BS: UK Car Insurance

Subject: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:42 AM

What's going on with car insurance at the moment? A friend of mine just saw her premium go up nearly 100% for no apparent reason and now the same thing has happened to mine. Admittedly I had an accident in November (which wasn't my fault) and I've got 3 points but this is getting silly. What experiences have other people had and has anyone managed to get any results shopping round?

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: melodeonboy
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:52 AM

Hmmm... perhaps this thread should be below the line. Joe?

Anyway, a friend of mine asked me to look up car insurance for her on the internet. The cheapest quote she could get was about 35% higher than what she paid last September. I calculate that at a nigh on 70% a year increase!

What is going on?

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:56 AM

Mine went up by over £200 in Feb, with direct Line, who I've bee with for 15 years. shopped around and got an identical level of cover with Endsleigh for the same as my last year's DL premium.

When I told DL I wasn't renewing and had accepted Endsleigh's quote they said "oh, you should have let us know bwfore committing...we'd have been able to match Endsleigh's offer".

To which I replied: "I've been with you for 15 years. If you weren't able to give me your best offer as a long-standing loyal customer but *are* able to better your quote just because I found a cheaper policy with a reputable provider then I think changing provider is the right decision".

There were even cheaper possibilities available but they were with companies I'd never heard of.

The reason for the increase is a combination of spurious claims (whiplash, eg...I know a bloke who's had £20,000 worth of "whiplash" payouts for 4 separate shunts in the last 3 years), lots of uninsured drivers and the practice of using "accident management" firms who are basically car hire companies who provide replacement cars under insurance cover for people while theirs are being repaired. The repairs are often (a) much more expensive than they would have been via the insured getting competitive qotes directly and (b) dragged out so that the period that the replacement car is on hire is extended.

It's all a big scam and something that should be ripe for legislation to curb the abuses...I'd rather see this tackled than worry about changing the voting system, personally!

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:02 AM

Just renewed the insurance on both my cars. Renewal premiums went up by around 35% so I just went on a comparison site and got them back to around what I had been paying. So the answer is to shop around.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:17 AM

I use the comparison sites every year - I've often been offered a lower price for the same insurance, from my existing provider, than they will offer me directly as a "loyal customer". The newspapers have reported that average premiums are up 40% this year, so you should expect some kind of hike... but definitely don't accept your standard renewal quote or you will be ripped off.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:17 AM

As Rob said , its mostly down to a scam between Car Hirers repairers and Management companies and otr delightful government doing Damn All to stop the drivers of cars being ripped off .

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: John J
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:24 AM

Oh Leadfingers, how can you say such a thing about that nice caring government of ours?

Only last week I heard that nice Mr Cameron on the radio-type wireless saying that he had postponed the 1p / litre rise in fuel duty until next year - to show that he cares about us.

Hmm.

JJ

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:31 AM

Insurance companies are crooks, basically. Always have been, always will be. They pretty much are allowed to behave however they want. Don't stay with them if they're ripping you off...

Buy a bike :0)

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 06:06 AM

Insurance premiums are based on risk, and if you are considered to be bad then you will be charged a much higher premium. Shareholders require dividends and pension plan holders require pension fund growth which pushes up premiums even further.

Please explain what any government has to do with it.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 06:47 AM

Just rang up one of my current insurers to cancel the policy and, surprise, surprise, they reduced their price to match the comparison site one. Nothing to do with risk (which hasn't changed), it's based on the inertia principle - they rely on most people being too lazy to shop around or haggle.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 07:06 AM

Bonzo3legs: in theory, yes, it's based on risk. But in practice, in the last few years insurance companies have found it:

(a) easier not to contest claims for things like whiplash, which are often paid out without the insured party even knowing about it. Some years ago I was involved in an accident where the claim eventually settled was for about £8,000, including whiplash, almost £2,000 for a replacement hire car and over £1,500 for repair to what was actually a very minor bump. The friend whose car I was in was livid that his insurers had settled for that amount, andI was in full agreement. But it was too late to contest it as the settlement had been made without reference to the insured.

(b) Insurers now routinely pass on the handling of claims to "Accident Management" companies. These organisations are often nothing more than fronts for expensive replacemrnt car hire and for passing on repair work to selected repairers who charge inflated rates. there is no incentive on the insurance companies to police this as they're just able to pass on the rip-off profits taken to their customers in increased premiums. In fact, there's some evidence that some insurers collude in these over-charging "deals" which are little better than scams, diverting huge slices off the tops of premiums into the owners of these Accident Management companies' pockets.

This is where "government" can come into it. The industry has signally failed to police itself, and appears to be actively encouraging this much more expensive way of dealing with claims, to the detriment of the general public. And if an industry is unable to police itself, this is whwere the government can step in and enforce some kind of standards. The government's been aware of this problem for several years, as the costs of accidents have escalated out of all proportion to the actual number of accidents and the costs of parts, which, in relative terms have been decreasing. but it's chosen not to act.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 07:12 AM

Leveller: Yes, as i said above, my original insurer had also offered to reduce the premium when I quoted the alternative one.

Even so, over the last 5-6 years premiums have gone up out of all proportion to risk levels, due to the practices I mentioned above. "Shopping around" will save money, for sure, but complacency over how the industry is currently behaving will still mean that premiums are artificially higher than they should be if properly based on true risk, sensible repair/ off road costs and a fair return to the insurer.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 08:36 AM

A while ago, I started a thread on an insurance matter for a friend of mine, and got much useful help, including from the inimitable knowledgeable JiK.

I was actually a witness in the car, there was no actual damage to the black car. A policeman looked up her mobile, and rang her and passed on the phone to a very nasty guy. Later on (MANY months later!) she received a letter demanding payment for repairs - they included a photo. It was amusing, as I said in my letter to the insurance company, that there was this massive white scar on the black car, as her car was RED! (As I remember the damage was also on the other side of the car!) I also pointed out that I was in the car at the time, and the reason she left no note, was that there WAS NO visible damage, as the cars had barely touched, I didn't even feel it! I further pointed out that I once had a lady friend in the insurance industry who said that lots of people try to 'stack' a second lot of damage where they were solely responsible on to a previous claim against someone else, or otherwise try to forge claim details. Further, I pointed out that the photo that they sent electronically had no details in the internal data fields of what date, what camera had taken it etc - something that happens when the file is edited in a graphics manipulation program and all that data gets stripped out by someone not as clever as they think they are!

We never heard from them again! It indeed was lucky that she was not insured for other damage at all, as elsewise the companies would have done the 'knock for knock' trick and her company would have just paid it without even telling her.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:51 PM

Never ever insure with Aviva.

They are currently trying to write off one of my Volvos - asserting repair costs of £2,000 when I have 6 quotes - two of £50 each and the highest of £450 inc VAT. But the £2,000 is at their "assessment centre". In my view this is an obvious fraud to persuade me to waive a claim for my repair costs.

To exert greater pressure they have put a "VIC MARKER" on my car which means I cannot tax it without taking it for a VIN test - which would result in the car being recorded as a write off.

Having heard nothing from the other driver they wrote, they say, to him (without reference to me) to hold him 100% responsible. Naturally he wrote back asserting, they say, I was 100% to blame. What a stupid thing for them to have done - calculated to provoke a claim.

They refuse to provide copies of their letters to the other party (or his insurers) or his (or theirs) to them - pretending that the Data Protection Act prevents them from copying me when the truth of the position is that they could only write or receive such things as my agents.

I have complaints lodged with the Insurance Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner, but I think I will have to fling a writ to get anywhere.

Contract of the utmost faith? Don't make me laugh.

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: melodeonboy
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:19 PM

Yes, someone reversed into me about a year ago and caused damage to my front bumper. I made an insurance claim and the car ended up at a workshop (like the "assessment centre" mentioned above) where they said it'd cost £800 to £900 to repair it and that it might well be written off. As the car was worth more to me than they would have given me for it I withdrew the claim, went to a local garage where they repaired it for £80, which I paid out of my own pocket. I considered this to be a better deal than to continue with the claim.

I don't understand the insurance system sufficiently to know exactly what's going on, but it all looks fishy to me!

Subject: RE: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 07:32 PM

They're all a bunch of bastards, in massive offices and in cheap call overseas call-centres.
Do the Maths - there are how million cars on the road in the UK , multiply THAT by (say) £500 and then think how many / percentage experience serious accidents - the figures just don't add up and another bunch of arrogant pricks over-paying themselves as per decrepid as UK Bankers.
I would ask the government to wake up but as most of the Insurance Companies support the Conservative party -it's a complete waste of time.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 07:44 AM

Their current trick on renewing, is to up your annual mileage by about 200% and raise their premium to cover this. I got a significant reduction on mine by pointing this out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:14 PM

It certainly pays to shop around on web comparison sites, but also to then seal the deal by telephone. I did this recently, having been quoted much more than last year by my Insurers (for no apparent reason) I found a better deal with another company on a comparison site, then phoned them to see if they could pare it down a bit more. They (amazingly!) offered to reduce the excess without raising the premium! I then contacted my original insurers, who feebly offered a tiny reduction. I was really rather smug in asking them NOT to renew at the end of the contract.
Another unfair tactic of insurers is to charge a fee (in my case £25) for any changes to the policy details. When we moved house, they cheekily wanted to charge for the contact telephone number and the new address SEPARATELY, meaning a nice little windfall for them of £50.
I also (moan moan) find they get quite impatient if you want to go through their policy point by point to ascertain exactly what is or isn't covered. I would have thought this was absolutely essential, but they act as if you're bonkers wanting to know.
They're a bunch of bloodsuckers the lot of them!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 06 May 11 - 07:11 AM

Just renewed with SAGA. Saved over £700. Woo Hoo!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 May 11 - 09:20 AM

"Just renewed with SAGA. Saved over £700. Woo Hoo!"

Until you have a claim!!

They increased my premium on a 98 Honda Civic to £900, until we told them we were moving to another insurer!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 May 11 - 04:16 PM

My renewal notice arrived today, and it's quoting 150% of last year's charge for a car that's a year older, so I will be asking why...

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 07 May 11 - 10:05 AM

A bunch of rip off merchants who use statistics to prove anything they want. My latest quote was £500+ (fair old driver, mad old car). 'Come come' says I 'the premium will be more than the car's worth soon'. We'll look into it; they did and it was reduced by £200. Damn near half - so challenge them! I had told them truthfully that the third emergency service otherwise known as the AA had quoted me £300.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 11 - 11:46 AM

Yes, Doc John, but should it be necessary to challenge them? As a customer of fairly long-standing, I get angry that they 'try it on' hoping I'll just accept the renewal proposal. Why not send me their final offer in the first place? I hate playing games like that!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Musket
Date: 07 May 11 - 12:42 PM

I'm in the middle of changing my car, so only the other day was shopping around.

My resent insurers (Swift) came up best but before offering them my business, I rang Direct Line, as they say they don't appear on price comparison sites. No ruddy wonder... She offered me, on a like for like basis, over twice the premium of any in the top ten on Confused.com.

I am paying less than £300.00 on a brand new 4x4. By comparison, my present car, (four year old Jag) was over £500.00. Be blessed if I can see why. They have similar power and if anything, the Jag with better handling can in theory get out of awkward situations easier.

I can just echo what others have said, shop around. Although web only sites like Swift don't give you the opportunity to haggle, they have less overheads and genuinely seem to pass some of those savings on.

Now..... If you claim, of course you may find that one who charges more may be quicker and easier to sort your problem out, but considering insurance underwriters are glorified bookmakers, it's up to you to gamble I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 07 May 11 - 02:51 PM

Eliza, I agree with you it shouldn't be necessary to challenge them. But we aren't dealing with ethical 'professionals' here but a bunch of crooks in suits, like bankers. Banks have just been found to have been misselling insurance but they won't be charged with fraud or false pretences; rather they'll just hand over the compensation. In the case of Lloyds/TSP it's our money so why should they care; the bosses will still get their fat bonuses. I'd be struck off if I behaved like that. Come back Clem and nationalise the bloody lot!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 11 - 02:59 PM

I love that expression, Doc John, 'a bunch of crooks in suits'!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 May 11 - 03:50 AM

It is not just the selling, but also the improper treatment of claims in which the barrow-boys in insurance reveal their true colours.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 11 - 12:27 PM

I'm a bit puzzled by Richard's post.

A few years back I had a car vandalised in a car park, and the insurance company decided the cost of full repairs would be more than the car was worth, so they paid me a write-off price, which I was able to use to repair the vehicle, which I then took for an MOT, and used for several more years, continuing to insure with the same company.

So why can't Richard do something like that if the insurers are willing to write his car off and pay more than he can get it repaired for?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 11 - 01:31 PM

My lad was on my insurance while he learned to drive - All above board and legal. I then incorporated him into my business, making him a shareholder and director so he could receive premiums. When I went to renew they asked is anything had changed.

"Oh, yes - My son is now a company director rather than unemployed."

"Ok, we will put up your premium by £200"

"Errrrr, how come?"

"Well, a company director is a much higher risk..."

"But, he doesn't do anything different."

"Rules are rules..."

Needless to say I said I wasn't renewing. They waived the £200 as an 'act of good faith'. Hmmmm.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Car Insurance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 May 11 - 03:05 PM

McGrath - my car is not a write off.

I do not want it recorded as a write-off. Should I ever wish to sell it it would depreciate the price.

Many insurers will not insure a recorded write off.

It is a swindle.

Oh, by the way, Aviva want a 20% cut of the cash settlement as a cash settlement fee, AND they put the open market value at £500. Ever tried to get one of the late model B230ETs with the 531 head and A cam?

All they need to do is hand one of my perfectly reputable insurers 3 of 4 hundred quid and record my claim.

Why won't they show me the correspondence between them and the other party's insurers? - because they know it will show them stitching me up or cocking it up.