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I love these old drum kits.

josepp 02 Apr 11 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 02 Apr 11 - 03:41 PM
josepp 02 Apr 11 - 04:09 PM
josepp 02 Apr 11 - 10:50 PM
Roger the Skiffler 03 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 03 Apr 11 - 04:47 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 03 Apr 11 - 04:59 AM
josepp 03 Apr 11 - 11:54 AM
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Subject: I love these old drum kits.
From: josepp
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:57 PM

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum42/knapp6.jpg

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum42/kanap2.jpg

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=362082&stc=1&d=1254840329

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=362081&stc=1&d=1254840319

http://www.drumshow.dk/2004/billede/Tromme6.jpg

http://songbook1.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/original-dixieland-jazz-band-sepia-smooth.jpg

http://liveassets.rationalpathinc.netdna-cdn.com/usercontent/gear/1958455/p1_uioszu2zr_so.jpg

http://kermitvonmunster.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1920_gretsch_sock_cymbals.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1918-ludwig-drum-sets-1.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1919-ludwig-drum-sets-1.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1919-ludwig-drum-sets-4.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/other_stuff/bill_ludwigiii/ludwig_1923_6.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1924-ludwig-drum-sets-2.jpg

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1924-ludwig-drum-sets-2.jpg

Paul Tremaine & His Aristocrats "Four-Four Rhythm"

Harry Reser's Syncopators "Sweet Man"


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 03:41 PM

Excellent! Got through the first few of those anyway - my sort of thing - the original drum trap. I suppose the apotheosis of this sort of thing was reached by Duke Ellington's long-time drummer Sonny Greer whose impressive kit was gifted by the Cotton Club gangsters...

http://www.moderndrummer.com/updatefull/200001829/Sonny%20Greer


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: josepp
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 04:09 PM

Drumming was a very different thing in those days. There was no hi-hat. Back then it was two cymbals attached directly to a pedal down by the foot. You couldn't ride it like we modern drummers today. Today the hi-hat helps the drummer keep time so without one to ride back then, drummers had to have a totally different approach. Then, if you look at these, there is a cymbal attached vertically to the kick drum. The foot pedal had a "spur" on it and when the player pressed the pedal it to pop the kick drum, the spur struck the cymbal. Too bad recording techniques were so primitive then, because we really don't hear what these kits sounded like--we hear a bit of bopping and clanging in the background.

These kits also had triangles, rattles, bells and blocks for various effects. The toms were called "Chinese toms" where the heads were riveted on and were rather shallow compared to today's toms. The Chinese cymbal was ubiquitous then and attached to the kick drum whereas many drummers today don't even have a Chinese cymbal. It was whole different way of drumming.


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: josepp
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 10:50 PM

Page from a 1928 Slingerland catalog

Leedy-Ludwig snare from 30s (rare)

Pre-Conn 1920s snare from Leedy

Ludwig 1920s Black Beauty snare

Gretsch snare pre-1939

1920s Ludwig & Ludwig brass shell nickel-plated snare

Slingerland Radio King snare 1940s

W.F.L. 1940s snare

Gretsch has been making drums since the 1880s and is the oldest drum company in the U.S. Ludwig & Ludwig started in Chicago about 1911.

Leedy started in Indianapolis about 1898.

Slingerland started manufacturing drums in 1928 in Chicago (they made other instruments prior to that) with the Radio King being their premier model starting in 1935.

In 1929, C.G. Conn of Elkhart, Indiana bought both Leedy and Ludwig & Ludwig and moved them both to Elkhart. A new drum line--Leedy-Ludwig--was formed. Leedy had done business with Ludwig for many years. So did Slingerland.

When William F. Ludwig insisted on overseeing operations as he had always done for Ludwig & Ludwig, Conn sent him packing back to Chicago to oversee business there but Luwig knew he was just being gotten rid of and decided there was no point to hanging around. He quit Leedy-Ludwig in the 30s to found his own company but could not use the Luwig name because Conn owned it so he used his initials instead--W.F.L. Drums out of Chicago--and these drums became quite popular.

In the 50s, W.F.L. bought back the Ludwig portion of Leedy-Ludwig and moved all the old machinery back to Chicago to be set up next to the new W.F.L. machinery and both companies merged as simply as Ludwig.


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM

As a humble washboard player I love those old drummers with woodblocks, cowbells, gongs, duck calls etc. Baby Dodds also played Swanee whistle on some tracks.
The British band Temperance Seven and its various reincarnations keep that tradition alive over here.

RtS


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 04:47 AM

Too bad recording techniques were so primitive then, because we really don't hear what these kits sounded like

If you listen to recordings of Sonny Greer and the master Chick Webb you'll hear more than a bit of bopping and clanging in the background. Gene Krupa and Louie Belsonn were rooted in the same tradition and their work pays careful attention. Best of all, the great jazz drummers - Max Roach, obviously, and the people they inspired, such as Milford Graves and Famadou Don Moye.

The toms were called "Chinese toms" where the heads were riveted on and were rather shallow compared to today's toms.

Those really are Chinese drums. In the UK back in the 70s you could buy them for a few quid a Ray Man's in London. These days such things cost a little more, but I've still got a couple I bought back then & they still sound pretty good. An friend of mine used to keep his grandfather's old drum trap in the garden shed - he'd been a music hall & dance band drummer in the 1920s and had tons of Chinese drums, gongs, woodblocks, & cymbals - just like you see in these pictures. Most journeyman percussionists gathered and assembled their bespoke drum kits from all manner of sources before such things became standardised by commercial availability.


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 04:59 AM

Sorry - Famoudou Don Moye


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Subject: RE: I love these old drum kits.
From: josepp
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:54 AM

////As a humble washboard player I love those old drummers with woodblocks, cowbells, gongs, duck calls etc. Baby Dodds also played Swanee whistle on some tracks.
The British band Temperance Seven and its various reincarnations keep that tradition alive over here.////

The hi-hat totally changed the way drums are played. A lot of drummers today wouldn't know what to do without one.

////If you listen to recordings of Sonny Greer and the master Chick Webb you'll hear more than a bit of bopping and clanging in the background.////

I'm well acquainted with Chick Webb and Sonny Greer. I'm talking about the stuff from the 20s like the two links I provided. Even with the Webb's stuff, you don't hear the tom separation very well so you still can't appreciated his technique the way a digital recording would have afforded. But he was a hell of a drummer and most people don't even know that he was crippled.


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