BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: olddude
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:41 PM

It is what it is, done and over with. Any country US included had the right and indeed already had an agreement in place. Does it change anything no .. do I care .. not really he was a monster, however, I will not celebrate any death .. revenge is not my way ... but I no longer care about it .. He was responsible for terrible acts throughout the world ... It will change nothing now that he is gone .. justice, probably was done. However, what difference does it all make. We are still involved in two wars and a partial third ... we don't learn and neither does the rest of the world ... until people stop killing each other over nonsense both will keep burying each other

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:21 PM

I read that the Pakistan foreign minister issued a staement saying Pakistan welcomed the action. It was on NHK Japan this AM. Can't find it now.

In any case, WTF is the problem? Pakistan couldn't find the fucker living next to a top military installation and the USA did and took the fucker out. Job done. And Pakistan didn't even have to pay for the bullets. The cheap fuckers should send a cheque to Obama for supplying the bullets on accounta they didn't spend any of Obama's money looking for the piece of shit in the first place.

Death to America? No. Not fuckin likely. Ten years or a thousand ain't gonna butter the biscuit. The USA is here to stay. I don't agree with what they do a lot of the time but only a stunned as me arse idiot fucks with them. Pakistan pissing them off is idiotic and doesn't help lead to peace in any form.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 03:40 PM

"Jim, are you being naive or disingenuous?"
You said that nobody complained except yatta-yatta - you got it wrong - Pakistan complained, just as Britain would have complained had they gone storming up Wandsworth High Street and mown down a couple of people in The Spead Eagle.
You have no right to claim immunity on their behalf - they have committed an act of aggression against a friendly nation - who the **** are you to say how offended they are?
America does not respect national boundaries when it suits them not to do so.
They routinely use torture and arrest without trial; for the former they ship illegally detained 'suspects' to countries that are not too fussy about that sort of thing; (they are flown though our local airport regularly); for the latter, they have constructed concentration camps where similar illegally detained 'suspects' are held in inhuman conditions (60 odd of them at the last count) for indefinite periods with no access to friends, family or legal assistance.
The US is a terrorist state using every terrorist method they believe themselves able to get away with.
As far as I am concerned, the only things distinguishing them from other terrorist states is their wealth, influence and their nuclear capability.
It is this gung-ho behaviour which has endangered the world and put a hugh question mark over all our futures - every bomb that went off in London following the phony search for WMDs is down to Pres. Dubya and his poodle Blair.
I have to say, it comes as no surprise to me whatever that you have taken the Quisling line of apologising for their behaviour - runs in the blood apparently.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:53 PM

the Guardian link has less detail and substantiated knowledge than my informal remarks.


Fact: Osama bin Laden inherited 80 million at age ten.
Money continued to define his identity and importence until he became more serious in has late twenties when being a person of faith gave him new advantages.

His father was a multi billionaire building contrator for many of the largest projects is SA.

Split 20 billion dollars 50 ways and it is still a good piece of cash.

GHW Bush was partners with Osamma's brother in the part ownership of Carlyle Group Inc.

Members of the bin Laden family had one of the few flights out of Dulles on 9-12-2001.

I am unaware of any of Ossama's assets being siezed by anyone including his family.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:49 PM

Oh Tacky...

(you don't mind if I call you that do you?)


Try some academic reading on the subject.

http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=373

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:44 PM

Ten Myths about Osama Bin Laden see : 2. the money

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:59 AM

He was a rich kid since the age of 10 when he got his first 80 million dollars. He was the money man.

Kinda like the Koch Brothers, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:43 AM

I have little hope of sanity prevailing when the Whitehouse is run by lunatics.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:38 AM

He was a rich kid since the age of 10 when he got his first 80 million dollars. He was the money man. He did the photo ops.
Any actual fighting he may have done was brief and all for show.
His money gave him virtual Royal status.

The people who are focused only upon mass murder of the infidel did the real planning. They may have nuclear capabilities at this time and pose a real and present danger.
Bin Laden was about the financial destruction of America. His buddies are even crazier and may opt for nuclear options despite the futility and the diminished need for their cause among many Arab nations in revolution against dictator regiemes.

I hope sanity prevails.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:33 AM

Jim, are you being naive or disingenuous?
"Deep concern" is just about as mild a rebuke as you can get!
Imagine the outrage and breaking of relations had US pulled such a stunt in any other country on earth!
Even the closest of allies such as Britain or Israel.

Al Qaeda and the Pakistan government are sworn enemies.
Thousands of Pakistanis have been killed and they are greatful for anything US does against them.
It is just that their security and intelligence services are heavily infiltrated, and America is not popular.

They express concern over the predator strikes too, but never demand that they stop.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:21 AM

Bollocks

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:19 AM

Bin Laden was not a king or a head of state.

He was a criminal considered armed and dangerous.

Unless he was stark naked when shot, the SEALs had every reason to suspect he could be wearing a suicide belt. Inside a fortified enemy compound with only one way out, faced with the most wanted fugitive on earth and an unknown number of his bodyguards, the only way to prevent shooting would have been for everybody but the SEALs to throw up their hands in surrender. Everybody.

Under the actual circumstances, it would have taken superhuman and possibly suicidal restraint not to shoot him. The fact that so few shots were fired, and that the U.S. government frankly admits Bin Laden wasn't holding a weapon (and is now debating whether the release of photos would be offensive) shows how America actually tries to operate.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:37 AM

I know it means the king is dead, that was not my point.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:34 AM

My earlier remarks here regarding the bin Laden strategy to help bankrupt America as he did with the former Soviet Union, was beautifully expanded by Rachel Maddow last night.

The book "the three trillion dollar war" was metioned along with the writings of money man bin Laden that focused entirely on how much money his efforts were costing America.

Our off budget spending on the wars is much higher than the official totals of 1.4 trillion dollars. It is true that the focus of bin Laden was always money. His book the 10 trickey verses in the Koran was merely a means to an end which was the financial defeat of America.

By the way the picture we are not supposed to see clearly show 2 holes an inch or more above his left eye (not in the eye itself) and the right rear side of his head blown out. His eyes are nearly closed but crossed. There are many more gory pictures that came out of the Bosnia Muslim massacres.
I did not see the alledged chest wound.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:27 AM

"the king is dead" - is right Silas - from the Persian.
However, I doubt very much if seeing off Bin Laden, however welcome that may be, has brought about the end of this particular holy war - just another erratic prod into the hornet's net.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:17 AM

"The very phrase 'check mate' means 'the king is dead,' signifying the successful end of the battle."

Not quite sure where this little piece of disinformation came from, but killing the King rarely meant the successful end of a battle.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:04 AM

Agree 100% Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:59 AM

"No one is objecting except Hamas and the Mudcat left-libs. "
"ISLAMABAD (AP) — Pakistan says it is deeply concerned over what it said was an "unauthorized" American raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
The government statement says the raid should not serve as a precedent for future U.S. actions there and called the raid an "unauthorized unilateral action."
If the world is to have a self-appointed military pliceman it should not be a state that uses torture, imprisonment without trial, clandestine international terrorism, chemical warfare and the targeting of civilians (for which they have re-invented the English language - collateral damage).
America is a terrorist state, openly using terrorist tactics in its own political and economic interests and is every bit a danger to world eace as any other terrorist state.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Taconicus
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:55 AM

Even if there had been a properly declared war, international law provides that one may not assassinate the leader of one's enemy. - Richard. Bridge

There is no such international law. You're speaking off the top of your head with obviously no knowledge of what you're talking about.

"Osama Bin Laden ... was an appropriate military target. As the titular and spiritual head of al-Qaida, he was the functional equivalent of a head of state or commander in chief of a terrorist army. From the beginning of recorded history, killing the king was the legitimate object of military action. The very phrase 'check mate' means 'the king is dead,' signifying the successful end of the battle." - Alan Dershowitz, Constitutional law scholar, renowned criminal and civil liberties attorney

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2093/targeted-killing-vindicated

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:18 AM

Charley, Pentagon policy is that the names of special operations people are never divulged.

It doesn't matter whether they release the photos or not. Fakes are already circulating on the Net, and anybody that eager to kill will take his or her cue from one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:10 AM

I do hope that the Obama Administration resists the call by some to release photos of the deceased Bin Laden, with the exception of the funeral service. Such a release would serve no other purpose than to further inflame his supporters around the world to take some kind of action, and recruit more to their cause. That should be an easy call but for some reason some Republicans want to see the proof; maybe they can have a private viewing of the photos after confiscating their cell-phones.

Such photos might be released after 50 years or so, after passions simmer down.

I also hope that the members of the Navy Seal Team are never identified for their personal safety. Seals should be protected.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 May 11 - 08:48 AM

I'm a lib. Don't link me with the views in question.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:46 AM

"Er - not only that Keith. The US in this case were not acting on enemy held territory"

No, the terrirory of an ally who have no objections, and who have themselves lost thousands to Al Qaeda.

No one is objecting except Hamas and the Mudcat left-libs.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:24 AM

It's no surprise that someone from the legal profession is a proponent of a, most likely, quite lengthy and very expensive trial....did I mention expensive....ka ching!

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:59 AM

Er - not only that Keith. The US in this case were not acting on enemy held territory.

Please note that I am not saying that the death of ObL was necessarily a bad thing - we will have to wait and see. The manner of its doing was IMHO unlawful.



Fugitive from Sanity: ObL may have committed crimes. Was he lawfully taken tried and sentenced? No. Unless rule of law prevails there is only the power of the gun.

Generally:

There are statements circulating (and parts of them may be true) that there had been offers to surrender ObL for an unbiassed trial in an unbiassed jurisdiction - but that the USA refused to consider them. That may or may not be accurate, but it is disturbingly similar to the refusal of the USA to recognise the jurisdiction of other countries on war crimes. I cannot see how ObL could have got a fair trial in the USA - indeed with the number of gun nutters there it would have been difficult to see how he could have survived in the USA until trial.

Proper trial is what separates criminal process from vigilantism. While I do not claim to be a master of US procedural rules it seems to me plausible that any trial of ObL in the US would have fallen foul of the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lox
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:52 AM

Well the answer is that you and your wife both get shot.

Its as if the US Government are deliberately thinking of ridiculous lies just make sure we understand that they couldn't give a shit.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lox
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:30 AM

"As far as his being unarmed goes, that seems irrelevant to me. This operation was not a sheot'em up western; this was meant to take him out if he resisted in any way. It is most likely if he had held up his arms and fallen to his knees he would be alive."

How about if you are unarmed and cowering behind your wife?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:40 AM

I just love you American guys.
Not only do you illegally enter a foreign country armed to the teeth, you break into a private residence, murder unarmed people in cold blood, injure and cause grievous bodily harm to others, remove a body and 'bury' it without due process, AND THEN have the gall to say that the use of torture on illegally held prisoners who have never been charged with any crime was justified as it allowed you to do all this.
Priceless.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:17 AM

I can believe that some of the people in that neighbourhood truly might have been unaware of him living locally. It is quite possible. There have been many cases in the UK of murderers and abducters for example living in quiet residental areas. Neighbours have been shocked and surprised because it was claimed that the person was so quiet, easy going and unassuming so I can go along with that.

A short while ago quite recently I recall a news report saying that a recording from Bin Laden the first in a long while had been broadcast. It seems a bit of a coincidence now this has happened,   seems really fishy to me, could it be the broadcast was fake? With all the inconsistencies about the events it does make you wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 03:59 AM

"In case it escapes you Keith, there was a declared war in progress then."

Of course!
Sorry I missed that obvious distinction.

Had US been at war with Al Qaeda, it would be quite legal to kill any fighter unless they offered to surrender.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 11 - 02:26 AM

Richard Bridge to Nowhere: "This was simply the power of the gun."

Hey, he was the one who ordered CIVILIAN planes to kill innocent people in the WTC..according to the Geneva Convention, while declaring war on us, right???..and you're bitching because he wasn't wearing a uniform????

OK, now that you read this post, you can replace your head up your ass!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 May 11 - 02:16 AM

In case it escapes you Keith, there was a declared war in progress then.

It may be a "good thing" that ObL is dead, although there are possible adverse consequences, but the manner of his killing was improper.

If he was not an enemy soldier he was entitled to due process as much as anyone else. Outlawry vanished from civilised jurisprudence centuries ago. I hope that even the USA no longer has a category of "Wanted, dead or alive". There was no trial. There was no lawful sentence of death.

If he was an enemy soldier, then he was entitled to be treated as per convention. He wasn't.

If he was an enemy leader then international law proscribed assassination.

The US had no lawful power of arrest - or military action in what was neither within their jurisdiction nor an enemy territory.


This was simply the power of the gun.   The outcome may turn out to be advantageous, but that does not make it proper.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:39 AM

Give up on polite dialogue, eh Josepp?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: michaelr
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:25 AM

Nah, too skinny.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: J-boy
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:20 AM

Bin Laden did look a bit like a folkie. What with that beard and all...

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:13 AM

Moral of the story: Declare war, kill people, and you might be next. Maybe he should have taken up folk music!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:09 AM

Did "civilization end" in 1941 when there was a British attempt to kill Rommel?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: J-boy
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:53 AM

Some fuckwit in my hometown of Portland,Maine spray painted "Obama today. Islam tomorow"(sic) on the side of our local muslim community center. I wish I could say it was surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:11 AM

///Fact is Osama DID complain about "invasion" of his holy lands. "Invasion" was his choice of words Whether he meant, Arabia, or all of the Middle East or every Arab land was not made clear. Why don't you go argue with him?///

Whose prattling about invasion now? Fuckin asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:09 AM

////I'm sure you know what Kendall meant. You constant prattling on about who invaded whom is worse than useless.////


They were pratlling more than anybody--shut up, man!

////Fact is Osama DID complain about "invasion" of his holy lands.////

I don't give a fuck what he waws complain about. He's dead so fuck him.

////By the way. I'd tell you just how I thought about how you were acting. But if I said you were acting like and asshole you would probably tell me that "Websters" defines you as dickhead.///

That's how I'd define you.   

///Also, I liked the comments about the neighbors. I like the Muslims I have met. I agree with your point of view on that issue.///

Whoopee.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Clint Westwood
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:03 AM

conspiracy theory 1: shoot to kill to silence him to avoid capture and potentially embarrassing implicating trial disclosures..

conspiracy theory 2: killed years ago, body kept in deep freeze
to be thawed at an opportunistic political moment..

conspiracy theory 3: knew where he was all the time, CIA funded and built
compound to keep him safe from prying eyes until he was no longer a viable asset..

conspiracy theory 4: Genetic experiment gone wrong, Alien tissue samples fused with his body producing uncontrollable
mutant super villain capable of wiping out all life on planet
with one blast of evil x ray mind vision..

conspiracy theory 5: oops.. it's the wrong bloke, they aint got him after all...


etc etc etc etc etc...

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:57 PM

As far as his being unarmed goes, that seems irrelevant to me. This operation was not a sheot'em up western; this was meant to take him out if he resisted in any way. It is most likely if he had held up his arms and fallen to his knees he would be alive.

Like Saddam- he was taken alive because he came meekly.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:43 PM

Rapparee: "As I said before, I'm sorry he's dead. I'm sorry when anyone dies. I am not, however, weeping over him anymore than I weep over the deaths of Adolph Hitler, Che Guevara, Elizabeth Bathory, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Tsar Ivan III, Pope Alexander VI, Boone Helm, Clay Allison, John Henry Holliday, Colonel Patrick Edward Connor, George Custer, Irma Ida Ilse Grese, Ilse Koch, Stalin or any others of that sort."

Any less?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:11 PM

As I said before, I'm sorry he's dead. I'm sorry when anyone dies. I am not, however, weeping over him anymore than I weep over the deaths of Adolph Hitler, Che Guevara, Elizabeth Bathory, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Tsar Ivan III, Pope Alexander VI, Boone Helm, Clay Allison, John Henry Holliday, Colonel Patrick Edward Connor, George Custer, Irma Ida Ilse Grese, Ilse Koch, Stalin or any others of that sort.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:36 PM

Prof. Pervez Hoodbhoy on how the Pakistan Army gave protection to Osama Bin Laden, treating him as the Golden Goose that helped them extract more and more from the Americans.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/160658/the-curious-case-of-osama-bin-laden/

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:27 PM

First of all, how short Americans memory serves them. Does anyone here remember the initial reports of Jessica Lynch??...and the truth that came out after?????
Second, This punk, Osama got young, naive religious jerks to blow up innocent people(including themselves), while he hid away and hid behind women..at least his own according to those same 'reports'...nonetheless, he declared war on America, and killed plenty of us...so, if that's his deal, why all the ballyhoo about how or when or the circumstances of his demise? What?? You want to 'rehabilitate' him?? This pig IS one of the corporate fat cats, who you regularly hate on this forum. Why all this bleeding heart sympathy, for this mass murderer??. Next, you'll be weeping for Charles Manson!...and this pig was WAY worse!
That being said, I am against murder, of virtually any sort..so, something had to stop him! (ever consider that?)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:09 PM

Well, whatever the truth of the matter is, Osama bin Laden is with his friends now.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:22 PM

Well... if they could have taken him alive they would have. The trial would have been swift as he is on video tape saying he did the crime.

As for him spending time in prison being Bubba's bitch, that don't happen nor should it. It just don't happen.

As for all the CSI shit, I don't understand it. What supposedly happened supposedly happened. Now it will be to step up to the plate time for NATO... stop the bombing and the killing and work with "the enemy" or continue to be an enemy of the enemy who will, in turn, be an enemy... ad infinitum.

There is an opportunity to move forward... or further backward... and most nations, especially Arab nations, have expressed same.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:50 PM

It ain't about that, Don... Bin Laden got off too easy... There isn't any report that I know of that says bin Laden was going for a weapon so given what he did (9/11 et al) I think a life time of being locked up in a 8 X 12 cell with one very horny, ugly and brutal murderer would have been fine with me...

He got off light...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:30 PM

There seems to be someone here who is all a-weep over the fact that bin Laden was shot while unarmed (although I heard--within the past hour--that he was going for a weapon, but didn't make it), and accusing those who shot him of "Wild West"ing it.

Not an ounce of sympathy for the 3,000+ people who were killed, and their families, when the World Trade Center was attacked.

Strange sense of values. Sounds like the kind of person who would sympathize with a rapist and blame his victim for provoking the attack.

Don Firth