David Kidman: An Apology

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: GUEST,A reason for a pseudonym
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:32 AM

Excuse me, Mr, Nutty, but is that your real name?

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:35 AM

Guest,ARFAP, the idea is to use a consistent name, a "handle". Whether you use your REAL name isn't an issue most of the time.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: stallion
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:49 PM

Just to let everyone know, although I have Pm'd dave to tell him, I found his crit of our stuff remarkably accurate although it took me a while to hear it myself. The bummer is, on the strength of that, i would like to go back and do it again! So if I missled anyone into believing otherwise than I apologise
Peter

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Wullie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:48 PM

Hi Dave,
          I know the ideal penance for you. Come to our folk club at Wrenthorpe as soon as you can I always enjoy your perfomances as do most of the club .
   Billy Martin

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: GUEST,ARFAP
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:15 PM

Jeri   The point I was making is that people at the head of the thread seemed to take the attitude that there is something wrong if people don't use their real names.

There can sometimes be a good reason for lying low, and no, I don't like it and I don't like having to do it.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM

"One time I was publicly attacked on open forum, and the culprit would only apologise via PM, which typifies what I'm on about."

Ah! So just publish the apology in the original thread... ;-)

Some people seem to have a delusion that some special 'right of privacy' exists for PMs and emails - A certain little potty mouth here thought he could do that to me via PMs after pressure on him to stop that in open threads - boy did he scream about 'infringement of his privacy' when I published his foulness in an open thread - oh and the moderators tried to delete it, but I was able to post more often and more fast than they could delete it, till they got the hint. He finally left here soon after.

I'll happily publish such a private apology for public abuse, publicly.

They won't keep on playing THAT clever game once the word gets out Dear! :-)

But then having been trained for many years by absolute nasty a*s in the art of bullying, now when I walk thru the Valley of The Shadow of Evil, I fear none, as, thanks to them, I can now happily assume at any moment, without any long terms guilt, the Mantle of the Meanest Bastard in the Valley! Did study theater too, that helps...

:-)

All 'Niceness' is only a Social Veneer, scratch it hard enough for long enough, and it suddenly flakes away from everybody. Sadly.

Pick a constant id and stick to it - if you don't want it to be your real name, that's Fine.

Robin

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Alan Day
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:32 PM

Well done David for sorting things out.
Welcome to the use your own name club.
Al

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:08 PM

Well David you and Jim were excellent on Wednesday at Morley Folk Club. I was amazed at how much work you and Jim had obviously put into preparing for the night. Two 45 minute sessions are not easy and needs much hard work to make it succeed as you both in my opinion did.
The choice of songs and poetry was well considered and the planning behind the flow from one to the next, spot on. The variety of authors and song writers kept me and I am sure the others present well entertained. There were some I knew and others I listened to for the first time.
There was even one from one of the contributors to this thread,George Papavgeris which I particularly enjoyed.
First time at the Morley Folk Club but it wont be the last. I liked the way I was welcomed, the singing and playing of all present and even got chance to sing a couple of songs myself.
It was truly a "folk night" and the way you both presented your material, with feeling was as it should be.
Dennis

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Nick
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 06:58 PM

I think I'd apologise every month - it's great publicity.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:45 AM

Cynic lol

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: stallion
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 04:43 AM

Obviously met Nick before! nice to see you the other week you owd rascal
Pete

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Nick
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 05:25 AM

And good to see you too :)

I'm sure David will know I'm kidding

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: GUEST,Gloria
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:02 AM

A mini soap-opera - quite entertaining,and maybe even instructive once I can work out what the lessons might be! Maybe its just - dont get caught out.Self-promotion is everywhere - maybe less in the folk world than other forms of music,or literature - chat programmes on radio or tv are almost entirely filled by people plugging their latest book or whatever.Its all ever so slightly naff - but were told we have to do it.Otherwise we'd have to spend time getting so good at what we do that people would come to see us anyway - as I would say Nic Jones did (but almost no-one has since).
You sang well on thursday David - but if you go to Wrenthorpe again - better leave out the Fields of Athenry parody!Good to see you on here "Wullie"!

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Shantyfreak
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:33 AM

This thread has been an interesting but not entertaining read.
Not having viewed the initial thread I cannot comment on that but I have known Dave both as Dave k and the Moorley man for years and know him as painfully honest. It comes as no surprise therefore to read what he said at the head of this thread.
As for those who ask/demand pennance I think that too has been done here.
But what about this business of using a "handle" as opposed to real names.
Who really cares?
We chose the "handle" we wish to be known by and it is usually unique. We are given our given names (naturally) and they are not unique. I'm Jimmy Saville and am suprisingly often mistaken in print for a certain older Yorkshire man. I am better known around the web as Shantyfreak and so that's what I use here and will continue to use to avoid similar confusion.
I know some of the people on this thread in real life (however they sign on here) and a few more by their "handle". The rest, however they sign themselves, are unknowns and might as well be anonymous. Does that bother me? No.
So lets all put down our sticks and stones, all pick up our rattles, and all have fun because IMHO that's what mud-cats are about; not fighting like alley-cats!
Jim
PS
Thanks for those comments from Dennis the Elder. Given what has been going on here I think conflict was an apt though unplanned title. >:)
Jim

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Nick
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:02 PM

I don't think this is a thread about self promotion. It was a thread about promoting oneself in the third person. Andrew/Crane Driver expressed it in the other thread.

In the bigger scheme of things it's not very important.

Publicise yourself or get someone else to publicise you. But reviewing yourslf favourably in the third person is quite weird - and unnecessary. A lot of people know who you are/were and were probably surprised - it's why I contacted you (in a good natured way) privately.

I'm guessing the thread went wrong when you maintained the third person rather than saying 'I was just publicising me'.

No harm done.

You could perhaps be your own MC and introuce yourself in the third person and then come on and be the same (or different person - I'm confusing mself now) which would be quite entertaining and perhaps work itself up into an interesting act.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Nick
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:23 PM

Joe

>>I've been using my real name at Mudcat since January, 1997. Trouble is, some people can't believe that "Joe Offer" is a real name....

If you happened to have a wife and two children and came from sarf London - would you be "Joe and the free Offers"?

Enough to shut any fread that...

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Pistachio
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:54 PM

If anyone wants confirmation: Nutty is one of the Hazels' on Mudcat and I am another! We used a nut name to stay close to the real thing!

Hazel Richings
Scot, living in Yorkshire
Half of Hissyfit!

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: stallion
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:59 PM

Oh, since we are all coming out, I am Peter Outhart, one third of Two Black Sheep & a Stallion, I was the one drinking "Stallion" the night we acquired the name, sadly the only qualification I have for the title/handle. BTW, nice to see Gloria in Mudcat.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 02:54 AM

Just for the record I have followed both threads from the very start and have not posted here at all in my name or any other!

I wasn't at Barnsley folk club for the "hot spot" being unwell, but as is well known I have known David for some years

In my view singing accappella is not easy and takes many years to get anywhere and depends on what you have when you start and is independent of musical instruments ability etc

David has a very clinical understanding of songs and a clear view of English language as it is written and a masterly ability to cross reference songs, tunes and singers that have been recorded in reviews

He does make mistakes and some times makes assumptions which are not correct (I refer to some on reviewing my Cds, of course!)he is prone to over statement and emphasis on occasion and in doing so can cause offence. Reviewing is about an overview of what has been presented by the performer, who wants to sell his/her CD to listen to! Cds cost money to create!

David has been very keen to become accepted as a singer and a person, for it is that that folk song is about as well as the ability to sing the words as printed.

He is not blessed with a pefect singing voice, he needs to learn songs and not read from notes, he needs to sing the songs in and look at nuances and hopefully pass these feelings from the words and songs to his audience ~ he is aware of this but tends to do this to exaggeration, natural is preferred

The folk community takes a long time to accept people on occasion and if you stick out from the rest can put peoples backs up!

Hope this is fair!

Ray Padgett

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 06:15 AM

The folk community takes a long time to accept people on occasion and if you stick out from the rest can put peoples backs up!

Is that something to be proud of I wonder? It's certainly true though, quite shamefully so at times, but I don't suppose it's any different now to when the so-called Folk Community first came into being - i.e. sprung up overnight, and quite unchanging ever since, but that's its nature - to be as consevative as it is precious over its lack of provenance and, dare I say, tradition.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Tyke
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 09:29 AM

Hi Ray I tend to agree with most of what you wrote. I would only differ with " He is not blessed with a perfect singing voice ". I have heard Dave sing a French Sea Chantey in French. He sang it so well I wanted to complement him on his rendition of it. But Dave was at the end of the night all over the Guest Like a Rash trying to Blag a CD to review so I did not get the chance.

I have thought about Dave the possible reasons for the marked difference in his delivery of this song. I came to the conclusion that Dave had actually as you pointed out learned this song and because he was concentrating on its French Pronunciation, it stopped him from, singing with his mouth closed this is what normally restricts his voice. As you were pointing out Ray singing from a Book unless you hold it very high causes singers to restrict their voice and transmit it down into the carpet. The Carpet on other obstructions does tend to kill the tonal qualities of ones voice. Singer not reading from a book is also able to make eye contact with the audience and to add some feeling to their song.

Please think about my last comment, everyone!, as nobody could say that Bob Dylan has or had a great singing voice without the feelings, passion and belief in what he sings.
George Clarke

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: DavidKidman
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 06:47 PM

Well, the dust has settled now, and I've had time for reflection. I've also been considering our esteemed Moderator Joe Offer's timely suggestion -

>>...that it could be better for you to keep posting as "MoorleyMan,"<< ...(since) >>Your identity as "MoorleyMan" is already well-established here....<<

I have decided on balance to take Joe's advice and reinstate my MoorleyMan handle, while keeping the own-name membership open in parallel (for the time being, at least).
This action can do no harm now that there is no secret about my ID. I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I have anything to hide.

Thanks to all for their useful comments.

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Nick
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:20 PM

And I have decided to become Furious Bandersnatch

Subject: RE: David Kidman: An Apology
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 10:40 AM

"And I have decided to become Furious Bandersnatch"

Wasn't the Bandersnatch Frumious?