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BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???

Lonesome EJ 02 May 11 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,lively 02 May 11 - 01:34 PM
Donuel 02 May 11 - 01:44 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 May 11 - 02:01 PM
saulgoldie 02 May 11 - 02:24 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 May 11 - 02:28 PM
kendall 02 May 11 - 02:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 May 11 - 02:31 PM
Lonesome EJ 02 May 11 - 02:37 PM
olddude 02 May 11 - 02:38 PM
Lonesome EJ 02 May 11 - 03:14 PM
frogprince 02 May 11 - 03:17 PM
olddude 02 May 11 - 03:19 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 May 11 - 03:19 PM
Lonesome EJ 02 May 11 - 03:29 PM
Don Firth 02 May 11 - 03:30 PM
gnu 02 May 11 - 03:35 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 May 11 - 03:41 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 May 11 - 03:43 PM
Amos 02 May 11 - 03:48 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 02 May 11 - 03:55 PM
Bill D 02 May 11 - 03:59 PM
Jeri 02 May 11 - 04:10 PM
Richard Bridge 02 May 11 - 04:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 May 11 - 04:26 PM
gnu 02 May 11 - 04:56 PM
Taconicus 02 May 11 - 05:01 PM
katlaughing 02 May 11 - 05:10 PM
gnu 02 May 11 - 05:29 PM
Shanghaiceltic 02 May 11 - 06:10 PM
Wesley S 02 May 11 - 06:11 PM
Greg F. 02 May 11 - 06:12 PM
Wesley S 02 May 11 - 06:24 PM
Greg F. 02 May 11 - 06:31 PM
Greg F. 02 May 11 - 06:32 PM
Wesley S 02 May 11 - 06:36 PM
Wesley S 02 May 11 - 06:39 PM
Janie 02 May 11 - 06:41 PM
gnu 02 May 11 - 06:43 PM
GUEST,TIA 02 May 11 - 07:06 PM
Janie 02 May 11 - 07:11 PM
Janie 02 May 11 - 07:23 PM
bobad 02 May 11 - 07:36 PM
Joe_F 02 May 11 - 08:00 PM
Janie 02 May 11 - 08:00 PM
josepp 02 May 11 - 09:03 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 02 May 11 - 09:25 PM
artbrooks 02 May 11 - 09:37 PM
Taconicus 02 May 11 - 09:46 PM
Richard Bridge 02 May 11 - 10:00 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 May 11 - 01:26 PM

You know, Richard, it wouldn't be entirely surprising to find out that a video showing Osama was being cobbled together to inform the Arab World that he's still alive. You have to wonder if he was smart enough to have pre-filmed something that would dispute claims that he was killed, which could be photoshopped with, for example, a 5/3 edition newspaper.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 02 May 11 - 01:34 PM

"And it wasn't payback for Iraq. Apparently these idiots don't realize that Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq happened AFTER 9-11."

That's correct. I think the prior poster was confusing Bin Laden's statement about his reasons for the 9/11 attack. In fact he claimed that it was retribution for the American-Israeli alliance, the Israeli occupation of Palastine and invasion of Lebanon:

    "Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

    – Osama bin Laden, 2004[98]


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 11 - 01:44 PM

All biting satire aside...


After spending nearly 4 trillion dollars off budget in military expenditures since 2002 followed by a Wall St. inside job of stealing another 4 trillion dollars by fraudulently wagering up to 90 trillion...
what ever ideas Usama bin laden had by attacking our financial center and hoping for a bankrupting war similar to the Russians in Afghanistan that led to the loss of their empire, I daresay his prayers were answered many times over.

Given these facts, the same issues I warned about 10 years ago, I am sad to say bin Laden was partly victorious in the financial destruction of America.

Didn't anyone in the Bush Administartion read the Art of War?
















Similar to Bill D's psychic notion that an annourcment of our getting bin Laden was forthcoming, I said 8 years ago that if we want to have any chance of getting this guy we will need to follow his video tape courior.





regarding cable news.

There is a difference of course between the FOX converage of this event compared to NBC.

FOX says that Usama was told told to surrender before he was shot.
NBC says that capture was not the mission. It was only to kill.

FOX said his body was burned and then buried at sea.
NBC describes cleansing, wrapping, prayers in Arabic and burial at sea.

FOX mentioned Obama by name less than 6 times all day unless it was a quote by Dick Cheney who mentioned Obama by name. Otherwise FOX only says "The President". George W Bush is mentioned by name more than Obama. Obama is critisized for his handling of this mission.

NBC is roughly the opposite of the above.

FOX is saying that this mission is hard proof for an increased use of rendition and special interrogation techniques.

Both NBC and FOX have only seldom mentioned the killing of his adult son and the wounding of his wife.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:01 PM

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Monday hailed Osama bin Laden's death as a key turning point in the world's struggle against terrorism.

"The death of Osama bin Laden, announced by President (Barack) Obama last night, is a watershed moment in our common global fight against terrorism," Ban told reporters.

Maybe he and Obama know something Mudcat libs don't?


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: saulgoldie
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:24 PM

This from Andy Borowitz:

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – In what historians are calling an unprecedented development in American politics, both major parties decided today to cancel the 2012 election.

The decision to scrap the 2012 contest came on the heels of a new poll showing President Barack Obama with an approval rating of one hundred percent, believed to be a record high for an American president.

Mr. Obama even polled well among Republicans, with a majority of GOP voters agreeing with the statement, "I no longer care that he wasn't born here."

The new bipartisan spirit sweeping the nation was captured well by House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), who tearfully told reporters, "This is a great day for America… oh, leave me alone, goddamn it."

Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump made no official announcement, but sources said he was considering running for Prime Minister of Canada.

The cancellation of the election comes in the aftermath of the death of Osama bin Laden, whose last words reportedly were, "I knew I shouldn't have signed up for Foursquare."

Of all the major news networks, Fox News did not report news of bin Laden's death, saying that it would air cartoons "until further notice."

In Libya, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi issued the following official statement: "Uh-oh."

In North Korea, President Kim Jong-Il said this: "I have lost my last friend on Facebook."

And in Wasilla, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said this: "We must find and kill Osama bin Laden."


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:28 PM

It may have made things more dangerous id the very short run. In the long run, he is not much of a martyr caught cowering in his million dollar bunker. As for being safer, there is this. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/02/cia-analyze-electronic-evidence-seized-bin-laden-compound/

Fox is reporting a large quantity of valuable information found in the compound. Fox is no friend of the Administration. So there is probably some truth to the report.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:30 PM

josepp, better get out the bifocals and look again. The first invasion of Iraq happened in 1991.
Osama also said they hate us for the reasons I already stated.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:31 PM

Well, he would say that. Can you imagine him saying "It doesn't really make much difference"?

Bin Laden was probably more of a cheerleader than anything. If anything being killed will make him a more effective cheerleader. It's hard to see any way in which it makes it any more likely that the people who share his ideology will give up or be defeated any more quickly because he is dead.

And what on earth are you adopting this Americanised jargon about "libs" for, Keith? Barack Obama is a "lib", in that sense, and so are you.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:37 PM

Had Ted Bundy been prevented from further serial killing and become only a "cheerleader" for serial killing, or for that matter for the abolition of capital punishment, it wouldn't have made him any more benign or any less deserving of his fate.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: olddude
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:38 PM

Look I am a person with military ties in my family back through the ages. I have a deep love and respect for those in uniform. I trained people in uniform.   However, my heart and conscience says revenge is never a good path to take. I have no desire to mourn for that guy, he was pure evil ... my comment was, in order to stop terrorism you have to address the root cause you can't stop it with bullets ... I think that is a logical assumption. Likewise, even in battle, I take no delight in the killing of another. At times it has to be done to protect others, but it is nothing to cheer about I think anyway. My only concern is we did not lose any of our people during the mission.   Bin Laden was evil, but finding out what made him that way and taking steps to stop the creation of another Bin Laden is the proper path ... If it is our policies, or our attitudes or our whatever then we need to address that. There will also be people who just do evil things for no reason .. I know that also .. but celebrating a death no matter who it is , I think is not the right path in life.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:14 PM

It's called justice, old dude, and I think that's what he got. I am not saying that we don't need to understand his motivations, or deal with the conditions that created him, or examine our own transgressions in the middle east.
Clyde Barrow was raised in an era of great poverty, repression, and injustice in the 30s. So was my Grandfather. The difference is my Grandfather treated people well, worked hard, and scrapped for a living. Clyde Barrow robbed banks and killed people. There is no doubt that a depression is a bad thing and needs to be prevented or eradicated. To do so, we must understand the facts about a depression. But morality, justice, and ethics are primary codes of human behavior, and someone like Clyde barrow, or Bin Laden, should never be excused for his actions, especially when performed on the scale of mass murder.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: frogprince
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:17 PM

"They hide their cowardice behind bullshit platitudes"

Josepp, you have all the right in the world to disagree with the stance of the people you're speaking of. But you have no justification whatever for linking their position to cowardice, and you are responding to an individual whom you have no justification whatever for marking as cowardly.

                      Dean


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: olddude
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:19 PM

Ej
I can completely understand that logic my dear friend, I do ... I will shed no tear for that creep ... I just won't celebrate it ... but I can certainly understand those who do for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:19 PM

Kendall, I think your point was a good one. I think the problem was in the way you put it.

As I recall it, what Bin Laden said was that he was fighting at that time was the presence of infidels in Saudi Arabia. Though there was a lot of aerial bombardment at the time and Allied troops did cross Iraqi borders while chasing the invasion force out of Kuwait, Iraq was not per se invaded at that time. And I have never heard anything form Bin Laden indicating that he cared at all about Iraq until the GW Bush invasion.

That said, I don't think we could have allowed Saddam to keep Kuwait and to threaten Saudi Arabia just because Bin Laden did not like it. I think that G H W Bush did what he had to. So did Clinton. The major mistakes on this matter were made by W.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:29 PM

old dude, agreed. That's why today I am keeping in mind the victims of 911 and their families. I think this brings some closure to them, as it does to the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:30 PM

When the compound was stormed, bin Laden was found in an upstairs room. The troops who found him said that he was using a woman as a shield. They said he was given an opportunity to surrender and come quietly, but instead he reached for a weapon. The troops fired, carefully avoiding hitting the woman, hitting bin Laden twice in the head.

Muslim funeral rituals require that a person who has just died must be buried within twenty-four hours. bin Laden's body was ceremonially washed as is required by Muslim law, and the funeral ceremony was properly conducted by an Imam before he was buried at sea.

Wesley has the right of it. The decision to bury him at sea was in order to avoid his grave, wherever it might have been, from becoming "the shrine of a martyr."

The "birthers," now the "deathers" ("I don't believe it! Where's the body!?"), and all the conspiracy theory squirrel bait out there (and, of course, right here on Mudcat) are going to have a field day. But then, what's new?

A day for celebration? I think not! I felt that all that cheering and flag-waving is quite inappropriate. A feeling of grim satisfaction, yes. But celebrating? Kind of tacky.

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***
For the person who, whenever Barack Obama appears on television, never fails to say something about his using a teleprompter, as if Obama where incapable of stringing together a cohesive sentence (like Sarah Palin, who, when she starts a sentence in Ohio, it winds up on Mars and contains neither subject nor predicate). Actually, Obama, a very bright man, has, on many occasions, proven himself to be an excellent extemporaneous speaker. The remark, of course, is to try make him out to be some sort of mushy-brained doofus, which he obviously is not.

Profession broadcasters who work before television cameras all the time use teleprompters, and it only makes sense, if one is delivering a formal address on nationwide television, to have one's notes, or for that matter, the entire speech, written out and available on a teleprompter. Before television cameras and telepromters, speakers (FDR, Eisenhower, whoever) during the days of radio, often read their speeches from typed text, or most certainly from outlined notes.

Many popular entertainers use a teleprompter. And before it was invented, entertainers (Andy Williams, other singers, various comedians) had The Words written out in large letters on large cards held by someone standing next to the camera, who carefully changed cards as the song or routine progressed.

So—give it a rest, already!! It just makes YOU look petty and mean-spirited.

That's a friendly tip, by the way.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:35 PM

In light of the varied discussions herein, I have a question... in the "Bible' ir in the "Torah", are there any "directives" to kill people of other faiths simply based on their faith?


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:41 PM

I don't think that the people celebrating V-E day and V-J were celebrating the tens of thousands of deaths in Nagasaki and Dresden. I think that they were happy and proud that their side had prevailed and an arduous and trying period of the war was over.

I'm not saying that the manhunt for Bin Laden was equal to the war in scale or cost to the country. On the other hand the celebration on the streets for the end of the threat of Bin Laden also was much smaller.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:43 PM

Gnu, I'd like for you to explain your question a bit. You seem to be implying that Bin Laden was killed for his faith. That's not like you at all so I am sure that I missed something.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Amos
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:48 PM

Let me point out that this entire operation probably cost less than fifty million, including choppers and intel. Imagine if we had categorized this man as a high-pri international criminal target of special ops ten years ago? We'd have had him by 2005, I imagine.

Ten years ago a bad policy call by a stupid individual put us instead on a course of invasion and war. PErhaps there's a lewsson to be learned here?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:55 PM

"...You say "moral decadence" as if it were a bad thing. Sorry, but neither country has anything to apologize for. Some folks seem to feel that the only defense is to grab your ankles and bend over and apologize for creating the situation. Sorry, it doesn't work that way...."


Ron, when Al used that term, to me it meant moral decay, morals thrown out the window, morals and outlook going down, down, deeper and down.

Whether we like it or not, that's exactly what has happened in both our countries. Personally, I don't like it.

Moral decadence, to me, has *nothing* to do with women being treated as equals...(this is in relation to jacqui's post) I've said many a time that until the women of the Middle East rise up against how they are treated nothing will move forwards respect-wise. Of course women should have the same rights as men, be free to make their own choices, etc..I don't argue with that at all.

What saddens me is how things have progressed in our country these days, to a state of *anything* goes, because it seems to me that so many folks, men and women alike, have lost respect for themselves over here and in the USA.   We really could do with folks putting their clothes back on a bit more, raising the standard of behaviour and having both respect for others and respect for themselves.

That's what I was talking about, nowt to do with women's freedom etc, which goes without saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bill D
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:59 PM

I repeat what I said above" "If we had gotten bin Laden at Tora Bora 9 years ago, there would STILL have been reactions from those who viewed him as a hero!"

Likewise..If we had gotten bin Laden at Tora Bora 9 years ago, or even had been successful in those several years BEFORE 9/11, there would have been little concern over our motives, or our methods! If a bully hits you, and it takes you awhile to get justice, are you less entitled?

Bin Laden was a symbol to terrorists and a future danger if we had simply gotten tired of looking and given up.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:10 PM

My life was directly, but only moderately affected by him for about 3 weeks in June, 1998.

He was a threat before 9/11, and he would have continued to be a threat as long as he lived. I don't want to celebrate, either. The only option was to get rid of him, and while people are likely glad that one less killer is out in the world, nobody, including me, wants to think about what had be done to eliminate him.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:23 PM

While there may be occasions in which police or military in a police role may lawfully use "deadly force" without the target having been lawfully condemned to death, for example when someone is lawfully required to yield and in stead reaches for a weapon, what legal right did US forces have to detain someone in Pakistan?

I am quite concerned that if this US action was lawful (as distinct from desirable - I think it quite likely that it was desirable although I worry about the creation of a martyr and the absence of populist proof of death) then there may be many outside the USA who might claim that similar attempts to seize someone in the USA would be lawful and that their resistance rendered killing them lawful.

Much the same I think applies to attempts to kill Gadaffi - the distinction between "control and command" and him personally being a silly and transparent sophistry.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:26 PM

I can't see how stuff about a "end of a threat" are relevant - Bin Laden is no less of a threat dead than alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:56 PM

JtS... explain my question...

Okay, here it is... again... but MUCH more clearly asked.

In light of the varied discussions herein, I have a question... in the "Bible' or in the "Torah", are there any "directives" to kill people of other faiths simply based on their faith?

Sorry about the typo. I am sure that is what threw you off.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Taconicus
Date: 02 May 11 - 05:01 PM

Donuel, I've been watching all three cable networks sequentially, and most of what you say about the difference between the coverage by the three networks is false. Perhaps you're hearing the coverage through your own perceptual filter.

FOX said his body was burned and then buried at sea.
False. Fox News says buried, not burned, "according to Islamic tradition." Not once did they say burned.

FOX mentioned Obama by name less than 6 times all day unless it was a quote by Dick Cheney who mentioned Obama by name. Otherwise FOX only says "The President". George W Bush is mentioned by name more than Obama.
I've heard no perceptible difference in the coverage in this regard between the three cable networks.

[On FOX] Obama is critisized for his handling of this mission.
I've been watching since last night, and I've heard no criticism whatsoever on Fox News (or the other networks) for the handling of this mission. In fact, they've been outright laudatory.

FOX is saying that this mission is hard proof for an increased use of rendition and special interrogation techniques.
Fox News did mention that the intel for the mission was obtained by rendition, and suggested this would be evidence in favor of those techniques, but they never used the term "hard proof" or anything like it. I believe this may be your editorial contribution.

Both NBC and FOX have only seldom mentioned the killing of his adult son and the wounding of his wife.
No perceptible difference between the three cable networks in reporting this.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 11 - 05:10 PM

Donuel,

Once again, you have done BRILL with your parody skills. PLEASE send it to Rachel Maddow or give me permission to do so?

Jeri, well said, I agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 11 - 05:29 PM

Richard... "Much the same I think applies to attempts to kill Gadaffi - the distinction between "control and command" and him personally being a silly and transparent sophistry."

Indeed, such is, at the VERY least, an insult (sorry for such a POOR term) to all. It is inane.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:10 PM

The killing of Bin Laden will not stop the AQ carrying out further attacks, however it has removed a figurehead and an important one at that.

Had he been captured alive then that would have led to kidnappings and deaths worldwide in order to free him. So it was a right decision to take him out.

AQ will of course continue their attacks and continue to promote hate on non muslims, they now have a saint on which to hang their beliefs.

Been listening to the BBC news and it appears that he was given a respectful sea burial, not just dumped. That at least shows some forethought on the part of the people behind the operation.

I can never see the end of the terrorism, it will never go away, it is now so deeply rooted and entrenched in all parts of the middle east and quite honestly there is no one who can stop it unless you take out all fundementalists of all religeons and that is never going to happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:11 PM

This will show what I think happened yesterday:


Youtube Filmclip


Did he feel happy about what happened - no

Did he celebrate - no

Would he do it again tomorrow - you bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:12 PM

Actually, Osama Bin Laden didn't kill anyone.

His minions did.

In which case, why hasn't Navy Seal Team 6 put bullets into Henry Kissinger's head?

Ain't that just the American Way, tho - an extra-legal assasination without trial.

Makes me so proud, I could just shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:24 PM

"Makes me so proud, I could just shit. "

Please don't. One of you is enough....


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:31 PM

Hey, Wes- what about that "rule of law", & "due process" bullshit, eh? Just something to be disregarded as it suits, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:32 PM

Kinda puts the Land Of The Free on the same level as the Tay-Rists, don't it, Wes?


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:36 PM

Check out the film clip Greg. That should explain to to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:39 PM

Maybe another film clip would help.....

The Rule of Law


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:41 PM

Well said, Jeri.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:43 PM

Wesley S... the video... indeed. Well "said". RATHER well said indeed. My hat is off to you sir.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:06 PM

Actually Donuel's characterization of the FOX coverage is pretty good. They interviewed *only* former Bush admin people (Chertoff, Perino, etc.) and lauded the information gained at Gitmo by enhanced interrogation,nary a mention of the current president. It was a day-long celebration of GWB.

Oh, and by the way, a number of FOX stations mistakenly (yeah right) put up headlines or crawlers saying that Obama bin Laden was dead. No shit. Go Google it.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:11 PM

Thanks for that To Kill a Mockingbird clip, Wesley.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:23 PM

A somewhat thoughtful article.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/02/osama.bin.laden.emotions/index.html?hpt=T1


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:36 PM

For those wringing their hands over the legality of the op, I heard a spokesman for the Pakistani foreign service saying that Pakistan had an agreement with the US that if they located Bin Laden in Pakistan they could take him out.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 May 11 - 08:00 PM

Good riddance, anyway.
ObSongs:
    We will heave him down into some dark hole
    Where the sharks'll have his body and the Devil have his soul.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 02 May 11 - 08:00 PM

skarpi, I can't simply let your post stand, even knowing you are a popular figure here, and I am likely to be castigated for commenting.

First, let me say I do not celebrate the death of bin Laden. I do not celebrate the death of any person. I accept your antipathy and complete but somewhat (though not entirely) irrational antipathy and mistrust toward the United States as your right, and of course understand that you do not advocate violence toward us. I also accept that every person's point of view is valid from their perspective.   

What you wrote was.... I don`t believe that
Bin laden was the head of the attack on twin tower ....


Osama bin Laden very publicly claimed credit for the attack on the Twin Towers. He was a very smart man, and very certain of his righteousness and his mission. He went to great pains, and made considerable personal sacrifice, to organize and provide the seed financing for a terrorist group known as Al Qaeda, and in his righteous certainty, sowed more seeds of hate and terrorism around the world.

The implication of your statement, intended or not, is that the United States staged the attacks on September 11, 2001 for the sake of oil.    I find that both absurd and offensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:03 PM

////josepp, better get out the bifocals and look again. The first invasion of Iraq happened in 1991.
Osama also said they hate us for the reasons I already stated.////

Newsflash: there was no invasion of Iraq in 1991. They were pushed out of Kuwait. They were not pursued across the borders of Iraq and Hussein was left in power. THAT's what Osama didn't like.

Bin Laden and Hussein despised one another. Why do you think there were no Iraqi hijackers on 9-11 and no al-Qaida in Iraq? The US did him the biggest favor by taking out Saddam. No matter what Bin Laden says (and who in their right mind would take anything he says at face value?), Saddam hated him and would have had him killed if he dared set foot in Iraq which is why he never did.

Osama Bin Laden gave us George Bush the dictator, he gave us the REAL Invasion of Iraq, he gave us the War on Terror, he gave us the no-fly list and TSA body searches and the Patriot Act and the rise of Iran. If it hadn't been for him, Geroge Bush would have been done in 4 years. So am I glad he's dead? You're fuckin' A right I'm glad he's dead. I wish he'd died back in 1998 and saved the world a whole lot of trouble.

So, in many ways, he won. He got what he wanted. So fuck him.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:25 PM

I don't have the smallest smidgeon of concern for Osama Bin Laden, or any other terrorist. As far as I am concerned the only just end for them is death.

I'm glad he has gone although the idea that his death makes anyone safer is naive in the extreme.

I am concerned by the establishment of what I consider to be a dangerous precedent.

Ex Pakistan leader Musharraf was interviewed on BBC TV News this morning, and his views are very similar to my own. American special forces violated the sovereignty of an ally (nominally at least) in an action which would in the past have been considered an act of war.

Now it has been said above that there was tacit agreement with the current Pakistan government (as yet unconfirmed), but a precedent has still been set, of military action in a foreign sovereign state without the specific consent or knowledge of that state's rulers.

So, when the US gets its next GeeDub type President, we might expect some nasty situations to develop.

Or maybe we won't have to wait that long. Could we see Assange surgically removed from Sweden, or that young fool who hacked US computers taken off English soil.

I don't really expect either of those scenarios to occur. I just feel that the world has become a little less safe from the US, and I wonder what the US response would be if a high priority target terrorist were snatched from US soil by the SAS without the White House being notified.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:37 PM

Josepp, it would be a great surprise to a number of friends of mine to be told that Coalition troops did not cross the borders of Iraq. Wonder where they were, really? This might refresh your memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Taconicus
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:46 PM

There's a difference between celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden as an expression of hatred, and celebrating his death as a victory against Al Qaeda, which it is. For great many reasons, his death is a big advance in that war, which is still continuing. It's not morally wrong to celebrate it for that reason.

Nor is it wrong to feel that it is a victory for justice.


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Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:00 PM

Justice requires due process.


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