BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower

Subject: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 13 May 11 - 04:33 PM

I go walking in our nature reserve several times a week . Because I think it is important to treat the land (and other users) with respect, I usually take out a plastic carrier bag with me and pick up any rubbish, which I see on the way. Nobody likes picking up someone else's rubbish, but the rubbish throwers are not going to change their behaviour any time soon, so it is up to the rest of us. I do not like the attitude of people who leave their rubbish behind, but I am obliged to respect it. No law can be effectively enforced to change their actions (or inaction) and at the end of the day, they have as much right to impose their will on the land as I have.
However, recently, I have noticed a whole new class of rubbish thrower at work.
I noticed that thorn bushes had been attracting an exceptionally large number of paper handkerchiefs. On closer inspection I found that they had not been carried there by the wind. Someone had actually weighted them with small stones and thrown them there deliberately! Whoever was doing this actually persisted for weeks until getting bored with it a couple of weeks ago.
Today there was a new one. Somebody had been out systematically tearing advertising newspapers and paper handkerchiefs into small pieces and throwing them down at regular intervals along the pathway. This person had invested considerable time and effort into making a part of a nature reserve dirty. There are plenty of smarter Mudcatters than me. Can anyone suggest a reason why someone should wish to invest time in such an activity?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 May 11 - 04:46 PM

They were laying a trail to be followed.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:05 PM

Boredom with life, purposelessness, and general frustration, that's why...the same reason people throw rocks at the windows of an abandoned building or scratch the paint on parked cars.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:38 PM

Very likely a paper chase as described at http://www.elook.org/dictionary/paper-chase.html
Don't know about new though: I remember taking part in such chases almost 50 years ago, and it was an old game then.

As to whether it is damaging - with little paper fragments I doubt it providing the paper pieces are small and will degrade easily - avoiding glossy paper, nylon wool and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:54 PM

alanabit I do like your great idea of taking out a carrier bag and picking up litter.
As a Environmental Health Officer I have in the past been involved in prosecutions where me or my colleges have actually caught the perpetrators. Sometimes Magistrates are not the most sympathetic when setting a penalty. One of my most disheartening experiences was when a builder had been found guilty of tipping 8 wagon loads of builders rubble that I had witnessed and around 30,000 tons I had not (at a place of scientific interest). He was fined £40 in total, this was around 35 years ago, but was then a tiny fine. A local Authority for which I have recently worked are handing out "on the spot" penalties of £60 for litter droppers, certainly a step in the right direction. They also have a camera van and several disguised cameras for evidence gathering. Your direct action gives me heart, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:26 PM

Some people have a self image that is so lacking that they have to have some way of telling the world that they were here. "Taggers" have the same problem.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:33 PM

Definitely a paper chase, though, it seems, no?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: olddude
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:33 PM

Wesley Nailed it ...
I loved it when I carried an undercover badge, I would watch someone do that in the woods while I was out, then wam it cost them bucks for sure ... I can't stomach people who litter ... it is terrible. And them stupid plastic water bottles they are everywhere in everything no matter how far back in the woods I go, I am sure to run into several ..

makes me nuts

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:41 PM

I live in a rural area, and some people seem to think it's their right to dump their garbage in areas like mine. They'll stop and carefully place a six-pack of empty beer bottles along the road. You'd thing they would just throw them out the window as they finish the beer - but no, they wait until the entire six-pack is finished and leave it there with all six bottle.

They seem to like to leave us televisions and other large appliances, since there's no dump fee for leaving appliances alongside the road. Trouble is, then  I  have to pay the dump fee to get rid of the stuff.

Aaaaargh!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:50 PM

I found a bunch of odd stuff (large items) dumped in the woods...just back behind the front edge of the trees, and the oddest of all was...

An old-fashioned black leather and chrome barber's chair! Someone had to haul the damn thing out of a barbershop somewhere, drive it out into the country, trespass down a private lane about half a mile, and drag it into the woods. There it sits, as if waiting for the next customer to sit down on it and get a shave. There are also some chairs, a chest of drawers, and a couple of standing shelves back there.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: gnu
Date: 13 May 11 - 07:34 PM

Joe six pack... that is their way of helping out the locals who are bottliers. Scattering bottles is littering. Placing a six pack in one spot is a donation.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: ranger1
Date: 13 May 11 - 07:47 PM

The one I love is people who bag their dog waste and then leave the bag. Some toss it on the side of the trail, some try to hide it under fallen leaves, some stash it in the crooks of trees. The best one yet was when someone threw their bags onto the roof of the toilet building. We have a volunteer who walks the trail on Mackworth Island and picks up the litter who refers to looking for bagged dog poo as an "Easter egg hunt".

I'll stop now. As a park ranger, I deal with this kind of thing all the time and I could go on for pages and pages.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Jeri
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:07 PM

Tami, consider writing a book.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 May 11 - 10:25 PM

ObSongs: You'll always find a big brass broken bedstead there (Flanders & Swann).

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 May 11 - 11:44 PM

I recently noticed that the owner of a 2-storey building next to a pedestrian overpass I use occasionally had finally removed all the empty drink bottles etc. from the very enticing hollow in their rooflines & covered it with a small-mesh fence/lid.

My suburb has a lot of pubs & clubs & naturally a lot of rubbish on the streets & in "convenient" places like next door's garden bed. Any time I see a sports car I wonder if the owner will find stuff in his car when he gets back. As it's open 24 hours it also attracts run-aways & addicts.

One morning I saw a man stretched out on the pavement emptying stuff out of a hole where a tree was planted. The tree trunk was a few inches in diameter & the hole was deep & twice that, so he could easily pull out cans & bottles & cigarette packets, which must have been deliberately put there.

I don't what he was looking for - don't know if he did either - & I don't knew if he found it, but he certainly amused the commuters & locals.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: J-boy
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:03 AM

Hey ranger1. Why oh why do they bag shit just to leave it on the side of the trail? Shit unbagged is better than shit left to ferment in a plastic bag. Are they trying to invent a new drug? It drives me crazy. But you knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 14 May 11 - 03:20 AM

There is something weird about people and rubbish.

When I first moved to this area there was an article in the paper about people in a particular "up market" area who didn't like having bin bags left outside their houses so they would drive to the council estate and leave them outside the houses there instead.

My favourite story in a local paper was the guy who took a car load of rubbish, drove to a council estate, and fly tipped it in a grassed area. Somebody followed and found where he lived and then called the council. Rather than prosecuting a truck was sent to clear the site then, after picking up a photographer from the local paper, dumped the stuff back in the guy's front garden and charged him for the privilage. The silly thing was that he acctually drove past a public tip to reach the place where he dumped the rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 05:08 AM

I enjoyed that story Peter C! The piles of paper I am talking about are definitely not a paper chase. (Excuse me for saying so - but I think that is a loutish occupation in itself!) The litter thrower took particular care to ensure that there were particularly large concentrations of torn pieces around the two park benches on the route.
The person, who threw paper handkerchieves weighted with stones, was not part of a paper chase either. You could tell this, because up to a dozen would be hurled into any one thorn tree or bush.
I sympathise with all those who would like to prosecute all litter throwers, but my own experience is that this will not work in the case of low level litterbugs (large scale dumping is another issue). In the case of the walker who just prefers someone else to pick up his cigarette packet, beer can or paper handkerchief, prosecutions and spot fines are likely to cause unnecessary friction with the authorities in the tiny number of cases in which they are caught. The person fined regrets getting caught - not throwing the litter. They feel they have a right to leave rubbish where they want and half a century of litter laws has not yet brought about any real change. If anything, the situation has worsened. I think we are more likely to achieve something if we turn our attention to those who want there to be less litter in green areas. When enough of us do something, instead of simply moaning about the litter throwers, the situation does get better. It is always more effective to improve one's own behaviour than to condemn someone else's.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: gnu
Date: 14 May 11 - 05:56 AM

Jeri... "Tami, consider writing a book."

"Shit Happens"?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 11 - 10:16 AM

"It is always more effective to improve one's own behaviour than to condemn someone else's."

BINGO! That is the lesson that individuals and nations alike must learn (and apply) if they wish to live in a happier and better world.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 11 - 10:39 AM

I do not like the attitude of people who leave their rubbish behind, but I am obliged to respect it...they have as much right to impose their will on the land as I have.

Please tell me this was intended as a joke? RESPECT IT???

I've seldom heard such idiocy- should I say "rubbish" expressed in my life.

I suppose that Big Coal has a right to impose their will on the land thru mountaintop removal and chemical companies have a right to release toxic chemicals into waterways or municipalities the right to discharge untreated sewage?

Or that murders have a right to "impose their will" on their victims?

Jesus wept, no wonder there's no such thing as personal responsibility any longer.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:06 AM

All right Greg, tell me a solution for litter which you think will work. I have not yet seen a place where litter disappeared because people got all hot and bothered about the litter throwers. However, by really wanting a clean area (i.e. actually picking up the litter themselves) I have seen citizens improve formerly dirty areas. Seeing the litter thrower as being the root of the problem is a short sighted and doomed approach to a solution. How much tax do you wish to pay to get enough officials out to enforce anti-littering laws? No I was not joking. Nobody actually dies as a result of littering and most litterbugs are not going to change their minds. I prefer to concentrate on a solution, which I know works. Laws against murder - and to some extent theft - can work because enough citizens are willing to support the enforcement of them. In a perfect world that might apply to littering to, but I can't see much evidence that this will happen any time soon!

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:41 AM

The litterbugs would change their minds if they were banged up in goal for a while or were given a stiff enough fine- all you need is enough citizens willing to support enforcement. And I think there are such, if they get off their arses and step up and complain to the authorities..


When a society not only tolerates deviant, obnoxious, anti-social, harmful and illegal behavior but "respects" it and enshrines it as a "right", we're all in really, really deep shit.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:45 AM

Seeing the litter thrower as being the root of the problem...

By the way, who then IS the root of the problem? A benificent providence? Space aliens?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:46 AM

Joe, I've got an idea for you.

Get some scrap lumber and draw black lines on it (magic marker) to make it seem like nails are protruding from it.

Place the pieces on your lane. Dumpers will see it, think they're gonna lose a tire, and split.

I have found that signs don't stop people from speeding on my street. Neither does the sight of children. But if I lay a big branch on the street and they think it will damage THEIR car, they slow down.

Self-interest. You've got to reach their self-interest.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 14 May 11 - 12:25 PM

I saw a sign erected by a great pile of green waste which had been dumped on a field next to a country lane, which read (approx):

"Would the fucking twat from Number 7 Holly Lane, please stop dumping his crap here!"

That did make us chortle.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 May 11 - 12:57 PM

Perhaps this thread should be renamed "A NyKulturny Class of Litter Throwers.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:00 PM

Even so, alanabit, it was a fatuous remark about "rights", as I am sure better recollections will convince you. Littering is, after all, illegal: breaking the law, however either trivial or unenforceable one might regard a particular law, cannot by definition be anybody's "right", can it?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:18 PM

I wonder Michael. I am willing to consider it. The litterbug certainly feels it to be his right to leave litter and I do not see any realistic prospect of compelling low level litterbugs to change their minds. Neither can I see the majority of the public being willing to pay a level of tax, which would give the authorities the wherewithal to enforce the law.
To reply to Greg's question, which I think is quite reasonable, I can only give the solution, which I came up with myself. He wrote, "Seeing the litter thrower as being the root of the problem...

By the way, who then IS the root of the problem?"

The answer I came up with was ME. The real problem we have in society here - and it starts in schools - is the old failure to distinguish between guilt and responsiblity. They are not the same thing. When the litter thrower leaves his rubbish behind, it is indeed his fault that it is there in the first place. However, if I walk past it once, twice or more times, it is undoubtedly has become MY responsibility to do something about it.

It would be most unfair if some creep left a baby on Greg F's doorstep, but I do not think for a moment that he would simply shut his door and allow the baby to freeze or starve to death. It would not be his fault that the baby was on his doorstep, but it would undoubtedly be his responsibility to ensure that the baby survived its immediate crisis.
If I complain about the litter problem and I fail to do anything about it, I am not just a litter bug, I am a hypocrite. By the way, if you are ever in Cologne, I can show you the paths I regularly walk down. Believe me, they are cleaner than those where the walkers just moan about the litter!

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:19 PM

By the way Michael, congratulations to the Reds on taking the Premier League Championship again today. I bet there will be some sore heads in Manchester tomorrow!

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:31 PM

Why congratulate me on ManU's success, Alan? The Reds I support are Arsenal. I was born in N London, not Lancs.

I agree on everybody's doing what they can to maintain the environment. I invariably pick up the tin cans dropped on the green 50 yards from my gate, take them home, & recycle them. But that doesn't mean that I think the yobbos who dumped them there in the first place are exercising any 'rights' in doing so. They are, I reiterate, breaking the law, and so by definition cannot have any right to the action.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:49 PM

if I walk past it once, twice or more times, it is undoubtedly has become MY responsibility to do something about it.

No, it is hardly your "responsibility" to clean it up - but you may choose, as I have myself done many times, to ameliorate the situation by cleaning up the mess left by irresponsible others.

If you have any "responsibility" to do something about it, it is to do what you can to bring the litterers to book.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:52 PM

Sorry I confused you Michael. I have obviously mixed you up with another poster here, who supports Man U.

I certainly stated my case in provocative terms Michael - and I certainly respect your actions more than those of any litter bug. What I was trying to get across is that it is an absurd fantasy to expect to solve the litter problem by trying to detect and deter low level litterbugs. The only practical solution, which is going have any effect, is for more people to do what you and I do - to pick up the rubbish and accept responsibility for the problem rather than moaning about the actions (or inaction) of others. That is the only sort of behaviour which I have ever seen make a difference.

I am still rather baffled as to how some people can actually invest effort into making a nature reserve dirtier though!

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:55 PM

We shall have to agree to differ on that one Greg. I am not optimistic about ever bringing more than a tiny minority of litterbugs to book. If I thought the majority could be, I might think differently.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 May 11 - 04:25 PM

In Alberta, beer cans and liquor and beer bottles, milk cartons, etc. are worth 5 cents or more each to the one who takes them to recycler. As a result, very few containers of that kind avoid recycling.

Places like Dairy Queen and other drink and fast food spots use cardboard and plastic containers that have no value attached, so they end up scattered around.
Students leaving a primary school near us stop at these places on the way home and buy drinks, dropping the containers when they are empty. Instruction from teaching staff doesn't seem to help.

Some litterers seem to have the habit 'hard-wired' in their genes.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 11 - 05:38 PM

There are definitely a lot of folks around who have an over developed sense of entitlement. But that one is worth a thread of its own!

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 May 11 - 02:45 AM

Indeed, re your last post, Alan. But would not your use above of locution "rights" in relation the these, which you have manifestly declined to disown or withdraw despite objections to it from Greg, me, and others, merely serve to reinforce this "over developed sense of entitlement"?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 15 May 11 - 05:09 AM

You could see it that way, but what I have tried to do is to describe the way of thinking, which I have applied for myself. I can hardly expect everyone else to think the same way.
People who behave with an "over developed sense of entitlement" to litter are a nuisance and an irritation to you and me. Whether we like it or not, they will always be a low priority for law enforcement officials. Large scale dumping, I readily concede, has a far higher priority.
People who have that attitiude when driving cars are considerably more dangerous. It is logical that our authorities invest more effort and resources in trying to restrain them.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 May 11 - 07:25 AM

Yesyesyes to-∞ Alan ~~ but what you so reasonably say is not the same as urging that litter-droppers are exercising actual "Rights" or "Entitlements", is it?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Yvonne
Date: 15 May 11 - 08:17 AM

Alan.

You don't think maybe someone has watched you collecting litter and think it amusing to put some more down?

It certainly does not seem to be just a random drop of litter like a discarded crisp bag or drinks can but litter that has been put purposely in place.

Why not leave your litter collecting for a while and see if what you have described stops?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 15 May 11 - 08:37 AM

It is not a right I am willing to fight for Michael, but that is probably the way the litterbug sees it! A confrontational approach on my part is only likely to make the situation worse.
I have wondered that myself Calling Bird. I do not get out every day anyway, but I should hate to allow our green area to recede back into the state it was in before the light evenings started this year and I resumed picking up the litter.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: BanjoRay
Date: 15 May 11 - 08:46 AM

What I can't stand is the simultaneous release of thousands of balloons, in the name of some celebration or other, which causes joy among the onlookers who don't seem yto have a thought in their heads about the possible consequences. Organized litter launches!
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 15 May 11 - 11:04 AM

A common reason pot growers who grow on public or vacant land get found out is that they'll leave a litter trail. In particular, they'll backpack bags of fertilizer to their growing sites and leave the empty bags behind. It's a whole lot easier for Deputy Dawg to see a big ol' white plastic bag from 1000 feet up than to spot a few foot tall pot plants.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: gnu
Date: 15 May 11 - 02:15 PM

BWL... minds me of the patch up Kent County some years back. The "lads" paid 4 Chinese illegal aliens to grow a patch of THOUSANDS. TAbout 40,000 I think. The RCMP easily spotted the patch from a chopper. They planned and waited. When harvest came, they swooped down in force, took prisoners and spent days cutting down and burning the crop. It was quite an operation which took up a lot of manpower... so the boys could harvest and bring to market their own smaller and scattered patches. And the aliens became "refugees", did time, got their status... fucking unreal.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: C-flat
Date: 15 May 11 - 02:41 PM

Hey ranger1. Why oh why do they bag shit just to leave it on the side of the trail? Shit unbagged is better than shit left to ferment in a plastic bag. Are they trying to invent a new drug? It drives me crazy. But you knew that.

A pet hate of mine (apologies for the pun)!!
The reason many dog walkers go to the trouble of scooping dog shit into a little plastic bag, only to casually throw it aside is embarrassment!!
Embarrassed to be seen by other walkers allowing their dogs to foul the pathways and verges. But no such inhibitions when there's no one in sight!! Just throw the shit-filled plastic bag on the ground or into the bushes causing a worse problem than just having to dodge the mess.
Bloody infuriating small-minded little people!!!
...and breathe.....

Rant over

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: gnu
Date: 15 May 11 - 03:00 PM

Told this one before... but I like it.

The video camera was on the hummingbird feeders at Mum's. On the sidewalk next to Mum's which adjoins two streets an elderly lady stopped and her dog shat on Mum's lawn at the end of Mum's fence. She started to walk away. I asked, loudly, "Excuse me. Are you gonna pick that up?"

Long story short... she said she had not seen the dog take a dump. She became rather verbally abusive. I told her she was rude and obnoxious. She DID pick it up with the plastic bag she was carrying.

A half hour later, her LARGE son arrived and asked me what my problem was in a menacing manner. I said, "Hang on a minute and I'll show you." Played him the video. He apologized and left.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: alanabit
Date: 15 May 11 - 04:50 PM

I read an account of an incident at an English market. A woman was attending with a dog, who proceeded to deposit a large, steaming pile in the middle of the stalls. A stallholder shouted after her, "Aren't you going to clean up after your dog?"
"Certainly not!" replied the woman, "He doesn't clean up after me!"
Apparently the woman was roundly applauded by members of the public.
I guess we have the country we deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Penny S.
Date: 15 May 11 - 05:41 PM

Where I used to live we were dumping distance from McDonalds. Either people would walk along the road eating, and leave the bags etc outside our property, or drive along, stop outside, eat and drink, neatly replace the packaging in the bag and drop it out of the window on the path before driving off.
When McDonalds took over the pub, they put a sponsored bin near our drive, but later the council turned it into a dog bin. They used to do a frequent litter pick, but that has dropped in frequency, and they get a bit peeved if approached to deal with the problem they know they cause. (I used to think the company decided where to put a new outlet by driving round and finding where the gutters had none of their litter in.)
Another problem there was flytipping on vacant land over the road, There was local flytipping from frequently changed flats - dining suites, mattresses, etc. There was drive in flytipping from outside the area - fridges, tyres, builders' waste etc. The council cannot collect the stuff themselves because the land is private. Nor will they contact the owner: they say I should, but I can only find out by using the land registry, which would cost me money. Not satsifactory.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 15 May 11 - 06:22 PM

All we need to do is ensure that a generation of children are raised in homes they can respect and grow up with self respect so they will be able to respect others and their homes ..... This would entail every child having a decent home and decent, caring parents....

Subject: RE: BS: A New Class of Litter Thrower
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 May 11 - 06:25 PM

Apparently the woman was roundly applauded by members of the public.

And there you have it. If people aren't going to stand up for common decency & what's right, then OF COURSE one deserves to put up with the BS perpetrated by morons.

Aren't there laws in England against "Fouling the Footpath"? The idiot woman should have been cited and fined.