The Unthanks on Jools Holland

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:05 PM

I think I'd go along with that, Lively. A fair summary.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 01 May 11 - 03:03 PM

"I find the stage act no better or worse than a thousand other young acts coming up. The only reason, IMO, they stand out is because of their aggressive PR machine."

While I've heard some exceedingly well executed performances on a grass-roots level, the Unthanks DO have a distinctive vocal style and musical personality. They are probably like Marmite as to whether you love or hate their work, but it is undeniably of their own making.

On the other hand, I've heard better technically executed performances on a grass-roots level than some of their outings on TV. Maybe the pressure of big lights gets to them and they are more polished in a more intimate setting?

Either way, they certainly have their own unique vocal style with attractive harmonies and a charmingly media-friendly fey charisma - and questions of talent aside - arguably that is possibly what sets them out from the 'thousand other acts'.

The commercial music industry after all, is not a meritocracy. And nor is merit entirely predicated upon technical proficiency.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 01 May 11 - 01:33 PM

I found this to be a rather better outing for this pair than when I've heard them on television previously. Timings and pitching sounded pretty well rehearsed, they worked nicely together vocally, and the string backing suits their overall style in my opinion. A pleasing bit of melodic pop to my ears.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 01 May 11 - 09:12 AM

Not a big fan of the Unthanks' work generally but I enjoyed their offering on Later

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:48 AM

Hi Jim...Yes indeed, For the young and handsome, the world is their lobster! For us old wrinklies...Different story!
Talking of running off with the cash though. I did a gig once in Donegal, with an elderly Irish gent who used to live in Kilburn...(I'll let you work out who, to save his blushes!)....Finished about 0100...packed up car, waited 30 mins for said gent to appear...On asking why the delay, he said, "He wasn't being very reasonable with the keys to the safe...I pointed out that I had a few friends I might just phone in the morning!" He found the keys pretty quickly after that!
Regards to the family Ralphie

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,guest - jim younger
Date: 01 May 11 - 07:45 AM

Ralphie - I've had the impression for a good while that the folk industry is providing good earning opportunities for artists. Bigger venues, bigger audiences, more media exposure, international tours and all. Maybe I'm wrong - but it all seems a long way from the days (1972) when I got paid in fruit machine tokens by an "organiser" who had forgotten to tell anyone that he was about to open a new folk club - apart from me and my poor co-folkers who turned up to play the opening night. Or was robbed blind by the manager of the Felixstowe Pavilion who did a runner, or was robbed blind by ... well, that's enough stories of robbing the poor to feed the rich. These days 'folk' seems to be a sensible career choice for a young musician - otherwise, why has the Newcastle course been so successful? No shortage of supplicants to the trade, it seems to me.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 May 11 - 07:26 AM

Shimrod....understood....still waiting for the dosh though!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 01 May 11 - 07:11 AM

Good outfit but personally I found them a bit glum and slow, lovely ladies mind you

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:01 AM

Ralphie, you will notice that that particular phrase is in quotes. I extracted it from an earlier post from Steve Gardham (28 Apr - 02:55 PM).

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 May 11 - 05:12 AM

"putting out the hype, and taking the money????"
Looking forward to the second part of that statement. Not holding my breath though.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 May 11 - 05:02 AM

" ... if those opinions are only meant to be positive ones, we end up with the sort of sychophantic stuff that we get in CD reviews in most of the folk media."

" ... but as soon as you start putting out the hype and taking the money, you have to expect all sorts of critique. This is life, and this is how it should be."

I agree absolutely with both of those statements, Steve. As someone with a long-term interest in folk song I don't see myself as an infantile, sycophantic 'fan'. If I'm asked to give my opinion on a particular artist I'll tell you if I like their work or don't like their work and I'll try to give you reasons why I like their work or don't like their work.

I can assure you that these criticisms will always be on artistic/aesthetic grounds. I believe that as a member of the artist's audience I am fully entitled to express such views (in an appropriate context, of course).

Some people, in this forum, seem to be unable to distinguish between valid criticism and 'catty' personal remarks and expressions of jealousy. I think that it's completely unacceptable to 'begrudge' an artist's 'success' - even if you don't particularly like their work. I think that people who can't make such a distinction need to grow up!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Alan Day
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:10 AM

Thanks Lizzie, nicest comment ever !
AL X

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 10:16 PM

sorry, too bloated from bank holiday drinking to forget royal wedding bollox
to muster enough energy to read previous posts..

I would have really enjoyed the Unthanks on Jools irritating twat Holland show..

but that drummer really got it all so badly wrong ???

that first song was completely ruined by unsympathetic wrongly tempo'd over intrusive drumming...

not heard anything so potentially good so badly spoilt by a misguided drummer
since an early 70's Mr Fox LP.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM

Sorry JJ, but quickly flicking back through the thread I can see a lot of humour, but the nearest thing to 'nastiness' I can pick out is 'the little girls on helium' and that in my book constitutes satire.

But look, if you don't try to sound at least a little different from everybody that's gone before, you get accused of being a copycat. Really it's the distinctive voices/styles that tend to last (not all)
Dick Gaughan, Peter Bellamy, Rory McLeod, Norma Waterson, Martin Carthy, Shirley Collins, Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash etc., etc. You can hardly blame the wannabes for having a go.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,alan Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:38 PM

And it has to be pointed out that the artist does not always choose where they play. perhaps that 'aggressive PR machine' had to work very hard to get them a slot on the Holland show and the girls had to do it.

When its not something you do in your spare time, you do lose an element of control, unless you're a big star and can lay the law down about what you will do and won't.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Johnny J
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:35 PM

The problem seems to have arison from the fact that I started a thread with a one word comment.
It's probably quite fair to criticise me on that basis but I have since clarified a few points and surely my original post doesn't excuse most of the real nastiness and negativity which has now developed here and in the other thread?

There have also been accusations and suggestions, albeit implicitly made that I and others who may be less than enamoured with a particular act may have another agenda or an "axe to grind". As far as I'm concerned, that's not the case and pure supposition on the part of some people here.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

Do correct me if I'm wrong, but as a relative newcomer to Mudcat, I got the distinct impression that it exists for the dissemination of knowledge and for its members to express opinions. Now, if those opinions are only meant to be positive ones, we end up with the sort of sychophantic stuff that we get in CD reviews in most of the folk media. At grass-roots level we put up with a hell of a lot especially when we know the performers aren't being paid or aren't being hyped up by some publicity machine, but as soon as you start putting out the hype and taking the money, you have to expect all sorts of critique. This is life, and this is how it should be. If we didn't criticise our politicians for instance we'd be in an even bigger mess than we are now.

By saying we shouldn't give negative comment you are taking on the role of judge and jury.

As for the subjects of this thread, my own opinion is that they've done some good stuff. That great song their dad wrote comes over well, and I liked their televised dance programmes, BUT, I find the stage act no better or worse than a thousand other young acts coming up. The only reason, IMO, they stand out is because of their aggressive PR machine.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 02:27 PM

"Is that really what you wanted to say?"

It's an expression, Les, ain't it...for er...depressing. You can't shimmy to Death Music can you. ;0)   

Oh, Alan, I wrote 3/4 of a story the other day, when I heard you and Will playing your tune about the snowflakes falling! I was away with the faeries, with Marienne, over in Paris...and my fingers were dancing on the keyboard as I listened over and over and over....

I didn't put it on here 'cos I felt a bit silly..and besides, I never got to finishing it...but it moved me, really moved me..

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: BobKnight
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:16 PM

No worries Les - I have a good sense of humour. :)

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:43 PM

The trouble is that many people assume that minor key songs are automatically sad and it ain't necessarily so.

Searching for Lambs, Brigg Fair and Lovely Joan are all in minor modes but none of them are exactly sad. Plaintive, possibly; lyrical, definitely, but sad no.

I get the same accusation from my wife and daughter - especially my daughter.

Maybe it's the way I tell 'em!

I've not yet listened to the Unthanks on Later; been busy, but must try & catch them before the iPlayer option expires.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Alan Day
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:10 PM

Must remember not to play a slow ,minor key number if ever you are in the audience Lizzie. Don't want to lose you yet.
Al X

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:54 AM

"I mean...it's kinda music to slit your wrists to isn't it."

Is that really what you wanted to say?
L in C#

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:14 AM

I think they'd be a bit chirpier singing 'Livin' La Vida Loca' myself. ;0)

I mean...it's kinda music to slit your wrists to isn't it. But, some folks love that I guess...

OK, Ricky's callin'....I have to go shimmy!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:45 AM

Sorry Bob, my personally aimed abuse was just a blast at people who bring so much joy to this place with there pearls

L in C
Stil a Weasle voiced neo-tenor song strangler and tenor banjo abuser

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: BobKnight
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:36 AM

The "little girls on helium" quote wasn't applied to the Unthanks. So, I'm a "low-life" - nicest thing anyone has said to me for ages, thank you.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:49 AM

Methinks the problem is Jools Holland, there was a time that he would have unusual guests and then go straight on to another band or singer with an equally individual or unusual style and throw in some of his expertise on the piano. I have been disappointed with his shows these last few years including the last few years of New Year offerings. I did intend to watch the Unthanks but couldn't get my self motivated enough to press the button on the remote.

Perhaps what is needed is a brand new show.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:22 AM

Look, you either enjoy or you don't that's it!

"little girl on helium" is just a low-life put down.

I invite people- no, I doubt really, to generate equally pointless putdowns concerning others who sing or play!

L in C#
Weasle voiced neo-tenor song strangler and tenor banjo abuser

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: BobKnight
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:24 AM

Pigstring - the girls voices are a lot more powerful than you would imagine. They were easily heard, without microphones, in a a large crowded room at the Festival CLub in Stonehaven. They just have a very unusual husky quality to their voices.

I would agree with you on many of the "little girl on helium" type voices that are going around, but this doesn't apply to the Unthanks.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:22 AM

Watching the Unthanks on Later still didn't make me enjoy what they do or want to buy their albums.

However, watching Vintage Trouble on the previous week's edition of Later made me sit up and want to know more about that band. I'm grateful for the chance to see something brilliant I hadn't seen before and I guess Later did the same job for those people who enjoyed the Unthanks for the first time.

The point is, regular folk fans will have heard countless people singing and playing better than the Unthanks, just as regular blues/soul fans will have heard better bands than Vintage Trouble.
But at least we're all listening.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:24 AM

Folk music becomes popular when it speaks to the people of the upcoming generation. It did in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It kind of did in the 80s and 90s. The Unthanks look like young people do today, or at least a lot of young people do, and for that reason they open doors to the tradition. Youngsters relate to them.

My personal feeling is the arrangements detract from the stark beauty of their singing, but I doubt the music is aimed at me. If they make a few bob along the way good luck to them.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Pigstrings
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:35 PM

Each to their own. Can't say the current trend for winsome female singers breathing into a microphone does much for me, but I'm from the school of robust folk; which I'm sure makes some who like the stuff I don't like cringe. Folk music is a broad church. It carries on its own sweet way and every so often someone else discovers it and we're fleetingly popular again. Does anyone really care?

Jools at least gives an airing to different types of music - I've seen Bellowhead, Martin Carthy and the Imagined Village on his show among others.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:24 PM

I hate that show. I can see everyone's talented, but it really is the worst. Five minutes of this. five minutes of that. It reminds of those awful religious programmes for teenagers that used to be on when I was a kid, Okay thankyou Bishop of Woolwich!.... and now here's Craig Douglas with his latest hit song.

i even dislike musicians that I like on that on that show. its rubbish. Songs of praise is better than jules Holland.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:58 PM

I am sorry to disagree , but I enjoyed the performance, the song and the backing. I have listened to it three times now and it gets better with each listen. I admit it is a serious song, but what is wrong with that.
They did not let the side down. Far from it.
I am glad the originator of the "Grim" remark has apologised.
A matter of choice.
Al

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:35 PM

I liked their performance of the song. The song is grim and creepy and they delivered it beautifully. Made me shiver. Isn't that what a performer is supposed to do? Make you feel the story?

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: BobKnight
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:07 AM

I liked it - and I like the Unthanks - they're lovely, down to earth lassies. I met them at Stonehaven Folk Festival a couple of years ago, where they came along to the festival club after their concert and did a few songs, without mics, and sounded great. So there!!!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:55 AM

Well I enjoyed them. But then as a marooned Geordie here in Ireland I love to here the old accent, But I thought the harmonies were excellent and yes Rachel is 8 monthd pregnant and I would like to wish her and her husband all the best for the happy event, and for their future.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Folknacious
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:42 AM

I don't know about the original item referred to. I didn't see it so have no opinion, unlike lots of other people who didn't see it either. This thread is certainly grim though. Haven't you all got a royal wedding to hate?

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:26 AM

Re the above comment from Guest...

I would disagree with that and it's certainly not what I meant.

Some of those who have criticised me starting this thread do have a fair point and, on reflection, I should have elaborated a little more in the first post.

Much has been said about them being lovely people and I'm very sure this is the case. They certainly come over this way when they are being interviewed...e.g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jCx8lm_eOk

Although their music in general isn't exactly my cup of tea, I was specifically referring to this particular performance on the Jools Holland show last night. It was certainly never my intention to make things personal and, if this is the impression I've given, I apologise.

Actually, TV never seems to do folk and trad music much justive and there have been many "grim" performances on the box even by many of my favourite artists.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:23 AM

Come on Mr / Ms Guest, less of the long winded semi intellectual analysis of arrangements, choice of song and instrumentation - use the whole of your experience and knowledge - surely they are worth it?

L in C#

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Stu
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM

I really liked it.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:50 AM

Isla White-Ferry indeed!

Bad boy! Dirty Boy! In your bed!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:42 AM

To answer one of Treewinds points.

I have seen the Unthanks Live and throughly enjoyed their performance. They were very proffessional and delivered their material confidentally and with style.

There were about 150 people there in a school hall and I would say most were not folkies. However, allthe people I spoke to, said they thoroully enjoyed it.

I hate people who try to slag artists off on forums like this. It shows how how slimy and weak livered they are. If you don't like them, get in touch with them and tell them. Don't start threads like this.

It smacks of jealosy, grumpiness, unwilingness to accept artist's they do not like and inability to accept performers getting on.

Some people have already said that they do not necessarily like them, which is fine. That's how it should be. You can't like everybody. But but why try to slag them off in public.

When people start posting here deliberately and saying a band or performer is grim, then that is not acceptable. I know many people who totally disagree.

Leave em alone. They are doing a very good job.

I'll get me coat herrumph.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Chris Partington
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 07:16 AM

From Sean:"The Unthanks are an autonomous creative musical unit who represent only themselves, whatever traditions, roots, influences and inspirations they choose to draw upon. More power to them."
I agree totally.
I don't go for that whispy sub-classical feel myself, but many people do and I thought their performance, and the arrangement, was perfectly credible/creditable. Otherwise, it's none of my business.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:26 AM

I cannot do better than quote Sean:

"Once again we're in the realm of Folk Religion & Missionary Zeal, to the extent people feel Folk needs to be represented. What utter nonsense. Like any other Band (Folk or otherwise) The Unthanks are an autonomous creative musical unit who represent only themselves, whatever traditions, roots, influences and inspirations they choose to draw upon. More power to them. "

Grim? What the f*ck does that mean. Look, it's very very simple. You lositen and either you like stuff or you dont. That's it really. I like 'em and I don't oblige anyone else to.

L in C#

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:23 AM

I will not foist my opinion on said act here. It wouldn't help. But, I would agree with Anahata, that any appearance by related artists on TV/Radio is generally a good thing. Just look at the many hours of documentaries on BBC4. Yes, some artists didn't tick some of my boxes..(No names) but, others might have felt differently. and, if a casual channel surfer came across them by accident, well that can only be a good thing. In the past few years the amount of Folk and related musics broadcast across all medi platforms has been booming. To complain about one act, on one programme is basically a bit daft!

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:23 AM

I should apologise for the negativity in starting this thread as I was having a grumpy moment.

Just to be clear, I was referring to the actual performance. They are not the worst singers in the world and do have a certain charm but it always seems just a bit "off key" to me. Their choice of material usually tends to be rather gloomy too. I also agree that there were too many strings.

Basically, as Treewind suggests,
"The issue is that folk music doesn't get much of an airing on national TV here, so it's sad when what little does get shown isn't (at least in someone's opinion[In this case, mine]) very good or representative".

However, I daresay it's always been the case that those acts with "wider appeal" tended to be featured on the media. It's just that I liked them better back then.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:13 AM

Will, what about if Isla St. Clair had married Barry White, divorced him then married Brian Ferry? Isla White-Ferry?

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: scouse
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:57 AM

Oh Dear, just watched it... I wouldn't call it "Grim." Political correctness forbids me to say what I think..

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:53 AM

Steve - the old ones are the best ones, so they say - like: what sort of music would come out if Dire Straits were joined by Chris Rea... etc., etc.

Subject: RE: The Unthanks on Jools Holland
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:52 AM

Just watched it, a bit of a wet song but not performed too badly. Far too many strings in the production.
I fail to see what people have against The Unthanks, they seem like perfectly nice young women. Is Rachel pregnant? (I'm reminded of the female comedian who said you should only ask that question if you can see the baby's head).

They always look like they'd be happier in a club than dressed up for the telly.