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Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph

GUEST,Simon Furey 22 Apr 11 - 05:42 AM
Sugwash 22 Apr 11 - 07:02 AM
Sugwash 22 Apr 11 - 03:44 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Apr 11 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Simon Furey 23 Apr 11 - 08:23 AM
Jim Dixon 26 Apr 11 - 07:32 PM
Jim Dixon 26 Apr 11 - 10:37 PM
Steve Gardham 27 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM
Steve Gardham 27 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM
Steve Gardham 27 Apr 11 - 03:02 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: GUEST,Simon Furey
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 05:42 AM

Hi all,
I am trying to track down the words of a Yorkshire poem which an old (long lost) mate of mine from Sheffield used to sing to a familiar Irish tune. I only remember fragments of the words and wonder if anybody can fill in the gaps and possibly give me the origin?
Here are the fragments:

Near to Chapeltown gate lived an old Yorkshire Tyke
For dealin' in 'osses you'd ne'er met his like
.......
He'd bit a great many but never been bit
......
......
...Isaac, a neighbouring cheat...
......
......
(big gap here in which the two rogues agree to swap horses)
......
......
"Oh Abby," says Izzy, "I'm sorry for thee.
"I thowt thee'd 'ave 'ad the more white o' the ee
"For my 'oss is dead......"
"Eh Izzy," says Abby, "so's mine, and it's flayed!"
So Abby......
And come off wi' a Yorkshireman's triumph at last,
For twixt two dead 'osses there's not much to choose,
But Abby was richer by the hide and four shoes.

Thanks in advance
Simon Furey


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Sugwash
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:02 AM

Here you go

The Yorkshire Horse Traders

What Irish tune does your mate use?

Andy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Sugwash
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:44 PM

A translation:




The Yorkshire Horse Dealers

Anonymous

Bain to Clapham town-end lived an owd Yorkshire tike,
Who i' dealing i' horseflesh had ne'er met his like;
'T were his pride that i' all the hard bargains he'd hit,
He'd bit a girt monny, but niver bin bit.

This owd Tommy Towers (by that name he were known)
Had an owd carrion tit that were sheer skin an' bone;
To have killed him for t' curs wad have bin quite as well,
But 't were Tommy's opinion he'd dee on himsel!

Well! yan Abey Muggins, a neighborin cheat,
Thowt to diddle owd Tommy wad be a girt treat;
He'd a horse, too, 't were war than owd Tommy's, ye see,
For t' neet afore that he'd thowt proper to dee !

Thinks Abey, t' owd codger 'll niver smoke t' trick,
I'll swop wi' him my poor deead horse for his wick,
An' if Tommy I nobbut can happen to trap,
'T will be a fine feather i' Abraham cap!

So to Tommy he goes, an' the question he pops:
"Betwin thy horse and mine, prithee, Tommy, what swops?
What wilt gie me to boot? for mine's t' better horse still?"
"Nowt," says Tommy, "I'll swop even hands, an' ye will!"

Abey preached a lang time about summat to boot,
Insistin' that his were the liveliest brute;
But Tommy stuck fast where he first had begun,
Till Abey shook hands, an' said, Well, Tommy I done!

"O! Tommy," said Abey, "I's sorry for thee,
I thowt thou'd hae hadden mair white i' thy ee;
Good luck's wi' thy bargain, for my horse is deead."
"Hey!" says Tommy, "my lad, so is mine, an' it's fleead!"

So Tommy got t' better o' t' bargain a vast,
An' cam' off wi' a Yorkshireman's triumph at last;
For thof 'twixt deead horses there's not mich to choose,
Yet Tommy were richer by t' hide an' fower shooes.
 


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:26 PM

The song is by Henry Carey from the play 'The Honest Yorkshireman' 1735. It is variously known as 'The Yorkshire Tyke' or the title of the play. Although I have it in 7 collections none of them are what you would call folk-song anthologies. It was also put out as sheet music by Banks's of Leeds and York c1900. Kidson gives its history in 'The Minstrelsy of England' p219. The earliest copy I have is in Halliwell's Yorkshire Anthology 1851. It continued to be reprinted in all the subsequent Yorkshire Anthologies.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: GUEST,Simon Furey
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 08:23 AM

Thanks very much, both. I might have expected chapter and verse from you, Steve! The name of the Irish tune I cannot remember, though it is very well known. Expressed in (vaguely) ABC notation, it's a 3/4 jig of nearly all crotchets, and starts cA GEG GEG AFA AcA GEG Gcd edc AcA GEG GEG AFA A2A cde ged cAA A2 and so on. My command of ABC is even worse than my memory, but it should give you the idea - I hope!
Cheers
Simon


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Subject: Lyr Add: A CRAVEN SONG
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 07:32 PM

From Rambles by the Ribble, Volume 3 by William Dobson (Preston: W. Dobson, 1881), page 47:


[No title is given, but the page header says: A CRAVEN SONG. Craven is a district in N. Yorkshire.]

Bane* to Claapam town-gate** lived an owd Yorkshire tike,
Who i' dealing i' horseflesh had ne'er met his like;
'Twor his pride that i' aw the hard bargains he'd hit,
He'd bit a girt monny, but nivver bin bit.

This oud Tommy Towers*** (bi that naam he wor knaan)
Hed an oud carrion tit that wor sheer skin an' baan;
Ta hev killed him for t' curs wad hev bin quite as well,
But 'twor Tommy opinion**** he'd dee on himsel!

Well! yan Abey Muggins, a neishbourin cheat,
Thowt ta diddle oud Tommy wad be a girt treat;
Hee'd a horse, too, 'twor war than owd Tommy's, ye see,
For t'neet afore that hee'd thowt proper ta dee!

Thinks Abey, t'oud codger 'll niver smoak t' trick,
I'll swop wi' him my poor deead horse for his wick,
An' if Tommy I nobbut can happen ta trap,
'Twill be a fine feather i' Aberram cap!

Soa to Tommy he goas, an' the question he pops:
"Betwin thy horse and mine, prithee, Tommy, what swops?
"What wilt gi' me ta boot? for mine's t' better horse still!"
"Nout," says Tommy, "I'll swop ivven hands, an' ye will."

Abey preaached a long time about summat ta boot,
Insisting that his war the liveliest brute;
But Tommy stuck fast where he first had begun,
Till Abey sbook hands, and said, "Well, Tommy, done!"

"O! Tommy," said Abey, I'ze sorry for thee,
I thowt thou'n a hadden mair white i' thy ee;
Good luck's wi' thy bargin, for my horse is deead."
"Hey!" says Tommy, "my lad, soa is min, an' it's fleead!"

So Tommy got t' better of t' bargin, a vast,
An' cam' of wi a Yorkshlreman's triumph at last;
For thof 'twixt deead horses there's not mitch to choose,
Yet Tommy war richer by t' hide an' fower shooes.


* Near.
** The high-road through a town or village.
*** The descendants of Tommy Towers were residents at Clapham, till within a very recent period, and they often recounted this adventure of their ancestor, with great glee.
**** That is, "Tommy's opinion." In some parts of Yorkshire, as in some districts of Lancashire, it is customary to omit the s indicative of the possessive case.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE HONEST YORKSHIREMAN (Henry Carey)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 10:37 PM

Steve Gardham: you have given us some impressive documentation there, but I'm afraid the song you have so carefully traced is not the right song. I believe the following song is the one you had in mind, but it doesn't match the phrases quoted in the original request.

From the play "The Honest Yorkshire-Man," in The Dramatick Works of Henry Carey (London: Printed by S. Gilbert, 1743), page 230:



AIR XI. By the Author.

                      I.
        I am in Truth,
        A Country Youth,
Unus'd to London Fashions;
        Yet Virtue guides,
        And still presides,
O'er all my Steps and Passions:
        No courtly Leer,
        But all sincere;
No Bribe shall ever blind me:
        If you can like,
        A Yorkshire Tike,
An honest Man you'll find me.

                      II.
        Tho' Envy's Tongue,
        With Slander hung,
Does oft belye our County;
        No Men on Earth,
        Boast greater Worth.
Or more extend their Bounty.
        Our Northern Breeze,
        With us agrees,
And does for Business fit us:
        In Publick Cares,
        In Loves Affairs,
With Honour we acquit us.

                      III.
        A noble Mind,
        Is ne'er confin'd.
To any Shire or Nation:
        He gains most Praise,
        Who best displays
A gen'rous Education:
        While Rancour rouls
        In narrow Souls,
By narrow Views discerning,
        The truly Wise,
        Will only prize
Good Manners, Sense, and Learning.


The same song, under the title THE HONEST YORKSHIREMAN, appears with an arrangement for one voice and piano in The Minstrelsy of England by Frank Kidson (London: Bailey & Ferguson, 1901), page 219.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

Oops! Will recheck it all. Apologies if I got it wrong.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

Okay, let's try to make amends. Not quite as old as the other 'Yorkshire Tyke', and we don't yet know the author, though both appear to have been performed in the theatre.

The earliest copy I have is in Vol 1 of The Universal Songster, 1825, p331. title 'Tommy Towers and Abraham Muggins, or The Yorkshire Horse Dealers'. Useful notes are given by James Henry Dixon (Any relation, Jim?) in his 'Ancient Poems Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England, 1846, (republished by Bell later). p215. Both this song and the one I confused it with appear in all the Yorkshire anthologies and what I said about its appearance on sheet music c1900 was correct. Here's Dixon's intro, probably Dobson's source.

'This ludicrous and genuine Yorkshire song, the production of some unknown country minstrel, was very popular a few years ago, owing to the admirable singing of it by Emery. The incidents actually occurred at the close of the last century (18th), and some of the descendants of Tommy Towers were resident at Clapham till within a very recent period, and used to take great delight in relating the laughable adventure of their progenitor. Abey Muggins is understood to be a sobriquet for a then Clapham innkeeper. The village of Clapham is in the west of Yorkshire, on the high road betwixt Skipton and Kendal.'

The Dixon version is in much heavier dialect than the Universal Songster version.

Thanks for the correction, Jim. Please note, only people called Jim are allowed to point out my goofs on Mudcat.

Joe, it might be politic to put something like 'LOAD OF B*****KS' in red, on my earlier incorrect posting.

Simon,
Sorry I let you down.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Yorkshireman's triumph
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:02 PM

Just a tad more info from Jack Fairfax-Blakeborough, c1935.
'Emery sang this song with great success c1850 and it became one of the 'ditties' of the day, being sold at fairs and feasts as a broadsheet by itinerant balladmongers.' He then goes on at length about the derivations of the word 'Tyke'.


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