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BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion

GUEST,CS 02 May 12 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,CS 02 May 12 - 01:13 PM
VirginiaTam 02 May 12 - 01:07 PM
VirginiaTam 02 May 12 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,CS 02 May 12 - 12:02 PM
VirginiaTam 02 May 12 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,CS 02 May 12 - 10:54 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 02 May 12 - 09:23 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 May 12 - 08:41 AM
VirginiaTam 02 May 12 - 08:27 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 29 Mar 12 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 29 Mar 12 - 11:58 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 12 - 11:44 AM
Bonzo3legs 29 Mar 12 - 09:44 AM
theleveller 29 Mar 12 - 06:04 AM
Bonzo3legs 29 Mar 12 - 05:00 AM
theleveller 28 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM
Richard Bridge 28 Mar 12 - 05:14 AM
SPB-Cooperator 28 Mar 12 - 03:52 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 12 - 08:13 PM
Max 27 Mar 12 - 07:44 PM
VirginiaTam 27 Mar 12 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Bluesman 27 Mar 12 - 05:24 PM
VirginiaTam 27 Mar 12 - 05:04 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 12 - 03:49 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 12 - 03:47 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 12 - 03:46 PM
VirginiaTam 27 Mar 12 - 03:35 PM
Richard Bridge 27 Mar 12 - 02:27 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 12 - 01:54 PM
GUEST,Bluesman 27 Mar 12 - 11:09 AM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 12 - 11:03 AM
Bonzo3legs 27 Mar 12 - 09:42 AM
theleveller 27 Mar 12 - 09:34 AM
theleveller 27 Mar 12 - 09:07 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 12 - 07:20 AM
theleveller 27 Mar 12 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,Bluesman 27 Mar 12 - 05:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Mar 12 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,CS 14 Mar 12 - 01:57 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 12 - 01:51 PM
VirginiaTam 14 Mar 12 - 11:05 AM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Mar 12 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Bluesman 14 Mar 12 - 07:32 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 12 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,Bluesman 14 Mar 12 - 04:36 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 12 - 03:59 AM
Stilly River Sage 14 Mar 12 - 01:29 AM
GUEST,Bluesman 13 Mar 12 - 08:20 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Mar 12 - 07:16 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 12 - 01:21 PM

Yep - sorry for wandering off topic!


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 12 - 01:13 PM

Commuting adds to cost: yes I understand there would be some increase in fares (a return train journey from HatPev to Chelmsford = £5) but how does that work compare to a taxi's back and forth every day? If you used a mobility scooter, you can -I'm pretty certain- take one on Greater Anglia (service provider for the line) trains, and then use to travel to work from train.

As for salability of your place, well, it is a difficult climate I know.

Like I said though, the ATOS tests simply test for what you actually DO - even if you only do it sometimes, and even if it hurts when you sometimes do it. It really is that black and white. Increasingly few people are eligible for DLA now. Vast majority of claims are rejected.

Best thing to do is to take it to appeal, and get an advocate to help you do so - go to CAB for advice and assistance on that one. But don't hold your breath :-/


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 May 12 - 01:07 PM

just occurred to me last post really bad thread drift... sorry


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 May 12 - 12:54 PM

One flight of steps to first floor flat.

We can't afford anything within commuting distance especially since commuting adds to the cost. We only were able to get this flat because it needed so much work (still does).   Only about 42 years left on ground lease which will cost us up to 15,000 to buy up to 99 years. Flat won't sell at all unless we finish the work needed and buy up those years on the lease.

The examiner probably got me on my truthful answer to grocery shopping. When I do attend with TSO, I lean on the trolley for support, because I don't know how to drive the mobility scooters provided. That is more than 100 metres. Shopping that should take a half hour takes an hour+ when I go along. But I did say the TSO goes without me lately because I just can't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 12 - 12:02 PM

Unfortunately the fact you live in a flat and consequently traverse two flights of stairs daily (however achieved) is I would think, likely to mitigate against any successful claim for DLA. Based on the GP's assessment of the likelihood of worsening of condition, and that lack of space means you're unable to store a scooter which might make short journeys alone viable, it would seem that living in flat is going to become increasingly unsustainable. Sounds like it's time to seriously weigh up the pros and cons of relocating to somewhere else until retirement. Possibly moving farther out of Chelmsford, but remaining on the main line, where house prices will be that bit lower?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/disabled_passengers/wheelchairs_scooters.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 May 12 - 11:22 AM

The NHS has money to pay part of transport costs to diagnostic appointments only (on NHS approved premises) if referred by your GP. This is meted out per PCT and then per GP surgery based some formula to do with demographics and I believe means tested. As I have a full time job I don't think available to me.

My GP is just shy of 500 metres from our flat. Should take only 6 minutes to walk. It takes me 20+ minutes to and another 20+ home after which I am usually in tears and dreading the climb of one flight of stairs to the flat. Once it took me 40 minutes in cold wind and rain. I have to plan not to go anywhere the next day, so I can recover. Take lots of pain killers and not move too much.

What taxi company would bother to transport me such a short distance?

Looking at more things on this ATOS report.

I have to go down and up the stairs sideways, one step at a time holding onto rail with both hands because my hips are so bad I am afraid I will fall. My ATOS report says I am not likely to fall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 12 - 10:54 AM

"more than 90% of days from October 2011 until today have been bad days."

ATOS are only interested in the remaining 10% of "good days". Unfortunately it's that very 10% which renders you ineligible. Black or white: can walk or can't walk. There are no shades of grey where illness is concerned for these tests. That's the way they are composed. Bit like a multiple choice ..with only two answers!
Fortunately there is an appeal process, where a real human being assesses the evidence - I believe that around 40% of cases taken to appeal, win. Though they are slow, if the case is won, monies will be backdated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 May 12 - 09:23 AM

I'm really sorry, too, Tam. You don't deserve this to happen to you. This bloody government! What they are doing incenses me beyond belief...

Is there any form of local free transport, run by volunteers? Your Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help....or the medical practice you go to...


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 12 - 08:41 AM

I am so sorry for your situation Tam.
It is very unfair.
You do deserve help.
keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 May 12 - 08:27 AM

Today I received my report from ATOS examination done 23 April for my DLA application. I am officially a failed free loader.

So all you tax paying benefits doubting folk can rest easy. I won't be drawing any mobility component which is what I most needed.

Needed because I cannot walk more than 40 metres on bad days. Needed because more than 90% of days from October 2011 until today have been bad days. Needed because my doctors have told me I am not going to get better now. Probably only worse. And if the last 6 days are any indication they are correct. So I will continue to pay up to £500.00 out of pocket for taxi fares to and from medical appointments. Never mind just going out on my own.

At least I am not free loader. And the taxes your government takes from me (I have worked full time since I arrived in this country) and you can do some good. Like padding the deserving rich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 12:02 PM

Aren't you guys LUCKY to be able to BUY petrol in the first place. Aren't you LUCKY to be able to afford to run a car.

Many cannot afford to buy food by the end of the month....

Remember them..


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 11:58 AM

"Abuse of the benefits system IS widespread, why else would the government be introducing reforms ?"

This government is facist.

In the short time it has been in power, it has flooded the media with stories of 'scroungers'. Their main aim has been to turn person against person, and...they have succeeded.

Of course, in doing this, they've completely taken the spotlight away from themselves and their own deep dishonesty in how they were all claiming massive amounts of money from the taxpayer, ILLEGALLY, thus being the biggest Scroungers ever going.

Most of the population seems unable to see what they are doing.

Once, I lived in a country that cared for people when they hit rock bottom. It offered them a hand of hope.

Yes, this has been abused by some, but more often than not these people are the very ones who have been abused by the way society has become..

The young teenage Mums, who know they only hope they'll ever of getting a flat/house of their own is to become pregnant. Most loathe their children and the children grow up unloved, unwanted and cost society a fortune for one reason or another.

Those who learn differently, forced into a system which demands that all are the same. Branded FAILURE very early on in life, turning to drink and drugs as soon as they can to block out the anger, the torturous confusion and lack of hope.

The elderly, a lifetime of work behind many of them, now made to feel they MUST work into the mid 60's and beyond, despite the terrible aches and pains that come with older age sometimes..

And all the time the government pours on The Waters of Guilt, in the most relentless project I've ever seen...

Torquay is filled with many who have no hope of EVER breaking out of The System. Trapped into no jobs, or low-income jobs which they are forced to take.......

Those who literally would starve to death if their benefit was taken from them now are made to feel like lepers, filthy disgusting lepers...

I am sick of it all!

I am FAR MORE SICK of the SICK minds who are creating this NEW Society were scorn and hatred have replaced Love and Compassion...

"Why should ***I*** pay for YOU!?!?!?!" now rings out across my Land..

The answer has always been "Because if YOU need help each of us is there in some way to help YOU when you are down and hope-less"

Now beefy security guards line our job centres where worn out staff try to cope with people in tears, who know they CANNOT live on £67.50 a week..

In decades the Job Seekers Allowance has risen by pennies, but the cost of living has risen by hundreds/thousands of pounds...

In this town many faces are sunken, through drugs, drink, lack of food, lack of hope. Young people with no teeth, black teeth, poor hair which speaks of bad nutrition, lack of self-worth, lack of self-belief, trapped inside a system that has no interest in helping them to live a full and happy life......

And meanwhile, out in the harbour the sun shines down on Million Pound Yachts of the Rich And Wealthy Few who give Fuck All for those within their town, walking round in their shell suits and second hand clothing......

I am sick of people who give Fuck All. I am sick of the I'm Alright Jacks! They are sick and selfish people, so up their own arses that they may never see the real meaning of life, which is that ALL are Equal, ALL are Related, ALL should be Loved and Cared For...

They exist merely to sneer, to look down upon and to write on messageboards about the low life who are cheating the system.......

Well, they voted these fascist bastards into power, so if now they too are finding that even their families are being denied Disability Allowance, by private companies who are PAID for EVERY SINGLE PERSON THEY REMOVE FROM THE LIST, I have no sympathy whatsoever...for they have nest eggs to fall back on, private pensions etc, so although it is somewhat inconvenient for them, for others it is Life, or Death...and for many it will soon become Death.

My Dad went to war AGAINST people like this. He went to war for a BETTER world. I am glad he's passed on, for to see his country reduced to this Incompassionate State would literally break his gentle heart..


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 11:44 AM

How can I possibly panic-buy petrol when all the bloody jerry cans have been panic-bought?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 09:44 AM

Just paid 141.9 per litre in Coulsdon, Surrey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 06:04 AM

I tried to fill up last night and my usual petrol station had no unleaded or diesel. I had to drive several miles to find some - and pay 5p a litre more. Oh Mr Maude, you are such a prat!


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 05:00 AM

And you have a nice day too - even if we do have to queue up for petrol, which I refuse to do and will use public transport (very inconvenient) once my petrol tank shows 1/4 full.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM

"We don't all dislike each other though"

I do! I hate the bloody lot of you - every last one. In fact, may the curse of Mary Malone and her nine blind, illegitimate children chase you so far over the Hills of Damnation that the good Lord himself won't be able to find you with a telescope.

Apart from that, have a nice day! ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 05:14 AM

Oh, the allowances that are required by the Equality Act? Very good point.

Much as peace in our time might be a lovely dream I don't foresee it.

And I don't imagine a tide of "sturdy beggars".


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 03:52 AM

"Of the 9,328 people assessed so far, 2,202 were found to be capable of work and 4,262 were deemed to have some capability of work"


So who are the employers queuing up to offer 6,464 jobs that make allowances for individual's incapacities/disabilities?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:13 PM

We don't all dislike each other though. We each dislike about two or three other people, that's all. I think I might like everyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Max
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:44 PM

What is wrong with you people? Your rhetoric has clearly devolved into nothing more than a personal dislike of each other and turned your former thoughtful ideological beliefs into petty quibbling and one-upmanship. It is so clearly personal.

In my fictionalization of this that I shall implant into my memory in place of this sadsackery, one person will play the part of them all. A tale of multiple personalities who use the non-linear nature of internet forums to actually converse with each other, unprecedented until this age. An infinite loop of each identity contradicting each statement, exhausting the certainty muscles of all the others ultimately rendering every argument, contention, proposition, or conclusion completely absurd, each participant opposite AND equal, and every innocent bystander a little demoralized.

Hey look, lets pretend that tomorrow has no guarantee to come. Weirder things have happened, right? Lets live today like that were the case. Cuz you never know really, right? So I want my today to matter. I want to smile a lot. I want to notice all them things I'm usually too preoccupied to give attention to, like butterflies and morning dew, the sound of a swishing basketball, a walk in the rain with my children...

Certainly wouldn't feel like I needed to make any points before the end. But hey, who am I to judge, I'm a big dope you know. Maybe I just learned the hardest ways: Two irrational ex-wives, legitimate institutional insanity, the single most insidious torture device in the history of the Universe... can prevent a man from ever opening his mouth again. I learned that being right... doing right... may not be what it seems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:31 PM

I don't think it is widespread. I think we have an unfortunate combination of few cases highly profiled by a headline hungry media and a government that does not favour what it perceives as weak and a drain on resources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:24 PM

Abuse of the benefits system IS widespread, why else would the government be introducing reforms ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:04 PM

I don't begrudge not getting DLA when I am entitled to it because I have the means to support myself without it.

And even with it, I could NOT afford one first class holiday.

So when I say the legitimately ill and disabled, I mean those also without means to support themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:49 PM

"What steams me is even the legitimately ill and disabled are being denied"

That is exactly what my wife is finding, and she could run a medical school on her medical conditions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:47 PM

they


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:46 PM

I don't claim state benefits, I don't need them.

Well you wouldn't would you, what with your income from your unearned - sorry, inherited - wealth.


Go to any public house or betting shop this afternoon to see proof of this.

Oh, really? Did you ask all the denizens therein what money thy were using? And what were you doing there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:35 PM

I may have already shared this. I am member of a Disabled Employees Network, in which there are obviously disabled members (wheel chairs, interpreters, guide dog assisted, etc). By and large they are in agreement that the benefits system needs an overhaul. Some of them have been in presence of those who appear to be cheating the system. Claiming higher rate mobility after climbing 3 flights of steps and carrying a cane on the arm. That sort of thing.

But I don't know if they understand hidden disabilities. For example me (still waiting for DLA application sent in December or January to go through whatever hoops). I am 6 years into rheumatoid arthritis in feet, ankles, hips, fingers, hands, wrists, shoulders and neck. Recently diagnosed vitamin D deficiency and attending fybromyalgia pain all over especially in the long bones. I have good moments where I am seemingly AOK. I have horrible weeks/months when my husband has to help me with everything from brushing my hair to putting on my socks and shoes. According to the PIP assessment, I would qualify for lower rate DLA and no mobility, yet most days I cannot walk more than 40 meters.
Enter the ATOS assessor who asks me weird side blinder questions like, "What is your favorite pass time?" I say "live music sessions." Assessor says "do you perform?" I say "I can play some instruments badly and I can sing." This can (and probably will) be construed by the assessor as ability to sit for long periods, ability to concentrate and remember learned material, ability to hold and use a pen. You get my meaning.

I am fortunate in so many ways to have a job. Not the least that it keep my mind off the pain better than any medicine does. But I do need and am entitled to DLA to help me continue to work and to allow me to access something approaching a normal life. I won't moan too much if I don't get it. There are far too many people who need it more than I do. What steams me is even the legitimately ill and disabled are being denied. Some of them are committing suicide in despair. And that is a thing that should not happen in a civilised country.

This inhuman glee at another's misfortune does not look well on anyone. Sadly the current government and the media are promoting and inflaming a public hatred of the vulnerable. Whatever next? Ancient practice of exposing the sick and disabled on a rubbish heap?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 02:27 PM

Such a huge amount of ignorance there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 01:54 PM

I agree Bluesman and no doubt the loonie left will have their answer!


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 11:09 AM

It can and is abused Bonzo. Sadly the people who need it are the ones that suffer. Go to any public house or betting shop this afternoon to see proof of this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 11:03 AM

Supporting the poor ,the sick, the needy is not a "problem". It's civilisation.


Seems to me that they are very well supported!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:42 AM

Custard pie? - I would demand treacle tart of the standard my mother use to make, with custard that a spoon will stand up in!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:34 AM

OK, here's an example of the unfairness of this system which I know about because it involves a member of my family. After working full time for almost 40 years he had a nervous breakdown because of the pressures put on him at work and suffered from severe depression that left him unable to hold down a job (he tried on two occasions) and also broke up his marriage. Now, after being assessed, he's been told that he has to find a job as his disability allowance is being discontinued. He's 60 years old and hasn't worked for 4 years, so who the fuck is going to employ him in this day and age?

But, of course, we're all in this together, so he should be glad to play his part. If I had £250,000 to spare I'd have dinner with Bloody Cameron and insist that there was custard pie on the menu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:07 AM

Still sounds like hypocrisy to me. There are people who are dying who have been told that they're fit for work. This is not some sort of charity, this is people's RIGHT - just as you would claim to have a right to your pension. WTF is your problem with that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:20 AM

Social Development Minister Nelson McCausland said the reassessment of Incapacity Benefit recipients was making a real difference to the lives of people who would otherwise have been left trapped in the benefits system. It is the British taxpayer who has to foot the bill for those who opt out of working for a living.

It's making a real difference to the lives of many people who are seriously mentally or physically disabled by either removing their benefit or making them feeling extremely insecure at a time of soaring unemployment. And the British "taxpayer" funds everything from obscenely-high salaries and bonuses in private companies to the huge dividends that go into the coffers of shareholders in multi-billion-quid-profit companies. If we didn't spend our money they wouldn't exist. And I care not a jot whether the money I shell out is tax or whether it comes straight out of my pocket. It's still money. It's about time we ditched this bogus notion that it's only the public sector or benefits claimants who are beholden to the bloody "taxpayer."


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:45 AM

"government figures have indicated"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! And you believe them? Just look at the number of successful appeals and how much they are costing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 05:26 AM

More than two thirds of people receiving Incapacity Benefit in Northern Ireland are capable of doing at least some work, new government figures have indicated.

Around 76,000 recipients are currently undergoing assessment to gauge their ability to return to work. Of the 9,328 people assessed so far, 2,202 were found to be capable of work and 4,262 were deemed to have some capability of work.Around 30% - 2,864 - were found to be not capable of any work, primarily due to ill health or learning difficulties.

Social Development Minister Nelson McCausland said the reassessment of Incapacity Benefit recipients was making a real difference to the lives of people who would otherwise have been left trapped in the benefits system. It is the British taxpayer who has to foot the bill for those who opt out of working for a living.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 09:53 AM

I make no excuses for the size of my family, although some will have a go at me for bringing 5 children into the world. The reasons for doing do are no-ones business but mine so I will ignore any comments about that.

Why I bring it is is that they have a wide range of 'issues'. Aspergers Syndrome. OCD. Bullied to the stage of being frightened to go out of the hose. Glandular fever leading to ME. I loose track of the potential hurdles to a good education. Anyway, despite all that, they are all happy and caring people. Intelligent to the highest degree. Artistic and Musical.

OK - I know they are my kids so I will sing their praises. What I am most proud of them all for though is how they overcame everything thrown at them. Yes, OK, have a laugh, including having me for a Dad... I have, by proxy brought two BAs, one BSC and one BEng leading onto a Masters, into the world. None of them were ever excluded from school or subject to psycho-analysis, either by professionals or idiotic amateurs. They have all done well and I expect they will do even better in the future.

But them again had they have done otherwise I am pretty sure I would have shown them just as much love and affection and not have instantly jumped into the book of excuses shown above...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 01:57 PM

Meant to preface that. Re: Freedom Writers foundation, albeit they are primarily focused on at-risk students, part of their blurb runs in tandem with some sentiments espoused here:

"The Foundation strongly believes it's time to publicly and systematically promote an educational philosophy that honors diversity in the classroom."


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 01:51 PM

Lizzie I think you might like this film I saw the other night about one English teacher's strategies for helping a disturbed and disaffected group of American adolescents/young adults to discover the joy of literature and writing. Many if not most of her students were members of gangs and living very tough lives involving drug and gun related violence, all of whom had been found to be effectively ineducable within the normal school system. She faced stiff opposition from within her own school for adopting these alternative strategies to learning, yet upon success with a particular group, went on to continue to forge a foundation for training other teachers working with similarly challenged students, such alternative learning strategies:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0463998/

http://www.freedomwritersfoundation.org/site/c.kqIXL2PFJtH/b.5183373/k.DD8B/FWF_Home.htm

CS


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 11:05 AM

I wasn't a behaviour problem. I just didn't know what to do or how to do it in my early years. My near perfect grade point average when I finally figured out how to cope in the academic environment, is telling. I wasn't thick. I did much better with written information and instructions than lectures, a teacher reading out loud or vocally transmited directions which is the way of elementary (primary) school. By the time I was a teen I was able to tease out what was important and needed to be processed, analysed and retained for future use.

With ADD, everything has the same urgency and importance to it. The fly buzzing in the window, the flickering flourescent light, the teacher talking, Jerry picking his nose, Becca's hiccups, the itchiness of the cardigan on my chin, smell of the banana in someone's lunch box, the worry about how to get past big kid bullies waiting at the end of the playground for little victims after school. Quite often I had to shut down. It was called day dreaming then, but it actually was a useful exercise in that often I would try to work out how I should have dealt with a past incident? Many ADD girls live in the past. The drive to be accepted into a social set is very strong. If your social skills are low you get bullied and/or ignored. So you shut out all the distractions and focus on that latest playground or classroom or lunchroom debacle in the hopes you can avoid a future one.

Hyperactivity is quite nightmarish. Girls are good at outletting the hyperactivity with constantly moving their feet. I still raise one foot on ball of foot and bounce my whole leg up and down, when I am at desk and in meetings. This activity has been related to night leg movement and leg cramps.   Boys are not so capable of squashing the impetuous drive to move, get out of seat, mess with other people's stuff.

I am with Lizzie in that there are different kinds of learners and having been a teacher it is possible to accomodate all types and encourage different types of learning styles in all pupils. Some are hands on, some listen and watch. Some are independent (want to read and figure out for themselves). Some prefer group work. Some need to see a practical application for abstract ideas. Some need to solve problems or improve process.

I made my lesson plans to cover all eventualities so everyone had a chance to shine and a chance to stretch less comfortable learning styles. I alos focussed on rewarding appropriate behaviour and getting all students to notice and praise appropriate behaviours in others. The reward system involved all getting a treat at the end of the week for point earned. I turned a very unruly class around using it.

I am not advocating the patronising pat on the head. "Poor dear, it's not your fault," tactic. But it is a completely different world. Kids are not the same animal as last generation, just as our own generation is different from our parents. Get used to it and try to figure out ways to work with it instead of struggling against it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 08:53 AM

I hope that is your name and you are not being mischievous Bluesman.
It could easily lead to confusion and false assumptions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 07:32 AM

Richard, unlikely we will ever agree on this subject. I note you have a number of posts that vanished.

Have a great day.
Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 06:58 AM

If you think that is an answer you really are unwell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 04:36 AM

As I said earlier, You will always find people wishing to blame something that goes wrong in their life on the system. They just need someone to blame someone. In some cases to attempt to screw a few quid out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 03:59 AM

And, incidentally, White Man, where is that shizzle you gave us before about your medical problems and disability?

Something to hide?


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 01:29 AM

No one ever wants to take responsibly for their failings anymore, these excuses aren't anything that would respond to a clinical intervention.

That's rich. You can dish it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 08:20 PM

This drivel to medicalise every last deviation from the 'norm' is nothing more than an excuse for bad parenting or an excuse for being thick.

If you can concentrate, you're somewhere on the autistic spectrum; if you can't, you have ADHD.

If you're orderly, then it's OCD, and if you're disorderly, then you're chaotic and bi-polar.

With better diagnostic tools, we are finding that more and more people have conditions diagnosed in someone's kitchen over a few cans of lager.
No one ever wants to take responsibly for their failings anymore, these excuses aren't anything that would respond to a clinical intervention.


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Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 07:16 PM

What they need, VT, is fewer fluffy squiggle excuses. What the "children exhibiting behaviour problems" need to do is to do as they are told. Without excuses.

And, incidentally, White Man, where is that shizzle you gave us before about your medical problems and disability?

Time to fess up.


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