BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 12:16 AM

Greg F. "Its worth less than shit, Goofus. Assuming you can read, do check the Snopes article, asshole."

I think you ran your mouth before reading AND understanding the Snopes article on that...Here, this is a quote from the Snopes page you posted and referred to:

"Carter explicitly outlined the reasons behind the issuance of sanctions (including visa cancellation for Iranian nationals) and underscored his intent to pressure Iran's regime."

...and what I posted was: "....Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth.."

Get some toilet paper, and wipe your mouth.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:49 PM

Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth..

Its worth less than shit, Goofus. Assuming you can read, do check the Snopes article, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:34 PM

Greg F. "Enough of the Faux News Re-Fried Horseshit, Guest Asshole."

'Faux News' wasn't around when Roosevelt rounded up the Japanese and put then in relocation camps....Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:09 PM

Imam Nidal Alsayed, who leads the Islamic Center of Triplex in Beaumont, said while he agrees with Trump on closing the door until more review is conducted, "this should not prevent the United States to fulfill its duties towards international partners" and calls of humanity outside the United States.

Alsayyed said he does not believe there is anything unconstitutional about Trump's proposal saying, "when it comes to peace and safety," a ban would be acceptable.

"We American Muslims need to be sincere in our religion and to the country we are living in. Peace comes before religion. We need to be truthful and transparent when we express a viewpoint or feedback. It does not matter whether Trump said it or anyone else," said the imam.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM

I always thought the Trump was the warm-up comedy act for the main show.
He's doing the hard warm-up work and the "star turn" whoever that may be) will get the applause and curtain calls (Votes)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:37 AM

I wonder if he kisses his wife with that mouth. For a smart rich guy he really has no clue about life. Sadly he rises in the polls ugh

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:21 AM

Bullshit, oh Brainless One.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:13 AM

"anti-Muslim hysteria is sweeping the U.S. its only a matter of time before we see a pogrom on Muslims"

There already is a pogrom on Christians by hysterical Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 09:45 AM

Someone is attacking Christians.

Bullshit, oh Nameless One.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:52 AM

Gibberish.

"Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation."

Someone is attacking Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:33 AM

Furthermore, unlike country of origin, religious faith is not something which immigration authorities can ascertain. Nationality is an empirical fact, but religious affiliation is 100% self-declared. If a terror-bent Islamist is willing to shave his beard, shove a copy of the King James Bible into his carry-on bag, and claim to be a Christian, how can anyone prove otherwise?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 05:57 AM

If you can't differentiate between people from a country with an agenda and anybody from anywhere based on how they say God, there's no hope for you.

Don't worry. It's what we expect We'd never be able to point and laugh at you all without you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 05:46 AM

In 1979, the attorney general issued all Iranian students to report to their local immigration offices. While 7,000 were in violation of their visas, 15,000 Iranians were forced to leave the U.S.

The words were from a jimmy carter speech. Snopes says it is true. GF is the hate monger here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 03:52 AM

Banning him isn't the answer. Ridiculing him is far more appropriate.

If we ban him, it means there is something in what he says that we see as a threat, bolstering the bigotry of the low intelligence creatures who support him.

People who express any bigotry inspired incitement to hatred need to be exposed, laughed at and their opinions condemned and dismissed. Just as we do with homophobia, misogyny and racism. Banning them makes them feel they must be on to something.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:07 PM

Enough of the Faux News Re-Fried Horseshit, Guest Asshole.

See:

http://www.snopes.com/jimmy-carter-banned-iranian-immigrants/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM

There is a UK petition to have Trump banned from the UK which after around a day has so far reached 346,186: more than three times the level where it will be considered for a parliamentary debate. Considered for, you note: it need not happen.

My guess is that since, however unlikely, there is a chance Trump gets elected President I am sure all our uk politicians will see the potential embarrassment of banning the us president, so the debate probably won't happen, and I don't see a ban if one does take place..

Politics, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:48 PM

"The Secretary of Treasury [State] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:24 PM

He's an ignorant POS.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:19 PM

Is it really the same Trump as in the golf course?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:06 PM

Reviewing this five year old thread is both amusing and horrifying.

But when war criminal Dick Cheney falls Trump a racist bigot and the front cover of the New York Daily News (cue Tom Paxton)looks like
THIS, things are REALLY getting beyond bizarre.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:35 PM

Here's a movie trailer for a documentry about a golf course The Donald has tried to build in Scotland:


You've been Trumped

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:48 PM

OK. Let's take it to the next level. The only thing these jerks understand is raw power. Voting is power. But poll place voting is not always the "it." And "they" are actively working to limit our poll place voting power by challenging voter rolls, and even hacking voting machinery.

But money is power. And even if none of us has LOTS of money individually, together we have lots of money. And therefore, power. It took a little while to "deck Beck." But it happened. Turning "Beck" into a verb, let's "Beck Trump."

NBC 1-212-664-4444
NBC Entertainment:
Rebecca Marks, Executive Vice President, Publicity
818-777-3030
[e-mail]

Change.org has a petition you can sign:
http://www.change.org/petitions/dont-support-donald-trump-and-boycott-the-sponsors-of-nbcs-the-celebrity-apprentice-3

This petition targets the major sponsors and supporters of Celebrity Apprentice:
CEO, Enterprise Rental Car Company(Andrew C. Taylor)
The Walt Disney Company(Robert Iger)
The Clorox Company(Donald R. Knauss)
Director, Business Communications, Bristol-Myers Squibb(Laura Hortas)
CEO, Groupon Inc.(Andrew Mason)
Executive VP, Publicity, NBC Entertainment(Rebecca Market)
CEO, Sprint-Nextel Wireless(Dan Hesse)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:51 PM

Hear, Hear, Andy!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:25 PM

More from Andy Borowitz:


Trump Undecided About What Stupid Shit to Say Next
Longest Period of Speechlessness on Record, Experts Say

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report) - With the public's attention focused on the death of Osama bin Laden, billionaire Donald Trump huddled with advisors for the second straight day to try to decide what stupid shit to say next.

"The bin Laden thing has definitely stolen the headlines from Donald," said close associate and advisor Tracy Klugian. "The only way he can grab them back is by doing what he does best: saying something really fucked up."

Trump's two-day hiatus from spewing messed up shit is the longest on record, experts say, adding to the pressure on the billionaire to break his silence with something truly craptastic.

To that end, he has closeted himself with a circle of advisors including the Rev. Pat Robertson, former NBA star Charles Barkley, and the former voice of the Aflac duck, Gilbert Gottfried.

Mr. Trump has drawn up a short list of verbal turds that have potential, including attacking President Obama for overdue library books during his grade school years, but so far he has failed to come up with a comment that is both objectionable and ill informed enough to meet his high standards.

"People don't know how much work goes into saying the stupid shit Donald says," Mr. Klugian said. "He just makes it look easy."

Elsewhere, in another setback for al-Qaeda, the terror network confirmed today that Osama bin Laden was the only person who knew the organization's iTunes password.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 May 11 - 10:49 PM

"Is he worth all that attention?"

Interesting question from someone who is contributing to "all that attention".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:33 PM

Wrong!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:13 PM

I think you got it, Tia. Actually, it sounds like one of the personalities may have been slightly critical of the other, though; maybe the disassociation explains why Gfs has posted things and then
denied posting them later.

(The comeback to that may get real interesting) : )

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:25 PM

Bad Bob -
The ubiquitous and spurious commas give it all away.
Just sayin....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:41 PM

What many people forget when they sneer at the now obvious inconsistencies of Greek democracy is that Greek democracy was the first of its kind on Planet Earth. It was a giant step up from arbitrary monarchism. ("I'm the King! I rule from God! Why should I care about you...?")

And the idea that everybody deserves a vote (well, lots of people anyway) was rarely practiced anywhere else in the world apart from early Greek inspiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 11 - 03:32 PM

Greek--specifiacally Athenian Democracy definitely had its flaws, but in concept and practice, in many crucial ways it was superior to what we have today. Slavery, yes, but these were generally enemy troops captured in battle. It was not an institutionalized part of their economy. Nor did it target particular racial groups the way slavery in the southern United States did. It was usually for a short time, then they were sent home with the admonition, "Don't do it again!"

Only men had the vote. Not women. But there were many men at the time who strongly pointed out that by not including women in their deliberations (and many councils and symposia DID!), they were wasting about half of the city-state's intellectual power. The disenfranchisement of women was not specifically Greek. It was the world view at the time, and remember:   that viewpoint didn't crumble until very recently, and in some places in the world, it still prevails.

Here's the kicker:   All Athenian citizens were expected to keep up with current affairs, and there could be disastrous consequences if they did not. Here's how. There were no political parties. The Athenians knew what that could lead to, which we have obviously forgotten, and it now limits our choices to only what the Powers that Be chose to present us with. In Athens, candidates were chosen from the citizenry at large by lottery. YOU might suddenly be in charge! You served for a specified period of time, then someone else would be chosen by lottery to replace you.

Now hear this:   The citizens at large would then vote on how well you did. You could be awarded a laurel wreath and great honors if you did well. But—if you screwed up royally or were just generally incompetent, you could be banished from Athens.

And this was decided by the citizens at large.

Juries (501, again, chosen at random, by lottery) and councils (the first 6,000 citizens to arrive on "The Hill") were far too large for anyone to bribe.

Well, I could go on about the virtues and flaws of Athenian Democracy, but it's already been done, quite neatly in First Democracy, The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. It's a fast and easy read, and it's a real eye-opener.

Woodruff ends with a chapter that asks, "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?"

Like I say, it's a real eye-opener.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:53 PM

Q, the vaunted Greek democracy has always struck me as strange- they had many slaves/noncitizens with no voice in government and women had no role.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:05 PM

Greek democracy? If I remember my school history, some 20,000 citizens out of many, including slaves.
Of course limiting rights to the few always works better than letting everyone in.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:26 AM

On a roll now - 99, 100 ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:33 AM

First, thanks 'Bad Bob'. I agree that integrity begins with US, here, at home...and in our own hearts, before we go dictating to the rest of the populace, that We, being compromised, is an honorable thing! That being said, Don has a point..but to a point...and that is, while it is true, that so many yard-birds out there just take the corrupted political system, without question, because its ALL we can get, some of us here in Mudcat-Land are writers, and composers and musicians...and, of all people, who should NOT lay down, it is us!!!
You would think, that REAL writers, SHOULD be independent thinkers. What you are hearing(or reading) is the remnants of worn out, and burnt out spectators, who think by posting an 'opinion', that that is the best they can do!...I think its hogwash! It's NOT all that can be done...but, if you think that you are done, then just give up the ghost, and play dead!..Let others do your thinking for you! Discard any God given talent to make a difference, and wish for the 'good ol' days' to return.....IN YOUR DREAMS!!!
You are new here, I think, and instead of trying to get political parrots to think, you will only hear them repeat worn out platitudes, and accusations, that they have NOT yet realized, that are burnt out and useless!..Lifeless rhetoric, that reaches no one, but rather, serves only to assure the dead, that they are still do dead, to independently think, and moreover, DO something about it..to win the hearts and minds of people, to stand FOR something, that stands tall!!!!
Let me give you an example, which is true, by the way...I recently had some people over, older people(than me), and invited them down to my basement studio, to give them a private time of listening to some music, that I have composed..mostly since I've been coming onto the Mudcat Forum. Now, I don't know how long you've been reading the posts, on here, but if you've spent much time, you would have noticed that all but a few on here, think I'm 'out of touch' with their predominantly 'left/liberal' political hypocrisy. That being said, I'm NOT a 'right wing' promoter, either. But rather, I try to lift up the HUMAN spirit, and not align myself with either side, that would rather us have the intellect and behavior of mere insects!..That being said, (back to my point), this couple were completely blown away by what they heard, and said, "Listening to your music is life-changing...I mean seriously..."
When I heard that, the first thing that popped into my head was, "Like in what way?".....My answer came when one said, "I haven't felt those things, in at least, over 35 years.."
THIS is the kind of thing that any one of us CAN do, if we could get our heads, OUT of 'political' thinking, and return to identifying ourselves with loving our fellow humans, and writing, and speaking, and playing TO that human spirit, which binds ALL of us together..BEFORE we throw it away, on some ideological notion, which to be a member of, you must throw away your sense of loving unity!..and sell out, to let politicos speak and think for you!..then get the 'seal of approval' from a bunch of non-thinking parrots!...some even eloquent, non-thinking parrots!!!
Don't be mislead, and/or fooled....go with the beauty that you know in you, and reach the beauty in someone else. That, by the way, is rather contagious...and more influence on a world that needs this..more than a bunch of parrots, trying to make sure no other parrots escape the 'flock'.
Got it?
With independent thinking, bring that influence back to a desperate people..who need the clarity, of independence from manipulated 'party' control!!!!
Best Wishes..and do not listen to discouragement, from the sell outs!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 09:46 PM

GUEST,Bad Bob, rather than driving straight for the cliff's edge, it would be better to drive away from it—even if it were in a zig-zag path instead of directly away. At least you're going in a more-or-less right direction instead of straight toward disaster.

Obvious to me.

You're NEVER going to find an ideal candidate. All you can EFFECTIVELY do is select the best one out of the several offering themselves. BUT!! The one you select should at least have a decent chance of getting elected, not splitting the vote for an acceptable candidate who at least has a reasonable chance and will do a better job than the other major candidate.

That's politics. Even the Greeks knew that, and their Democracy lasted a hell of a lot longer than ours has so far, and in many ways operated much better than ours does. And their Democracy didn't fail through internal corruption, it fell due to external conquest. The Macedonians.

Don Firth

P. S. "Is he worth all that much attention?" No, but other issues this thread as brought up are.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 07:41 PM

One hundred and sixty posts so far.

Is he worth all that attention?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Bad Bob
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 07:27 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies

Don at 6:56 has it right.    "Sanity' and other brilliant thinkers of that ilk can feel warm and fuzzy.

And that's far more important than getting anything done politically--as we all know, of course.


just ask Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Shaw of Iran, etc, etc.

Sanity makes a lot more sense, than getting something done, for the sake of politics. I would think that getting something done should start with getting something right, before just continuing down a wrong road, which the majority of Americans think we are on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 12:28 PM

Yet again:   the "birther" conspiracy theory is a huge positive for Obama.   It has split the Republican party--Republican candidates have the interesting task of trying to get 'birther" votes without seeming to accept the theory--since Republicans who can think (Rove, Linda Chavez, and a whole host of other prominent members of the GOP, as well as other members of the party, want no part of it. And above all, independents---who will in fact determine the 2012 election, think it--and by extension any supporters--is just plain looney.   As it of course is.

It has also seemingly united everybody left of center behind Obama again--just look at the comments on this thread--some from people who had harshly criticized Obama for imagined sins of omission or commission.

It has also distracted people from the real problems now facing the US--in many issues, none of which are at this point looking good for the president.

It will be wonderful for Obama if--as seems likely--it never goes away.

And even better if Mr. Trump runs for GOP nominee for president, loses, then runs as an independent. Among other things, think of all the money the other Republicans would have to spend to defeat him.   And think of the charges they would toss at each other.

Well, we can dream.


What we really should be concerned about is that Ralph Nader has raised his incredibly ugly head --yet again--to search for a candidate to run against Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 10:35 AM

"""Donald Trump is a self made man."

I could make myself too if my dad gave me all that money. I could make a number of me. ""

ZZZZZZZiiiiiiiiiiiiipppppppppppppp!

That's the sound of a point flying close above somebody's head.


If you read the whole post Gnu, you will get that I was talking about what made him a bastard.

Get it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 09:33 AM

It is truly sad when a piece of garbage like [Trump] can get media time attacking a man with Obama's credentials.

That's not so sad. What's REALLY fu$king sad (and dangerous!)are the mindless imbeciles who BELIEVE Trump's bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:48 PM

Thanks Don - once again Australia leads the way - you know who designed those self jacking cranes used to build skyscrapers?

Right again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:43 PM

Just a note for Mudcatters:

I've started dropping Facebook 'friends' who subscribe to the 'birther conspiracy'. No further notices or warnings will be given.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 10:21 PM

Don at 6:56 has it right.    "Sanity' and other brilliant thinkers of that ilk can feel warm and fuzzy.

And that's far more important than getting anything done politically--as we all know, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 09:18 PM

The Don sets a new tone in American politics:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110429/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_donald_trump_vegas_10

CNN aired several additional (bleeped) tidbits. He managed to work in most of the words you'd expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: bobad
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:08 PM

Right on gnu!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:04 PM

"Trump is a personable guy..."

Hahahahahahahahaaa. Ohhhh my!!!

Trump is an arrogant, egotistical asshole who has NO intention of running for president. He only cares about getting his face in the news. He is a no mind rich shallow twit who is making money off those that would suck up the hate and lies that he spews.

Nice work if he can get it. I wish he would crawl back under his rock and stop inciting those he seems to be able to manipulte. It is truly sad when a piece of garbage like him can get media time attacking a man with Obama's credentials. Truly fucking sad.

PT Barnum would be right fuckin proud!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 06:56 PM

Unfortunately, with the two-party system in the United States, most of the time, one is in the position of having to vote for what one considers to be the lesser of two evils rather than a candidate one prefers. Third parties have popped in and out of existence, but almost always, they fill the function of being spoilers. Thusly:

The "Gargantua #1" party, which you generally prefer because of its platform and general policies, is fielding a candidate whom you do not like very much. But you regard him as far preferable to the candidate offered by the "Gargantua #2" party, who you feel would be an absolute disaster were he elected. So—the lesser of two evils is "Gargantua #1's" candidate.

But along comes the "Itty-Bitty Teensy Tinesy" party, and although the candidate they offer is fairly obscure, you happen to believe that he can heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water and sing like Nelson Eddy. You decide that he would be, by far, the very person to run the country.

But the likelihood of his garnering more than a small percentage of the votes is all but non-existant. But you vote for him anyway. And you feel all warm and fuzzy. Your principles and integrity are intact.

When the votes are counted, they break down like this:

Gargantua #2's candidate --- 52%
Gargantua #1's candidate --- 47%
Itty-Bitty Teensy Tinesy's candidate --- 5%

Now, no way in hell would those who voted for the IBTT candidate have ever voted for G-2's candidate. If the IBTT candidate hadn't been there, they would have voted for G-1's candidate. They may have held their noses when they did so, but they felt that if the G-2's candidate was elected, it would have been a national catastrophy.

But because they voted for the IBTT candidate—whom they knew didn't stand a chance—exactly what they didn't want is what happened!

This is NOT theoretical. It has been exactly the case in recent presidential elections.

Oh! But those who voted for third-party candidates can feel all warm and fuzzy. Because they voted their consciences!

Disconnected their brains, but by God, they voted their consciences.

That should be a great comfort as they are stand there in the unemployment line.

####

Now, is there an alternative to this situation, in which you can vote your conscience and still stand a chance of avoiding getting the very candidate you want the least?

Yes!

Forgive me for a bit of cut-and-paste, but if you haven't heard of this, it's time you did:

Democracies benefit from people expressing themselves freely and openly. I mentioned previously that a successful democracy is one where people vote and their vote has meaning. The fact that Americans don't vote is symptom number 1 that American democracy is struggling.

Symptom number 2 is that often American votes don't seem to be relevant. Whether it is gerrymandering, living in a red/blue state, the Electoral College or living in Washington D.C. (where they have no voting representation in Congress) there are plenty of reasons to feel that your vote doesn't count in America.

Dissatisfaction with the mainstream elements of the two major parties has routinely generated an attempted third party or powerful side voice within one of the major parties. Ross Perot's Reform Party garnered nearly 19% of the popular vote in 1992 but no electoral votes. In the 2000 presidential elections, lost amid the illegal Florida voter roll cleaning and chad-studying theater was the fact that Ralph Nader had received almost 3% of the popular vote, including a significant percent in some state close elections. Voters who supported Perot in 1992 and Nader in 2000 were aware that their candidate had little chance of winning yet they cast their vote to a third party.

If voters could vote for third party candidates and be assured that their votes were not immediately rendered meaningless, would that make for a better democracy? Australians have addressed this idea through preferential voting where voters rank the candidates. All the first place votes are counted. If no candidate wins an absolute majority of first place votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is dropped and the ballots of this eliminated candidate are re-allocated according to its second place votes. This process continues until a candidate has an absolute majority.

In 1992, Bill Clinton received 43% of the popular vote but won the Electoral College in a landslide. Had the Perot votes been reallocated using a preferential system, Clinton would still likely have won handily, but we'll never know for certain. Academicians and political analysts can debate endlessly about the impact that Nadar had in the 2000 election, but we'll never know for certain. With preferential voting, the voices of those Nadar and Perot supporters would have been heard more clearly.

Australia's been using this system of preferential voting for almost 100 years - perhaps its time for the United States to consider the advantages and disadvantages rather than quash votes that don't belong to the two main political parties.

Howard Steven Friedman -- Huffington Post

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:43 PM

...and the far left 'birthers' want to see the act....then claim it never happened, because they got caught!!

wink!

Gfs

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:24 PM

Two comments heard during a discussion on the radio this morning:

"Donald Trump is nothing but a tick on the rump of the Tea Party."

"The 'birthers' are now insisting on seeing the placenta. . . ."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:17 PM

"I believe he is the first man who has put Omama on the defensive. That is always what Obama does to other people.

"Obama is the most divisive political figure in US history. He make no effort to get along with people who disagree with his policies. He puts all of his effort into destroying them."

My God, pdq, what planet are you from!!???

Obama has been on the defensive right from the start with this whole "birther" thing, which is nothing more than a flimsy cover for nothing less than racism. There are vast numbers of people out there who are downright dyspeptic at the very idea of a black man as president. That's what this whole "birther" thing is all about.

And Obama's major problem is that he is TOO conciliatory. He's constantly seeking consensus, compromise, and cooperation with people whose primary purpose is to see that he fails. He's simply not going to get it.

What Obama needs to do is to take a leaf from "Give 'Em Hell Harry" Truman's book and start kicking some butt!

Harry Truman knew the Constitution well and he knew what the powers of the President are. If it was within those powers, rather than dickering, fussing, and bargaining with obstructionists, he simple issued and Executive Order. End of discussion. Case closed!

Don Firth