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BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?

Ron Davies 12 Dec 12 - 12:53 AM
bobad 11 Dec 12 - 10:49 AM
meself 11 Dec 12 - 10:26 AM
Bill D 11 Dec 12 - 10:20 AM
bobad 11 Dec 12 - 09:22 AM
Ron Davies 09 Dec 12 - 11:51 PM
bobad 09 Dec 12 - 11:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Aug 11 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 28 Aug 11 - 04:27 AM
gnu 28 Aug 11 - 12:26 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Aug 11 - 11:35 PM
Stringsinger 27 Aug 11 - 01:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Aug 11 - 07:38 AM
Penny S. 27 Aug 11 - 07:16 AM
goatfell 27 Aug 11 - 07:07 AM
bobad 27 Aug 11 - 06:56 AM
gnu 26 Aug 11 - 09:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM
gnu 26 Aug 11 - 06:31 PM
GUEST,Jon 26 Aug 11 - 07:29 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 11 - 07:13 AM
GUEST,Jon 26 Aug 11 - 06:09 AM
Penny S. 26 Aug 11 - 02:55 AM
gnu 25 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Aug 11 - 04:17 PM
gnu 25 Aug 11 - 03:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Aug 11 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Lighter 25 Aug 11 - 08:17 AM
Penny S. 25 Aug 11 - 03:28 AM
gnu 24 Aug 11 - 05:00 PM
kendall 23 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM
gnu 23 Aug 11 - 07:53 PM
bobad 23 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Jon 23 Aug 11 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Jon 23 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM
gnu 23 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM
Ron Davies 07 Jul 11 - 12:02 AM
Penny S. 06 Jul 11 - 04:27 PM
Don Firth 06 Jul 11 - 02:26 PM
catspaw49 06 Jul 11 - 12:25 PM
Lighter 06 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM
kendall 06 Jul 11 - 08:41 AM
bobad 06 Jul 11 - 08:04 AM
Lighter 06 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM
Penny S. 06 Jul 11 - 07:34 AM
Ron Davies 06 Jul 11 - 12:44 AM
Don Firth 05 Jul 11 - 08:09 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM
Charley Noble 04 Jul 11 - 08:05 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 12:53 AM

As Bill says, we'll never know if Strauss-Kahn was guiity or not.   All we know is that it appears to have been worth $6 million to him to have the case end right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:49 AM

My take is that some lawyer, some maid and some wealthy philanderer are all going to have a happy Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: meself
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:26 AM

My take is that some lawyer is going to have a very merry Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:20 AM

The final answer is: NO ONE will ever know the truth about all of this except the two persons who were there!

There ARE rich & famous men who will ...and have... taken advantage of susceptible women, and Strauss-Kahn does have a reputation.
Similarly there ARE women who will.. and have... used sex to extract money from men who seem to have plenty. And this woman has a history that makes one wonder.

It may be that BOTH stories are partially true and each was embroidering THEIR version to support claim & counter-claims.

The only question we can really debate is whether 6 million is a good price for either a sex act or to settle a claim. My take is that she got the better deal, no matter what happened in fact. I doubt it will affect future actions by either horny rich men OR hotel maids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 09:22 AM

It looks like Mr. Strauss-Kahn has decided against a trial and has settled for a reputed 6 million so I guess he must be either very generous or very guilty.

Read about it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 11:51 PM

If the vast majority of the settlement does not go for legal fees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 11:04 PM

Well, it indeed looks as if Ms. Diallo will end up far richer than she was before meeting Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

Ka-ching


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:23 AM

It is quite possible, even normal, for someone to lie in certain circumstances and be telling the truth in others. (I'd challenge anybody to say they have never lied. And if they said they never had, I'd assume they were lying.) Evidence of the lying reduces credibility, but it doesn't mean it should be assumed they are lying in a particular case.

The presumption of innocence for someone accused of a crime means that the accusation in this case falls. However, in the event that a trial were to take place of Ms Diallo for perjury and defamation, the presumption of innocence would be for her, and the credibility of Strauss-Kahn's evidence, taking into account evidence of his own past behaviour, would come into play. Can there be any doubt that the case would be thrown out?


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:27 AM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:39 PM

......."With all the money and influences DSK has, the possibility of buying his way out of it, even so far as paying off the woman and/or her family is also in play...."

I betcha she's hoping to make a bundle!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 12:26 AM

"It is unimaginable that a house maid would expend energy to exonerate herself by publicly exposing herself if she wasn't innocent."

Unreal. Same as asking me if he is my friend.

She perjured herself more than once, she lied, she has thousands of dollars in her bank account that she can't explain, she was recorded in a telephone call to a prison inmate talking nasty shit... and you still assail an innocent man, and me?

Yer all a piece a work, you are.

This time, it really is gnightgnu. If you all want to hang a man that paid fer a blowjob and got royally screwed, have fun at it but I do really think you are twisted in your take on the situation.

BTW... not all men are saints and not all men are the devil... but, all men like a blowjob... no matter if any of you think they don't. I found that comment to the contrary TRUELY laughable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:35 PM

I think gnu has covered the salient points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 01:07 PM

The outcome of these trials will favor rich white men over helpless females. It is unimaginable that a house maid would expend energy to exonerate herself by publicly exposing herself if she wasn't innocent.

Strauss-Kahn thought he could get away with it because he is a powerful public figure and the dirty trick is the defense of this man.

She was a rape victim and this is the nasty news, the judicial system in the US often derogates them and they are pilloried in rags like the New York Post (oh that's right, owned by Murdoch so what else should we expect?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:38 AM

"I can tell you this, he is on the list of men I don't want to be alone with ever.

I hope you don't mean me, Penny...


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:16 AM

gnu, I meant the sort of encounter that is between strangers, over in a few minutes, and only gives pleasure to one of the parties. Song quote coming up. If you are correct about all men, then Cole Porter had Kate express my feelings perfectly. But I don't think you are. The men I know are not like that.

As for the money, there was a piece which clearly accounted for it in the prosecutors statement - they stated they did not find it relevant. What was relevant was her history of lying.

The revised translation made it clear that the remarks which were quoted together, implying she intended a sting came at different places in the conversation and did not carry the meaning originally published. That's all over the place as well.

I'm with McGrath on this. And you are over the top in your reaction - do you know the guy? Is he a friend?

I can tell you this, he is on the list of men I don't want to be alone with ever.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: goatfell
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:07 AM

Money talks


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:56 AM

gnu, what McGrath said is that he was probably guilty but since it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, in a criminal trial he would have to go with a not guilty verdict but in a civil trial he would go with guilty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:34 PM

McGrath... oh. I messed up. I thought you were saying he was guilty. My mistake. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM

"When did you say you would have found the man "not guilty"?"

When I wrote "...it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt." That means "not guilty" in any criminal trial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:31 PM

McGrath... "It's very hard indeed to prove a rape. It ought to be, but it means rough justice. (Is there any other kind?)

If I'd been on a jury - if a jury had been allowed to decide this - on the basis of what I've read, I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty, but it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case I'd go for guilty."

When did you say you would have found the man "not guilty"??? Make up yer mind.

Penny S... "gnu, have you read about the revised translation of the phone call? I haven't seen anything about the money in the bank account. Could you find a link on that?"

No. Why would theere be a REVISED translation? She said what she said. A link about the money? No, it's all over the internet. You find it.

"While searching, I did find some references to the money, but apparently the prosecutors did not find it relevant."

So, you did find it. And you say the prosecuters did not find it relavant. Well, apparently they did because the case has been dropped because it has become obvious that she is in shit with the IRS because she is a nefarious criminal dealing with prostitution or drugs or... whatever.

"Why are you so heated about this?"

It should be obvious. This man was assailed in this thread. And so was I for stating the obvious. Yer like a bunch of vultures flapping aboutst and picking a dying man to death for NO FUCKING REASON! Read my LIPS (posts). HE DID NOT DO IT! Jaysus.

Why do youse continue to attack the man when it was obvious that he never NEEDED to try to stick his dick in a maid's mouth in a hotel? Let me educate you. If a man has millions of dollars and he wants a blowjob he pays for it. If a man has millions of dollars he is smart enough to know that if he sticks his dick into the mouth of a woman that doesn't want him to do that he stands the possibilty of having her bite his dick off.

Now. Seriously. WTF don't you understand about that?

Oh, yeah. The case was dropped. WTF don't you understand about that?

"Nothing proven at all about whether what happened was consensual or not. But even if it was, what sort of man gains pleasure from this sort of encounter, and why should he be protected?"

What sort of man gets pleasure from a blowjob? EVERY man. EVERY, EVERY, EVERY MAN! ALL of them. Down to a man. Some MEN even suck each others dicks just to get a blowjob. Seriously... I read about it in the newspaper. I even heard Elton John likes to suck dick but I dunno if I could believe THAT? Could you?

Why should he be protected???? Because, first of all, he didn't "do it", and, secondly, and I think I speak for EVERY man... ya can't beat a blowjob.... even if ya gotta pay for it. However, paying for it with you entire career and yer life is a bit too fuckin much. I mean, after ya pay the proper remuneration, having some cocksucker say she wants a surcharge in the millions is a bit off the tip eh?

That maid is gonna get it from the IRS.... I hope. And she deserves EVERY hour that she spends in jail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:29 AM

fwiw, I agree with you, McGrath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:13 AM

I'm puzzled by gnu - I said that I'd have found the man not guilty, just as I would OJ, regardless of whether or not I thought it was more than likely that they did it.

That's what jurors are supposed to do in criminal trials. A juror who decides they have to be convinced of someone's innocence before they acquit is a menace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:09 AM

and why should he be protected?

He deserves the same treatment by the law as anyone else. I believe in the US as with the UK that means.

1. He is innocent until proven guilty.
2. Guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

In this case, I can see no way that #2 can be established and as such believe the case was rightly dismissed.

I realise the system is not perfect, mistakes are made, that cases such as this one might leave many still wondering, etc. but I believe it is the fairest system we have. Changing that to suit what amounts to some peoples feelings would be a huge step backwards and even if he does not need protecting I could suggest the system does.

---
As for a civil case where I believe the outcome is dependent on probability, I'm really not sure what to think in this instance. Going by what I've read and assuming the case was based on this, whether it was yet another of her lies or whether he did go too far is not something I'd like to try to judge. They seem equally likely to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:55 AM

gnu, have you read about the revised translation of the phone call? I haven't seen anything about the money in the bank account. Could you find a link on that?

This discusses the counter version of the phone call - it isn't the source I got it from, though. There are a number of sites which cover this matter.


Phone discussion

This seems a balanced assessment of the situation.

Article summarising case

While searching, I did find some references to the money, but apparently the prosecutors did not find it relevant.

Why are you so heated about this? The woman has a history of lying, yes. And DSK has a history of poor sexual behaviour. And it appears that many maids in hotels have experienced this sort of thing from other men. Nothing proven at all about whether what happened was consensual or not. But even if it was, what sort of man gains pleasure from this sort of encounter, and why should he be protected?

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM

McGrath... I really can't see how you can overlook the facts and draw conclusions based on NO facts.

You would be seen as an "angry jurer". I have a different term for it. You would not like that term.

I mean you no malice, but on this one, you are wrong and thank goodness you are not any jury except that of, well, nevermind.

gnightgnu

PS... OJ was found "not guilty" in a crimial court of law. And for good reasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:17 PM

Any woman can get raped, however many lies they might have told in their life. It might affect their credibility in court, but that's a different matter. Tyat's what I meant by "probably guilty", but without the evidence that would justify a conviction." As with OJ Simpson.

The threat of rape by wealthy employers has always been there for maids. Read the libretto of The Marriage of Figaro. It's not a matter of being reluctant to pay, but of power and convenience. Often enough the men involved have been quite happy enough to offer to pay afterwards. It's still rape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:25 PM

McGrath..."I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty..."

Good lord man! With NO evidence? And WITH evidence that she was a perjurer and had THOUSANDS of dollars in the bank that she could not account for and had a phone call to a prison inmate RECORDED in which she implied she was gonna get a lot of money out of the accusation?

Sweet JAYSUS! Give yer head a shake.

Oh, and one last thing before I leave this thread (I said it early on and I repeat)... a man with that kinda money does NOT rape... he pays. If you think he rapes, you must think he's as stunned as me arse. If you think a man who has that much money got that money by being stupid, then... fill in the blank... __________


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:48 AM

It's very hard indeed to prove a rape. It ought to be, but it means rough justice. (Is there any other kind?)

If I'd been on a jury - if a jury had been allowed to decide this - on the basis of what I've read, I think I'd have come to the conclusion that he was probably guilty, but it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case I'd go for guilty.

A very unsavoury man anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:17 AM

We didn't know whether he was guilty then, and we still don't know it now.

No prosecutor can bring a case based on inconclusive physical evidence when the accuser's credibility is no greater than the defendant's. She said he raped her, he said she didn't. No matter who a jury might believe (and it would all depend on which jury and when you asked them), there is no more than a fifty-fifty chance that justice would be done.

Which is exactly the chance if the case isn't tried at all. Worse, if it goes to trial and a jury convicts just on the basis of their "feeling" rather than on the evidence, an innocent person could be wrongly convicted. The presumption of innocence under U.S. law means that criminal charges not backed by credible evidence must be dismissed. (I seem to have heard of other countries with a different system....)

Since the accuser has lied repeatedly on legal documents in the past, including about being raped, and because she suggested that she could make a lot of money off this case, she simply is no position to incriminate DSK "beyond a reasonable doubt," which is the U.S. standard. It's her word against his. No matter what really happened.

That's life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:28 AM

It is curious, though, that the accusation turned out to be consistent with reports from France about his behaviour. Now it may be that those reports were also all cooked up after the NY accusation, and it will be interesting to see what happens to the major French case.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:00 PM

Gosh... not many people still attacking Kahn as a guitly before tried sexual predator after his accuser was found to be "suspect" by the US courts and the US IRS... or attacking me. Odd innit?

If I seem a tad pissed off, it's because I am. Not one of you lynch mob who demanded his balls on a plate before due justice because he was surely guilty because "you knew he was" have bothered to post otherwise, even though some of you you shat on me for speaking a bit of OBVIOUS logic and restraint.

Don't bother to apologize to me or to the man who was obviously slandered and libelled by your posts. That might be an act of contrition, repent or even an admission of guilt and far be it from any of you to see yourselves unworthy of such.

I assume this thread is dead. Good thing. It was trash from the beginning.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM

I love it when I'm right. I suspected from day one that Sarcosy was behind this and I still think so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:53 PM

bobad?

I mean, c'mon people? The woman perjured herself. She previously perjured herself in her quest for US citizenship according to the reports. She also has THOUSANDS of dollars in her bank account that she cannot account for to the IRS. She was RECORDED in a telecon with a prison inmate (did she NOT KNOW all these calls are recorded???) saying he had a lot of money and so on?

It appears she is a liar and a... well no need to repeat it, is there????

Like I said... I didn't believe he was stupid back when she said he was and it APPEARS I was right.

C'mon... forced oral sex? Once again, gimmie a fuckin break eh? Ya know how she could have "proved" that? Think about it fer about a half a second. She wouldn't have even had to bite his dick off... win-win?

It's so reeeedickyoulous it's shameful.

I hope the IRS finds out the truth and, IF she is guilty, locks the bitch up for a long time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM

"Money doesn't talk, it swears"

BD


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:09 PM

And I've just read the case has been dismissed


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM

The prosecutors have asked to drop the case


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: gnu - PM
Date: 18 May 11 - 07:45 PM

What a load of absolute horseshit! A man with that amount of money and power is gonna chase a maid around a hotel room naked willy nilly??? and "force" her to perform a sex act? Gimmie a fuckin break!

It just gets more strange every day. Nobody seems upset that Baker resigned from the federal regulatory borad overseeing media takeovers and took a job with Comcast... a far worse crime in my mind than a non-existent "rape". Can you say "spin"?
*********************************************************************

Soooo... she appears to be a perjurer and either a thief, a hooker or a drug dealer... or all three. I wonder what the IRS is gonna do to her.

Golly gee whiz eh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

...just like in a human family, the youngsters naturally follow their parents' lead.

Now that really is a pretty questionable claim!


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 12:02 AM

"evidence that he is being framed".   OK, let's have it--with exact quotes and exact source, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 04:27 PM

Oh yes. Wannabe might express the idea, as well.

Bobad, that's interesting about wolves. That would affect the stuff about hawks, doves, bullies and retaliators, wouldn't it, since that was done with regard to wolves at one stage?

But not relevant here. Except that the guy seems to have bumped into a retaliator, whatever problems there are with her.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:26 PM

Perhaps I should have said, "self-appointed Alpha Males," whether the concept of "Alpha Male" is valid or not.

But nit-picking aside, I think you take my point, okay?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:25 PM

The Strauss-Kahn attorneys are basically in a holding pattern as of today. Behind the scenes they are taking bids from the "OJ Jury" and the recently, now on the market, "Casey Anthony Jury." The prosecution in an attempt at a counter move has contacted the relatives and descendents of the original "Sam Sheppard Jury."


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM

Thanks, bobad.

So the concept is doubly flawed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 08:41 AM

I don't know if he's guilty or not, I do know there is evidence that he is being framed. Sarcosy is in danger of being replaced by this guy and he knows it.All he has to do is offer enough money to get someone to accuse the guy of rape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 08:04 AM

For the record the concept of alpha male in wolf groups has been debunked. The original studies that coined the term were based on a faulty premise, observations made on wolves in captivity. Wolves in the wild actually live in nuclear families, not randomly assembled units. The pack's hierarchy does not involve anyone fighting to the top of the group, because just like in a human family, the youngsters naturally follow their parents' lead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM

"Alpha male" works for people because they think the "survival of the fittest" means the toughest and most brutal always come out on top and stay there.

"Alpha male" usually applies to the dominant male in a pack of predatory animals like wolves. Mostly all they do is prey and show deference to their leader. (No puns, please.) Human societies are more complex.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:34 AM

I do find this concept of alpha male applied to humans rather odd. It seems that there is an idea associatred with the word alpha that implies an appropriate status at the top of these individuals. Thsi works with other primates in small tribal groups as a description of the group organisation. Or in wolves. And possibly naked mole rats. But what works with chimps and gorillas does not translate well into human society. Where I have come across males with this sort of self image, they have always been utterly obnoxious, and associated with behaviour less than human. Real top human males would be much more effective leaders, and much more subtle in their behaviour. And very, very rare. (They probably wouldn't need to force sex, either.)

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:44 AM

Yes, Don W, I would not be a good choice for a jury on this case---I think the evidence (and his history) is such that he is very likely guilty of raping the maid. And that rubs me the wrong way--bigtime. What evidence have you heard that indicates he did not?    This is a vastly different question than the maid's immigration problems or her possible involvement with criminals.

From a legal standpoint, her case has failed.   But, as Don Firth notes, the question of committing the crime remains open--and probably always will remain so.

If he did the crime, he is now off the hook.

But as I noted earlier, and others have now also pointed out, other possible victims are now coming forward.

It appears likely his political career is now dead.   And I have to say I am not unhappy at that news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 08:09 PM

A little fine-tuning, here.

Until such time as a judgment is rendered, Dominique Strauss-Kahn must be presumed innocent legally. This does NOT mean that he actually IS innocent in reality.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM

""Recent developments also do not establish DSK's innocence, you might possibly note--only that his accuser has credibility problems.   But whatever it takes to get DSK off, right?""

Surprising statement.......I'd have thought an intelligent man like you would have known that the prosecution have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in court, and until and unless they do he IS innocent.

Simples!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:05 PM

It's all a world-wide conspiracy or a rich and powerful older man that likes sex when and how he wants it.

Take your choice!

I feel sorry for Social Democrats in France who feel they have to defend this predator. Surely they can find a better candidate.

Charley Noble


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