Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 10:10 PM

Calypso history books including Calypso Calaloo: Early Carnival Music in Trinidad, and Caliban and the Yankees which i found on Google Books, state that "the original (of this song) was from Grenada", "taking off on a Grenadian folk song" one memoir states that Radio was "adapting an old theme", and one blog by a Grenadian woman describes her daughter singing the chorus, which she refers to as an "old-time folk song" . Another site also refers to "the folk version" of this song. There is no doubt in my mind that he wrote the 1946 version, and I have seen some sites which seem to be reliable on this being a common song in other repertoires. Which doesn't prove that he didn't write it. There is also another book on Google Books which lists a number of songs adapted by calypsonians which have roots in other islands. One is "Sly Mongoose (from Jamaica)" and another is "Brown Skin Girl (from the Grenadines)". He could have written it, but then he could have simply adapted an older song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 10:03 PM

I believe Sloop John B was composed in the 1950's and is copyrighted.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenad
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 09:43 PM

BTW, where does Grenada come in, anyway? Is that just a bunch a nonsense off of random websites, or a rumour floated by an irresponsible folkie? Don't get distracted by the "blood red roses" effect. (i.e. if there were never any blood red roses to begin with, it's no use trying to reconcile a bunch of facts that make no sense in relation to something that was made up.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenad
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM

Morwen,

I don't understand what you're driving at. King Radio claims to have written the song. He got the copyright registered by 1949 (there's published record of this).

Is that it that you suspect he really didn't write it? Why? FWIW, it sounds to me like a song someone deliberately composed. What reason do you have to suspect it was "traditional" or that Span took it from another source?

Is it just the Grenada/Trinidad/Bahamas discrepancy? Assuming Span was from Trinidad (home of calypso/kaiso), I don't see any reason (yet) to suspect his songs did not gain later popularity on other islands. The song was known in the UK, Canada, and US by 1948:
http://books.google.com/books?id=m5XfAAAAMAAJ&q=%22brown+skin+girl%22&dq=%22brown+skin+girl%22&hl=en&ei=XNWjTYuGPKOE0QH3lbTtCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBg
http://books.google.com/books?id=vBUbAAAAMAAJ&q=%22brown+skin+girl%22&dq=%22brown+skin+girl%22&hl=en&ei=v9WjTZmqG6mx0QGMxKXuCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBzgK
http://books.google.com/books?id=w9VKAAAAYAAJ&q=%22brown+skin+gyal%22&dq=%22brown+skin+gyal%22&hl=en&ei=Ld2jTZWsIYWO0QGX8vXrCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg

I'm sure the song spread. For instance, Caribbean professional musicians would go to Bahamas to perform for tourists. I don't see anywhere that says the song had to be "native" to a particular island's tradition.

If it was a popular song, by a know artist, what sort of "field recordings" would you expect to be "collected"? Is it that you want other people's non-commercial "cover versions" of King Radio's song?

As for other songs of this type...calypsos from the 1940s!

I hope you don't mistake my tone for rudeness, it is just confusion :) I'm ready to believe there could be an interesting story about this song, but so far I've not seen any reason to suspect there is.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 08:05 PM

I think it is entirely possible that some folk song collector travelled to Grenada and recorded it in an obscure hard-to-find field recording. The liner notes of the Joseph Spence album- thanks, Joe! - suggest that it is a folk song, but the Bahamas? why would a folk song from Grenada get labelled Bahamian? Maybe the theme is common? Does anyone have any folk song collections they could give me references to that contain songs similar to this, or even this song? I've done my own research- The Traditional Ballad Index apparently includes "Sloop John B", but not this, and I believe there should be references to "Brown Skin Girl" if it was collected.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:03 PM

Norman Span is the real name of King Radio.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:01 PM

You'll find the Joseph Spence recording of the song on a Smithsonian Folkways album called Joseph Spence: The Complete Folkways Recordings 1958. I can't make out the lyrics he's singing, but the guitar work is wonderful. Follow the link to the notes, which aren't particularly helpful.

As indicated in this thread the version sung by Belafonte is attributed to Norman Span, whoever he was.

The message from Jeri above say the song was written by Trinidadian calypso singer, King Radio in 1946.

It's hard to trace the roots of many of the songs recorded by Harry Belafonte. I think that Caribbean songwriters didn't really see songwriting as a business, so they didn't worry much about claiming ownership of the songs.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 06:47 PM

Thanks. I am looking for early field recordings or references to folk song collections which contain it or songs similar to it though, but that could be a useful lead.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 06:34 PM

Hi Morwen,
The great Bahamian guitarist Joseph Spence did a noteworthy recording of it on a 1959 Folkways LP, called, I believe "Folk Songs of the Bahamas".

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 12:01 AM

sorry

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 12:00 AM

Morwen, calm down - you don't have to refresh every hour - have a little patience, someone will get back to you.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 11:56 PM

So does anyone know of a variant of this song or field recordings?

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,GUEST. MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 10:57 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 09:52 PM

So does anyone know of a variant of this song or field recordings? That's what I'm looking for.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 09:32 PM

No. In fact, that's what I'm looking for. The chorus is apparently traditional- Lord Invader performed a version with "What is wrong with you Miss Ivy, why are you trapping me with that baby?" beginning the first verse. King Radio sang his own verses with the same chorus (Harry Belafonte version), and there is also a mento version by Ben Bowers, but I don't know how old the versions other than Belafonte's are.
The verses are very different from each version. The singers probably added them to the chorus of "Brown skin girl, stay home and mind baby". I'm looking for collected lyrics to the chorus.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 09:12 PM

King Radio's version was in 1946 and Belafonte's was 10 years later in 1956. If King Radio added verses, what did he add verses to? Do you know of an earlier version?

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 09:05 PM

Oh not again! Thanks. That's not really what I'm looking for, but it's a great link. It seems like the song itself is older.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 09:03 PM

Thanks. However, it looks like King Radio added verses. It seems like the song itself is older.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:58 PM

I don't know anything about it, and all the videos of the song by Belafonte are blocked here. I did find a version on YouTube here. I can't see what the singer's name is.

There is some discussion there, though.
"This song was written by Trinidadian calypso singer, King Radio in 1946, and is a comment on the tendency of American servicemen in Trinidad during World War II to father babies and then abandon the children and their mothers when they returned to the United States.

It was popularised by Caribbean-American singer Harry Belafonte in his album, "Calypso" (1956). Jazz versions have been recorded by Sonny Rollins and Roy Haynes."

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST, MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:50 PM

Ignore last post. copy and pasted if this isn't against the rules. Sorry:

I am trying to find information about variants of it, such as any traditional verses. The only information i can find is that the song is from Grenada and the chorus, "Brown skin girl/gal, stay home and mind baby, I'm going away on a sailing boat and if I don't come back, throw away the damn baby' is traditional. Many singers who perform it add verses, but are there any in collected versions, or any collections which contain this song?

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:48 PM

I am trying to find information about variants of it, such as any traditional verses. The only information i can find is that the song is from Grenada and the chorus, "Brown skin girl/gal, stay home and mind baby, I'm going away on a sailing boat and if I don't come back, throw away the damn baby' is traditional. Many singers who perform it add verses, but are there any in collected versions, or any collections which contain this song?

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM

Thanks. So, Jeri, would you happen to know anything about the song mentioned in my post?
-Morwen.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:41 PM

Deleted. One of them was spam and the other was your reply to the spam.

Subject: RE: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:37 PM

Hey, what happened to the other posts?

Subject: Origins: Brown Skin Girl- folksong from Grenada
From: GUEST,GUEST. MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 06:57 PM

Hello. I'm a 17-year-old girl from Australia wondering about the origins of the song titled "Brown skin girl" covered by Harry Belafonte which I sometimes like to sing in my free time. I have seen several sites which imply that this is a traditional folk song from the island of Grenada. I'd like to know if this song appears in any folk song collections or if there are any field recordings and also whether it may have originally been a sailors' song of some kind. Thanks.