BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:04 PM

The following link was posted by a fellow Mudcatter on their facebook page. Without that person's permission, I'm not comfortable with attributing that person's posting of the link.

Very thoughtful, what is expressed.

http://ethicalplatform.net/leaders/2011/05/a-time-to-mourn/

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: EBarnacle
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:20 PM

I heard and interesting report on one of the financial sites. It seems that the long term effect of taking out OBL may be that the funding of al-Qaeda will dry up. Apparently, it has become increasingly difficult for AQ fundraisers to raise money unless they were able to get back to OBL to verify their legitimacy.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:29 PM

Well, I didn't learn of this until just a couple of hours ago... Been kinda busy... Haven't read all this thread either...

But...

... as much as I hate seeing people killed for their ideas I guess I'd rather see them get off'd than a couple hundred innocent people... Take Saddam... We could have off'd him and saved 4000 Americans and maybe a million Iraqis??? Yeah, that would have been messed up to have off'd Saddam but just do the "numbers game"???

Nah, this all boils down to ending the geo-political war that has been going on since WW II... I mean, we keep havng these "proxy wars"... Problem is that real people get real dead in them...

In the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change..."

But, hey, at least the Repubs gott eat a little crow pie tonight so Obama has a couple days off from the "birther" loonies... I mean, a couple days off from loonies ain't a bad thing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bill D
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:32 PM

"Justice requires due process." Spoken like one who makes his living following specific FORMS of due process....and there in nothing wrong with that, when it is both possible and appropriate.

...but 'due process' can defined in various ways. Formal 'legal' due process is only one way. When a terrorist or other serious criminal had vowed NOT to be taken alive, and is protected in various ways, justice can be served in other ways.

Subject: Obama Bin Laden ???
From: Taconicus
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:38 PM

Justice requires due process. – R. Bridge

He got the kind of due process that is due an enemy on the battlefield, as appropriate.

Oh, and by the way, a number of FOX stations mistakenly (yeah right) put up headlines or crawlers saying that Obama bin Laden was dead. No shit. Go Google it. – Tia

Not exactly, Tia. A local Fox affiliate station in Sacramento, California did show a headline that read: "Obama bin Laden dead". But mentioning that as an example of media bias at Fox News is disingenuous, and only shows the bias of the poster, because it doesn't mention all the other stations that made the same easy mistake. Leftwinger Keith Olbermann made the same slip – blogging that George W Bush had "deprioritised the hunt for Obama". An MSNBC correspondent tweeted: "Obama shot and killed". In fact, the mistake was so common that a number of other anchors or journalists also got their Obamas and Osamas mixed up, including at CNN and ABC News stations.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:49 PM

Ok, let's split a few hairs. What Osama objected to was our invasion of Muslin holy ground whether it be Iraq or Kuwait. We are still there and they still hate us for it.
Too many people believe that Bush lie about our freedom being the cause of their hate. Bollox!

Comparing Bin Laden to Clyde Barrow just doesn't fly. Barrow was seveley abused in prison and he vowed to get even. He did.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:55 PM

I am no more celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden than I celebrated the death of Idi Amin or Saddam Hussein. Saddam had a trial, in his own country, and he was punished under his country's laws. Amin died a "natural death," as I remember. bin Laden had declared "a Holy War" against the US:

"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation."
                      - Osama bin Laden - to CNN in March 1997

If someone declares war on me and takes violent actions against me I will defend myself as I find appropriate to the situation. Whether or not this applies to nations I don't know.

I do know that a human being (three or four, actually -- I've read different accounts) was killed in a firefight. I can wish that that person had been taken alive, but he himself said

We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the difference between us two.

Some do not believe he is dead: he is. This is the man who said

I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans.

All I can say is that he got his wish. I neither lament nor rejoice; I only hope that his death helps lower the level of terrorism in the world. It will never go away -- there is no guarantee of safety and security and there never was.

What I do hope is that the combat in Afghanistan and elsewhere ends soon.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 11 - 11:25 PM

End the geo-political war thinking...

Ya' know, Rodney King understands it better than the "collective" thinking world: "Get the heck along"...

No...

Make that "Get the fuck along" if that's what it takes to make it cool...

Just do it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: J-boy
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:00 AM

It's a strange but true fact that Osama Bin Laden was once our ally. The CIA and Osama helped us supply the mujahadeen in their holy war against the Soviets. Some of those weapons we supplied are now being used against us. Round and round it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:22 AM

President Obama began as a trial lawyer. My father was also a trial lawyer as is my sister. If there's one thing a lawyer who tries cases can do it's speak and speak well! It's their stock in trade. President Obama has, undoubtably, had plenty of experience speaking off the cuff, and he can, without doubt, do it better than most people. He does not need a teleprompter.
Bin Laden's unhappy demise means Obama can scale back military operations without looking weak. That will save lives.

I composed this in the fall of 2001. This will, probably be the last time I write it.

                   OSAMA BIN LADEN
             (With Appologies to Leigh Hunt)

Osama Bin Laden, may his tribe decrease,
Came home one night from disturbing the peace.
And in his cave was amazed to see
An angel writing on a gold PC.
Wow! said Osama, looking awed,
Are you listing the names of those who love God.
Nope, said the angel, this database
lists everyone who spits in God's face.
Great! said Osama, list away.
But you'll have to list the whole U.S.A.
With their Baywatch babes and their rock and roll.
Theirs is a nation without any soul.
Said the angel, Osama take a hint
Conisder as I save and print,
The things you do in Allah's name.
Osama was never quite the same,
For on that printout, as I know you guessed,
Lo! Bin Laden's name lead all the rest.

(Though the "Reverend" Fred Phelps ran a close second.)

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:24 AM

////Josepp, it would be a great surprise to a number of friends of mine to be told that Coalition troops did not cross the borders of Iraq. Wonder where they were, really? This might refresh your memory.////

That's not an invasion. That was to get them out of kuwait. When they were chased back far enough, we left.

Try again.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:39 AM

////don't really expect either of those scenarios to occur. I just feel that the world has become a little less safe from the US, and I wonder what the US response would be if a high priority target terrorist were snatched from US soil by the SAS without the White House being notified.////

What right would the US have to complain if we kept telling the SAS that we didn't have that high priority terrorist target when they can see he's living in Washington DC six blocks from the White House?

Pakistan is untrustworthy and a completely unworthy ally. If we have to depend on them to get anything done it will never happen. They have no integrity, their own word means nothing to them. They've taken our money and spent on themselves. They have breached international relations not the US. I've had a bellyful of Pakistan and their lying, dysfunctional bullshit.

Obama got it right. If they want to be trusted, they need to be trustworthy. They are not. And from I see they never will be. If Pakinstan had known we were going in after Bin Laden you can bet he would not have been there by the time we arrived. I'd trust Saudi Arabia before I trusted ever thought of trusting Pakistan and I don't trust Saudi Arabia one wit.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:57 AM

I didn't see a prior link to this:

World Leader Comments on Osama

Warning: "Frank" language.

John

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:15 AM

Webster, invasion: "an entering or being entered by an enemy military force". Perhaps you have 'invasion' and 'occupation' confused?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:18 AM

Kevin,
"Well, he would say that. Can you imagine him saying "It doesn't really make much difference"?"

I can imagine the Guardian saying it, but they don't.
Strong letter required?

The extremist liberal view, pity the perpetrator and blame the victim, has gone too far here.

He was just so angry we that we supported Kuwait with the blessing of every other Arab and Muslim government.
He should be allowed to live out his life in luxury in a modern city.
No.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:44 AM

"He was just so angry we that we supported Kuwait"

I've no idea what Bin Laden's motivation was for bombing the twin towers, apart from the statement that he made describing his motivations. In which he goes into detail about the American-Israeli alliance (and in which he makes no mention of either Kuwait or Iraq):

    "Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."
– Osama bin Laden, 2004


It's fair enough to discuss what might have been additional motivations - but as someone said below - those were the motivations he publicly stated and as such I have no reason to assume his motivations were other than those which he publicly stated.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:01 AM

No, Taconicus, ObL did not get even that process.

US forces, without proper authority, secretly entered the territory of a nation with which the US was not at war, proposed unlawfully to kidnap someone by force, and when he resisted, killed him.

Even if there had been a properly declared war, international law provides that one may not assassinate the leader of one's enemy. The presence of an Imam to carry out Islamic rituals strongly suggests that death rather than capture was at least a significant objective.


The death of ObL may turn out to be a good thing, although there are risks that he may continue to be adulated as duly executed Irish terrorists once were, and there are risks that the absence of a body to exhibit may lead to some remaining unconvinced of the death. But it is silly to pretend that it was achieved in accordance with law.

Without rule of law the only remaining authority is might - "might is right".

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:08 AM

Thanks Lively, but Kuwait has been offered as a justification here.

My argument stands.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:17 AM

Well that was one long extended eventful UK Bank Holiday all in all. I was woken by my son at 5am just as the news about OBL came through saying 'Oh my God, you have got to wake up and watch this.' Bin Laden being in Pakistan did not surprise me and walking free right under peoples noses. He was obviously an educated and calculating man so knew he would be more likely to be found in hiding rather than walking around freely, clever. I am glad he is gone but I don't feel any safer with extremists around and I don't think I ever will.

If he was shot in the head as it was told on the news I can understand that action, he was the mastermind of so many atrocities it would have been too lengthy a trial for the same outcome on top of that he would have had to been fed and watered etc. The sea burial seemed the most logical thing to do under the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 11 - 04:25 AM

You're still using that term "liberal" in that Americanized sense.   Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 May 11 - 05:07 AM

""What right would the US have to complain if we kept telling the SAS that we didn't have that high priority terrorist target when they can see he's living in Washington DC six blocks from the White House?""

Disingenuous Josepp.

You know damn well that would not be the response. The next day the President would be demanding that the members of that SAS unit be handed over to the US for trial, and threatening military action if they were not.

Where is the moral justification for doing to others what you would not accept being done to you?

The end achieved was a worthwhile one, rather spoiled by the means used to achieve it.

I would be quite interested in hearing the opinion of the UN on this one, but I fear they will wimp out.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 11 - 05:56 AM

Don, I posted Bam Ki Moon's reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 May 11 - 05:58 AM

Apparently, so I've just heard on the BBC News, Obama and Hilary Clinton were watching everything on video link. Whether they filmed the actual murder, I've no idea...but I find that fact disturbing.

Also, it was said that the moment he'd been given news that Osama bin Laden was dead, he immediately went out to tell the world.

Yet, wasn't the news already out there on the internet, prior to President Obama telling everyone?


I have such a bad feeling about all of this. Such a gut-churning, gut-wrenching feeling..and watching so many people whooping it up in New York made that feeling even worse.   It was almost as if I could sense, in other parts of the world, others watching those very same scenes, whilst in their heads and their hearts declaring the word 'JIHAD!' as never before...

I just hope to Allah that I am wrong.

But with this murder the world becomes an even more dangerous place.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:12 AM

It's also being reported that when the Seals took Osamas body away that they also removed his computer and hard drive. That should be interesting.

So what to the 9/11 "inside job" cultists have to say about all of this?

By the way - isn't it time to remove the question marks from the title of this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:46 AM

It seems clearer this morning that the Presidential order was "Shoot to kill!" for better or worse. I hope the Administration doesn't release the video and the still photography for a few decades, with the exception of one of the funeral ceremony.

Those who publicly celebrated Bin Laden's execution should realize (but probably won't) that videos of their "joy" will be spread around the world and be used to recruit more suicide bombers.

A "day (or year) in court" for Bin Laden instead of execution would have endangered thousands more.

Maybe this "immoral choice" was the better call.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:58 AM

Janie, I forgot to say earlier on...that link of yours, yes, very thought provoking indeed. I've often wondered about so many deeply intelligent folks who decide to cross that fatal line into destruction rather than salvation.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:21 AM

Oh, I'm not saying he isn't dead (I've started calling him Been Laden), just that I wish we'd seen the body before they buried it at sea.
There should be another word for that, to me "burial" implies in the ground. Maybe me cause in French it's "enterrer" - put into the earth - but still.
I have to say that it's the first time I was glad somebody was dead, and I was properly ashamed of myself for that feeling. Now I've rationalized it into being happy for Obama. Bet he still doesn't say Been Laden as often as Bush said 9/11 when campaigning for reelection!

(Footnote: it wasn't Al Quaeda who killed my dad in 1983, it was Hezbollah, financed by Iran - specifically Ayatollah-following Syrian-trained Lebanese moslems. But I'm still not sorry, not even that we went into another country to get him, since we'd warned that other country we would.)

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:45 AM

US forces, without proper authority, secretly entered the territory of a nation with which the US was not at war, proposed unlawfully to kidnap someone by force, and when he resisted, killed him. 9

Such as the Israeli kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:48 AM

Here's the Meriam-Webster definition verbatim. There was no invasion of Iraq in 1991. There was no conquest of plunder. Accept it.

Main Entry:in£va£sion
Pronunciation:in-*v*-zh*n
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English invasioune, from Anglo-French invasion, from Late Latin invasion-, invasio, from Latin invadere to invade
Date:15th century

1 : an act of invading; especially   : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
2 : the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:06 AM

/////""What right would the US have to complain if we kept telling the SAS that we didn't have that high priority terrorist target when they can see he's living in Washington DC six blocks from the White House?""

Disingenuous Josepp.

You know damn well that would not be the response. The next day the President would be demanding that the members of that SAS unit be handed over to the US for trial, and threatening military action if they were not./////

No, I do not know that damn well and neither do you. And even if the US did that, Pakistan is in no position to so who cares?

"You came into our country illegally and took Bin Laden!"

"Well, you swore you didn't have him after we gave you billions of dollars in aid as an ally."

Now what does Pakistan say? No, Pakistan is going to be very quiet. Look at it this way, one day your car is missing and you ask your neighbor if he saw anything. He says no. Then one day, he opens his garage door and you could SWEAR that's your missing car in there! You go to the cops who tell you, "We need more than that. You have to prove it's your car." So you open the guy's garage while he's at work and it's definitely yours. Now who are the cops going to arrest? You for breaking into his garage or him for grand theft auto?

////Where is the moral justification for doing to others what you would not accept being done to you?/////

You want deeply religious president, Don? I've had enough of those. I want a practical one and what Obama did was practical. I'd be furious with a president who refused to act on religious grounds.

////The end achieved was a worthwhile one, rather spoiled by the means used to achieve it.////

And you know damn well you'd have done exactly the same thing if you were in Obama's shoes. You know if you ask permission, Bin Laden will be spirited away and then Pakistan will deny he was ever there. By doing it this way, Pakistan is exposed for the lying, two-faced bastards they are. They're the ones with explaining to do. As far as I am concerned Obama was perfectly justified.

/////I would be quite interested in hearing the opinion of the UN on this one, but I fear they will wimp out.////

Anyone heere who thinks Obama was wrong to do it this way, tell me what you would have done if you were in his place. I know this is going to be GOOD.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:07 AM

Justice being served is a stretch but just revenge or vengeful justice is closer to the mark

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:13 AM

"Why didn't Pakistan help us find bin Laden, after all, we have given them 18 billion dollars since 2001 to help us find him?"


isn't it great when they answer their own question with their own question ?




What have you learned about Usama since the raid?

I learned he slept on a water bed with an unfinished pine board frame. He kept a jar of Vasoline by the bed. He had the same carpet I have. He seemed to not have a choice about where to live. The secret police probably kept him there as an ace in the hole for US aid or ransom, whichever was greater.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:19 AM

Josepp, you are wrong. The Coalition forces conquered Saddam in 1991. He lost - that is what conquer means. They choose not to occupy. Accept it.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:29 AM

How's THIS for surreal. Saturday was to have been the Race Against Racism, for which I had joined the Islamic Society's team to get to know and learn about THEIR culture. They welcomed me warmly to the team... I worked on getting sponsors.... but the Race got postponed to June, due to flooding at the venue.

Then we were away from TV/papers for a few days, and only learned of the purported hit on Bin Laden, when we were driving yesterday to an event. We learned it accidentally via cell from the contact we'd called for parking info-- she said that the venue had been closed and evacuated the night before due to an Islamic bomb threat because of Bin Laden! She wasn't sure we could even get into the city it was to be held in! And there WE were, worrying that the GPS might or might not work to find their new convention center!

It was an anti-racism event about the Underground Railroad, and on the way home-- as I reflected on the presentation, the consultation I picked up, and the issues of the people we'd just met-- all I could think about was the new friend I'd made for that Race, at the Islamic Society... and the awareness that I know NOTHING about how his life has changed since the weekend, but that it must have! And that it's on me to let him know that he is in my thoughts!

Bin Laden, BTW? We'll never "really" know, any more than we can ever be sure what really happened in Dallas. Too many layers of story-spinning, by real perfessionals. I'm keeping MY eye on the ball in MY court-- new Islamic friends to (hopefully) continue to get to know.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:53 PM

There was no invasion of Iraq in 1991

Not only is he WRONG, Art, he'a apparently delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:23 PM

Article: On Bin Laden's Death

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:27 PM

Wesley, That clip shows the Boers lined up and shot firing squad style after being captured and secured.

I think it was more like this.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:37 PM

LH-

Thoughtful point of view.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:40 PM

Pretty much everyone has welcomed it including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan (Karzai has also told NATO it must stop bombing.), Pakistan... only bunch I have heard of so far that haven't is Hamas.

NHK Japan...

US officials say Osama bin Laden was buried at sea after his death was confirmed by DNA testing.

Speaking to reporters on Monday, officials from the Defense Department and the CIA revealed the multiple methods used to identify the body of the Al Qaeda leader.

They said bin Laden was identified by a woman believed to be his wife, and by CIA experts who compared his face and body to known pictures of bin Laden.

The officials also said that a DNA test using samples collected from bin Laden's family members confirmed the identity.

A senior government official said that it was difficult to find a country willing to accept the remains and bury them within 24 hours in accordance with Islamic practice.

The official said that the corpse was lowered into the Arabian Sea from a US aircraft carrier on Monday.

The US government says there has been no evidence showing that the Pakistani government knew bin Laden was hiding in a compound near Islamabad.

The US government hopes to collect information about senior members of Al Qaeda by examining items, including computers, confiscated from the hideout.

Tuesday, May 03, 2011 08:32 +0900 (JST)

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:53 PM

////Josepp, you are wrong. The Coalition forces conquered Saddam in 1991. He lost - that is what conquer means. They choose not to occupy. Accept it.////

Oh, really? They conquered Saddam in 1991? Then who was running Iraq from 1992 until the Invasion?

How did George Bush manage to convince the American public and apparently much of the world that Saddam, conquered since 1991, had somehow managed to stockpile over 25,000 liters of anthrax ("enough doses to kill several million people"), over 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin ("enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure"), approximately "500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent" along with "upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents"? Not to mention trying to get 500 tons of yellowcake out of Niger! That's pretty good for a conquered leader.

It's only because he was not conquered that Bush foisted that lie off on the world and got away with it.

The dirty ragged man they pulled out of spider hole in December of 2003? THAT was a conquered leader. Could the US have conquered him in 1991 if they wanted to? Yes, of course. The US chose not to and therefore there was no invasion. Iraqi troops were chased out of Kuwait and it was left at that.

Now, come on, be reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:03 PM

////I'm keeping MY eye on the ball in MY court-- new Islamic friends to (hopefully) continue to get to know.////

There's an eatery down the street from me run by two Arab brothers, both Muslims. I was talking to the younger brother one night and he said that Jews and Muslims are cousins and the fighting would stop if only people on both sides would quit stirring things up.

"Osama bin Laden?" he said, "I would gladly kill him myself if I knew where he was."

Unfortunately, the press only plays up on the crazy Muslims in America rather than ones like my friends down the street.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:08 PM

How did George Bush manage to convince the American public

Easy. He lied.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:14 PM

Well, of course, he lied. I'm asking how he could have convinced anyone of the lie if Saddam had been conquered 1991?

This isn't rocket science, folks. Those who say the US invaded Iraq in 1991 are wrong. Just admit it--you're wrong. The US's actions in 1991 simply don't meet the definition of an invasion.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:17 PM

The US's actions in 1991 simply don't meet the definition of an invasion.

Sez you. Rave on.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Amos
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:40 PM

Obviously, you guys, there is a difference between invading someone's territory, and overthrowing their government and taking control of their capitol. When we drove Saddam out of Kuwait we conquered him, invaded part of his territory, whupped his army, and left.


We invaded him without overthrowing him.

Second time, we overthrew him.


A

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,roderick warner
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:49 PM

Osama? One scumbag less...

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: josepp
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:55 PM

////Obviously, you guys, there is a difference between invading someone's territory, and overthrowing their government and taking control of their capitol. When we drove Saddam out of Kuwait we conquered him, invaded part of his territory, whupped his army, and left.////

No, you didn't read the verbatim definition of invasion I posted from Meriam-Websters. Breaching the borders is an incursion. An invasion is an incursion for purposes or plunder or conquering. The US is guilty only of an incursion. The US did not invade Iraq in 1991. The US invaded Iraq in 2003.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:15 PM

CP is reporting "Pakistan slams US". Others are reporting Pakistan's foreign minister as approving in press conference. ???

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:26 PM

So has US now "invaded" Pakistan?
Of course not.
It carried out a limited operation on Pakistani territory and withdrew, as with Gulf war 1 and the attempt to rescue hostages in Iran a few years earlier.
Not invasions.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:27 PM

Now the White House is releasing information, that Osama wasn't armed, when he was shot dead....hmm..now before all the doily-headed, numb-skulls, start bitching of how unfair that was, consider that neither was anyone in the Trade Towers, either....or the commuters in train stations, or most of the people that he, and his cohorts murdered either.
Personally, I think the SEALS were on a mission to 'neutralize', him and gather intelligence, and that's what they did...FINALLY!
I do commend the whole operation, and Obama's decision to do it....in fact, I hope they get the rest of the scum-suckers, from the intelligence they gathered, Pakistan straightens up, and then the President gets onto cleaning up the economy, and the corruption that caused all of it!....and its not open for a stupid 'debate'!

GfS