BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?

Subject: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 May 11 - 04:35 PM

Has this topic been raised already?
Anyway, talking in the pub today, fellow drinkers were suggesting that the Strauss-Kahn rape allegations are probably an American dirty tricks maneuver to - at the very least - discredit the man and eliminate him from running in the French election.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 11 - 04:45 PM

'probably'?

Wishful thinking... they 'wish' to discredit anything Americans are vaguely connected to. They need to have some idea WHICH Americans would do that before they make suggestions like that.
   I don't suppose they take his past noteriety into account..... and the fact that this woman was a hotel worker who never heard of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM

Why would anybody - Obama in particular - care that much in the first place?

The US has dealt more or less cordially with troublesome allies in the past - President Charles de Gaulle, for example, who pulled France out of NATO at the height of the Cold War.

Obama - or the mystery puppeteers called "They" - would have to assume that Strauss-Kahn would almost certainly be elected (a big if right there) and then decide that if he were, his policies would be intolerable.

And since the pretend "victim" in such a scenario would have to stand up to cross-examination at the trial, they would have to make sure that her story could never, ever lead back to them.

But as we know from all the other conspiracy theories, you can't beat "Them" because they have godlike powers of omniscience and forethought and making sure that nothing ever goes wrong - except that their plots are so clumsy that guys making conspiracy videos in the basement can figure them out.

(And whatever the outcome of thsi case, "They" will have arranged it for their own ever-darkening purposes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:27 PM

I seem to remember some American woman getting herself drowned at Chappaquiddick Island, in a conspiracy to prevent some American chap from becoming president.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:40 PM

What sttuck in MY throat was that , hving hauled him out of the airport he was then paraded through the streets in cuffs , and obviously NOT allowed access to soap , towel and a change of shirt !
Seems carefly calculated to make him LOOK like the sort of person who WOULD assault a hotel Worker

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:41 PM

I'd imagine there'd be an awful lot of money to be made out of setting this up, what with all the repercussions in the finance markets, and it needn't be all that hard to do that.

On the other hand it doesn't seem particularly unlikely. But it needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Trials are supposed to be a way of determining whether people are guilty of stuff they are accused of. They are meant to be about setting a seal of approval on what has been agreed to be true by kind of process of osmosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:45 PM

Dirty French lechers discussed in NY Times OpEd today. The thrust of the piece is that the elite in France are used to taking advantage of women in inferior positions and getting away with it. Over there, who would believe a maid, etc. who challenges a rich lecher? She would be dismissed from consideration.

Now if the US can get ever get their hands on Polansky-

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 11 - 05:53 PM

To avoid any misunderstanding - I don't think the accusation against Strauss-Kahn is implausible.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:00 PM

elite in France are used to taking advantage of women in inferior positions

Or possibly in all sorts of positions.

On the other hand, the U.S. is hardly devoid of rapists- check the statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Gurney
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:13 PM

I half-heard on the radio that the lady involved is not American, but African. Don't know the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:19 PM

LF - I think that was standard procedure for someone on that particular charge?

And other women are on record as having tried to register concerns about DSK's aggressive come-ons. Which were not taken seriously in the French culture, but are in the USA.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:21 PM

Yeah by all means mistrust the woman. She probably gave him a "look" - you know the type. No really means yes. And she probably dressed in an alluring manner - she probably had clothes on. It must have been her fault.

Or you COULD wait for the facts to come out in the trial before you blame the government in fabricating the story.

Most politicians don't need any help destroying their careers.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:28 PM

I'll bet y'all could find a conspiracy in a bowl of corn flakes....

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 11 - 06:52 PM

A nice paragraph-
"France may think that it had a revolution, but in fact it just got a new, and even more powerful elite. They believe themselves so indispensable to the running of the country that trying to topple one of them is a bit like threatening to shoot a prize racehorse for nibbling your lawn. You're meant to shut up and let them nibble."

"French politicians are known to be serial seducers, and as a rule no one bothers them about it. ....... their reputation as "chauds lapins" (hot rabbits), to use the French term, can give them a sense of impunity."

Droit du Dirty Old Men, Stephen Clarke, Paris; The New York Times, May 17, 2011.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 18 May 11 - 07:45 PM

What a load of absolute horseshit! A man with that amount of money and power is gonna chase a maid around a hotel room naked willy nilly??? and "force" her to perform a sex act? Gimmie a fuckin break!

It just gets more strange every day. Nobody seems upset that Baker resigned from the federal regulatory borad overseeing media takeovers and took a job with Comcast... a far worse crime in my mind than a non-existent "rape". Can you say "spin"?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 May 11 - 10:59 PM

I have the solution.   Let's send the OP back to the pub for some more pints. I'm sure that he and his cohorts can come up with a motive for US manipulation of French politics--if they have more to drink.

Just don't know how we'd ever find out just how the US--as the supreme puppetmaster---is pulling strings constantly all over the world--if it weren't for the intellectual giants to be found in British pubs.

But this time don't forget to take LH with you--for the connection to the "oligarchy". And Mr. Bridge for the link to the BA bastard capitalist conspiracy.   Ah yes, and Jack Campin for the Sudetenland parallel.    But don't take Greg F unless you plan to wind up in the gutter after leaving the pub.

Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head himself is blameless in this--after all, he was set up.

Of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:14 PM

I'll wait for the trial. All I know is what's been on the news, and I really don't consider that to be very trustworthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:23 PM

The most glaring problem with a "set-up" theory is that the woman is an observant Muslim. They take chastity VERY seriously. They don't even have premarital sex with their own fiancés, much less consensual sex with strangers.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Janie
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:45 PM

I'm quite content to let a jury decide....

But for you men who immediately leap to the conclusion that it must be a set up, or simply outside the pale of very common male behavior, you may be extraordinary gents (I mean that sincerely) who mistakenly believe the vast majority of men share your values and code of conduct toward women, or you are conveniently blind.

Do men get set-up on occasion? Yes. The Duke Lacrosse case is a good example. But from personal experience and from personal and professional conversations with many women over the years, including many women here on Mudcat, I can assure you that you might be stunned if you were to ever learn the number of women you know who have been sexually assaulted or put in positions where they were reluctant to refuse sexual advances out of fear for their livelihoods.

Some of you might even be in convenient denial of having been sexually coersive, if not assaultive, toward some of the women you have encountered in your own lives.

Many of the posts to this thread are excellent illustrations of why sexual assaults are one of the most under-reported of crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:55 PM

Thank you, Janie!

kat - rape survivor

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 11 - 11:58 PM

A woman has to go through a lot to file sexual assault charges. If they're filed, I tend to believe them.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 May 11 - 12:11 AM

'Though one can imagine the hotel management wringing its hands over offending a VIP customer, there apparently was no hesitation about reporting the alleged sexual attack. According to police sources, "there just was never any doubt." When the police got there, "the whole staff knew." The woman had a good employment record. She is a 32-year-old West African immigrant, a Muslim who wears a headscarf, a single mother and a "hard worker." Sources said that just from her demeanor, the people at the hotel could tell she "had been victimized, and badly victimized."'
Nina Totenberg, NPR

"It's an inspiring story about America, where even a maid can have dignity and be listened to when she accuses one of the most powerful men in the world of being a predator. (A charge that has been made against him before, with a similar pattern of brutal behavior.)
    The young woman escaped horrors in her native Guinea, a patriarchal society where rape is widespread and used as a device of war, a place where she would have been kicked to the curb if she tried to take on a powerful man. When she faced the horror here, she had a recourse."
Maureen Dowd, NY Times

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ringer
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:43 AM

"I have the solution...""

Excellent post, Ron Davies. ROTFLMAO

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:00 AM

I'm with Rapparee on this .... I won't believe anything until he has his day in trial. Hopefully justice will determine the truth.

With that being said ... a good way for the powerful to diminish an adversary is set them up on a sex charge .... Julian Assange comes to mind with this incident ... even if the accused is found innocent their reputation is tarnished for ever.

we are living in a age of lies and deciet.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 11 - 01:36 PM

Janie... well said and sadly too true.

But, I still say a man with that much money and power doesn't chase maids around a hotel room naked in a foreign country. I simply do not believe it happened. If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, fry him.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 11 - 02:10 PM

"If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt"

Now, that's the crux of it, isn't it? Someone of his means and stature can afford a top team of lawyers who will dig up all sorts of mundane facts on the accuser and distort them in a way as to create, in the jurors' eyes, doubt in her integrity. That is the standard formula in these types of cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: pdq
Date: 19 May 11 - 02:20 PM

"If he is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt..."

I think you are confusing the standard for capital murder with that of lesser charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 03:59 PM

Surely the standard of proof for murder is the same as for any other charge - beyond a reasonable doubt? Not "possibly guilty", or even "probably guilty".

The vigorous attempt to deny bail seems a bit grotesque. It seemed designed to ensure that, whether guilty or not, M Strauss-Kahn would be punished.

I note that people seem to assume that the only people why might have a motive to set up a conspiracy in this case would be the US government. I can't see the logic of that assumption. Backers of the present French government might have had a stronger motive to get rid of an opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:03 PM

I agree McGrath regarding the 'denial of bail' ... my initial reaction was "what the hell did he do to piss off the U.S., wouldn't taking away his passport be suffice" ... regardless I also agree that if any country would "set him up" would be France, not the U.S.

but ... let's see how this all turns out.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:16 PM

The inability to extradite Polansky might be one reason for the strong arm on S-K.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:19 PM

Or maybe it's just standard operating procedure for a rape suspect that's a flight risk?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:20 PM

He's out on bail.

Did "They" get him out?

Now he can flee the country, be elected French President on the sympathy vote, and he'll owe "Them" plenty!

Stranger things have happened.

Or have they?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 04:35 PM

The USA appears to have a very lopsided attitude towards extradition...

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 11 - 05:40 PM

Very true McGrath.

If one is looking for conspiracy - if it is related to the French political situation, the Sofitel hotel chain is French owned and unlikely to want a possibly successful allegedly socialist Presidential candidate.


Alternately, the deputy head of the IMF is American and the US powers that be might want to consolidate their control of the IMF with a view to enforcing neocon economics on all those the IMF work with.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:26 PM

So France and the USA hired/compelled the housemaid (described as a devout Muslim refugee from Guinea who's been working there for several years) to frame him on the off chance that he might be elected and do something they don't like. And/or to get him out of the IMF.

Very nice. And since it was set up from the start that he'd be allowed to escape, the complainant doesn't have to testify.

And should he ever figure out what you guys just did, and say anything, he'll be eliminated by a "heart attack" or an "accident."

Of course, this whole scenario is ultimately based on the idea that he can't possibly be guilty.

But wait! He's a billionaire and the maid is dirt poor! Of course he's guilty!

But wait! No billionaire is that stupid, drunk, or high! Of course he's innocent!

So he's either the victim of Them or one of Them. Or he could be both, just not at the same instant. Or neither? I don't quite know how to choose.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:47 PM

Trial.
I also agree with Janie, kat, number 6, and a few others. As for all those who are jumping to conclusions, based on some sort of conspiratorial political 'position'..you can also jump in the lake!

lighter: "But wait! He's a billionaire and the maid is dirt poor! Of course he's guilty!
But wait! No billionaire is that stupid, drunk, or high! Of course he's innocent!
So he's either the victim of Them or one of Them. Or he could be both, just not at the same instant. Or neither? I don't quite know how to choose."

But wait!!..if you order now, we'll double your order!!!

I think that 'lighter's' post is one of his best, as of recent!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:53 PM

Of course, this whole scenario is ultimately based on the idea that he can't possibly be guilty.

Of course it's not - it's based on the possibility that he might not be guilty, and that his conviction would be in the interests of some powerful people.

At this point there is a presumption of innocence. That is the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:04 PM

McGrath of Harlow: "At this point there is a presumption of innocence. That is the law."

Dazz right!

Then again, coming from a Muslim, that could be suspect, as well.
Trial!..(Hope its a fair one!)..and await the outcome..and/or what may come out in it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:44 PM

He's either guilty or he's not. (I.e., he either attacked the maid or he didn't.)

If he's guilty, and convicted, it may be that "some powerful people" would benefit.

But he'd still be guilty.

If he's guilty but escapes punishment, nobody really benefits but him. (And, conceivably, everyone he might have to pay off.)

Neither result would involve a conspiracy, which is what the OP was interested in hearing about.

Also, concerning the French-owned hotel. If They were after him, They wouldn't have to wait till he's in a French-owned hotel.

In fact, if the French hotel people were after him, it would be smarter to frame him in a hotel owned by somebody else, so no one would realize it's the French hotel people who are behind behind it.

But They know that we can figure that out. So They do the opposite. And They know that we can figure that out too. So They do exactly the opposite.

Quite simple, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:42 PM

Warning! Digression-

The Sofitel is the high end of theParis-based Accor group, which has some 4000 hotels in all price ranges in countries around the world. It has some 150,000 employees in 85 countries. Also owns travel companies and a bakery chain.
In addition to its Sofitel hotels in the U. S. it owns the Red Roof Inn chain and Motel 6, possibly others.
Many of its regional chains operate under their own names, making identification of ownership difficult unless one looks them up.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:44 PM

Oh lighter, dear lighter....you're beginning to sound logical, and reasonable!!..What happened?..(wink)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 19 May 11 - 09:20 PM

His room, I hear, cost $3000.00 per night -- good to see the IMF putting their money to good use.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 May 11 - 11:51 PM

Bobad: "His room, I hear, cost $3000.00 per night -- good to see the IMF putting their money to good use."

Figures!....maybe he 'righteously' raped her...according to you post on the other thread!



GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:03 AM

Ahnold the Governator has been in the news again. It seems he had a child by a woman who worked in his house. Very much the sort of thing the old world aristocracy used to do.

Ok, what's the conspiracy with Ahnold?

---

Schwarzenegger thread

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:21 AM

He should have never been elected Governor. Tom McClintock ran against him, and was very open how he would reduce California's budget deficit, and was even accurate!..but Californians, being as they are, just went and voted for a meat-head celebrity!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:53 AM

Ringer got what I was saying.   For some of the other posters however, it seems I perhaps should have headed my post:   ATTENTION:   SARCASM ALERT.

I confess the post was sarcastic.    I indulged in sarcasm for the first time in my life. But I swear on a stack of Das Kapitals that I will never do it again.


That is, the whole post was sarcastic.    Including:   "Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head is blameless in this--after all, he was set up."    Repeat:   that was sarcastic.   And if nothing else, the "Of course."    that followed it should have tipped off the reader.    All readers.   

C'mon, people.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 02:07 AM

Ron Davies: "That is, the whole post was sarcastic.    Including:   "Sure is nice to know, though, that the IMF head is blameless in this--after all, he was set up."    Repeat:   that was sarcastic.   And if nothing else, the "Of course."    that followed it should have tipped off the reader.    All readers."   


Ron, I got your post..and dug it(for once)...including the sarcasm. I had no problem with it, at all..in fact, your sarcasm got the thread off to a more realistic vein!..so....all readers????

Now ya' must really be puzzled....!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:36 AM

Damn! I'm going to have to agree with Fugitive from Sanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:01 AM

Even a broken clock is right..two times a day, huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:19 AM

7 counts of sex crimes. This makes the Assange accusation plae in comparison.

one is attempted rape so apparently he did not have intercourse.

he apparently was accused of trying to get 2 blow jobs in 2 different rooms.

They said they finally got some DNA off the rug. I assume they meant semen.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 20 May 11 - 07:56 AM

Update:

He's out on bail but he isn't going anywhere. He's confined to his home wearing a ankle transmitter under 24-hour guard.

And he has to pay for it: $200,000 a month.

Like everybody else who gets a guard and a transmitter.

Oh, you say, but what if my budget won't cover that next time I'm arrested on similar charges and considered a flight risk?

Then no bail for you in New York State.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:15 PM

I would sooner suspect the president of France. It would be a good way to get this guy out of the running because polls say he would beat the present president.
I'd also wonder how much Sarcosy paid the woman to frame him. His reputation as a sexual predator will hang him with a jury.

When anyone is arrested for any serious crime in the USA, they are taken directly to jail with no thought of allowing them to freshen up for the cameras.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:22 PM

Kendall said ... "they are taken directly to jail with no thought of allowing them to freshen up for the cameras"

The news networks and paper rags love this kind of stuff, makes for great high drama news .... they know people love it, they know the public drools over it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:22 PM

I bet there aren't many NY hotels without semen on the floor.

Particularly if there are "adult channels" on the cable TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:30 PM

... and I bet access to those 'adult channels' was free of charge, included in the exorbitant price of the room.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:42 PM

I don't know if he's guilty or not, but "not guilty" doesn't mean a frameup.

Conspiracy evidence, please.

Of course, since juries want evidence, and the conspirators manage never to leave any (or if they do, other conspirators and dupes "discredit" it) they always win.

So there's really no point in discussing it, unless you just like to keep boosting your blood pressure. Sorry...

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 11 - 02:33 PM

"Interviews and documents paint a picture of the fund [IMF] as an institution whose sexual norms and customs are markedly different from those of Washington, leaving its female employees vulnerable to harassment.
One IMF statement in their rule book says "Intimate personal relationships between supervisors and subordinates do not, in themselves, constitute harassment." Ms Reinhart, formerly IMF's Deputy Director for reaserch... "That sets the stagem I think, for more risk-taking."
New York Times, May 19, 2011, "At I.M.F., Men on Prowl and Women on Guard."

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:16 PM

Motel 6 still has rates by the minute and a discount if you don't get the sheets messed up...........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:35 PM

Yeah, pub talk. Why am I not surprised? By that, or by the sudden appearance of the usual suspects?

Here is an article that covers this kind of behavior by people, particularly men, in powerful positions. Very much to the point.

Psychopaths in powerful positions

And it's not just politicians. Note the behavior of a number of prominent athletes and what they seem to think are their "rights" to have anything (or anyone) they want just because they get paid a lot for being adept at running around a field or arena and butting heads with other guys of their ilk.

Or the poster child for this kind of behavior, actor (!??) Charlie Sheen. He claims that he's different from other men, hence he has extraordinary rights. He tells us that he has "Adonis DNA and tiger's blood." And he demands $1,500,000 per episode for his playing himself (a selfish, lecherous good-for-nothing who will jump anything in a skirt) in the half-hour comedy show, Two and a Half Men.

I personally think the "Half Man" of the title is not Jake the kid, but HIM.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:41 PM

Good to know, Spaw!
(None in western Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:04 PM

"He's either guilty or he's not... If he's guilty, and convicted...
If he's guilty but escapes punishment... Neither result would involve a conspiracy"

I note that Lighter leaves out the other two possible outcomes, that he is not guilty, and is acquitted, or that he is not guilty and convicted.

However in fact, regardless of the outcome of the trial, Strauss-Kahn's role as IMF head and as presidential candidate (generally expected to beat Sarkozy) is finished.

That doesn't of course mean that there has to have been a conspiracy, just that, if there has been a conspiracy, it will have succeeded whatever happens in the trial.

The fact that there are some daft conspiracy theories about should never be mask the reality that an awful lot of things that happen in public life do involve attempts to distort the truth. After all, whenever more than one people seek to distort the truth, that is a conspiracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 May 11 - 09:32 PM

Somewhat interesting how the non-Americans on Mudcat seem to be much more open to conspiracy theories in general than US posters do.

I've read quite a bit on UK plots, e.g., the Gunpowder Plot, and about US plots, e.g. Watergate.   I wonder if UK history, being much longer than US history, therefore has much more scope for conspiracies, and this makes them seem more likely to Britons than to Americans.   It is also of note that conspiracy believers, at least on Mudcat, are lopsidedly left of center. Since the US is fingered often in these conspiracies, perhaps it's partly resentment of perceived US hegemony. It's painfully obvious that Leftists do in fact resent the US as the #1 exponent of capitalism.

This is the only charitable explanation ,for instance, for Richard's general attitude. His aggressive attacks on probably the most powerful black man in the world, starting with his expressed view---, as the world's unchallenged authority on what it means to be black-- that Obama is not black enough, otherwise clearly leave him wide open to the charge of "genteel" racism. No conspiracy here.   Just reading Richard's posts on other threads.



The leftist, anti-American-- or just boozy--theories have nothing to recommend them.
Look, it is pretty clear what has happened here. No woman in her right mind would put herself through what this maid will now have to face--both legally and in her own community. Therefore it is not something she made up.

It's the old story--as noted by other posters already:    abuse of power by a powerful man who fancied himself invulnerable---or who just didn't think.    After all, for his affair with another IMF staffer he got a slap on the wrist. The US was the venue for his crime.    End of US connection.

Sounds like the logical result of the little story we've had before on Mudcat:

Mother bathing her 3 year old boy.   He fondles his balls.

Boy: Mama, are these my brains?
Mother:   Not yet.


But it's certainly true we need more pubs in the US--the theories that come out of drinking are endlessly fascinating.

Just don't expect sense or logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 May 11 - 03:37 AM

Somewhat interesting how the non-Americans on Mudcat seem to be much more open to conspiracy theories in general than US posters do.

I'm not sure that is true but I suspect we (UK) tend to more cynical about or less trusting of "authority" in general. Perhaps (with a couple of notable exceptions here...) we are less likely to see "them" as "whiter than white" or "beyond suspicion".

anti-American

I think there is a fair amount of distrust in America and dislike of some of her foreign policies over here these days. If that's what you mean by "anti-American". I'm afraid I'm one.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 21 May 11 - 04:49 AM

I'm offended by the title of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 11 - 05:49 AM

So far as I can see, there's nothing in principle implausible about Strauss-Kahn being guilty, and there's nothing in principle implausible about this being a conspiracy either. It all depends on information we haven't as yet got.

What is less plausible is the assumption in the thread heading, and in the original post, that any conspiracy would be likely to be on the part of the American authorities. I agree with kendall in thinking the heading needs changing.
............
"...the non-Americans on Mudcat seem to be much more open to conspiracy theories in general than US posters do."

I'd see that as highly questionable. The daftest conspiracy theories seem to flourish in the USA, where polls seem to indicate that an extraordinarily high proportion of people believe, for example, that no one ever landed on the Moon, that their current president is a foreigner, or their last president was responsible for 9/11.

Perhaps Europeans are more liable to assume that as a matter of routine our leaders lie to us. After all, when the records come out a few years later it always seems to be revealed that they did.

Anyway, if Strauss-Kahn is a serial rapist, and this has been hushed up, that is a conspiracy theory too.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 May 11 - 07:17 AM

Now that I think of it, Kendall's right. Suddenly I'm offended.

But it's better than "More American Dirty Tricks."

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 11 - 08:08 AM

A thoughtful and insightful analysis of the affair, highlighting the culture gap between US and France written by former Canadian politician Keith Spicer, now living in Paris:

Culture wars across the Atlantic

"While media fire shots over U.S. 'puritanism' and French 'perversion,' little thought is given to Dominique Strauss-Kahn's alleged victim, writes Keith Spicer"

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 21 May 11 - 11:59 AM

Don Firth and Bobad --

Thanks for the links to those articles. Both are fascinating.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 May 11 - 08:05 PM

Berlusconiesque...
At least it wasn't the Americans being the dirty old man in this one!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:14 AM

I hold to my assertion.   I am talking about Mudcat posters only--not the general population of the US or UK.

How many Mudcat posters have alleged no one landed on the Moon, Obama is a foreigner, etc?

But we have more than our share of gullible/crackpot posters---overwhelmingly left of center.


I'd say the premise of this thread is a shining example.    Any argument?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:21 AM

By the way, sorry I didn't get to the thread again til now.   Had a dress rehearsal Saturday, then the concert (Kennedy Center Concert Hall) yesterday.   Scandinavian music.   


It is clear that on Mudcat the crackpot theorists are overwhelmingly left of center--and seem to also be mostly from the UK.

Admittedly the absence of Riginslinger and a few others helps the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:25 AM

Does anyone remember the political thriller "Z" (1969)?

It has the classic line, "Always blame the U.S.A.! Even if you're wrong!"

Mmmmm! Popcorn!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:30 AM

And "serial rapist".

Nobody here is alleging that.    And that phrase shows the poor reading skills we have grown to accept from leftists here.


And the implication that there must be a conspiracy somewhere in this topic.

After a while it gets a bit pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 08:13 AM

I suppose what seems absurd can depend on ones own position or beliefs Ron.

While I am in no way saying this incident involves dirty tricks or suggesting this is necessarily your position, I do find a position which asserts any nation or people in power ("they") are completely beyond using dodgy means to further own ends rather odd.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 11 - 08:41 AM

The implication of much press coverage is that there are good grounds for suggesting that this is the not the first time that Strauss-Kahn has been alleged to have at least attempted rape. I'm not sure how many times you have to commit a crime for the word "serial" to be appropriate.

"And the implication that there must be a conspiracy somewhere in this topic.

I haven't seen any posts in this thread claiming that a conspiracy to set up M Krauss-Kahn has been proved, or is even particularly probable, merely that such a possibility should not be dismissed out of hand. That is surely a reasonable position, in advance of rather more information than we currently have.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 11 - 08:42 AM

M Strauss-Kahn...

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:05 AM

Thank you, Janie.
Mary, raped at gunpoint and then stalked for years by her rapist's nutcase wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:10 AM

True, but the dodgier the method the riskier and more complicated it is, therefore harder to put into action successfully and more likely to be discovered. That makes it less likely to be used, except, perhaps, in a truly dire situation.

The "dirty tricks" made famous by Watergate were, in fact, discovered - to the ruination of the participants. And that was a relatively limited conspiracy. Other "dirty tricks" of the era were more like injurious practical jokes (stealing a political rival's letterhead for malicious purposes, etc.)

As for Chappaquiddick, glibly mentioned above, see Wikipedia. It lists the various contradictory conspiracy theories. The most obvious explanation is that there was no conspiracy either to kill Mary Jo or to destroy Ted. It was an accident. Unfortunately they happen frequently.

The annoying thing about threads like this is the assumption (by some) that if a conspiracy is conceivable (and when isn't it?), it was probably at work.

And the next step for many is to believe that "probably" means "quite certainly."

In public life and politics, somebody somewhere always profits big-time from somebody else's misfortune. That's life. It isn't enough to start speculating about conspiracies - unless that's just your idea of a good time.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:26 AM

I don't think there is anyone here who has posted to this thread who would disagree that rape is a horrific, violent crime. With that being said we must not let our emotions get the better of us and be haste in our judgment of the accused. Many innocent people have been incarcerated or even executed for rape crimes.

As I previously said let the man have his day in court, and hopefully hopefully justice will determine the truth.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:32 AM

"hopefully justice will determine the truth."

"Justice" can be purchased -- see OJ Simpson.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:37 AM

"hopefully justice will determine the truth."

miscarriage of justice ... see David Milgaard and Steven Truscott

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:43 AM

David Milgaard and Steven Truscott did not possess the financial means of DSK.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:47 AM

So ... what your saying bobad is that if an accused is wealthy they are in all probability guilty, or the accused will buy his innocent?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:54 AM

"what your saying bobad is that if an accused is wealthy they are in all probability guilty"

Huh....how the hell do you get that?

What I am saying is that if Truscott and Milgaard were able to afford a high powered legal team you can bet your bottom dollar that they would have never been falsely convicted.

And I am also saying, as was told to me by a lawyer, "justice" costs money.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:13 AM

no ... what you said is "justice can be purchased"

That itself indicates wealth can make one immune from all charges of guilt in a court of law. I don't necessarily buy that ... the public loves to see the wealthy and high profile individuals put on trial and yes, many cannot buy their way out of justice.

OJ was an example of a Hollywood extravaganza ... sick showcase in itself.

In regards to Milgaard and Truscott ... who knows ... both cases were in small communities where the public was charged with emotion and the subsequent demand for quick resolution and severe verdict applied. In that emotional haste 2 innocent people were charged, and incarcerated. If the accussed were wealthy and brought to court I'm sure they too would have been been sent to jail.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:39 AM

"Justice" can be purchased -- see OJ Simpson.

You mean he paid the trainee police scientist to casually carry his DNA sample around in a lab coat pocket all day and paid the prosecution to use a racist and lying policeman on the stand.

Simpson may have got off but from what I've read, IF he did, I'd say it was through incompetence on the prosecution's side rather than through Simpson's wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:48 AM

I don't think OJ "purchased justice" in the sense you mean.

He had great lawyers, true, whom the average slob could not have afforded.

He also got lucky with disorganized prosecutors and a judge who allowed too much court-room foolishness.   

But even they wouldn't have been enough to acquit him without jurors who kept thinking, "Wait a minute! It's OJ! OJ good! Cops bad!" They might well have acquitted him even if he'd had one run-of-the-mill attorney.

His money certainly didn't protect him in the civil trial, with a different jury, which by fining him millions essentially declared his guilt.

But he never had to pay those millions! Unfortunately true. But that was because of smart money management and California's laws protecting retirement funds and so on, not through any shady doings,

And right now OJ's in prison.

At any rate, it doesn't makes sense to credit OJ's wealth as the cause of his original acquittal. It didn't hurt, but by itself - with a different cast of cvharacters - it probably wouldn't have saved him.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:55 AM

But even they wouldn't have been enough to acquit him without jurors who kept thinking, "Wait a minute! It's OJ! OJ good! Cops bad!"

I don't know about that. Personally think I'd find the evidence too unreliable to find guilty on rather than thinking that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 May 11 - 11:32 AM

"He had great lawyers, true, whom the average slob could not have afforded.

He also got lucky with disorganized prosecutors and a judge who allowed too much court-room foolishness."

exactly ... I agree .... the whole thing was a debacle.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 11 - 12:13 PM

Guilty on a criminal charge means that the jury decides that there is a reasonable doubt. Guilty in a civil court means that the jury decides the defendant probably did it.

There is no contradiction between the two verdicts on OJ. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is a much higher level of proof than "probable". If you are on a jury and you just think the chances are the defendant did it you ought to vote "not guilty".

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 May 11 - 03:38 PM

The DSK controversy brings into focus women's rights. Women are often abused by politicians such as Schwarzegropenegger, John Edwards (yes Elizabeth was abused by this cheating), David Vitter (he abused his wife by making her stand with him while he admitted his cheating publicly) and the notorious Jack the Zipper (Jack Kennedy), Bill Clinton and LBJ.

I'm not clear on whether Julian Assange was a victim of political pressure or that he did violate women. I don't trust the story about his misdeeds in Sweden because the issue is so politically loaded.

This is the problem that politicians have, they do violate women's rights and as a result it is assumed they are probably guilty. The problem is that many Americans and men from other cultures tend to look the other way when these issues come up.

In some Islamic cultures, women are abused if they are raped.

This is a serious offense and should not be whitewashed. I hope the DSK has his time in court and this will be resolved with due process in the American way of jurisprudence.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:47 PM

"should not be dismissed"

As long as sense and logic are not required.


And for an amazing number of our posters left of center, logic and sense are indeed not required.


Please recall the title of the thread.    A hypothesis is raised which is not graced by one shred of evidence.

Or do you really think that the idea of "American dirty tricks" should not be dismissed.

That sort of moral relativism is a perfect example of the leftist fuzzy thinking pilloried so effectively by some columnists in the WSJ--much as it pains me to agree with them sometimes.

It also serves to take the blame off the man who deserves it:   Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

And to trivialize the suffering of the maid.

But perhaps that's just fine by our illustrious posters on the Left.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:54 PM

It also serves to take the blame off the man who deserves it:   Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

I hadn't realized he'd been found guilty already

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:02 PM

if you care to finger somebody else, please do.

Or do you think the crime alleged by the maid did not take place?

Do you think she is lying?   Yes or no.


I have read that Mr Strauss-Kahn's lawyers are thinking of alleging the sex was consensual--as it probably was with the IMF staffer years earlier.   Sorry, in this case it's just not credible.

As I and others have noted it has all the field marks of a familiar pattern:   abuse of power by a powerful man,

If you don't think so, exactly why not?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:08 PM

"AP sources: DNA matches Strauss-Kahn in sex attack"

here

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:24 PM

if you care to finger somebody else, please do.

Why should I care to finger anyone?

Or do you think the crime alleged by the maid did not take place?

Like you say, it is an alleged crime. As such it may or may not have taken place.

Do you think she is lying?   Yes or no.

I don't know.

As I and others have noted it has all the field marks of a familiar pattern:   abuse of power by a powerful man,

If you don't think so, exactly why not?

What I don't think is that even if your observations are true, it does not prove guilt.

What I do know is.

I walked home from the pub one night and was arrested walking into town the following morning on suspicion of rape. A young girl had gone into police station that night claiming she had been attacked and raped by a strange. Part of my route was close to the location of the alleged assault.

I guy walking home after a few beers, I bet has all the hallmarks of some sexual assaults? I bet one could even build up my personality profile for a better fit?

Even though she confessed she had made the whole thing up and I was cleared completely, I'll tell you something else Ron. You know there is no smoke without fire is there?

No Ron. Unlike you, I am not prepared to deliver my own verdict of guilt on this. Apart from trying to keep an open mind on this case at the moment, I know only to well what it is like to be falsely accused to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:48 PM

Jon, did you see Bill's post?    I'm sorry you were arrested. I know there are times the police overreact, for instance. But this situation is vastly different from yours--as is becoming ever more clear.

And the thread topic is the connection of Mr. Strauss-Kahn with "American dirty tricks".    Do you perhaps think that American dirty tricks are also responsible for the alliance between the Tories and the Lib-Dems?   And for Tony Blair going along with GWB on Iraq? Etc. Just how paranoid are you--- and others on the Left--- of American power?



Mr. Strauss-Kahn had said that women were one of 3 factors which might keep him from defeating Sarkozy.   He should have cited his own urges.

Most people--including lots of Americans--are willing to accept that the French way of life might well include affairs.    But even the French draw the line at rape.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 10:51 PM

And the thread topic is the connection of Mr. Strauss-Kahn with "American dirty tricks".    Do you perhaps think that American dirty tricks are also responsible for the alliance between the Tories and the Lib-Dems?   And for Tony Blair going along with GWB on Iraq? Etc. Just how paranoid are you--- and others on the Left--- of American power?

You are asking some very strange questions Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 11:04 PM

But to attempt to answer anyway.

I think Tory Lib-Dem was purely our own doing. I voted Lib-Dem and was quite pleased when they were sharing power as I thought they would tame some of the Tory's ideas. I do feel very let down the way it's turned out but I'll probably still vote Lib-Dem next time as I neither fancy Labour or the Tories.

GWB and T Blair. I do believe that we will jump when America says so.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 11 - 11:10 PM

I'll probably still vote Lib-Dem next time as I neither fancy Labour or the Tories.

That and I'd imagine unlike a number of other lib-dem voters who will probably return to either Lab or Tory, I still hope (probably in vain but...) to break away from the situation of only two parties in the running for first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:37 AM

Ron Davies has made up his mind. I think it is better to wait till the facts are known before making up the mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 May 11 - 01:15 PM

Leaks of evidence?
DNA evidence, semen found on the housekeeper's uniform.- France 2, Guardian, reuters, Wall Street Journal etc.

Police deny any release of evidence before the trial- Al Jazeera.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:11 PM

Report: Friends of former IMF chief tried to bribe assaulted maid's family

By Kase Wickman
Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 -- 2:10 pm

Former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn may have spent the last week and a half behind bars and under house arrest since he allegedly tried to rape a hotel maid in New York on May 14, but associates of his have been busy on his behalf.

The New York Post reports that friends of Strauss-Kahn traveled to Guinea and offered the victim's family money to make the case go away.

The victim has been well-hidden by prosecution, so the friends went to her family's impoverished village home instead.

"They already talked with her family," a French businesswoman with close ties to the Strauss-Kahn family allegedly told the Post. "For sure, it's going to end up on a quiet note."

"The woman will get a lot of money," she reportedly told the paper.

The average family income in Guinea is $45 per month, and the maid's family allegedly did not know anything about the incident involving their daughter until reporters came to ask them about it.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/24/report-friends-of-former-imf-chief-tried-to-bribe-assaulted-maids-family/

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:22 PM

Thanks for posting that, bodad.

I think the person who wrote the opening post--and the title of this thread--needs to spend a little less time with his nose in a pint and get his ducks in a row before he starts blasting away.

There seems to be a lot of that going on lately.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:34 PM

"DNA evidence, semen found on the housekeeper's uniform."

That does not prove attempted rape.

Am I missin sommat here?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:10 PM

One paper said on the collar. This would possibly indicate oral sex.
However, where these reports are coming from and their validity is unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:17 PM

There are times when public inquiry is closed down, and rumours are all we have, and it makes sense to look at them and try to estimate whether they are to be believed or not.

But this isn't such an occasion, and there's a public trial lined up in the glare of publicity. There's no place for rumours, and they should be disregarded and mistrusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 11 - 12:27 AM

"there's no place for rumors".

Brilliant.

So let's start with the rumor--or rather delusion-- that "American dirty tricks" have the slightest thing to do with the incident involving Mr Strauss-Kahn.

Kevin, you say the connection with "American dirty tricks" should not be dismissed out of hand.

Sorry, you are in danger of losing your status as a level-headed commentator unless you either   1)    dismiss that possibility or
             2)   come up with some actual evidence to back it up.

Now.

Or do you want to reserve the possibility that every half-baked theory you hear on politics is true---particularly when the US is cast as the evil puppeteer?

Hence my question earlier:   just how paranoid are UK leftists?

Sorry, I tend to dismiss out of hand anything which is supported by not one shred of evidence --and seems to originate in the boozy ramblings of a few pub denizens.

Do you have no standard whatsoever for evidence?

And if you tell me we will never know about the possible role of US dirty tricks in this incident til long after the verdict on Mr. Strauss-Kahn has been issued by the court, that will give me the answer on the paranoia question.

I will be happy to revise my view when any poster can come up with even an iota of actual evidence that "American dirty tricks" have anything to do with the incident involving Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

Thus far, requests by me and others for said evidence have been met by a deafening silence.

Which speaks volumes.

But also has not resulted in any of our UK friends on the Left recognizing the "American dirty tricks" theory for the total rubbish that it is.

Which also speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:06 AM

..Or a plot from the Muslims??..after all, OBL just got wasted, why not strike back at the head of the IMF?..just send out a 'suicide blow-jobber'...under Muslim law, she might be doing it in the name of 'Allah'...and therefore MIGHT escape the death penalty, for having sex with a non Muslim!....

...Or another case of another as-brained pro globalist banker, repeating the words from another pro-globalist banker stooge, "I did not have sex with that woman"...or "Whatever is is"..at least OBL had five wives and jerked off a lot to porno....and then had at least 72 virgins awaiting him!!

...or like I said before, these guys are all the same...and I'm sure some others come readily to mind!!

American dirty tricks??....jeez, why do that?..they already own our government, and have all their lackey banker buddies filling about every cabinet post for several administrations, and now their boy was going to run for the presidency of France....while Britain's leadership is pretty much bought out, and paid for....

....or maybe he was just an arrogant asshole.....

...does it matter? The real culprits are those globalist bankers, in our governments, who 'persuade' our leaders to push their agendas, over and regardless of the will of the people who they were elected to represent....while selling us a bad bill of goods, and masking it with political, partisan 'policies'...just to keep the appearance that these are really 'just political differences'!!!

I hope that through all this, a lot more stuff will come out...but not particularly the details of a blow job gone awry!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:18 AM

I think it is quite likely that M Strauss-Kahn is guilty of what he is accused of, and I have said so several times. However I also think there is a reasonable possibility that there may have been a set-up organised by people wishing to destroy him. (I don't see "American dirty tricks" as a likely source of any such set-up.)

I dislike any tendency to rush to judgement. We haven't seen the relevant evidence, and shouldn't fill in our ignorance with rumours.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 11 - 12:51 PM

Bloomberg (May 24, "Force Evidence May Hurt Strauss-Kahn Defense," Freifeld and Farrell) reports "Evidence that Dominique Strauss-Kahn's encounter with a hotel maid may have involved force, including reports of blood at the scene, might damage any defense contention that she consented, ......"

Trial in the press before the court trial?
No date has been set. Following the Grand Jury indictment on seven counts, a jury trial is likely.

This may be a Fall television special.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:01 PM

No, Q. "Damages" would be trial in the press. "Might damage" is idle speculation.

Anyway, OJ was "tried in the press" too. Didn't hurt him a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:02 PM

Well if he likes 'forced sex' that much, maybe they'll send him to a place where he can get his share of it...at the other end of it!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:12 PM

Associated Press, May 25, ("Ex-IMF chief may use tried, tricky consent defense")- "With his DNA discovered on the woman who accused him of trying to rape her and forcing her to perform oral sex, former International Monetary Fund chief... may employ a consensual sex defense that poses risks for defendants and prosecutors alike.
............"If Strauss-Kahn ultimately acknowledges sexual contact with the woman, jurors will be left to analyze a tricky "he-said, she-said confrontation, legal experts say.
"They're really difficult cases because, by their very nature, nobody else is there," said Brenda Smith, an American University Washington College of Law professor who has studied sexual violence."
.......... "Prosecutors say he chased down the cleaner in a penthouse suite, groped her, tried to pull down her pantyhose and forced her to perform oral sex."
...... "Strass-Kahn's DNA was matched Monday with material on the maid's uniform shirt, two people familiar with the investigation told the Associated Press."
.........."The 32-year-old woman immediately told hotel staffers and then police, providing "a compelling and unwavering story" supported by findings from a physical exam, Manhattan assistant district attorney John "Artie" McConnell told a judge....."

Ladies and gentlemen of the Mudcat jury, have you joined a "Rush to Judgement"?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:22 PM

Someone who's been granted asylum in the US might not protest as vigorously as some of the women DSK had previously come on to?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:29 PM

You seem to be assuming that the jurors who are selected by the opposing attorneys to hear the case will be so inflamed by what they've heard or read (assuming that they care, or will remember it by the time the case goes to trial) that they'll just ignore the testimony of witnesses.

Not likely. But we'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:39 PM

lighter: "Ladies and gentlemen of the Mudcat jury, have you joined a "Rush to Judgement"?"

Nope!..I laid out several scenarios....and here's another, "With all the money and influences DSK has, the possibility of buying his way out of it, even so far as paying off the woman and/or her family is also in play....and frankly, being as the woman is Muslim, the possibilities are wide open, as to what happened, and why.
See my earlier posts!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 11 - 02:34 PM

Don't blame Lighter for that "Rush to Judgement" comment. Twarnt he.

Jeffrey Shapiro and Associates LLC are representing the plaintiff.
They specialize in personal injury law practice, including abuse.
"The firm is staffed by a complete team of lawyers and paraprofessionals with many years of experience..."

Banjamin Brafman, Brafman & Ross, P.C., represents the accused.
"Our entire staff is dedicated to helping clients with their legal matters regarding:
Criminal Trial and Appellate in the Federal and State Courts Civil Trial.....
Constitutional Law
Forfeiture Law.

Should be an interesting matchup.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:25 PM

>being as the woman is Muslim, the possibilities are wide open, as to what happened.

Of course the possibilities are wide open, but being a Muslim wouldn't seem to have much to do with it.

Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:58 PM

It would appear someone is feeding the press rumours, as generally happens. In due course actual evidence will be presented, and that might be a more sensible time to speculate.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:53 PM

lighter: "Of course the possibilities are wide open, but being a Muslim wouldn't seem to have much to do with it.
Please explain."

Let's try this again: "GfS: 'Nope!..I laid out several scenarios....and here's another, "With all the money and influences DSK has, the possibility of buying his way out of it, even so far as paying off the woman and/or her family is also in play....and frankly, being as the woman is Muslim, the possibilities are wide open, as to what happened, and why.
See my earlier posts!"

Here, follow the yellow brick road........>>>

>>>>...........From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:06 AM

Does that help?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:36 PM

A GfS scenario?
A fatwa will be pronounced, stone both participants to death. S-K for sullying a Muslim woman, the woman for permitting herself to be sullied. Globalist bankers, whatever they are, will cast the stones.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:44 PM

Oh. A joke. Yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 11 - 07:57 PM

Well.... Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 11 - 09:03 PM

I'm sorry, a "set-up" by anybody in this case just strains credulity too far.

It's fascinating that--still--- nobody has come up with a remotely plausible suggestion.   This strongly implies that anybody who does not want to dismiss the "set-up" idea is just trying to protect his own ego.

"Guest from", you don't really expect us to accept any of your wacky ideas as plausible, I hope--for anything but comic relief.




Look at this guy's history--among other things, several years ago an interview with a good looking young woman journalist turned out to be, according to her, attempted rape.   Good start:   he had her meet him in an apartment which had just a bed and a videocamera.    Then he insisted on her holding his hand while conducting the interview.

And how's this for perfect irony:    the book she was interviewing him for was to be on the worst mistakes of politicians.    I suspect he could come up with a good candidate for the book now.



But it's by no means clear that he deserves to have the loaded phrase "serial rapist" brought up. Anybody who does that should know it poisons the well rather effectively--- therefore that person forfeits his right to wrap himself in the flag of presumed innocence. Even if denied later, it's a classic Dick Cheney approach---wonderful propaganda just to raise the possibility in the reader's mind.

As educated people, we should know the power of words--specifically how propaganda works.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 11 - 09:04 PM

Particularly educated people who have recently lived through the Bush-Cheney era.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 10:50 PM

Ron Davies: "Guest from", you don't really expect us to accept any of your wacky ideas as plausible, I hope--for anything but comic relief."

Well, if that works, it's OK with me..i thought it to be a bit of cynicism. Frankly, I don't give a damn about him or her, as to their motives. Was merely pointing out all the possibilities, and in the end...who gives a damn?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 26 May 11 - 08:41 AM

Mudcat gives a damn.

128 posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:25 PM

lighter: "Mudcat gives a damn. 128 posts."

You mean 'opinions'?..or damn opinions?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:00 PM

i just thought it was fascinating how otherwise very intelligent and articulate people seemed desperate to reserve the possibility that "American dirty tricks" were behind the encounter of Mr. Strauss-Kahn and the maid.    Despite precisely zero evidence to support that theory.

I could see that pubgoers might come up with this idea.    But for people not imbibing at the time of writing, it's remarkable that a thinking person would even want to consider this conspiracy theory.

However it's certainly true that conspiracy theories of various flavors have been popular on Mudcat for quite a while. I even started a thread awhile ago to try to examine possible reasons for some Mudcatters' delight in conspiracy theories.   Maybe I'll resurrect that thread----particularly since i've recently run across an possible explanation which makes a lot of sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:16 PM

As to the thread title: I really doubt American tricks of any kind. I don't think we as Americans have a dog in the fight, plus we have a high level of ignorance regarding French politics, or should I say, ahem, affairs.

As to whether or not Strauss-Kahn can get out of it, not very long ago an American got out of shooting two Pakistanis via a "blood" payment. Maybe we can inaugurate some kind of similar principal.

Your job, come up with a suitable name for this . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:43 PM

And please try to come up with something more original then "———gate."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 26 May 11 - 10:20 PM

Strauss-Kahn's lawyers threaten to 'undermine' maid's credibility

By Agence France-Presse
Thursday, May 26th, 2011 -- 7:32 pm

NEW YORK – Defense lawyers for Dominique Strauss-Kahn say they have information which could "gravely undermine" the credibility of the New York hotel maid accusing the former IMF chief of trying to rape her.

The threat appeared in a long letter from attorneys William Taylor and Benjamin Brafman to Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance in which they complained about what they said were "continual" leaks by police aimed at damaging their client's case.

Responding, the DA's office said in a letter Thursday it was "troubled" by the threat about damaging information on the maid and said: "We are aware of no such information."

According to Taylor and Brafman, "we could now release substantial information that in our view would seriously undermine the quality of this prosecution and also gravely undermine the credibility of the complainant in this case," the letter said.

No further information was given about the nature of the information, but the mention raised new tensions ahead of a June 6 court hearing when Strauss-Kahn is expected to plead not guilty to the sex assault charges.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/26/strauss-kahns-lawyers-threaten-to-undermine-maids-credibility/

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 26 May 11 - 10:53 PM

>"we could now release substantial information...

"Could" means they proably won't, or else they'd be doing it. Which means there may not be any at all. Why should we assume there is?

The lawyers aren't in a courtroom and they're not under oath. They're representing their client (i.e., saying exactly what he'd say if he'd thought of it, if not more). They're trying to counterbalance the prosecution's leaks with their own spin.

They're just striking back with zero risk to the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:07 PM

The most likely way I would think Strauss-Kahn might get out of this is if the maid, as a modest, faithful Moslem probably unused to talking to large groups of people--much less about something so intimate and shaming in her eyes--and probably also those of her community-----decides she just can't face giving the necessary excruciatingly detailed testimony to a room full of people--i.e. a courtroom.

Hope that doesn't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 May 11 - 03:43 PM

Benjamin Brafman and his team of defense lawyers are complaining about the leakage of information (by police and prosecutor?).

There will be a lot of pre-trial jockeying, aimed at influencing the judge and prospective jurors.

Jurors are selected from those who claim that they haven't read, heard or discussed the case- nonsense, of course, in this day of excess media coverage of everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 11 - 03:48 PM

That kind of thing is illegal over here in England. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but people doing it taking a risk, and it isn't on the same scale by a long way. Lawyers aren't likely to risk doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 09:15 PM

NEW YORK — Ex-IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn initially tried to claim diplomatic immunity when he was arrested over the attempted rape of a hotel maid, official police transcripts revealed Thursday.

The transcripts, released by the prosecution, showed that when Strauss-Kahn was being led by police from his first class seat on an Air France flight on May 14, some of his first words were: "I have diplomatic immunity."

Later when taken downtown, Strauss-Kahn relented when asked if he had some kind of diplomatic status, saying: "No, no, no. I am not trying to use that, I just want to know if I need a lawyer."

The International Monetary Fund, from which Strauss-Kahn later resigned as managing director, said days after his arrest that immunity did not apply in the case because he had been on private business during his stay in New York.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/16/strauss-kahn-tried-to-claim-diplomatic-immunity/

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:04 AM

Oh dear!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Cynical K
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:12 AM

Get Bernstein and Woodward on the phone!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:01 AM

Case against IMF chief 'near collapse'
New York Times says prosecutors discover issues involving accuser's asylum application and possible criminal links.
Last Modified: 01 Jul 2011 04:32

Strauss-Kahn pleaded not guilty at Manhattan Criminal Court on June 6 as hotel workers protested outside [Reuters]

The sexual assault case against Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the former chief of the International Monetary Fund, is near collapse, US media reports say.

Quoting well-placed law enforcement officials, the New York Times said prosecutors had met Strauss-Kahn's lawyers on Thursday and the parties were discussing whether to dismiss the felony charges against him.

Although forensic evidence showed there had been a sexual encounter between Strauss-Kahn and his accuser, a hotel maid, the latter had repeatedly lied and prosecutors did not believe much of what she had said.

Sources told the New York Times that the prosecutors had discovered issues involving the asylum application of the hotel maid, a 32-year-old Guinean woman, and possible links to criminal activities, including drug dealing and money laundering.

The prosecutors had discovered that several individuals, including a man now incarcerated for possessing 180kg of marijuana, had made multiple cash deposits, totalling around $100,000 into the woman's account over the last two years.

The deposits were made in Arizona, Georgia, New York and Pennsylvania, according to the paper. But it added that the woman said she knew nothing about the deposits.

The paper reported that the woman had a phone conversation with the incarcerated man within a day of her encounter with Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him. The conversation was recorded, but the paper did not name the person who did the recording.

Strauss-Kahn's attorney, Benjamin Brafman, said his client would go back to court on Thursday to ask for relaxed bail conditions. It is expected that he will be allowed to travel freely in the United States but not abroad. He has been confined to an apartment in Manhattan while awaiting trial.

Strauss-Kahn, 62, was arrested on May 14 in New York on charges of sexual assault. He resigned from the IMF on May 19 and pleaded not guilty on June 6, vehemently denying the allegations. If convicted, he faces up to 25 years in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:32 AM

Quite a disappointment for you then, bobad, as it must also have been for the brainlessly prejudiced Ron Davies. And if the case does collapse, as now seems inevitable, you might like to note, bobad, that it was not DSK's team of expensive lawyers that dredged up "all sorts of mundane facts on the accuser" but the prosecuters.

I have refrained from posting earlier in this thread because of its ridiculous starting premise and unwarranted title. But I would be interested to know if American Mudcatters are entirely sanguine about a custom whereby innocent people are paraded before the news media in handcuffs, to prejudice public opinion and allow the likes of Ron and bobad to wallow in schadenfreude (the "perp walk" as I think Guiliano enshrined it).

Leadfingers made a highly valid point near the top of the thread. Those who ignored or dismissed it might like to read it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:29 AM

My god! Dirty Tricks, Dirty Tricks, DIRTY TRICKS!! Mission accomplished!!
We are now well passed the point where naivety must be reclassed as stupidity!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:36 AM

The "perp walk" undoubtedly serves to prejudice the public against high-profile defendants - the only ones likely to appear in such circumstances.

Unfortunately from that point of view, courts have ruled that it would be an unconstitutional abridgment of freedom of the press to prohibit news media from photographing a suspect in custody while in a public place, as when being walked from a police vehicle into a station house for arraignment

Contrary to what some might wish to believe, the "perp walk" was not dreamed up by American prosecutors, and certain limits have been placed on it - mainly that suspects must not be moved around in public unnecessarily. It is also true, though, that police have often alerted the media to the time of arraignment to facilitate the filming. This too appears to be protected as freedom of speech and press, because few wish to encourage the secret arraignment of suspects.

France can justly claim the moral high ground in the perp-walk debate because press and speech freedoms there are narrower than in the United States. (It is a crime in France to "insult" the flag, for example; in the U.S., anti-flag-burning legislation has never passed Congress.)

Regardless, it's still true that jurors in criminal trials are carefully instructed that defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty on the basis of courtroom evidence only. The defense in every criminal case gets to deliver its summation last, a disadvantage to the prosecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:49 PM

Correction: the defense in an American criminal trial replies to the prosecution's summation, but the prosecution gets to respond to the defense summation.

Meanwhile, surprising new developments:

http://news.yahoo.com/strauss-kahn-free-house-arrest-charges-stand-154714378.html

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:08 PM

Regardless of the woman's history, the physical evidence supports a charge of rape against Strauss-Kahn. What aspect of "rape" do some of you fail to comprehend?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:37 PM

What aspect of "Dirty Tricks" don't you understand?
From the word go, this whole rape thing didn't ring true.
Powerful people wanted Strauss-Kahn discredited, and, guess what - they've succeeded!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:32 PM

Tunesmith, there's something you don't understand.

Let's assume you're right that DSK is innocent, which is at least a possibility. (Unless Charley Noble knows something that the rest of us don't, the only evidence against him is the word of a woman the district attorney thinks a liar.) His innocence would go nowhere near proving dirty tricks by powerful people, whether American or any other nationality. The fact that you can conceive of no other explanation suggests a severe lack of imagination, and that's putting it at its kindest.

Perhaps, in view of your gullibility, you should be more careful in choosing your fellow drinkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM

Peter K, what world do you live in?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:22 PM

If the charges are dropped for lack of evidence and/or the poor credibility of the alleged victim (and they haven't been), DSK won't stay very discredited for long.

Every media source in Europe will shout that the Americans tried to frame him but failed. That will boost his popularity in some circles.

If this is an example of "dirty tricks," it seems like a uniquely pointless and inept one designed to produce completely random results. In other words, it's indistinguishable from no conspiracy at all.

No matter how the case turns out, there will be Mudcatters declaring that it was obviously some kind of conspiracy.

Also worth remembering: "credibility" isn't the same as "truthfulness." "Credibility" is what sways juries.

The alleged victim may well be telling the truth, but her history could make it impossible to persuade a jury that the event happened as she claims - especially since defendant DSK is presumed innocent. Under the rules of evidence, the prosecution has also had to inform the defense of their discovery that she may have seriously falsified an income tax return.

The prosecution, of course, is trying to put DSK in jail.

Reality is complicated, isn't it? Not much like movies and TV, or so I'm told.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:55 PM

Well, if Strauss-Kahn becomes president of France - as most experts thought he would have before the rape allegation - then that would knock holes in the dirty tricks theory, but if he doesn't ...
But either way, something smells very off to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:07 PM

"brainlessly prejudiced".

Temper, temper, little man.

Interesting, Peter.    You describe me as "brainlessly prejudiced" yet you agree with me that nothing establishes US dirty tricks are behind DSK's arrest.   I suppose that makes you a fellow brainless commentator.    Welcome!

Gee, I wonder if your phrase could possibly be due to bitterness from another thread. I suppose we'll never know.

Recent developments also do not establish DSK's innocence, you might possibly note--only that his accuser has credibility problems.   But whatever it takes to get DSK off, right?
We'll see how it goes from here.    I wouldn't wager on any particular outcome--but as I said earlier, it may well depend on if the maid is willing to give detailed testimony in court.

Irony on irony. I am defending a powerless woman against a powerful man.   That might well be the typical leftist position. Guess that makes me a bleeding heart pinko leftist--truly a strange sensation--and those on the other side heartless capitalist reactionaries. Or maybe running dog imperialists---or whatever jargon you care to use.

I'm sure you have your favorites.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:35 PM

"There's something nasty in the woodshed."

That about sums it up.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:02 AM

Every media source in Europe will shout that the Americans tried to frame him but failed.

I'd think that would be highly unlikely. Far more likely that any theories about this being a politically motivated set-up would be directed at political opponents in France. Or of course that it was a Badger Game involving a Dirty Old Man.

All very seedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:40 PM

However it behooves all Mudcatters--and all sentient beings--to treat these "frameup" allegations--frameup by anybody-- with all the respect they deserve--and no more. And to not add to pointless dark amorphous speculation---unless you are thinking of employment by the tabloid press.

The burden is clearly on those who allege a frameup to come up with--even a shred--of evidence.    Thus far, none, except in the minds of imaginative boozers.

It's a seedy affair--but one likely only between DSK and the maid.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:46 PM

Shreds of evidence are a good idea before alleging anything. That's what trials are for, to examine the shrediness of evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM

Exactly.   And thus far those who allege a frameup--by anybody--have come up with precisely zero evidence.   As I and others have said more than once.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:23 PM

But the same is true of the allegations of rape, until these have been properly examined in the course of the investigation and trial.

Allegations without evidence are better regarded as speculations. At times interesting, but always to be treated with extreme caution.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:28 PM

Bloomberg: 1 July 2011:    Former sex crime prosecutor Anne Bremner:   I would drop this case and I think it should be dropped.

She obviously feels the credibility issues of the maid are fatal to the case.

If so, we may never find out if the crime was committed or not--just that it was an unwinnable case.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

But if it was a stitch up by very professional people, one wouldn't expect any evidence!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:47 PM

That was said earlier in the thread--that's the eternal joy of conspiracy theorists--they can always allege the coverup was an essential part of the conspiracy.   So logic and evidence need never play a role.





As far as allegations of rape;   obviously each case is different. In this case, however, his history is clearly one that would lend credence to allegations of the maid--and this has been true for quite a while to anybody who reads about him.

The chances however seem to be that her credibility is so shaky due to other factors that the case will fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 05:00 PM

...his history is clearly one that would lend credence to allegations of the maid...

True enough - but of course that is the very thing that would have made this a viable way of discrediting him. It's a stick that points both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 05:11 PM

Latest:

http://news.yahoo.com/accusers-lies-jeopardize-dsk-case-experts-071029981.html


CNN reports that the following day the maid told a convicted drug-dealer "boyfriend" words to this effect: "Don't worry. I know what I'm doing. This man has a lot of money." She didn't know that all phone calls to prison inmates are recorded.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM

Now we'll see if her deposits matter more than his!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

"a viable way....." There is a long history of powerful men exploiting powerless women--gee, I sound like a traitor to my sex but it's obviously true.    It was a very plausible theory from the start that this fit that pattern.

And indeed this theory has not been destroyed.    Her credibility is shattered.    But as my Jan has told me, the maid's behavior at the time of the incident is perfectly in keeping with how a woman in her situation--knowing there are skeletons in her closet which will likely come out--might well behave.    Her default setting might well have been to continue doing her job, while deciding what she could do about the attack.

So she made the wrong decision in a possibly criminal case, it seems. Then she made some more bad decisions. Won't be the first person or the last to do so.    Some have been far more sophisticated and still made wretched decisions.    Mr Weiner comes immediately to mind.

As has been recently noted: don't attribute to evil what can be explained by incompetence.

And if somebody assures you "I know what I'm doing", that's a good indication it may well not be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 04:51 PM

Strauss-Kahn appears to be off the hook for a trial at this point. One needs a credible witness and the chamber maid's no longer fits that bill. It's still not clear to me how convincing the physical evidence of rape is but the chamber maid's credibility would never survive cross-examination on the witness stand.

Strauss-Kahn will never entirely clear his own name in this case but public opinion in France is more indulgent with regard to sexual acts than here in the puritanical States.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:12 PM

"It's still not clear to me how convincing the physical evidence of rape is..."

I heard her lawyer say that there was photographic evidence of bruising of her vagina which is consistent with forced or rough sex but now with the questions about her credibility it will be difficult to convince a jury.....tough call.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:57 PM

"Strauss-Kahn will never entirely clear his own name in this case but public opinion in France is more indulgent with regard to sexual acts than here in the puritanical States."

Is it really? Or is there just a difference in who we revere? The Kobe Bryant case comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 08:39 PM

Bodad-

"I heard her lawyer say that there was photographic evidence of bruising of her vagina which is consistent with forced or rough sex"

Yes, I also heard her attorney say that. I'm not sure what medical experts would conclude in their testimony at trial.

I doubt if there was a larger conspiracy, but that certainly can't be ruled out at this point.

One would think that a world renown international banker would know better than to indulge in gratuitous sex with someone he didn't know but maybe that's how the international money market is run.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM

>One would think that a world renown international banker would know better than to indulge in gratuitous sex with someone he didn't know....

Are you kidding?   

And according to the New Yorker a few weeks back, many of his Parisian associates say that he isn't just an ordinary womanizer, he's "sick."

Or are these reports just part of the "conspiracy"? (I'm starting to lose track of who's supposed to be conspiring against whom and for what.)

Conceivably the maid thought she could somehow get him to pay her off big-time to drop the charges. It wouldn't work - if the State of New York decides to go to trial, it wouldn't matter what she does. If she suddenly refused to testify, she'd be open to perjury charges for lying under oath to investigators.

Not that she necessarily knows that - or that she isn't really a victim (see paragraph one).

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 11:57 AM

Another perspective:

Rape Isn't Funny: On Making Excuses For Dominique Strauss-Kahn and Blaming the Alleged Victim

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 02:11 PM

Strauss-Kahn Faces New Sexual Assault Complaint
by The Associated Press, July 4, 2011

A French woman novelist and writer came to interview Strauss-Kahn and he proceeded to jump her bones.

CLICKY

Considering this guy's history and the trail of assaulted women he's left behind him, along with the fact that he can't seem to control himself, he's got to be a sex maniac.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 02:32 PM

What a load of shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 03:11 PM

gnu, you may very well be missing something here.

It seems to be endemic among many rich and powerful men that because they are "Alpha Males" in the world in general, any woman that they deign to find attractive should be more than happy to be the recipients of their seed. With some, it never seems to occur to them that it could be otherwise, and when the woman resists, they assume she's just being coy.

Note the number of rich, famous, and powerful men (politicians, businessmen, athletes, actors, ) that are regularly caught in sex scandals. And many of these sex scandals involve forcible sex.

The more I hear about Strauss-Kahn, the more he sounds like the Charlie Sheen of the financial world.

"SURE, women want to sleep with me! I have tiger's blood and Adonis genes!!"
                                                                                                    —Charlie Sheen

He recently got his ass canned from "Two and a Half Men" (a weekly half-hour TV comedy) for demanding $1,500,000 per episode. "I'm worth it!" he insisted.

"No, you're not!" responded CBS.

Both Charlie Sheen and Dominique Strauss-Kahn are examples of the fact that, by their assumption of extraordinary privilege, these "Alpha Males", in addition to the harm they do to others, can be stupidly self-destructive.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:05 PM

It's all a world-wide conspiracy or a rich and powerful older man that likes sex when and how he wants it.

Take your choice!

I feel sorry for Social Democrats in France who feel they have to defend this predator. Surely they can find a better candidate.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM

""Recent developments also do not establish DSK's innocence, you might possibly note--only that his accuser has credibility problems.   But whatever it takes to get DSK off, right?""

Surprising statement.......I'd have thought an intelligent man like you would have known that the prosecution have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in court, and until and unless they do he IS innocent.

Simples!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 08:09 PM

A little fine-tuning, here.

Until such time as a judgment is rendered, Dominique Strauss-Kahn must be presumed innocent legally. This does NOT mean that he actually IS innocent in reality.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:44 AM

Yes, Don W, I would not be a good choice for a jury on this case---I think the evidence (and his history) is such that he is very likely guilty of raping the maid. And that rubs me the wrong way--bigtime. What evidence have you heard that indicates he did not?    This is a vastly different question than the maid's immigration problems or her possible involvement with criminals.

From a legal standpoint, her case has failed.   But, as Don Firth notes, the question of committing the crime remains open--and probably always will remain so.

If he did the crime, he is now off the hook.

But as I noted earlier, and others have now also pointed out, other possible victims are now coming forward.

It appears likely his political career is now dead.   And I have to say I am not unhappy at that news.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:34 AM

I do find this concept of alpha male applied to humans rather odd. It seems that there is an idea associatred with the word alpha that implies an appropriate status at the top of these individuals. Thsi works with other primates in small tribal groups as a description of the group organisation. Or in wolves. And possibly naked mole rats. But what works with chimps and gorillas does not translate well into human society. Where I have come across males with this sort of self image, they have always been utterly obnoxious, and associated with behaviour less than human. Real top human males would be much more effective leaders, and much more subtle in their behaviour. And very, very rare. (They probably wouldn't need to force sex, either.)

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM

"Alpha male" works for people because they think the "survival of the fittest" means the toughest and most brutal always come out on top and stay there.

"Alpha male" usually applies to the dominant male in a pack of predatory animals like wolves. Mostly all they do is prey and show deference to their leader. (No puns, please.) Human societies are more complex.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 08:04 AM

For the record the concept of alpha male in wolf groups has been debunked. The original studies that coined the term were based on a faulty premise, observations made on wolves in captivity. Wolves in the wild actually live in nuclear families, not randomly assembled units. The pack's hierarchy does not involve anyone fighting to the top of the group, because just like in a human family, the youngsters naturally follow their parents' lead.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 08:41 AM

I don't know if he's guilty or not, I do know there is evidence that he is being framed. Sarcosy is in danger of being replaced by this guy and he knows it.All he has to do is offer enough money to get someone to accuse the guy of rape.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM

Thanks, bobad.

So the concept is doubly flawed.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:25 PM

The Strauss-Kahn attorneys are basically in a holding pattern as of today. Behind the scenes they are taking bids from the "OJ Jury" and the recently, now on the market, "Casey Anthony Jury." The prosecution in an attempt at a counter move has contacted the relatives and descendents of the original "Sam Sheppard Jury."


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:26 PM

Perhaps I should have said, "self-appointed Alpha Males," whether the concept of "Alpha Male" is valid or not.

But nit-picking aside, I think you take my point, okay?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 04:27 PM

Oh yes. Wannabe might express the idea, as well.

Bobad, that's interesting about wolves. That would affect the stuff about hawks, doves, bullies and retaliators, wouldn't it, since that was done with regard to wolves at one stage?

But not relevant here. Except that the guy seems to have bumped into a retaliator, whatever problems there are with her.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 12:02 AM

"evidence that he is being framed".   OK, let's have it--with exact quotes and exact source, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

...just like in a human family, the youngsters naturally follow their parents' lead.

Now that really is a pretty questionable claim!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu - PM
Date: 18 May 11 - 07:45 PM

What a load of absolute horseshit! A man with that amount of money and power is gonna chase a maid around a hotel room naked willy nilly??? and "force" her to perform a sex act? Gimmie a fuckin break!

It just gets more strange every day. Nobody seems upset that Baker resigned from the federal regulatory borad overseeing media takeovers and took a job with Comcast... a far worse crime in my mind than a non-existent "rape". Can you say "spin"?
*********************************************************************

Soooo... she appears to be a perjurer and either a thief, a hooker or a drug dealer... or all three. I wonder what the IRS is gonna do to her.

Golly gee whiz eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM

The prosecutors have asked to drop the case

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:09 PM

And I've just read the case has been dismissed

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM

"Money doesn't talk, it swears"

BD

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:53 PM

bobad?

I mean, c'mon people? The woman perjured herself. She previously perjured herself in her quest for US citizenship according to the reports. She also has THOUSANDS of dollars in her bank account that she cannot account for to the IRS. She was RECORDED in a telecon with a prison inmate (did she NOT KNOW all these calls are recorded???) saying he had a lot of money and so on?

It appears she is a liar and a... well no need to repeat it, is there????

Like I said... I didn't believe he was stupid back when she said he was and it APPEARS I was right.

C'mon... forced oral sex? Once again, gimmie a fuckin break eh? Ya know how she could have "proved" that? Think about it fer about a half a second. She wouldn't have even had to bite his dick off... win-win?

It's so reeeedickyoulous it's shameful.

I hope the IRS finds out the truth and, IF she is guilty, locks the bitch up for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM

I love it when I'm right. I suspected from day one that Sarcosy was behind this and I still think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:00 PM

Gosh... not many people still attacking Kahn as a guitly before tried sexual predator after his accuser was found to be "suspect" by the US courts and the US IRS... or attacking me. Odd innit?

If I seem a tad pissed off, it's because I am. Not one of you lynch mob who demanded his balls on a plate before due justice because he was surely guilty because "you knew he was" have bothered to post otherwise, even though some of you you shat on me for speaking a bit of OBVIOUS logic and restraint.

Don't bother to apologize to me or to the man who was obviously slandered and libelled by your posts. That might be an act of contrition, repent or even an admission of guilt and far be it from any of you to see yourselves unworthy of such.

I assume this thread is dead. Good thing. It was trash from the beginning.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:28 AM

It is curious, though, that the accusation turned out to be consistent with reports from France about his behaviour. Now it may be that those reports were also all cooked up after the NY accusation, and it will be interesting to see what happens to the major French case.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:17 AM

We didn't know whether he was guilty then, and we still don't know it now.

No prosecutor can bring a case based on inconclusive physical evidence when the accuser's credibility is no greater than the defendant's. She said he raped her, he said she didn't. No matter who a jury might believe (and it would all depend on which jury and when you asked them), there is no more than a fifty-fifty chance that justice would be done.

Which is exactly the chance if the case isn't tried at all. Worse, if it goes to trial and a jury convicts just on the basis of their "feeling" rather than on the evidence, an innocent person could be wrongly convicted. The presumption of innocence under U.S. law means that criminal charges not backed by credible evidence must be dismissed. (I seem to have heard of other countries with a different system....)

Since the accuser has lied repeatedly on legal documents in the past, including about being raped, and because she suggested that she could make a lot of money off this case, she simply is no position to incriminate DSK "beyond a reasonable doubt," which is the U.S. standard. It's her word against his. No matter what really happened.

That's life.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:48 AM

It's very hard indeed to prove a rape. It ought to be, but it means rough justice. (Is there any other kind?)

If I'd been on a jury - if a jury had been allowed to decide this - on the basis of what I've read, I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty, but it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case I'd go for guilty.

A very unsavoury man anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:25 PM

McGrath..."I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty..."

Good lord man! With NO evidence? And WITH evidence that she was a perjurer and had THOUSANDS of dollars in the bank that she could not account for and had a phone call to a prison inmate RECORDED in which she implied she was gonna get a lot of money out of the accusation?

Sweet JAYSUS! Give yer head a shake.

Oh, and one last thing before I leave this thread (I said it early on and I repeat)... a man with that kinda money does NOT rape... he pays. If you think he rapes, you must think he's as stunned as me arse. If you think a man who has that much money got that money by being stupid, then... fill in the blank... __________

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:17 PM

Any woman can get raped, however many lies they might have told in their life. It might affect their credibility in court, but that's a different matter. Tyat's what I meant by "probably guilty", but without the evidence that would justify a conviction." As with OJ Simpson.

The threat of rape by wealthy employers has always been there for maids. Read the libretto of The Marriage of Figaro. It's not a matter of being reluctant to pay, but of power and convenience. Often enough the men involved have been quite happy enough to offer to pay afterwards. It's still rape.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM

McGrath... I really can't see how you can overlook the facts and draw conclusions based on NO facts.

You would be seen as an "angry jurer". I have a different term for it. You would not like that term.

I mean you no malice, but on this one, you are wrong and thank goodness you are not any jury except that of, well, nevermind.

gnightgnu

PS... OJ was found "not guilty" in a crimial court of law. And for good reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:55 AM

gnu, have you read about the revised translation of the phone call? I haven't seen anything about the money in the bank account. Could you find a link on that?

This discusses the counter version of the phone call - it isn't the source I got it from, though. There are a number of sites which cover this matter.


Phone discussion

This seems a balanced assessment of the situation.

Article summarising case

While searching, I did find some references to the money, but apparently the prosecutors did not find it relevant.

Why are you so heated about this? The woman has a history of lying, yes. And DSK has a history of poor sexual behaviour. And it appears that many maids in hotels have experienced this sort of thing from other men. Nothing proven at all about whether what happened was consensual or not. But even if it was, what sort of man gains pleasure from this sort of encounter, and why should he be protected?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:09 AM

and why should he be protected?

He deserves the same treatment by the law as anyone else. I believe in the US as with the UK that means.

1. He is innocent until proven guilty.
2. Guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

In this case, I can see no way that #2 can be established and as such believe the case was rightly dismissed.

I realise the system is not perfect, mistakes are made, that cases such as this one might leave many still wondering, etc. but I believe it is the fairest system we have. Changing that to suit what amounts to some peoples feelings would be a huge step backwards and even if he does not need protecting I could suggest the system does.

---
As for a civil case where I believe the outcome is dependent on probability, I'm really not sure what to think in this instance. Going by what I've read and assuming the case was based on this, whether it was yet another of her lies or whether he did go too far is not something I'd like to try to judge. They seem equally likely to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:13 AM

I'm puzzled by gnu - I said that I'd have found the man not guilty, just as I would OJ, regardless of whether or not I thought it was more than likely that they did it.

That's what jurors are supposed to do in criminal trials. A juror who decides they have to be convinced of someone's innocence before they acquit is a menace.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:29 AM

fwiw, I agree with you, McGrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:31 PM

McGrath... "It's very hard indeed to prove a rape. It ought to be, but it means rough justice. (Is there any other kind?)

If I'd been on a jury - if a jury had been allowed to decide this - on the basis of what I've read, I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty, but it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case I'd go for guilty."

When did you say you would have found the man "not guilty"??? Make up yer mind.

Penny S... "gnu, have you read about the revised translation of the phone call? I haven't seen anything about the money in the bank account. Could you find a link on that?"

No. Why would theere be a REVISED translation? She said what she said. A link about the money? No, it's all over the internet. You find it.

"While searching, I did find some references to the money, but apparently the prosecutors did not find it relevant."

So, you did find it. And you say the prosecuters did not find it relavant. Well, apparently they did because the case has been dropped because it has become obvious that she is in shit with the IRS because she is a nefarious criminal dealing with prostitution or drugs or... whatever.

"Why are you so heated about this?"

It should be obvious. This man was assailed in this thread. And so was I for stating the obvious. Yer like a bunch of vultures flapping aboutst and picking a dying man to death for NO FUCKING REASON! Read my LIPS (posts). HE DID NOT DO IT! Jaysus.

Why do youse continue to attack the man when it was obvious that he never NEEDED to try to stick his dick in a maid's mouth in a hotel? Let me educate you. If a man has millions of dollars and he wants a blowjob he pays for it. If a man has millions of dollars he is smart enough to know that if he sticks his dick into the mouth of a woman that doesn't want him to do that he stands the possibilty of having her bite his dick off.

Now. Seriously. WTF don't you understand about that?

Oh, yeah. The case was dropped. WTF don't you understand about that?

"Nothing proven at all about whether what happened was consensual or not. But even if it was, what sort of man gains pleasure from this sort of encounter, and why should he be protected?"

What sort of man gets pleasure from a blowjob? EVERY man. EVERY, EVERY, EVERY MAN! ALL of them. Down to a man. Some MEN even suck each others dicks just to get a blowjob. Seriously... I read about it in the newspaper. I even heard Elton John likes to suck dick but I dunno if I could believe THAT? Could you?

Why should he be protected???? Because, first of all, he didn't "do it", and, secondly, and I think I speak for EVERY man... ya can't beat a blowjob.... even if ya gotta pay for it. However, paying for it with you entire career and yer life is a bit too fuckin much. I mean, after ya pay the proper remuneration, having some cocksucker say she wants a surcharge in the millions is a bit off the tip eh?

That maid is gonna get it from the IRS.... I hope. And she deserves EVERY hour that she spends in jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM

"When did you say you would have found the man "not guilty"?"

When I wrote "...it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt." That means "not guilty" in any criminal trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:34 PM

McGrath... oh. I messed up. I thought you were saying he was guilty. My mistake. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:56 AM

gnu, what McGrath said is that he was probably guilty but since it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, in a criminal trial he would have to go with a not guilty verdict but in a civil trial he would go with guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: goatfell
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:07 AM

Money talks

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:16 AM

gnu, I meant the sort of encounter that is between strangers, over in a few minutes, and only gives pleasure to one of the parties. Song quote coming up. If you are correct about all men, then Cole Porter had Kate express my feelings perfectly. But I don't think you are. The men I know are not like that.

As for the money, there was a piece which clearly accounted for it in the prosecutors statement - they stated they did not find it relevant. What was relevant was her history of lying.

The revised translation made it clear that the remarks which were quoted together, implying she intended a sting came at different places in the conversation and did not carry the meaning originally published. That's all over the place as well.

I'm with McGrath on this. And you are over the top in your reaction - do you know the guy? Is he a friend?

I can tell you this, he is on the list of men I don't want to be alone with ever.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:38 AM

"I can tell you this, he is on the list of men I don't want to be alone with ever.

I hope you don't mean me, Penny...

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 01:07 PM

The outcome of these trials will favor rich white men over helpless females. It is unimaginable that a house maid would expend energy to exonerate herself by publicly exposing herself if she wasn't innocent.

Strauss-Kahn thought he could get away with it because he is a powerful public figure and the dirty trick is the defense of this man.

She was a rape victim and this is the nasty news, the judicial system in the US often derogates them and they are pilloried in rags like the New York Post (oh that's right, owned by Murdoch so what else should we expect?)

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:35 PM

I think gnu has covered the salient points.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 12:26 AM

"It is unimaginable that a house maid would expend energy to exonerate herself by publicly exposing herself if she wasn't innocent."

Unreal. Same as asking me if he is my friend.

She perjured herself more than once, she lied, she has thousands of dollars in her bank account that she can't explain, she was recorded in a telephone call to a prison inmate talking nasty shit... and you still assail an innocent man, and me?

Yer all a piece a work, you are.

This time, it really is gnightgnu. If you all want to hang a man that paid fer a blowjob and got royally screwed, have fun at it but I do really think you are twisted in your take on the situation.

BTW... not all men are saints and not all men are the devil... but, all men like a blowjob... no matter if any of you think they don't. I found that comment to the contrary TRUELY laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:27 AM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:39 PM

......."With all the money and influences DSK has, the possibility of buying his way out of it, even so far as paying off the woman and/or her family is also in play...."

I betcha she's hoping to make a bundle!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:23 AM

It is quite possible, even normal, for someone to lie in certain circumstances and be telling the truth in others. (I'd challenge anybody to say they have never lied. And if they said they never had, I'd assume they were lying.) Evidence of the lying reduces credibility, but it doesn't mean it should be assumed they are lying in a particular case.

The presumption of innocence for someone accused of a crime means that the accusation in this case falls. However, in the event that a trial were to take place of Ms Diallo for perjury and defamation, the presumption of innocence would be for her, and the credibility of Strauss-Kahn's evidence, taking into account evidence of his own past behaviour, would come into play. Can there be any doubt that the case would be thrown out?

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 11:04 PM

Well, it indeed looks as if Ms. Diallo will end up far richer than she was before meeting Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

Ka-ching

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 11:51 PM

If the vast majority of the settlement does not go for legal fees.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 09:22 AM

It looks like Mr. Strauss-Kahn has decided against a trial and has settled for a reputed 6 million so I guess he must be either very generous or very guilty.

Read about it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:20 AM

The final answer is: NO ONE will ever know the truth about all of this except the two persons who were there!

There ARE rich & famous men who will ...and have... taken advantage of susceptible women, and Strauss-Kahn does have a reputation.
Similarly there ARE women who will.. and have... used sex to extract money from men who seem to have plenty. And this woman has a history that makes one wonder.

It may be that BOTH stories are partially true and each was embroidering THEIR version to support claim & counter-claims.

The only question we can really debate is whether 6 million is a good price for either a sex act or to settle a claim. My take is that she got the better deal, no matter what happened in fact. I doubt it will affect future actions by either horny rich men OR hotel maids.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: meself
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:26 AM

My take is that some lawyer is going to have a very merry Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:49 AM

My take is that some lawyer, some maid and some wealthy philanderer are all going to have a happy Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 12:53 AM

As Bill says, we'll never know if Strauss-Kahn was guiity or not.   All we know is that it appears to have been worth $6 million to him to have the case end right now.