Player - ist?

Subject: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM

I'm looking for definitions to describe players of various musical instruments.

Many already exist & are commonly used.

Pianist
Guitarist
Violinist
Fiddler
Accordionist
etc

Alternatively, the word 'player' is added to the instrument name.

Just adding the suffix 'ist' doesn't work well with some instrument names, such as 'concertinaist'

Are there any proper nouns for specific kinds of instrumentalists?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:02 AM

I'm thinking of one, but I'm sure I'll not be allowed to post it ....

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:06 AM

Who do you need to ask permission?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:23 AM

Banjoleer.
Qquck!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:26 AM

It seems to me that the most awkward instrument names to add 'ist' to are those ending with a vowel, such as:

Concertina
Viola
Ocarina
Piccolo
Tuba
Bazuki

Some other instrumentalists have the suffix 'er' added to their instrument name as in 'drummer' but this wouldn't do for many other uses

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:27 AM

Banjoleer?

Sounds like a facial affliction!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:40 AM

My friend Bev Whelan once suggested that "contortionist" would be an appropriate name for a concertina player. I'm not sure what aspect of my playing she had in mind!

Ross

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:59 AM

LOL!!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: gnomad
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:25 AM

Flautist

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM

For more than two syllables, one could take off final vowel & add -ist: e.g. concertinist ~ and even, sometimes just for 2 syllables, which is what one does, after all, for cello.

But doesn't sound right for all ~ banjist: no, not really. Nor violist. Nor tubist.

Adding a letter, as in lutenist, can work sometimes.

All a matter of what sounds right, as always: that thing called "The genius of the language"....

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: treewind
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:53 AM

"violist" is correct for a viola player.

At least I've seen/heard the term used.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:53 AM

Flautist is of course the usual nomenclature for those of us who, in the immortal words of Monty Python, blow in one end and waggle our fingers up and down - but I do like the American flutist as well.

I've also been referred to as a concertinist, which somehow seems to work better than concertinaist. Personally I tend to refer to myself as a 'flute player' and a 'concertina player' - and with my third and fourth hats on, neither 'low whistler' nor 'low whistlist' seem right, whilst rauschpfeifer is perfect ...

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Tootler
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:58 AM

Michael, you just beat me to it.

As someone who plays a concertina, I would call myself a concertinist (when playing concertina that is). When playing recorder I would add "player" rather than use recorderist or recordist as the first is clumsy and the second is normally applied to someone who makes recordings.

Of course violist doesn't work for someone who plays violin because it is the name for someone who plays a different instrument, namely the viol.

Otherwise I entirely agree with what you say but would add that it can also be a matter of context as with the recorder example above.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:12 AM

The correct title for a man who CAN play a banjo or an accordian and DOESNT is surely 'Gentleman' !

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:36 AM

Adding '-ed' to the end of any vowel indicates over-indulgence of alcoholic beverages...

;o)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:36 AM

Vowel? I meant noun, of course...!!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:57 PM

for the concertina...if you a girl
'concertinarina'
or for melodeon 'melodeonista'
;)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:15 PM

Why not be traditional about it. In jazz, no matter what instrument you use, you "blow" it----in country music, you "pick" it. So if a piano player is doing jazz, he "blows piano"; if it's country, hi "picks piano". Simple.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: PHJim
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:18 PM

Autoharpy

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:20 PM

Hi,

Concertinist, violist, ocarinist, piccolist, and tubist are all used by the people involved. I fear a bazukist might play the bazuka, rather than the bazuki, though. However, in the spelling of "bouzoukist" that ist-me is in self-use too. The person playing a banjo is a "banjoist", but "banjist" is used as well. 100% for cut and paste, so far.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:41 AM

But, Mysha, does your violist play a viol or a viola?

I think we should be told...

~M~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:49 AM

The viol (also known as the Viola da gamba) is any one of a family of bowed, fretted and stringed musical instruments developed in the mid-late 15th century ...

Viols are different in several respects from instruments of the violin family.

Viols most commonly had six strings, although many 16th-century instruments had five or even four strings. Viols were (and are) strung with (low-tension) gut strings, unlike the steel strings used by members of the modern violin family. Gut strings produce a sonority far different from steel, the former generally described as softer and sweeter. Around 1660, gut or silk core strings overspun with copper wire first became available; these were then used for the lowest-pitched bass strings on viols, and on many other string instruments as well. Viols are fretted in a manner similar to early guitars or lutes, by means of movable wrapped-around and tied-on gut frets. A low seventh string was supposedly added in France to the bass viol by Monsieur de Sainte-Colombe (c. 1640–1690), whose students included the French gamba virtuoso and composer Marin Marais. Also, the painting Saint Cecilia with an Angel (1618) by Domenichino (1581–1641) shows what may be a seven-string viol.

Unlike members of the violin family, which are tuned in fifths, viols are usually tuned in fourths with a major third in the middle, mirroring the tuning employed on the vihuela de mano and lute during the 16th century and similar to that of the modern six-string guitar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viol

The viola (not to be confused with viol) (pronounced /viˈoʊlə/ or /vaɪˈoʊlə/[1]) is a bowed string instrument. It is the middle voice of the violin family, between the violin and the cello.

The viola is similar in material and construction to the violin but is larger in size and more variable in its proportions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:20 AM

Thanks, The Fooles Troupe ~~ tho I knew that already.

But it doesn't go any way to answering my ? to Mysha as to which one a 'violist' plays.

I still think we should be told.

~M~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: GUEST,Tim
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:29 AM

Celestist

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:36 AM

I quite like the idea of using the German "spieler" (player) - adds a certain formality and class, I think. as in:

Ocarinaspieler
Tubaspieler
Piccolospieler
Potatopeelerspieler

etc.

Danke!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:56 AM

is there such a thing as a 'spoonist'? Or would [s]he be a 'spoonsist?

~M~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: cooperman
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:12 AM

I love the old joke where this guy is looking after a little guy just one foot tall who can play the piano. Asked how it came about the guy says I met a genie and was granted a wish. Trouble is I didn't ask for a 12 inch pianist.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:22 AM

Don't think I'd like to be referred to as 'the vilest'!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:35 AM

Flautist is of course the usual nomenclature for those of us who, in the immortal words of Monty Python, blow in one end and waggle our fingers up and down - but I do like the American flutist as well.

There is also, of course, fluter as in Phil The Fluter's ball

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 08:02 AM

Back in 2002 we had a quiz with instrument names. For those who didn'y see it then, it's Here

Cheers

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 08:16 AM

Concertina   small wardrobe player...

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:05 AM

Shaky eggist?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:10 AM

Hi M,

We were working on the assumption that we would have to cut of any trailing vowels and paste on "ist". So, from "viola" and "violin" we get "viol-" and "violin" (surprise). To that we add "-ist" for "violist" and "violinist". So, a "violist" would be someone who plays the viola, and a "violinist" would be someone who plays the violin. And they are.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM

So then, M, who, please, plays a viol?

Hello again.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:28 AM

Mouth organist?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:54 AM

Hi M,

Assuming you're not talking to yourself, you must be asking me about the player of a viola da gamba. In several languages I know, "viol" in various spellings is actually the word for what English calls the "violin", hence the misunderstanding.

The musician playing on a viola da gamba is called a "gambist". Was there a specific reason for asking, or did you just not have a reference work handy?

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:11 PM

I can hardly move for ref works, Mysha. So I reach out & pick up the nearest, which happens to be Chambers; & find:

"any member of a class of stringed instruments, tuned in fourths and thirds, forerunners of the violin class..."

Note that 'ANY', ~~ the 'de gamba' is then joined by the 'de braccio'; the 'd'amore'; the 'de spalla'; the 'de-gamboys'; ~~ all *viols* ~~

~~ so what do you call anyone who plays any, or all, or just one, of those, eh?

I am not interested in your multi-linguicity, thank you, Mr Better-Informed-And-Far-More-Gifted--Than-The-Rest-Of-Us. Just answer the question as it concerns the English word "viol", in any or all of its variants, please.

... and I should recommend giving up being a Smartarse: it ill becomes you.

And I hope it keeps fine for you too...

~M~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:16 PM

flautist. violist, bassist, aviatrix (oops)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: RunrigFan
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:28 PM

tromba marinaist

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:47 PM

Hi,

M: I have no idea what you find so problematic about my apology for misunderstanding you.
Other than that, indeed, I did give that information mostly from the top of my head, not owning much music-specific reference works, and I would not have done so at all if you hadn't specifically asked me about it. The equivalence between viol and viola da gamba was not mine, but was quoted by The Fooles Troupe, and I understood it to be the intention of your question as you wrote that you knew already.

Anyone else: Could anyone explain what I'm missing here, because in one message this thread has turned sour for me, and I don't even know why?

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 02:36 PM

contra-bass sarrousaphoner?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 02:44 PM

I'm rather fond of how of how 'banjoleer' sounds. maybe I'd spell the ending as in 'gondolier'. Which, not necessarily a good thing, opens up the matter of gender-nouns so women banjo players could be 'banjolières'.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Ernest
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM

Banjero?

Lagerphonist?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:45 PM

There used to be a band called Troys and his Banjoliers on the wireless a long time ago

Joe Nicholson

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:47 PM

There is a local group called "The Tacoma Mandoleers"

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 09:15 PM

"We were working on the assumption that we would have to cut of any trailing vowels and paste on "ist". So, from "viola" and "violin" we get "viol-" and "violin" (surprise). To that we add "-ist" for "violist" and "violinist". So, a "violist" would be someone who plays the viola, and a "violinist" would be someone who plays the violin. And they are."

Whence means that a player of the 'viol da gamba' is ...

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 09:21 PM

"because in one message this thread has turned sour for me, and I don't even know why?"

That's easy. Noone intended to attack you. This is the nature of virtual discussion - without body language and tone of voice symbols, communication can go awry and misunderstandings occur. I expected some confusion with viol, viola, violin, especially among the less experienced.

I have just been trying to remove the unwanted full stop in a sentence. to find out that my laptop screen has now just developed a 'dead pixel'.... sigh ...

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: David Ingerson
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 10:29 PM

Here's a little distinction that I've come across (although I'm no expert): someone who plays a classical harp is a harpist; someone who plays a folk harp is a harper. That distinction might hold for flute players, too: flutist (or flautist) and fluter.

Cheers,

David

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:07 AM

Someone who scrapes a horse's tail across a cat's inside for 'folk music purposes' is a fiddler?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:35 AM

Bodhránista.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:37 AM

Hi Joe - the spelling was Troise and his Banjoliers. I lewrned Whistling Fufus from a '78rpm and a wind up gramophone a friend had rescued. There is a bit of info about Troise at this link :-
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20090124122940/http://www.nfo.net/cal/tt3.html - scroll down through other artistes.
There are currently a couple of sound recordings on Youtube Minstrel Tunes and Whistling Rufus.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:40 AM

Talking about spelling - don't know what happened to mine! I actually LEARNED WHISTLING RUFUS and not what appears above...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:06 AM

Hurdy-gurdler?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:33 AM

Tromboner!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM

Thanks for the link with Troise Geoffe it really took me back.I seem to remember they used to get half an hour airtime at half past three just after Music While You Work

Joe Nicholson

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:39 PM

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha - PM
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:47 PM

Hi,

M: I have no idea what you find so problematic about my apology for misunderstanding you.
Other than that, indeed, I did give that information mostly from the top of my head, not owning much music-specific reference works, and I would not have done so at all if you hadn't specifically asked me about it. The equivalence between viol and viola da gamba was not mine, but was quoted by The Fooles Troupe, and I understood it to be the intention of your question as you wrote that you knew already.

Anyone else: Could anyone explain what I'm missing here, because in one message this thread has turned sour for me, and I don't even know why?

I understand precisely what Michael MtheGM is getting at and what his problem is.

In normal English usage, the term "viol" is used for any member of the family of six string bowed instruments that are played supported on the lap - or between the knees in the case of larger members of the family.

I agree with his contention that we would expect the player of such an instrument to be referred to as a "violist". You have contended (implicitly rather than explicitly, admittedly) that this term is reserved purely for someone who plays viola. In fact the term is probably correct for players of both instruments and it will depend on context as to which is the case at any particular time. If it's the London Symphony Orchestra then it will be viola; if it's an early music ensemble then it will be viols.

Viola da gamba in common usage refers specifically to the bass viol, usually when played in a baroque ensemble rather than in renaissance one when the term bass viol is commonly used. The viola da gamba was the norm in the early baroque but was gradually replaced by the cello. I have seen "gambist" used to refer to the player of viola da gamba.

As Michael rightly points out there is a range of other viols both with English and Italian names.

I do agree, though, there is considerable scope for confusion as there have been a wide variety of bowed string instruments over the centuries with an even larger variety of names for them.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:14 PM

So you see Mr Happy, what you may think of as a 'simple question' can have overwhelming ramifications to those of us who are 'excessively educated' ... :-)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 04:57 AM

Let me say that I am very grieved to have caused Mysha distress, or in any way made the thread go 'sour' on him

There were a couple of phrases in his post to me -

("Assuming you're not talking to yourself," --
"did you just not have a reference work handy?")

which I interpreted as somewhat truculent, or at least argumentative, in tone, and replied in what I regarded as an appropriately disputatious fashion. If I over-interpreted his intention, I do sincerely apologise for his finding my response more aggressive than was warranted by the occasion. I have no desire to quarrel seriously with anyone on this forum ~~ I have learnt better over the years!

Pax, then? ~~

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 06:27 AM

FT,

'So you see Mr Happy, what you may think of as a 'simple question' can have overwhelming ramifications.....'

*********

Nothing's ever 'simple' on Mudcat! 8-)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 06:51 AM

In the 50s and 60s (and it may well still be the case) it was the practice in Suffolk to refer to all instruments as a Music; hence 'He yu got yu music wi yu, bo?' simply referred to an instrument, not bits of paper with dots on.
That being so, only one agent noun is required. However please note the noun is not musician, but, as Harry Cox, albeit born north of Diss, would have it - musicianer!

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: GUEST,Young Buchan Cookieless
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 06:52 AM

Sorry. The above from me.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM

Mandola?

Crwth?

Crumhorn?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:02 PM

Shawm?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:37 PM

Mornington Crescent!


Sorry, wrong thread :)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mysha
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 01:30 PM

Hi M,

Gosh,

I just wrote that because you addressed me as M, whilst that is your own nick: M. (the M.G.)

Tootler seems to say that gambist isn't as normal elsewhere as it is for me. If I would have known that, I wouldn't have joked about you not reaching it through the synonym that The Fooles Troupe has mentioned. I was just giving you a way out; You could have confirmed it literally or indeed made a joke out of it.

I just post to add the information that I have; sometimes I ask. I don't post to quarrel or be argumentative, or whatever, communication is difficult enough without that.

Sure, pax, I have no quarrel with you.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE
Mr Happy

Nothing's ever 'simple' on Mudcat! 8-)
UNQUOTE

But some people do seem to have an unconscious talent... :-)

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 03:58 AM

Didgeridoodler?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:52 AM

I remember living in Bundaberg in the 1960s when there was a (comic - April 1) fuss about whether the residents should be called Bundabergians or Bundabergundians.

The latter seemed to be preferred by those who did not wish to sound like some variety of hamburger.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:03 AM

Someone once suggested, might have been myself, that a good name for a spoons player would be PRAT and a Kazoo player Major Prat

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:51 AM

Glockenspiel?

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: Max Johnson
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:17 AM

I have a soprano cornemuse, but I never play it on the concert stage because:
a) I wouldn't know how to describe what I was, instrumentally speaking, and
2) I'm rubbish at playing it.

It has a lovely sound though.

Subject: RE: Player - ist?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:47 AM

I have a soprano cornemuse, but I never play it on the concert stage because:
a) I wouldn't know how to describe what I was, instrumentally speaking,

A cornemusement? I really think that's one for the 'cornemuse player' approach. Lovely instruments, must dig mine out from wherever it's got to.