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BS: Bullying
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM Yes, I've seen some people who coped with it in that manner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Charmion Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:13 PM Dear DrugCrazed, if you take the insult and make it your own, there is no reason for anyone else to use it against you. That work is already done -- by you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Jeri Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:14 PM DrugCrazed: do I EVER know what you're talking about! I also do the self-deprecation route. The problem is that people can eventually become what they pretend to be, and I think that happened to me. I don't know when I crossed the line between pretending to be less than I am and believing it. You can quit trying if you think you'll end up failing anyway. Listen to your friends. I wish at some point in my life, I'd tried to fill some better role. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:19 PM DrugCrazed, I've seen many 'cool kids' over the years, and 1) They aren't as cool inside as one might think and 1) They aren't terribly nice people as they've had it all their own way, and lack insight and compassion, two very important qualities. Having been a timid and deferential type as a youngster, I found that getting to know and caring about oneself is quite helpful. By that I mean learning what you like, what gives you pleasure, what makes you happy, and then trying very hard to give yourself those things, telling yourself you are worthy of it. It also means learning to say "NO" when people try to use you. I hope you don't feel I'm patronising you, I'm quite an old woman and have seen all sorts of personalities over the decades, including damaged and fearful ones. I so much wish you well and hope you can realise how worthwhile and important you are. Eliza |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:59 PM It helps to be around good people, people who help build you up instead of tearing you down. If you can find them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: kendall Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:06 PM I know the Spinners, great music. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: DrugCrazed Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:29 PM I don't believe what I say. I don't think so anyway. I'm immenselly cutting to myself, mostly because sometimes I find it funnny. The endless jokes I make about my lack of a girlfriend are amusing because I have a ladyfriend. And yes, they are different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Stringsinger Date: 09 Apr 11 - 11:20 AM The dots have to be connected. Micheal Moore did this admirably in his film "Bowling for Columbine". We have, today, a military industrial complex which is bullying citizens and taxpayers every day and advocating for a kind of violence in society. It has gone beyond just national security. Moore shows that in his scene with the spokespeople at Martin Marietta in Georgia. Big guns, big fists, big weapons, big bullying, big occupations, big corporations are all part of the climate of bullying today. You can't address the small problems without the big ones. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:50 PM I fear Dave's comment was ironic. What he he meant (forgive me, if I'm wrong) was the The Spinners weren't up to much and he risked being tagged a member of the folk gestapo for saying as much. The attitude goes back to the 70's and 80's on the English folkscene when Carthy was out there speading the gospel of authentic traditional style music. Anything less in delivery style was frowned upon and examined rigorously for intention and and purity of purpose. The Spinners weren't really my cup of tea, but i could see they had a contribution to make I recollect a chat I had with MC at the time. I said well i heard the Spinners sing the Bleacher Lass of Kelvinhaugh the other day on Pebble Mill at One (a popular tv programme). Where else will people hear the song? Carthy said, Well I sing it. I said, Yes, but you don't get asked to sing it on Pebble Mill at One. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Bert Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:29 PM Corporal punishment should be mandatory for all teachers and officials in a school where bullying is tolerated. It would stop bullying immediately if the headmaster was to find himself on the receiving end of a whacking. Oh, and when they grow up they become ass kissers or thieves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:04 PM Nice one, Alan. No - not quite right, but it'll do me;-) I went to see the Spinners at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester around 1969. I think Dillon had been there a bit before. I seem to remember someone stood up and shouted "kudos". Or maybe I'm getting some events mixed up... :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:10 PM Years ago when my eldest daughter was in Grade 1, she was being bullied by two girls her age. Spoke with the teacher and the school principal. No satisfaction. So, I taught my daughter how to punch and do a good round kick. I was at least three times her weight and she got used to giving good kicks and punches that hurt, even on me. She and I went back to the teacher and I told my daughter to defend herself. I then ripped a punch at her which she side slipped. She returned a double punch to my chest and did a good round kick to my head which I blocked with an open hand. It made a loud smack sound when it connected. I asked my daughter to leave the room which she did. I agreed that whether she was or wasn't being bullied, my (and her mother's) instructions to our daughter were that if she was hit or bullied again by either or both girls, she had our permission to respond. The bullying ceased. We then took a martial art together. She later went on to fight in tournaments and win more often than not. In high school she entered a group of kids who were teasing and being really mean towards a student who had a visible special need. She was pushed by the ring leader whom she bounced the off some lockers and the group disbursed quickly. On one other occasion a fellow who was showing off to a few of his friends placed his hand on her breast. She punched his chest, stomach and snap-kicked his groin in something under two seconds, then walked away. They are the only two times she ever got into fights. To this day she's my main music fan and I'm her main fan, period. When schools don't handle the bullying, I think it's necessary for parents to teach the kids how to do so. The aforementioned method will not work for all people, but that's what school boards are for if schools don't take care of it. imo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:26 PM Not that many years ago, when my daughters were around 13 (sorry but 'grade 1' doesn't mean anything to me) they were bullied by the majority of people in their class. Just because they were twins. Not wanting to give the impression that violence was the answer to anything what was I supposed to do but move them to an environment that did not teach them how to hurt people? Now, almost 15 years later, they can cope with most things that life throws at them. Without punching me or anyone else. Not saying that you are wrong, Bruce, but it is just not the answer for everyone. D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Jeri Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:35 PM There's the possibility of the person who's been bullied and found their strength then becoming a bully. I was afraid of that when I'd overcome the one who'd been after me. I didn't though, and it's probably because those of us who've been bullied really hate bullying and are vigilant. 999, I like your daughter, even though I've never met her and likely never will. IMO, being able to defend one's self and loved ones is a good thing. Most of those who are good at physically protecting themselves are less likely to ever have to use it... IMO |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:42 PM I always feel that Clint Eastwood movies have much to teach us on this subject:- 1) Clint is in pretty good shape. Nicely turned out - good choice of sports coat and jumper. 2) He has got several big guns. 3) Public officials like Clints bosses are nasty pieces of work - weak morals, lacking in moral fibre, really complete arseholes who are bothersome to Clint, whom they SHOULD get down on their kness and thank for always saving the day with his big guns, and perfect dress sense. 4) Ugly people are up no good. By and large greasy little bastards much given to rude behaviour. Clint can spot them a mile off, thank goodness. 5) We need a few more like Clint to sort out the the ugly customers. 6) Get a big gun, improve your dress sense, go to the gym and work out. Clint has given you a blueprint - something to aim for. Bullies won't mess you about then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:06 PM I agree, David, that "jaw jaw is better than war war." My little gal is good at that, too. IMO, physical violence must always be a last resort. But there are times when the situation is past that. Your daughters sound like gems. Thank you, Jeri. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:19 AM Nice work, 999. I think you did a great thing for your daughter there, and it must have served her very well in many ways by now. It's an approach that will work for some people, but not for others. Depends on their particular nature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:44 AM LH, that is the nicest thing you ever said to me. Thank you very much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Apr 11 - 02:01 AM "There's the possibility of the person who's been bullied and found their strength then becoming a bully" I'd reckon it's unlikely. Certainly, in my case, having been the kid that was bullied, and knowing what a crock of shit it is to be a bully's victim, a bully was the last thing I wanted to be. I couldn't be that ugly - it was (and is) anathema to me. I don't recall anyone I know who was bullied becoming a bully themselves. Stronger, more self-assured certainly, but a bully? Nope. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:00 AM Unfortunately, here in UK there seems to be a culture whereby the Police come down very hard on a person who defends himself with what they would term 'excessive force'. They seem more eager to arrest and punish a counter-attacker than the protagonist. Even when a burglar breaks in and is threatening (which by his very presence he is) one cannot hit, punch, attack with a weapon etc etc unless he makes the first move and one is in fear of ones life. People have actually been sent to court for ABH, GBH or assault etc for merely defending themselves against what they saw as a menacing attack. There is a move afoot now to reverse this attitude and to give the attacked more leeway in what they are allowed to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:45 AM Thay are indeed, Bruce and I am sure that your daughter has also learned, albeit in a different way, that if the bullies hold no power over their victims they cannot function. Thankfully you have brought up your daughter with the right values and, from what you say, she has become a well balanced person and a credit to her father:-) I think a lot of people are missing the point though. I was lucky, I guess, in that physical violence, apart from on one occasion which was oddly unrelated, was not the issue. When faced with threat to life, limb or those dear to us there is only the fight or flight option. But most often bullying, certainly nowadays, is not a physical thing. It is psychological and, somethimes, more damaging than the fist or boot. The point is that given this situation there is another route. It needs to be pointed out that unless you allow the name calling and other tactics to affect you they cannot do any harm. Let me give you an example. Right here on the Mudcat there are often cases of name calling and, even though it is not strictly allowed, personal abuse. I have never considered myself threatened by this. It doesn't matter. If half the people on here said I was a two headed baby eater from the planet Zog it wouldn't matter. I know the truth. The people I care about know the truth. I really could not give a toss about what anyone else thinks of me. OK, I know that when we were kids, other kids opinions did matter. But that was when I became most proud of my daughters; when they became adult enough to see that the trite and petty opinions of those who wish to abuse power do not matter. That was when the bullying stopped. It was not external influence. It was not relying on any action by the bullies. It came from within and, whatever else happens, nothing can cause them the same stress ever again. What I find particularly sad is that there seem to be more and more people who cannot or will not see this. They insist that everything has an external cause. That everything bad must be someone else's fault. Yet, oddly enough, all good things seem to be created by themselves. It is the blame society. Once we stop blaming other people and see that everything is within our own power then I am sure our full potential can be reached. Sadly it will not happen while people listen to those who are loudest and complain the most:-( One final thought, which seems unrelated but, in a way, sums up the difference in attitude between the complainers and the do-ers. I believe it was the comedian Norman Wisdom, who when told that his career had had some lucky breaks, said "I have indeed been lucky. The funny thing is that the harder I work, the luckier I seem to become." Classic DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Jeri Date: 10 Apr 11 - 10:54 AM I wrote: "There's the possibility of the person who's been bullied and found their strength then becoming a bully."I'd followed that with "I didn't though, and it's probably because those of us who've been bullied really hate bullying and are vigilant" which isn't quoted. Backwoodsman wrote: "I'd reckon it's unlikely. Certainly, in my case, having been the kid that was bullied, and knowing what a crock of shit it is to be a bully's victim, a bully was the last thing I wanted to be. I couldn't be that ugly - it was (and is) anathema to me."So we're saying the same thing in different ways. The vigilance I mentioned meant I was concerned with not crossing that line between defense and antagonization in my own behavior. I was afraid of becoming what I hated. Perhaps the fact I was concerned about it meant it was unlikely to ever happen. I believe some people don't worry about it, and they get even with the people who picked on them by picking on someone else. It's what they learn from being bullied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 10 Apr 11 - 11:35 AM I was a timid kid at school and was mildly bullied a few times. On a couple of occasions I hit the bully and the bullying stopped. I learned that violence can occasionally solve problems but, mercifully, that lesson didn't turn me into a violent person. Early in my career I worked in a department which was full of some of the most likeable people that you could hope to meet. There was a fair amount fo silliness and even horseplay and a bit of mild teasing. I noticed, though, that some people couldn't seem to cope with even the mildest teasing and some of them even claimed that they were being bullied. One lad had a voice which sounded like a well known TV personality and someone once remarked on this. Instead of laughing it off he 'went ballistic'. This over-reaction seemed to trigger a counter-reaction in some people and, in consequence, he suffered more teasing than he would have done if he had laughed off the intial remark (which sounded quite innocuous to me and, in that department, 'par for the course'). In my next job I encountered some 'real' bullies - and because they were in senior management they caused me some problems - but that's another story. It all goes to show that one man's bullying may be another man's silly teasing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 10 Apr 11 - 11:53 AM Bruce, you did great by your daughter! Walk softly but carry a big stick sometimes is the only path that can be taken! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:08 PM I think that is pretty spot on, Shimrod. And, unfortunately, teachers cannot win whatever they seem to do so I have a lot of sympathy for their plight. If they see some petty teasing, should they let it go or risk being jumped upon by some parent who sees it as a excuse for their childs poor performance at school? It's a really tough and thankless job nowadays and one that I am glad I didn't go in to. The difference between petty teasing and bullying is plain to see provided that your view is not clouded by your own agenda. D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: The Sandman Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM nobody ever bullied me even though i was the smallest in my class ,why because i took boxing lessons. some kid decided to pick a playground fight with me, I got him quick with a left upper hook, no more trouble after that. internet bullying is more difficult to cope with, and I have a persistent problem with someone who used to be a member of this forum |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:38 PM Like I said before though, Dick. That type of bullying can only get to you if you let it - Which I am sure you don't. While a quick uppercut and really hurt an internet message can only hurt you if you let it. If there is anything any of us can do to help though - Just ask. Cheers Dave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM "...While a quick uppercut and really hurt an internet message can only hurt you if you let it...." I disagree. Internet messages often hurt more. Why? Because lies and unpleasantness are left there for all to see, for a very long time. The bullying is not just amongst a few people in private who eventually move on from each other's lives. It is there for everyone to see, and many will read terrible untruths put down about a person, without ever knowing that person in real life, without never even knowing that the words printed about them are wrong, vile or complete and utter lies. That is why it is SO important to either speak out against such posts, or else get them removed for ever. When a person has an entire gang of people using them to while away their boredom, create 'a bit of fun', or to twist as many other minds against that person as possible, then it becomes a witch hunt, and that can be very sinister for the person involved... Internet bullying can lead, and HAS led, to suicides in many people. To know your bully is bad enough. To NOT know them, to have 'invisble' bullies appearing out of nowhere, can take any person to a very dark place....and when a whole gang of invisibles turn up and join together to chase their prey around the internet, it can be the most disturbing thing you can imagine, because those thoughts, those words, the lies, the insults written about a person, or his/her family can go deep inside their minds. Don't EVER think that 'internet bullying' is OK, or that it will only affect people 'if they let it'....because I can tell you firsthand that the exact opposite is true. It affects you very badly indeed. It is happening a great deal amongst young people, particularly those at school...and even President Obama is now speaking out against it. Once, the bullying stopped when you got home, and you felt you had somewhere 'safe', sanctuary, a place where you could relax...Now the bullying goes on 24/7, in phone calls, in texts, on the internet..even with entire pages being created to bully someone, with the most despicable things imaginable being put down about them.. It is a major, major problem, and all internet site owners should be very aware of it, of the people who do it and how it can be stopped dead in its tracks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:34 PM I will simply repeat that I could not care less what anyone who means nothing to me says. Nothing on the internet has ever hurt me nor will it. Annoy me greatly, yes. Hurt me, no. A man a great deal wiser than me put it far better than I ever could. If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you. If all men count with you but none too much. I am greatly puzzled by those who, knowing how hurt they will be if they view the forums that are 'bullying' them, keep going back to those forums as if in need of some sort of masochistic fulfilment. Schools cannot be avoided forever. Town centres are places that must occasionaly be visited. We cannot even bypass every dark and dangerous alley. But nothing could force anyone onto a chat room unless they wanted to visit it. Nor does anyone have to open any mail they don't want to. There is no reason whatsoever to keep visiting somewhere you dislike. So why do it? DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: peregrina Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:40 PM David, it sounds to me-and forgive me if I haven't read all your posts as carefully as I should--as if you are blaming targets for their vulnerability? The world has all different kinds of people and I, for one, think vulnerability is an essential part of humanity. Some people are lucky to be thick-skinned, or to be able to ignore hurtful provocation, but not all are. And who would stand up against all kinds of injustice and dehumanizing treatment if those who were hurt did not make their voices heard? I would like to hear more stories about how people have defeated bullies--thanks for those already posted... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:47 PM I can assure you that the knowledge that somewhere out there are fake pages, bearing your name, or photos, as many of us in here have to put up with on FB, is horrible, particularly when those pages purport us to be something we are not. I can also assure you that young people who have similar fake pages, made in their names, or other pages made where their 'friends' sign up to shite all over them on the internet, cause GREAT distress. And the people concerned are told about these pages, even if they don't have computers, just to ensure that they know what's being said about them on the internet.. It's a shocking, and horrible, phenomenen (can't spell that)..It does great damage to those involved and it should be made a crime, to be honest, with a prison sentence involved, imo, because that would make people think twice before they think they have the freedom to do these things. Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it does not affect others. It does. And some people it affects very, very deeply indeed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM you are blaming targets for their vulnerability? Far from it, peregrina and I have said, on both discussions on bullying and other equaly distasteful topics, that victims cannot and must not ever be blamed. All I am saying is that there is a defence against bullies involving not letting them get to you. It would not work for everyone but some may consider it. As far as cyber-bullying is concerned, I am simply posing the question of why - when someone finds a particular forum or chat room or whatever so offensive - do they keep visiting it? It is still not their fault that they are being bullied but keeping out of the buliies reach is one form of defence that I would consider. DeG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Apr 11 - 06:01 PM If anyone was to look up 'Dave Polshaw' on the internet you would find some interesting examples of 'me' and 'my family' in support of certain organisations to whom I hold no sympathies whatsoever. Likewise for other members of Mudcat, including dead ones! As I said before. Annoying, yes. Hurtful, no. D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Apr 11 - 06:24 PM Liz, meet my friend Dave. Dave, meet my friend Liz. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:58 PM Dang. All the scrapping going on and I neglected to wish you a Happy Birthday, Liz. It's past midnight in England, but not in Canada. I hope you had a wonderful day. Bruce
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: ollaimh Date: 10 Apr 11 - 09:33 PM i grew up in a culture in rural nova scotia that didn't exactly prepare me for the nig bad world. there wasn't much bullying at the time. and people challenged nasty gossip and roughing others. regularily. so making my way beyond the ottawa river to anglo canada i was astonished by the reluctance to challenged natsy gossip--usually the kind of things that were obviously made up, and the tencdency to say thast anyone being pushed around physically must have done something. so i am not surprised that the cops in the uk tend to ignore the attacker and go after those who react. i think there are long term social cultural reasons for this. the british empire and its philosophy of laissez faire capitalism and the american continuance of that attempt at worl dominance has militarizedthe angloworld. this is reflected in the extreme class discrimination and in the obeidence to authority. franco gaelic culture doesn't generally trust authority having grown up on the wrong end of the gun. the issue i am trying to bring to the attention of all here is that there is a definate tendence among anglos to attack any diffderence and demonize it--this rarely happens in the non anglo communites i live in. here on mudcat my poor tyoing haqs been attacked--i have a couple of major handicaps and have a couple of languages. that bullying. an obvious difference must be attacked. now as to the folk world i found the socail structure of the folk scene in canada beyond the ottawa river to be totally based on bullying. in the vancouver folk song society--the folk ss(some people have no self awareness), i spent years being harrassed for every little diference. they took my differences--which didn't seem a big deal to me--as a personal insult. i eventually got yhe message and gave up. they rigged the performance schedules so only the in crowd got to perform, they bad mouithed me and any other non anglo german(they have a germaic element--not too different on these issues from anglos), they used to attack any workinng class guy as obviously sexist--they were very well healled middle clas who had never struggled for a meal in their lives. they even organized movenment to expell people--a friend calls it the urge to purge, bulimia on the left. and waht a happy coincidence that all the people they drove out were jews or gaels!and working class jews or gaels at that! so don't kid yourself. if you are criticizing some one in your folk group ask a few questions of your self as to whayt harm would occur if you left them alone. in toronto i couldn't get in the front door of the folk groups. i was good enough to get an auditioned busking licence for twelve years but those who failed those same auditions kept the door of their folk get togethers shut. the anglo buskers were routinely threwtening and making homophobic remarks. if i had a dollar for every time i was called a frog fag by in crowd folkies out busking i'd have a hun dred bucks! (i have fench last name) . and they never belive the non anglo victims. in fact it is one of the ever present hallmarks of anglo society that they do not accept the experiences of non anglos, don't believe a word they say. again bullying is the product of cultures. anglo cutlure is one of the most agressive and violent in history. they have made war in every corner of the globe. they do posture at being moral and ethical, but thats horse manure. look a little deeper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 11 Apr 11 - 04:53 AM Thank you, Bruce. x ollaimh, I'm sorry for the way you've been treated and hope that life is a little happier these days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Penny S. Date: 11 Apr 11 - 05:28 AM I wonder if any of the anglo tendency to bully perceived by ollaimh is linked to school culture - or similar in German history. I spent some time in a private school where there was bullying, and a staff enforced culture that what happened at school stayed at school, and telling one's parents was sneaking and beneath contempt. I was at the bottom. I was no good at games or ballet. I was a Day Girl, whose father was not in the local Chamber of Commerce. Day girls were lower than boarders. There were other subtleties subdividing the boarders. I was not aware of most of these distinctions, or any need to take account of them. I thought people were equal. When I moved to the local Technical School, due to extracurricular activities by the school headmaster, I dreaded bullying because of having been somewhere posh and having a posh voice. Not a shred of it - people were equal, unless they behaved stupidly, judged on themselves not on some perceived status. English society is riddled with this sort of rubbish. In private and public schools. In grammar schools which emulate them. In the class divisions which make it possible for the "upper" lot not to see those "below" them. Unless those inferiors do not recognise their place - when the bullying starts. Not that it doesn't happen in other environments as well. Years ago, I read a piece in the Guardian of all places, which I was gobsmackedly unable to respond to. The writer claimed that bullying at school was necessary so that people would learn their place in society for adult life, and people should learn to put up with it. I had a shrewd idea where the writer felt her place was. Not only I, but no-one picked up on this concept of human society requiring a pecking order to function. (My typing omitted the n in that word, and I almost left it.) I wonder how much "putting people in their place", dealing with "uppity" folk of perceived lowly status, and demanding "respect" has to do with the problem, and whether this might be why authorities are slow to respond...afraid their own status may be threatened. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Stringsinger Date: 11 Apr 11 - 01:29 PM Bullying has been institutionalized for many years by religious groups. Children are regularly abused psychologically and physically for their "rebellious" questioning of their parent's insanity. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not in the Bible but from Dr. Johnson. Still it is used as a device for bible reference by parents to bully children. Children learn to be abused by their parents, siblings, teachers, and other authority figures. Do you wonder why it is so rampant? BTW what happens when one nation bullies another? Does this trickle down? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 11 Apr 11 - 02:00 PM I've observed many parents being bullied by their children recently! I certainly wouldn't say that many parents in UK are totally in control of their offspring. But I agree there are a few cruel and repressive adults around who may bully children. I would say that most bullying comes from peers, at school, in the street and online. And from 'colleagues' at work. In comparison, parental bullying isn't as common. But that's just a personal opinion, not backed up with data. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Teribus Date: 12 Apr 11 - 01:58 AM Bullying at school as far as it affected me ended in the same way as for kendall and Guest999. Never bullied at primary school, it started when I went to the senior or high school. A group of four and I took some right pastings, but each time I learned a little bit more and each time it got harder for them. A couple of them felt tempted to have a go on their own and then they in turn got the shock of their lives, I was never bullied again. Someone stated further down this thread that the Police in the UK will pick on the person who reacts. This is incorrect, the Police in effect are simply doing their jobs and following procedure. Straight from the "horse's mouth" this is what I have been told by Police Officers whenever this is discussed (People breaking and entering, people causing criminal damage to your property, personal assaults), if you as a citizen have resorted to physical violence in order to protect either yourself or your property of course you will be questioned, there are after all as many sides to the story as there are participants and witnesses. The one phrase that you must use is that you considered that you used "reasonable force". The second you mention that phrase it is entered in the copper's note book and that is you off the hook. The policeman's own opinion is meaningless and irrelevant after all he was not there. It comes down to your word against the person who has: 1: Broken into your house (Poor ground he shouldn't be there) 2: Damaged your property (The damage is there in plain sight for all to see, you have a reason for being on the scene the perpetrator has not, again he is on poor ground) 3: Assault (Well witnesses will atest to the fact that it wasn't you who was throwing your weight about) So remember the phrase "Officer the situation was this, etc, etc, and I used what I considered to be reasonable force to protect myself against what I considered a real threat" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 12 Apr 11 - 03:13 AM Teribus, despite that we have not always agreed, I have respected you and understood from whence you came. You are an honest and good man. Few here have ever known you as you really are: a tough and gentle person at once with a smart way of thinking of life. I loved you then, and I love you now, Reuben James. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 12 Apr 11 - 03:43 AM There was another form of disturbing bullying that I read about a few weeks ago and it was on the news and in the paper about vulnerable elderly people being targeted, preyed on and raped in their home. Apart from being an horrendous crime it must be the lowest kind of bullying ever, although all forms is hell enough for the victim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Apr 11 - 03:56 AM I'm sure many old folks get bullied in so-called Care Homes too, Patsy....sadly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: banjoman Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:23 AM My own experience suggests that bullies dont stop until they are confronted with some of their own medicine. I was constantly bullied by 2 brothers when I was about 10 to the extent that I avoidedwalking down our road as I had to pass their house. One day i just happened to have my cricket bat with me when they started. Suffice to say that they never bullied me again However their parents came to our house to complain that I had "Attacked" their sons. Short shrift given by my mum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:54 AM It's interesting how parents of bullies often rush to the defence of their 'innocent' little darlings. A girl called Julie once buried her fingernails up to the hilt in my face because I'd coloured a picture in my exercise book in the same colours as HER picture. My mother was horrified when I got home (I was eight years old at the time) She was even more horrified when Julie's mother arrived at the door, red with anger. Julie was 'upset' about the 'copying'. Even when shown my multi-punctured face and the blood, she continued to rant at my poor mother. Finally, (my mum was Irish, and had a cut-off point with regard to temper) my mother exploded and terrified the woman, who fled. I've seen this often with parents of my pupils, they can't imagine their darlings as anything but wee angels. I have to add, I was the most timid, skinny and inoffensive little thing in the school, and certainly not one to start trouble! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Penny S. Date: 12 Apr 11 - 08:05 AM The little girls seem to have been brought up with a sense of entitlement, so it is no surprise when mothers rush to defend their princesses. Copying a colour worth going round in anger??!! Oh my goodness words fail me maybe I should use the technique Diane Wynne Jones used in Wilkin's Tooth and use colours to say what one earth the purple orange magenta was she thinking!!! Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Apr 11 - 08:10 AM Exactly, Penny. But as an adult and looking back with more insight, I remember that Julie had two very glamorous older twin sisters called Odelle and Odette, both nurses. I wonder now if the darling Julie felt sidelined by these blonde bombshells and it made her over-react. Not an excuse, but maybe a reason! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Penny S. Date: 12 Apr 11 - 08:34 AM It's the mother's reaction that appalled me! The copying reaction from Julie wasn't a surprise. Many's the time I've had to explain that in primary school, copying doesn't diminish the originator's work, and that anyway, teacher's usually know it's been done, and by whom. Mind you, when an adult complains that his plagiarism is OK because it's fair practice to rehash work delivered in a lecture to a local astronomy society without attribution, and that he's being unfairly accused with bizarre accusations aimed by a sniper a long way off... Ooops, I ought to attribute that phrase, but I won't... copying becomes a different issue. But a colour...! Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM During a test in primary school, I once put my arm around my work, as the girl next to me was copying. I could see the teacher watching, so I knew she'd get into trouble, probably me as well. For that I suffered 2 years of hell. She managed to convince every child in my form to ignore me completely, pass me by, not look at me, not speak a word to me. In private, on their own, some kids would sidle up to me and tell me they *did* actually like me, but were afraid of Jane. I learnt a lot in those 2 years. I learnt to stand outside 'the group' for a start, and watch how one person controlled so many others. I learnt about hypocrisy, about people who really didn't matter one iota to me, at the end of the day, for they had no empathy about my feelings. I learnt that being alone was actually pretty darn good, because there was no one to hurt you, judge you, get others against you, even if it was so often very lonely. I learnt that I loved animals far more than I loved human beings, because animals never went out of their way to hurt you, indeed, they could somehow sense when you needed a friend, giving you such love when it was needed so badly. I became very indifferent to all those folks, when they finally decided, after Jane had left to go to another school, that they'd try to be friends with me again. I learnt about folks who take your trust, your friendship, your loyalty, then screw it up and stamp on it. I learnt what a terrible thing bullying is, how it lasts, stays with people for a very long time...and how callously indifferent so many people are to the deep damage it so often causes. All the knowledge I gained back then has remained with me throughout my life. When I see bullying, I wade in there to stop it, to show the bullies up, to stand fast and hard against them, because I have been the person on the end of vicious remarks, or total silence..and I know how it feels. And....I think that many people who've been severely bullied as children actually turn into Great Grown-Ups because they're so often very kind and empathetic. I often wonder if the people who chose to stand with Jane ever think about what they did, how they behaved, if they caused any damage, hurt or something far worse. I'm very proud that I never bullied a soul when I was at school..and I got more love from the school rabbit than I did from many of my peers. Things got better for me when two girls arrived in the 4th Year. They were twins. Not just twins, but the most beautiful twins you could imagine with faces and bodies to die for. Needless to say, the girls hated them, the boys loved them..and they found life very hard to start with. We all shared a birthday, and I ended up befriending them pretty fast, because I could see how upset they were with the frosty frozen reception they'd got from other girls. We remained really good friends throughout the rest of school and for a while beyond too...but then each of us went our separate ways. |
