers are being squeezed at present, seems to me that adequate planning targets most need.

Also, by not engaging, councils will receive less money as their population will be judged by the returns, not by any other way of counting the population.

(Just as an aside, did you know that the population by GP list size is larger than reality? That is because they are paid by, amongst other factors, list size. So.. new born babies are added to the list the minute they are born. When people die, it takes time to take them off the list. Funny that......)

I have issues in general about interference, but at the same time want targeted decent public services. Seems my view cannot be polarised then..........


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:20 PM

All forms that are completed in hard-copy (not online) have to be posted back. Bearing in mind that the UK Post Office 'loses' considerable quantities of items of mail (or rather these are simply dumped into skips 'cos the staff can't be ar$ed to deliver them, that is if they don't actually steal them) - amounting to over 2 MILLION items of mail a year (or is that a month, week, day?) - then a *lot of these forms are gonna go missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: mauvepink
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:05 PM

Simple or not... the people analysing the form will be getting paid for it. The people chasing people up will be getting paid for it. Everyone involved with the forms will be getting paid for there time with it... except YOU

Why is their time deemed more important than our own? Why is their time paid for and ours not? Yet we are forced and threatened to fill it in. It has had some of my older clients in a real upset about consequences and, despite reassurances, they have still been upset. It has taken some of them a lot of time and effort to do it. Is their time not important? Some pensioners are already overrun with form filling and such. Aside from that lots of people are really put in a panic by having to fill in a form at any time. They are not trying to hide anything: they simply get freaked out by forms.

They also said they would not ask about sexuality... but then ask if you are in a same sex civil partnership! Go figure that one

No doubt, like the banks, the credit agencies, the Police, etc etc... if and when you want to see your information you will be charged a cost for getting it given you. It's YOUR information not theirs!

In short the whole thing is unfair and some could argue unethical given who will be analysing it all. All that said, I did mine online 3 weeks ago when the form first came.

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM

Because of the way the questions are phrased, it is possible to fill it in correctly but erroneously.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

The problem with the census is the people running it - in Scotland, a firm of American private-enterprise torturers with an appalling record of atrocities in Iraq.

SACC's flyer on CACI


Press Release from Scotland Against Criminalising Communities
Friday 25 March
For immediate release

Human Rights Group pledges support for census refusers

Human rights group Scotland Against Criminalising Communities (SACC) will do all it can to support anyone prosecuted for failing to properly complete their census forms. SACC has been encouraging people to refuse to co-operate with the census in protest at the involvement in it of CACI, a US-based defence contractor involved in human rights abuse at Abu Ghraib. CACI is carrying out crucial Information Technology and "back-office" work for the census.

Richard Haley, Chair of SACC, said:

"The involvement of CACI in Scotland's census is a scandal and we support all forms of peaceful non-cooperation with the census. We urge everyone, whether they decide to complete their census form or not, to refuse to give any useful information to census staff who visit them. People who refuse to complete their forms are completely justified and if they stand firm they are very unlikely to be prosecuted.

"The law requiring people to fill in and return their census forms is almost unenforceable. Just three people were convicted after the last census, in 2001. We hope and expect that there will be no prosecutions at all after this year's census, in view of the justifiable outrage it has provoked. But if the Register Office does attempt to victimise anyone, we will provide all the support we can to the people involved."

SACC does not accept that the census, in the form it has taken this year, can help to secure public services in Scotland. Proper public service provision cannot be made on the basis of information gathered with the help of a private firm inappropriately contracted to carry out senstive public work despite a record of human rights violations.

The General Register Office of Scotland (GROS) has been negligent, unethical and irresponsible in its handling of the census contract. The difficulties that this will create over the next decade can be surmounted through a rigorous and imaginative use of other forms of data. But the problem is entirely one of GROS's making.

Advice for people who do not wish to co-operate with the census can be found at www.ethicalcensus.org.uk/non-cooperation.php


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:29 PM

Herr Chadwick, there's no need for insults, or is that what turns YOU on....small minds etc...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 05:14 PM

It'd be a lot more interesting if they asked questions such as "what's your favourite food?" or "do you have any pets?" or "favourite type of music?" - the kind of stuff that any descendants in a hundred years or so might like to know. Or "are you right-handed or left handed?" or "can you play any musical instruments?" or "can you drive a car?"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afN1oxJpn1o

Now listen to this guy!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:16 PM

While I agree with the comments about the usefulness to future genealogists so would want to encourage accurate information, the odd rebellious entry - like the Jedi religion of the last census - does record something about the relationship between we formfillers and government in the official record.

I wonder how many of the Jedi have lapsed in the last decade?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM

It's fun though...

If that's what turns you on! Small things amuse small minds.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:21 PM

"Disrupting it or filling in rubbish is not going to save anyone any money, nor is it going to prevent any of the information already in the public domain being there."

It's fun though... ;0)

LizzieNotsogoodytwoshoes


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:16 PM

Only joking Noreen. I didn't SERIOUSLY think it sinister, or that the Welsh would write anything untoward. I agree, past censuses have enabled many people to discover fascinating things about their ancestors, including my own family.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK Census form - what's the problem?
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM

Eliza, Question 17 on the Welsh version of the census asks whether you speak Welsh. Hence it is not required to be answered by those living in England- nothing suspicious about it, and easily discovered by a simple Google search.

Having found a great deal of fascinating information about my ancestors from research using previous censuses, I am very happy to fill in the current census accurately; as has been said above, there's nothing asked for that you haven't already given to numerous other people who asked for it.

Disrupting it or filling in rubbish is not going to save anyone any money, nor is it going to prevent any of the information already in the public domain being there.

Alan says: why not get a computer that can collate the information they already have.

Err, really? How much would that cost then?


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