3D Sound

Subject: 3D Sound
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 01 Apr 11 - 05:09 AM

Did anyone hear the 'Today' programme on BBC Radio 4 this morning.
The question for all the expert sound engineers out there is could this '3D sound' be recreated for a live sound.

Could be great fun for the performers watching their audience trying to get their hands in the right place in front of their face to 'cut out the hiss' and tune in to the 3D sound ;-)

John

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: scouse
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 03:59 AM

Oh dear, Bounty Hound... Didn't you realize the what the date was yesterday!!! Nearly as good as the bbc's report on the Spaghetti crop harvest way back in the 60's.

As Aye,

Phil

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 07:07 AM

There was actually an experimental programme on BBC Radio 3 in the early 1970s where they experimented with 3D sound. With clever engineering techniques, they broadcast various bits of sound which gave the impression of sound going, not only from side to side, but vertically and laterally - behind the listener. You had to be be placed absolutely in between the stereo speakers and at a certain distance from them - but it worked amazingly.

I never heard of the technique being used in a performance situation after that, but the experiment was impressive.

Will (ex-BBC)

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM

Phil,

Rest assured I did know what day it was yesterday, hence the little wink in my original post. I had hoped it might just draw one or two 'experts' who hadn't heard the broadcast with some interesting ideas.

Not as good as the Tomorrows World touch screen telly one of about 25 years ago though.

Wasn't expecting a reply from a real expert though Will, interesting stuff, thanks.

John

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 08:52 AM

For the record, here is the April Fools Day item and here is what they said today what they said today.

However on Saturday 19th March there was this.

A little Googling found this.

Either it's a joke built on a core of truth or it's a ver big scam indeed.

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 09:13 AM

I heard lots of 3D sound in the '60s. It just 'happened'.

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 02:19 AM

Back in the 90's here was a brief fad for chart 'pop' CD's mastered with "QSound 3D Processing"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=QSound+3D+Processing

Q3D™ - a proprietary process for 3D spatial enhancement using only normal domestic stereo speaker setups.

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:18 AM

And of course, there was Binaural experiments going on too. Using a "Kuntskopf" head (sp?)
With microphones mounted inside a polystyrene bonce, exactly where your ears would be!
Obviously, you had to listen back on headphones, to keep the phase differences correct, but, I have a demo disc from Sennheiser, and it's really quite an eery effect.
I remember, during a night shift, going up to Regents Park, with 2 mics stuck in my ears, recording the ducks! How sad is that!
The Beeb also experimented with encoded Quadrophonic surround sound (even recorded an episode of the Archers using it!) But the decoding kit was prohibitively expensive. Nonetheless, nice to know that attempts were made!

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,dallas simpson
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:46 AM

Interesting thread. Yes I heard the binaural spoof. Ok it was cleverly done with elements of the 'technospeak' that referred to elements of binaural, bipolar speaker crosstalk cancellation, and indeed Ambisonics - the 4 equations of the First Order B Format!

A bit of a kick in the teeth for those like myself who have been trying to persuade the BEEB to take up regular binaural surround sound broadcasting for around 18 years. There have been a few binaural programmes over the last few years - the Dark House R4, Egil's Saga R3, The Revenge R7 - a binaural soundscape work apparently transmitted in the mono environment of R7, and most recently a binaural trailer for R7 (now Radio 4 Xtra) Planet B on the (stereo) website only. The reason being that as stated previously R7/R4 Xtra only broadcasts in glorious mono at a bitrate of 80kbps.

Older listeners may remember an excellent spate of 'experimental' binaural dramas and environmental documentaries on the BBC in the '70's.

The BBC is currently researching into surround sound broadcasting using binaural (headphone) and Ambisonic (multispeaker) techniques, but with inevitable cutbacks and huge technical complications associated with digital broadcasting, I feel that progress will be inevitably slow.

BTW Ralphie, as a regular binaural recordist with custom modified mics firmly in my ears, sad no, evolutionary even revolutionary and certainly spatially, yes!

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:57 AM

Of course, with some practice, we could all experience '3D' sound.

But you would have to be in the middle of the performers.

And if you are, and if you are performing yourself, you would be concentrating mostly on your own instrument....

Naah. Commando Trad is the only way to go. ;-)

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:43 AM

Dallas.
Agreed! I remember sitting in a room in BH with four speakers, (one in each corner) listening to the Archers in "surround sound". Very surreal!!!
But, as you say, with the cutbacks happening within the Beeb nowadays, I really don't see that this sort of technology is very high on the priority list.
I also recall, that we made a short recording of a sash window opening in Binaural, for the Terry Wogan show. At the time he was talking all the tosh about the Director General working out on the roof of BH, and he would pretend to open a window to get a closer look! Somewhere, I've still got the sound clip! How sad is that!

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 03:09 AM

"Commando Trad is the only way to go. ;-) "

Some people have been Commando Folkies for years - saves that annoying itch!   :-)

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: JHW
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:37 AM

I still have a big pair of Kefs on the floor and behind me in the bow window 2xWharfedales wired Hafler (simple to do).
Very good depth on live recordings.
Wikipedia on Hafler says
"In the 1970's Hafler promoted "passive pseudo-quadraphonics", an inexpensive method of recreating ambient sounds at the rear from ordinary stereophonic recordings. Known as the "Hafler hookup",[1] this consisted of two similar additional rear speakers, connected in series (typically 8 + 8 or 16 ohms total) between the live feeds to the front speakers."

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:43 AM

Actually there was a similar old trick which involved wiring in series across a mono input different makes and styles of speakers, which would have differing responses, thus getting an apparent spread of sound. Did it iin my old car once.

Subject: RE: 3D Sound
From: GUEST,dallas simpson
Date: 08 May 11 - 11:38 AM

And here is a little binaural surround sound work from myself (Byron Kinesonication) created for Annexinema...

http://www.sideshow2010.org/artnot/event/aug16/970/annexinema

...recorded in the semi derelict Byron cinema in Hucknall, Notts in 2010. Headphones essential - keep the volume lowish!
Available for 28 days only from 08/05/11.
https://download.yousendit.com/UnlDWUh1YStlcEpjR0E9PQ