Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale

GUEST 22 Apr 11 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,leeneia 22 Apr 11 - 10:48 AM
Fred McCormick 22 Apr 11 - 12:09 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 11 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,leeneia 22 Apr 11 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,leeneia 22 Apr 11 - 06:09 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 05:14 AM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 05:16 AM
Fred McCormick 23 Apr 11 - 01:34 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 06:12 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 11 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Steve Mann 17 Jun 11 - 10:37 AM
Fred McCormick 17 Jun 11 - 11:28 AM
GUEST 17 Jun 11 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Steve Mann 20 Jun 11 - 09:45 AM
GUEST 08 Jul 11 - 06:50 PM
GUEST 08 Jul 11 - 06:54 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:35 AM

Hi all,

Does anybody know who performs the song in The Pardoner's Tale from Pasolini's Canterbury Tales, it's in the scene where the three young men first meet the old man death...it is heard in the beginning of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd1ZJSODOFo&feature=related

If not, does anybody know of any recordings of music like this, or to what tradition it belongs too. It's sounds like it might be religious, but definietely not high-Anglican tradition.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Best Wishes


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 10:48 AM

Hi, Guest. YOu pose a challenging question.

If I were making a movie set in Chaucer's time, and if I wanted to have background music which is supposedly coming from a church, I believe I would turn to Sarum chant for inspiration.

(I assume the movie was set in Chaucer's England, not in Russia or somewhere, as the video seems to indicate.)

Go to this site:

http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Culture.html

and listen to the music for Maundy Thursday. It seems similar to me.

I believe that in the movie the singers are not singing any actual words. That makes it seem more mysterious.

I believe you can learn more about Sarum (Salisbury) chant on Wikipedia and so forth.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:09 PM

It's Robert Cinnamond of Glenavy, Co. Antrim singing Napoleon Bonaparte, which he recorded in 1955 for Sean O'Boyle who was working on behalf of the BBC.

It was issued on Caedmon TC 1164/Topic 12T 196; The Folk Songs of Britain, The Vol 8: A Soldier's Life For Me, and also on Topic 12T 269 You Rambling Boys of Pleasure.

I remember seeing the film about 40 years ago, and I recall that Pasolini used a number of tracks from TFSB.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:24 PM

Thanks so much to both of you Leeneia and Fred


Leeneia you have opened a door with the Sarum chant. I had never heard of this before and am now interested to hear and learn more about it. I can hear a similarity in the piece you pointed to, but am very keen to track down the original piece as it has such a wonderful atmosphere.

Fred, I am familiar with the song you mention and it is definitely not Napolean Bonaparte by Robert Cinnamond, unless there is another version I haven't heard which is radically different. The piece I am asking about starts at the very beginning of the clip I posted, it is a male voice, there are no discernible lyrics and the voice is accompanied by a very simple drone which could be pipes, hurdy gurdie, accordion or harmonium, I can't tell. It sounds like rustic medieval, primitive liturgical music if you can imagine such a thing.

I did write to Topic records a couple of years back and they were at a loss, but they did mention the now defunct Caedmon label had been one of Pasolini's sources. No soundtrack album was issued for the film and there are no individual titles for the songs and musical pieces that feature in the film, which is a pity. I know there is another thread on mudcat that lists some of the pieces found in the film, but not this particular song. It cast a spell on me when I first saw the film 5 or 6 years ago.

Cheers

simon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 06:07 PM

Thanks for your gracious response, Guest.

I'm a Lutheran, and I encountered Sarum chant because the melodies were used for hymns in our hymnal. I enjoy thinking that people have been singing the melody I am now singing for centuries.

The music in the movie may not be an old chant. It may simply be in that style.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 06:09 PM

For anyone who likes old music, here's the URL for a site with church music from Ukraine.

http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/monks-orthodox/

It's beautiful and varied.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:14 AM

Wow. I listened to these chants last night before I went to sleep. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.


Still unsolved on the Pasolini front, here is a live link to the clip. First song you hear


Pardoner's Tale


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:16 AM

Sorry link here


Pardoner's Tale




cheers

simon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:34 PM

Guest. Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about the liturgical song at the start of the clip.

However, that is unequivocally Cinnamond singing further on. It starts at 3'40", right after the young man kisks his way through a flock of geese, or ducks or whatever they were.

And it is unequivocally Napoleon Bonaparte that he was singing. Granted the song is almost inaudible, but I turned the sound up as far as it would go, and I could distinctly make out "he was as valiant a Corsican as ever stood on Europe's land.......", as per the first verse.

BTW., Cinnamond only recorded it once and he seems to have been the only person from whom it was collected. As Pasolini used other material from The Folk Songs of Britain at other points in the soundtrack, it's hard to imagine that it could be anyone else.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:12 PM

OK Fred, I was really pleased with the thorough answer you gave, please don't think I was doubting that Robert Cinnamond's voice is in the film. It's just not the song or the scene I was asking about and I wanted to be absolutely clear about the track I was talking about in case anybody thought it had been solved. I actually have a recording of the LP the Robert Cinnamond track appears on and I wouldn't have noticed it in the film if you hadn't pointed it out. My partner is a huge Paddy Tunney fan and was really excited when I mentioned Robert Cinnamond (who Paddy held in very high esteem).

The jury is still out. I have had another lead from a chap who says the liturgical piece in question sounds like early Irish/Gaelic liturgy. If anybody knows any good recordings of this kind (possibly dating of music I would really appreciate hearing about them.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd1ZJSODOFo






cheers

simon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:14 PM

*typo

Possibly dating from around the 60s or 70s.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST,Steve Mann
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 10:37 AM

Hi Simon

Great to see your thread.
Ever since I saw the film in Oxford in 1988 I have been fascinated by the wonderful hubbub of music and the incredible locations which together give it such a verve and life.
I was over in England last week and managed during a week of visits to friends to visit some of the locations (which I have been trying to work out from a distance for some time), my trip including visits to the undercroft at Battle Abbey (the merchant's hall in tale 1), Southwark (the old abbey seen when Perkin is conning extra soup!), Coggeshall Barn (the inn in the Pardoner's Tale), St. Osyth Priory in Essex (the exterior of the Merchant's hall - probably the topiary garden too but currently closed to the public (although ironically it was open last weekend for special reasons, after I had moved on), Layer Marney Tower in Essex (I'm not sure what this was used for) and Chipping Campden in Gloucestershire (the village and market in the Pardoner's Tale).
I have no idea where any of the other locations are - except the George Inn in Norton St. Phillip near Bath, which is the Inn in the Miller's Tale (and also used in Tom Jones and Joseph Andrews among others). I know Wells and Canterbury and Cambridge are also used but I have no idea where in the film?
Does anyone have any ideas? I think the mill is Rolvenden in Kent. And the Tom Baker scenes are in Lavenham, Suffolk (see also Witchfinder General!).
As for the music, I would love to get my hands on some of the recordings used since they are superb! You might have read on another thread that some I could identify are:-
The Dreadnaught - sung by ?
Paddy West - seemingly sung by Hugh Griffith but perhaps A L Lloyd?
See the Little Fishes (don't know title) - the Copper Family
The Little Journeyman - Sarah Makem
Royal Forester - John Strachan
Torn a' ma' Goon - ditto?

They seem to belong to the milieu of pre Lloyd and McColl recordings done by the likes of Topic which seem to include a lot of Irish and Scottish stuff - do I detect Seamus Ennis in some of the pipe tunes and also in a version of the "Devil and the Farmer's Wife" ("There was an old couple who lived near hell" etc).

I would love to try and get a discography down of this film. Its nice to see the Napoleon reference which I will listen out for.

Steve


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 11:28 AM

Steve. It's donkey's years since I saw the film but, as far as I can remember, all the songs were taken from the Topic/Caedmon LP series of field recordings of traditional singers from Britain and Ireland.

If so, Torn a' ma' goon would have been sung by Jimmmy McBeath, and the Little Fishes would have been by the Coppers (Bob and Ron), but they called it The Merry Haymakers.

Of the two others, Paddy West was sung by Timothy Walsh of Devonport, and The Dreadnaught (listed on the LP as The Liverpool Packet) was sung Bill Barber of Cadgwith Cove in Cornwall.

If the square box in the corner of my living room ever gets to showing the film again, I'll list all the songs and post same on Mudcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 12:03 PM

Thanks Fred.
I've got a spare DVD copy which I'm happy to send you if you had the inclination to undertake letting me know the songs!
Send me an address to stephen.mann@talktalk.net if you fancy.
Since messaging I've managed to pick up 3 of the Caedmon albums on You Tube (they seem to form part of a series of 10, obviously long deleted)- so that will presumably assist.
It's fun how some of the songs are so incongruous to the action they accompany (14th century merchant singing songs about a 19century packet ship crimp) but I now imagine the creation of the score as involving Ennio Morricone randomly changing the Caedmon discs and sticking on any old track to accompany the action!
Best wishes and have a good weekend
Steve


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST,Steve Mann
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 09:45 AM

Thanks to this very helpful site I have identified another of the songs I liked: seems to be called the Campanero.
And sung by one Bill Cameron.
Appears on the Songs of Sailormen issue of the Topic/Caedmon set.
Easy when you know how!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 06:50 PM

Hello folks,

Wow, a lot of info since I was last here. Thanks for sharing those locations Steve, I'm going to keep a note of them.

So, still hunting for the liturgical piece, but I now know that it is a rendering of "Haec dies" and that the presence of the instrument in the song is unusual. I have listened to around 150 different versions of Haec dies, and whilst I recognise the tune, I have yet to hear a version that comes close to the version in the film. Any info, please do let me know.

Some good news is that after going through both the British Library and a couple of University libraries to no avail, my local library managed to get a reference copy of a book by an Italian academic (written in Italian) which is all about how Pasolini used music in his films. Some of the sacred music is difficult to find as particular performances or recording aren't listed but I can offer this comprehensive breakdown of all the folk songs from Topic Records that are featured in the film. They are listed sequentially more or less how they appear in the film.

As follows

1. Ould Piper - Frank McPeak (from Jack of all Trades)
2. Jug of Punch - Edward Quinn (from Jack of all Trades)
3. Going up Camborne Hill - ? (from Songs of Animals and Other Marvels)
4. The Farmers Curst Wife - ? (from Child Ballads vol II)
5. Paddy West - Timothy Walsh (Songs of Sailormen and Serving Maids)
6. The Coolin - Paddy West (Songs of Courtship)
7. Dairy Maid - John Maguire (Jack of all Trades)
8. Bundle and Go - John Doherty (Jack of all Trades)
9. The Wind Blew the Bonnies Lassie's Plaidie Awa' - Jimmy McBeath, Duncan Burker, Jeannie Robertson (Songs of Seduction)
10. The Wee Weaver - John Doherty (Jack of all Trades)
11. The Royal Forester ? (The Knight and the Shepherd's Daughter)
12. Behind the Bush in the Garden - Seamus Ennis (Songs of Seduction)
13. Merry Haymakers - Bob & Ron Copper (Jack of all Trades)
14. Torna Ma Goon - Jimmy McBeath (Songs of Seduction)
15. The Liverpool Packet - Billy Barber (Songs of Sailormen and Serving Maids)
16. Gower Wassail - ? possibly Phil Tanner (Songs of Ceremony)
17. Oxford City - Mary Doran (Fair Game and Foul)
18. Newlyn Town - (Fair Game and Foul)
19. The Brown Thorn - Seamus Ennis (Songs of Seduction)
20. Cornish May Carol ? (Songs of Ceremony)
21. Our Wedding Day - Francis McPeake (Songs of Courtship)
22. Hal An Tow - ? Songs of Ceremony
23. Campanero - Bill Cameron (Songs of Sailormen and Serving Maids)
24. The Roving Journey Man - Blanche Wood (Jack of all Trades)
25. Our Gallant Ship - William Howell (Songs of Sailormen and Serving Maids)
26. Ailein Duinn ??
27. Napolean Bonaparte - Robert Cinnamond (A Soldier's Life for Me)

I have 22 of the listed tracks but am missing a few. So if anyone can get in touch with how I can pick up the tracks from "Songs of Ceremony", "Animals and Other Marvels" both volumes of "The Child Ballads" and The Royal Forester, let me know and I'll drop you a pm.

Best Wishes

simon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Song from Pasolini's Pardoner's Tale
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 06:54 PM

oops

Newlyn Town is by Bob Scarce


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 18 June 7:40 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.