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Missing Manuscripts

Rozza 11 Apr 11 - 12:20 PM
Jack Campin 11 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM
greg stephens 11 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Chris P 11 Apr 11 - 03:07 PM
Steve Gardham 11 Apr 11 - 03:45 PM
Rozza 12 Apr 11 - 06:31 AM
Jack Campin 12 Apr 11 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,Chris P 12 Apr 11 - 01:58 PM
Ross Campbell 12 Apr 11 - 02:03 PM
johnadams 12 Apr 11 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Chris P 12 Apr 11 - 02:07 PM
johnadams 12 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM
Wolfhound person 12 Apr 11 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Chris P 12 Apr 11 - 02:28 PM
Rozza 12 Apr 11 - 02:44 PM
johnadams 12 Apr 11 - 02:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 Apr 11 - 06:15 PM
Jack Campin 12 Apr 11 - 07:42 PM
Mr Red 13 Apr 11 - 05:25 AM
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Subject: Missing Manuscripts
From: Rozza
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 12:20 PM

Has anyone attempted to make a list of all the missing manuscipts, i.e. those that have been referred to in publications or on websites and can no longer be found? I have been looking for the William Clarke tune manuscript from 18th century Lincoln, which according to "Hardcore English" was in the Lincoln Record Office. It isn't. Do I understand that the Mittel and Irwin tune manuscripts are also "missing"?

I could also add William Barrett's collection of broadsides which used to be in the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library.

Can anyone add to the list?


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM

Volume 3 of the Macfarlan Manuscript, once in the Advocates Library in Edinburgh and borrowed in the late 18th century, never returned.

I was once in the National Library of Scotland rare books room when an enormous guy who looked just like a Gary Larson cartoon came up to the issue desk and asked "I believe you lost the Great Register of St Andrews sometime around 1800, did it ever turn up?" [No it didn't. Probably nothing musical in it, but it was one of the most important primary historical source documents in Scotland.]


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

William Irwin's MS tunebooks, the crown jewels of English fiddle history in my opinion, have been missing since the 20's. Lancashire fiddler's Joseph Kershaw's MS went off at the same time.All we have are A G Gilchrist's copies of some of the tunes, and listings of the contents.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:07 PM

William Mittel disappeared several years ago.
Many of Frank Kidson's collection of MSS, of which there used to be over 40, are unaccounted for.
William Clark of Lincoln wasn't missing. We have the ABCs done by the late Barry Callaghan on the VMP website, done from transparencies.
Perhaps Johnny will drop by and confirm its last known whereabouts?
The attrition rate on these MSS is alarming, which is why we felt the need to get some onto the web.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:45 PM

17th century ms version of Sir Andrew Barton went walkabout from York Minster Library some time in the early 1900s. Luckily it had already been published in the Surtees Society Journal.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Rozza
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 06:31 AM

Sadly, it would seem that the William Clarke (Lincoln) manuscript has gone missing. There is no trace of it in the Lincolnshire Archives, Lincoln City Reference Library, Lincoln City Record Office or the Lincolnshire Life Museum. I'm pleased to hear that there are slides of it, although the links to the "scans" on the VMP website don't seem to work on my computer.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:00 AM

Maybe the conclusion is that local authority libraries and archives shouldn't be entrusted with this stuff. National libraries ought to be the ones dealing with it.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 01:58 PM

"I'm pleased to hear that there are slides of it, although the links to the "scans" on the VMP website don't seem to work on my computer."

Link to the scans from the VMP? Do you mean to the ABCs? That works fine for me.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:03 PM

Jack, the problem with that is that it's often local people who "entrust" such items to their local libraries and museums, in the fond hope that the items will remain available for study (sometimes) in the area where they were collected/found/made. It's a reasonable desire.

Ross


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: johnadams
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:06 PM

I'd forgotten that there _were_ links to the scans on the VMP site - they are from the William Clark index page and they don't work.

I'll have to address this soon. In the meantime, the scans are viewable on Folkopedia


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:07 PM

I've alerted J.A. to this thread and he will be along shortly regarding W.Clarke MS.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: johnadams
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

I beat you to it CP!

The William Clarke manuscript _was_ in the Lincoln Records Office according to the late Barry Callaghan but it seems to have gone walkies.

With regard to Jack's comment about archives not being responsible guardians of the stuff, it's a difficult one to assess. People die and their precious artifacts end up in a skip. Libraries burn down. There's even a story about a university music librarian having a bonfire and a pile of mss being rescued from the pile of stuff to be burned so not even academic librarians are to be trusted to treat the stuff with respect. There are not many manuscripts from Dorset because apparently, a folklorist went round collecting them between the wars and had a fair old stash in his house, which then suffered a direct hit in the 2nd WW and the lot were lost.

It would be sad if the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library burned down and all that stuff gathered together in one spot were to be lost.

Much better to get it all copied, digitised, transcribed and available and better still, get it back in circulation being played! I think the phrase 'use it or lose it' probably covers it.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:22 PM

John Smith 1752 Northumberland.

Partial copy by John Stokoe, no later sightings than C19

Paws


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: GUEST,Chris P
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:28 PM

I made a concerted effort to get to the bottom of the Dorset MS story, which in my version had been in a library, and nobody, including some well respected authorities and librarians from the area, had heard of it, so I concluded that it may have been apocryphal.
However, it does make a good argument for these things not to be gathered together in insecure environments for "safekeeping".


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Rozza
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:44 PM

Thanks for the folkopedia link, John. I should have thought to look there. As you say, the links from the index page of the William Clark manuscript don't work, so this is the first time I've actually seen it. Looks as if pages are missing from the front of the MS, but numbering clearly starts at 1.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: johnadams
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 02:58 PM

They may be on file but not on line. I'll check later.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 06:15 PM

A great recent discovery was the Mass in 40 Parts by Alessandro Striggio, one of the masterpieces of the Renaissance. It was discovered in the national library in France by the musicologist, Davitt Moroney.
It is now available in a fine recording by I Fagolini on the Decca label. An excerpt and a description of the work by the conductor may be heard on youtube.
http://www youtube.com/watch?v=CDUDWvB31lU
I Fagiolini Striggio:Mass in 40 parts


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:42 PM

Another one:

Vivaldi - Il Gran Mogol

A bit of it is on YouTube already.

National archives may not lose things as often but they can take a while to figure out what they've got.


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Subject: RE: Missing Manuscripts
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 05:25 AM

Try the tradsong forum on Yahoo. Some of whom are of this parish.

Malcolm Douglas would have known if it was a known unknown - as it were.


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