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BS: Finally found my bible

josepp 18 Apr 11 - 06:43 PM
Dave MacKenzie 18 Apr 11 - 06:47 PM
josepp 18 Apr 11 - 07:01 PM
catspaw49 18 Apr 11 - 07:42 PM
katlaughing 18 Apr 11 - 07:52 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 11 - 07:52 PM
gnu 18 Apr 11 - 08:06 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 11 - 08:12 PM
gnu 18 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM
Bobert 18 Apr 11 - 08:15 PM
josepp 18 Apr 11 - 09:52 PM
Bobert 18 Apr 11 - 10:12 PM
josepp 18 Apr 11 - 10:25 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 11 - 11:32 PM
Smokey. 18 Apr 11 - 11:42 PM
josepp 19 Apr 11 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,Eliza 19 Apr 11 - 06:54 AM
Musket 19 Apr 11 - 07:05 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 19 Apr 11 - 09:22 AM
Stringsinger 19 Apr 11 - 12:22 PM
josepp 19 Apr 11 - 12:22 PM
SINSULL 19 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 19 Apr 11 - 12:44 PM
Bill D 19 Apr 11 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 19 Apr 11 - 02:36 PM
Amos 19 Apr 11 - 03:01 PM
Don Firth 19 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM
Smokey. 19 Apr 11 - 03:05 PM
Deckman 19 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM
Bill D 19 Apr 11 - 04:33 PM
Don Firth 19 Apr 11 - 04:54 PM
josepp 19 Apr 11 - 04:58 PM
The Fooles Troupe 19 Apr 11 - 06:22 PM
Musket 20 Apr 11 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 20 Apr 11 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,Patsy 20 Apr 11 - 05:58 AM

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Subject: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:43 PM

It's "Moby Dick". It's actually quite profound in a gnostic sort of way. Much better than that hokey trash the Christians are always quoting as if any of it actually meant something (as if you can't a find a quote in it to contradict the one the asshole is shouting).

I even have to wonder Melville put all this gnostic stuff in there deliberately and then disguised it as fiction. Regarding this book, Melville once wrote to Nathaniel Hawthorne, "Though I wrote the gospels of the 19th century, I should die in the gutter." That seems to indicate that Melville wasn't just writing a fictional adventure story but something far more profound--if you know how to find it.

In celebration of having found a bible I don't want to hurl into the nearest garbage can or rip to pieces and flush down a toilet, I should print up an edition with verse numbers and a big black leather cover with "Moby Dick" spelled out in gold-leaf black lettering and gilt-edge pages.

Maybe I'll even dress like a 19th century Quaker (the folks who ran the Yankee whale fishery) and walk around with my bible tucked in my arm. I'll exhort on street corners, holding up my copy yelling, "THIS BOOK IS ALL YOU WILL EVER NEED!" And I'd actually be telling the truth.

I got the beard for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:47 PM

Now all you need is the artificial leg made of whalebone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:01 PM

Hey, YEAH!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:42 PM

Mount the leg in the middle and you'll be the hit of the party..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:52 PM

I prefer the book Ahab's Wife, m'self.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:52 PM

No - Rolf Harris already did that ...

I can get my hands on a chainsaw, if that would help you ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: gnu
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:06 PM

And that's it hangin on the shed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:12 PM

All together now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: gnu
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM

Tie me kangaroo down....!


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:15 PM

Sad....

The New Testament is some of the finest writing on Earth...

Lotta wisdom...

Lotta wisdom in the Psalms in the old Testament, too...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:52 PM

Why do people always say that stuff--"the bible is beautiful poetic literature"? No. It isn't. It just sounds good because English is a beautiful, poetic language. Anything sounds good in English--somebody should tell the Brits.

No, Bobert, the finest writing on earth is "Moby Dick." Just read this:

Nantucket! Take out your map and look at it. See what a real corner of the world it occupies; how it stands there, away off shore, more lonely than the Eddystone lighthouse. Look at it - a mere hillock, and elbow of sand; all beach, without a background. There is more sand there than you would use in twenty years as a substitute for blotting paper. Some gamesome wights will tell you that they have to plant weeds there, they don't grow naturally; that they import Canada thistles; that they have to send beyond seas for a spile to stop a leak in an oil cask; that pieces of wood in Nantucket are carried about like bits of the true cross in Rome; that people there plant toadstools before their houses, to get under the shade in summer time; that one blade of grass makes an oasis, three blades in a day's walk a prairie; that they wear quicksand shoes, something like Laplander snowshoes; that they are so shut up, belted about, every way inclosed, surrounded, and made an utter island of by the ocean, that to their very chairs and tables small clams will sometimes be found adhering, as to the backs of sea turtles. But these extravaganzas only show that Nantucket is no Illinois.

Look now at the wondrous traditional story of how this island was settled by the red-men. Thus goes the legend. In olden times an eagle swooped down upon the New England coast, and carried off an infant Indian in his talons. With loud lament the parents saw their child borne out of sight over the wide waters. They resolved to follow in the same direction. Setting out in their canoes, after a perilous passage they discovered the island, and there they found an empty ivory casket, - the poor little Indian's skeleton.

What wonder, then, that these Nantucketers, born on a beach, should take to the sea for a livelihood! They first caught crabs and quohogs in the sand; grown bolder, they waded out with nets for mackerel; more experienced, they pushed off in boats and captured cod; and at last, launching a navy of great ships on the sea, explored this watery world; put an incessant belt of circumnavigations round it; peeped in at Behring's Straits; and in all seasons and all oceans declared everlasting war with the mightiest animated mass that has survived the flood; most monstrous and most mountainous! That Himmalehan, salt-sea Mastodon, clothed with such portentousness of unconscious power, that his very panics are more to be dreaded than his most fearless and malicious assaults!

And thus have these naked Nantucketers, these sea hermits, issuing from their ant-hill in the sea, overrun and conquered the watery world like so many Alexanders; parcelling out among them the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans, as the three pirate powers did Poland. Let America add Mexico to Texas, and pile Cuba upon Canada; let the English overswarm all India, and hang out their blazing banner from the sun; two thirds of this terraqueous globe are the Nantucketer's. For the sea is his; he owns it, as Emperors own empires; other seamen having but a right of way through it. Merchant ships are but extension bridges; armed ones but floating forts; even pirates and privateers, though following the sea as highwaymen the road, they but plunder other ships, other fragments of the land like themselves, without seeking to draw their living from the bottomless deep itself. The Nantucketer, he alone resides and riots on the sea; he alone, in Bible language, goes down to it in ships; to and fro ploughing it as his own special plantation. There is his home; there lies his business, which a noah's flood would not interrupt, though it overwhelmed all the millions in China. He lives on the sea, as prairie cocks in the prairie; he hides among the waves, he climbs them as chamois hunters climb the Alps. For years he knows not the land; so that when he comes to it at last, it smells like another world, more strangely than the moon would to an Earthsman. With the landless gull, that at sunset folds her wings and is rocked to sleep between billows; so at nightfall, the Nantucketer, out of sight of land, furls his sails, and lays him to his rest, while under his very pillow rush herds of walruses and whales.

********

What in all the bible can compare to that? Prose that makes poetry sound crude in comparison. What I wouldn't give to sit up all night with Melville discussing this book over endless mugs of stout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:12 PM

Like they say, "Ya can lead a horse to water but ya' can't make 'um drink"...

One day, Joez, you might get it... Until then, keep her harpoon sharp and ready...

Me??? I'll take the Bible...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:25 PM

You can have it, mate.

I'm goin' a-whalin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 11:32 PM

Well, have a whale of a time ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 11:42 PM

This was my bible for many years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 06:40 AM

The Bassist's Bible according to my instructor


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 06:54 AM

"Thar HE blows!!" (again)


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Musket
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 07:05 AM

My bible is, and always will be Viz.

I do accept the Kings James Bible is said to be well written for its day and is a literary masterpiece in its own right. But that doesn't elevate it above any other collection of stories and tales, based loosely on historic characters.

The fact it is well written and can be used to interpret a moral code for those who need such a crutch, or by tradition cannot think beyond it does not put it above or below any other book when judged on artistic merit.

I certainly find Moby Dick wonderful to read. The bible must be heavy going, judging by the very small parts I have heard during weddings and funerals, spoken from the pulpit. Not exactly gripping stuff.

Viz however describes the world we live in. Or at least parts of oop north.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 09:22 AM

Moby Dick - the best book ever written? Maybe. Gnostic? Who can say? You find those same dualities in most good writing surely? Shame it hasn't yielded anything near a good film version though. And there is a truly dreadful sci-fi sequel called The Wind Whales of Ishmael...

I agree the Bible is mostly pretty turgid (I much prefer the Psalms in Common Prayer) and could do with serious editing but the Gnostic stuff is much worse; it's all mad-horse stuff, sub-Lovecraftian psuedo mythos with even less insights into the human condition from which it springs like sixth-form schlock. I do like Lovecraft though, mostly because his ideas fight with his inability to write resulting in the mantra-like qualities that make something like At The Mountains of Madness an astonishing read even to this day. Poe is a clever humourist, however so laboured at times (i.e. The Devil in the Belfy) but a hoot anyway, as is M R James, who is writing for a good voice (Michael Hordern does it wonders) & comic effect but still manages to do the job of putting the wind up.

My Bible was always The Pattern Under the Plough or The Leaping Hare; I always buy the Viz Christmas Special and The Broons / Oor Wullie restrospectives featuring the artwork of Dudley D. Watkins which I love dearly; I love the art books of Vic Reeves and Edward Gorey....


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:22 PM

The bible is a mish-mash written by so many collaborators that it has no particular
point of view. It's historical development is the scribbling of scribes who didn't know intellectually what they were writing and later a vehicle for agendas by religious clergy.

This is probably true for most scriptures of a religious nature.

Just look at how the American Constitution has been interpreted by so many
disparate politicians and demagogues.

A single author can offer a specific point of view rather than an account written
by committee.

However, a folk song can be improved by committee by contrast.

Today, history is being re-written for political ambition which is a way in which
the bible evolved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:22 PM

Gnosticism professes some very profound systems. It doesn't do any good reading them word for word and trying to extract a meaning. That's not how they are contructed. Calling them sub-Lovecraftian is particularly inane since they were around centuries before Lovecraft and Lovecraft wrote his stories before the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. The parallels are disturbing.

What makes Moby Dick a gnostic work is the way it is contructed: Ishmael leaves Manhatto, goes to New Bedford on a cold winter night, almost enters a black chuech by mistake, finds lodgings at the Spouter Inn, shares bed with Queequeg, departs for Nantucket in the morning after visiting the Whalemen's Chapel. Doesn't sound like anything Gnostic but if you understand the Gnostic systems, it's shocklingly Gnostic.

And, no, this does not work with any good writings today. And that's aside from the fact that there are no good writings today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM

Have to wonder why a thread in praise of Moby Dick has to be introduced with a slamming of a religious book.
I read both regularly, by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:44 PM

they were around centuries before Lovecraft and Lovecraft wrote his stories before the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library

The same could be said of Moby Dick of course...


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:31 PM

One wonders how "The Song of Solomon" got INTO the bible, while so many important writings were left out.

Much of Western thought was shaped by editors with an agenda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 02:36 PM

I like the Song of Solomon; it's a perfect piece of erotic writing which Christians are forever telling us is about Christ's love for the Church. I wonder if that includes the anal sex? (5:4)


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Amos
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:01 PM

The King James translation of the Christian bible is indeed some of the most beautiful poetry ever written in English; it is rich in metaphors, spiritual and emotional insights, literary mastery, alliterations and images, and all kinds of rich slices of life that have managed to transcend the passage of time. Just because the organizational side of Christianity has made just an absolute balls-up dog's breakfast out of the subject and corrupted the critical faculties of thousands of young men and women, is no reason to turn a tin ear to the better side of the subject.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM

Moby Dick, eh?

A penicillin shot should take care of that. . . .

Doc Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:05 PM

Brown paper and treacle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM

Bobert said ... "I'll take the bible." Yippee ... it's about time we got rid of that thing ... it's been a disaster to mankind. (just my humble opinon, of course. Why ... I can't even get one of my neighbors to agree with me. I know that because ... I'm surrounded by five churches. Most Sundays "bride Judy" and I have to leave home for fear we'll wear out the door knob because of local bible thumpers ... who are VERY INTERESTED in our bank account). ((forgive me if I digress)). bob (nice guy)nelson


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:33 PM

Yep, Bob... we can trade it in on Oahspe. Has drawing & charts and images of prophets...etc...

(I have a copy...verrrryyy interesting!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:54 PM

Wasn't Josepp off on that one a few months back? Either that or Rosicrucianism. Edgar Cayce, perhaps?

I suppose Moby Dick is as good as a lot of them. Although if I remember correctly, Melville leaned toward the idea that a whale was a fish rather than a mammal, based on Biblical grounds as I recall.

Have a care! Subversive elements are everywhere!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: josepp
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:58 PM

///The same could be said of Moby Dick of course...///

But Melville's ststement of the book being the gospels of the 19th century intrigue me. He was friends with Hawthorne who was supposedly quite interested in TM and he and Melville once talked long into the night about things. After this discussion, Melville completely rewrote the manuscript. Now why did he do that and what did they talk about?

As for Lovecraft, the weird parallels between his fiction and the real world concerning things neither he nor anyone in his time or at least his culture could have known is perplexing. Being an atheist and rationalist, he laughed such things off but he never lived long enough to hear of some of the weirdest parallels.

The only thing the bible is good for is that it preserves in some form much older strains of thought and mystical poetry that is completely gone today. For example, whenever the angels in the gospels speak, it is always in verse leading many scholars to believe that the words attributed to them were much older poetry appropriated by the author(s). The same with the opening of John, it is a poem although the original text is now long gone. It proves that the ideas put forth as original to Christianity were, not surprisingly, borrowed from older religions and mystical traditions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 06:22 PM

I am so glad that people have found their bilbies - they are in danger of becoming extinct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: Musket
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 05:16 AM

Ah well, as I said earlier, my bible is Viz.

Interestingly, it is found on the top shelf at newsagents as it could corrupt.

If newsagents sold the "other" bible, I wonder if would be sold on the same shelf for the same reason?


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 05:44 AM

I think it was Mark E. Smith who first pointed out that Viz isn't as funny as it used to be. Be that as it may (as I say I only buy the Christmas number these days), I wonder if you level the same criticism at The Bible? Or Moby Dick for that matter? Of course these texts are unchanging, but tastes in humour are in a more or les constant flux. Does anyone actually laugh at The Devil in the Belfry these days? Much less the moronic antics of Three Stooges, The Crazy Gang or (God forbid) that most Gnostic of vaudevillian cross-dressers Old Mother Riley... But some things are perennial classics: Laurel and Hardy, The Marx Brothers, The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer... but what of the various Epistles of the Apostle Paul? And can we really accept Melville's comically grotesque portrayal of Queequeg as anything else other than vile racial stereotyping these days?

I still buy Fortean Times and Private Eye for a bit of sanity, though you might find the odd copy of Loaded lying around the WC as well as Mojo, depending who's in it. It was nice reading about The Ramones in the recent edition, though the piece on Fela Kuti was barely literate - and I love Fela Kuti.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally found my bible
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 05:58 AM

For me it has to be the A-Z Map of Britain with all the A + B roads especially now that summer is almost here. Now to decide where to go next or kindly make a suggestion to the driver of the bike. It had been my passport but it is due to run out in three months time and I can either splash out and update it or just stick to the UK for this year.


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