British Folk Art

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:35 AM

"IF YOU ARE A HARDCORE, HARDLINE TRADITIONALIST AND FIND MY OPINIONS ON FOLK MUSIC HERETICAL AND MY IMAGES OFFENSIVE AND SHOWING A GENERAL LACK OF RESPECT, THEN I AM OBVIOUSLY DOING SOMETHING RIGHT."

Personally (speaking as someone who often gets called a hardcore, hardline traditionalist) I find David Owen's images & ideas utterly charming and not in the least bit heretical, offensive, alternative or disrepectful. He is obviously doing it right because he's in demand with an impressive CV to boot, which he wouldn't have if he was truly offensive, disrespectful or heretical.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:35 AM

"We see Folk Art in patronising terms of Naivity and Primitivism; we see them as being Noble, Natural, Innocent, Uneducated, Untainted."

Well maybe *some* of us do? I think I was attracted to so-called Primitive art during my mid-teens when browsing through, well 'art'. I was struck by the emotional potency, the super-real vividness, the palpable presence of the figures, the uncompromising directness of the story, the absence of contrivance.

One could rephrase such impressions in similar ways to those you have expressed of course.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GloriaJ
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:39 AM

Get hold of "People's Art:Working Class Art from 1750 to the Present Day" by Emmanuel Cooper ISBN 1 851581081. This is a thorough survey of the whole subject with plenty of illustrations, published in 1994

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:49 AM

Thanks Gloria, that sounds spot on!

Otherwise, as to folk art here and now - not at all heretical either, but it still might make some grit their teeth a tad:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/janicesaucier/3390784874/

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 12:19 PM

"I've got a Macrame hanging I made around that time into which are woven assorted animal bones, skulls, stones and other things from the Nature Table - Folk Horror at its finest. Never made an owl though..."

Folk horror nature table? I think I can outdo you with the time I began collecting dead crows (for skeletons and feathers). I hanged them out to dry on the huge resplendent ash tree in my mothers garden and quite a gothic sight it was.

Her vegetarian hunt-sab friend came in quite shaken from the garden one afternoon and commented on the mini display of feathered cadavers which were strung up in the branches.

As my mother was busy and distracted at the time she simply said that it was OK as they they were mine.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 12:35 PM

Lovely. As a kid I'd marvel at the gibbetted weasels, crows, daws and moles hung on fences midst blasted Northumbrian hedgerows; all part of the lore of the land, and replete with menacing overtones of a ceremonial something or other that lingers to this day...

They still do it in Shopshire anyway: Gamekeeper's Gibbet

Next album I do is going to be packaged using handmade covers fashioned from dead weasels and other such vermin interwoven with cornstalks and rowan berries. No two covers the same; limited edition of three copies, £320 each. Two songs: The Molecatcher (17.45) and The Sheep Stealer (16.00 - actually the same version you can download for nowt on my An Oblique Parallax of English Speaking Folksong blog which I can't link to because I've already used my link on this post already but for the truly curious a Google search will get you there - that's all about Folk Art as well in a way).

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 01:01 PM

Nits! The damn things vanished. Nae matter, it's up on Soundcloud now; be amongst the first to listen to it at:

http://soundcloud.com/sedayne/the-sheep-stealer

For those who feel that sitting though 11 minutes of real-time live electronics & Accursed Viol improvisation is asking too much of them, then the singing starts 11.40 minutes in. That's me in my guise as hardcore, hardline traditionalist BTW...

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 01:34 PM

So Sub, you're a smart fella, to what extent do you feel like you are patronsising the groups who inspire you and who you (to what ever degree) emulate in your own work?

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: glueman
Date: 24 May 11 - 02:17 PM

Unfortunately, I spent to long in art schools to settle for hay bales or moons with faces on my album covers. Ironically, it was a portfolio of ratting pictures that got me into one C1978. We were keen ratters our gang and the photographic portraits, complete with our quarry hung from their knotted tails, I'd stand by all these years later.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 02:28 PM

Whilst I'm not aware of consciously emulating or patronising anything, though I do subscibe to the Camus maxim (as quoted by Scott Walker on Scott 3) that A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened. Unconsiously of course we are all conduits and repositaries of everything we've ever been exposed to; every one of us is a Tradition Bearer in that sense but our work is always more than the sum total of its parts somehow...

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 02:55 PM

"We see Folk Art in patronising terms of Naivity and Primitivism; we see them as being Noble, Natural, Innocent, Uneducated, Untainted."

"Whilst I'm not aware of [...] patronising anything,"

Come on honey, get it straight! Either 'we' do or 'we' don't - Eh?
Or perhaps are you a bit separate and superior to "us lot". Of course I know you are not. That's just provocation.

But all this "we / you" "thee / thou" stuff, arguably linguistically distances one from immediate personal human engagement - with art and indeed all other forms of personal experience. Though this is of specific relevance to matters pertaining to "folk" art I should guess.

Never having been to art college myself, I can only surmise.. :) Maybe someone can put this better than me.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:50 PM

We were keen ratters our gang and the photographic portraits, complete with our quarry hung from their knotted tails, I'd stand by all these years later.

Sounds about right; I hear that in the recordings of John MacDonald: The Singing Molecatcher of Morayshire. Is it true that once he recorded the album he never sang the songs again, believing that the copyright law prevented him from doing so?

We see Folk Art in patronising terms of [...]

and

I'm not aware of [...] patronising anything

Do keep up there, lively. We ain't me; by we I'm speaking of the general Folk Consensus of the last century or so as revealed in The Imagined Village, Fakesong, Rites and Riots etc. etc. I'm trying (!) to be objective and impartial here; like I say perception vs intention is the key. Besides, I tend to see art for it's own sake really - even Folk Art, if, indeed, such a thing can be said to exist at all. For sure we might find a tasty item of Treen tucked away in a car boot sale (hardly likely in these days of afteroon TV antique shows) but what is without that all important provenance confirming that it is, in fact, the real deal; authentic indeed.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:08 PM

"We ain't me; by we I'm speaking of the general Folk Consensus of the last century or so as revealed in The Imagined Village, Fakesong, Rites and Riots etc. etc."

Indeed, and I'm sure folkloric consensual objectivity is all very fascinating, when it's at home, though I'm not sire where that home is? Is it to be found on Brighton Pier or in it's Antiquarian Bookshops? Hell, who knows? Except the experts of course who have pondered such matters, thankfully for me I'd rather be eating chips than fretting over such imponderables..

Mind you, I'd still be interested in further resources for British folk art.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:28 PM

Is it to be found on Brighton Pier or in it's Antiquarian Bookshops?

Both; and it doesn't preclude fish & chips either. On the end of Blackpool's north pier is a fine traditional triple-decker carousel of the sort cherished as something of an icon of English Folk Art. And in my local Antiquarian Bookshop, one might find a copy of the aforementioned Popular English Art, the cover of which depicts a fairground horse (in fact, the very image was used by The Museum of Folklore as part of their website). Folk Art is as much gibbeted weasels in hedgerows as it is rooting around in dusty bookshops and libraries; I'd say it lies somewhere between the two maybe - empirical on the one hand, and cerebral on the other. In the end, it's all about the joy...

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 27 May 11 - 07:31 AM

Get hold of "People's Art:Working Class Art from 1750 to the Present Day" by Emmanuel Cooper

Bought it for pennies from Abebooks on the day of your recommendation and it's just arrived now; a lovely old hardback libary copy with the Dewey number still on the spine (A 709. 033 COO) - inside it's stamped City of Sunderland College Learning Centre. Still, it's part of my library now (my mother's a Makem). Flicking through it strikes all the right notes - from intimate pieces of treen to union banners; and Wallis and Lowry are in there too... Many thanks for the heads up!

Check it out, lively...

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GloriaJ
Date: 27 May 11 - 08:35 AM

Great - yes I think mine was a remaindered copy so I didnt pay the full price of £25.I like the way a lot of folk art doesnt take itself too seriously, and the book is quite entertaining and well-illustrated.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 27 May 11 - 10:33 AM

I like the way a lot of folk art doesnt take itself too seriously,

A quality we find in much medieval stuff too, from misericords to the vivid illuminations of the Luttrell and Macclesfield Psalters - however so condescending their ultimate purpose. The Luttrell Psalter is famous for its vivid scenes of rural / peasant life at the time, as well its more fantastical inventions / conventions. With this in mind I'm going to seriously recommend Mirror in Parchment: The Luttrell Psalter and the Making of Medieval England. How much? Well I'm sure you can get it for a lot less; even my copy of the complete facsimile of The Macclesfield Psalter was a fraction of that...

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: GUEST,katie
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:42 PM

Hello, I am a decorative artist specialising in traditional folk art such as Gypsy wagons, canal boats and Fairground rides and showfronts. You are more than welcome to visit my website www.kbmorgan.co.uk All the very best, katie

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:53 PM

You could try clicking on some of the names on this site.. many of which are into the Folk Art Pottery of today but much of which is based on yesteryear:-   Traditional Pottery Folk Art Site.

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:56 PM

You could also try this very interesting site!

Subject: RE: British Folk Art
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 05:01 PM

You could google 'Punch and Judy'... 'Measham ware' (known as bargeware), 'slipware pottery', 'early bird decoys',' Folk art painting' .' 18th century dolls'. These I have come across in my study of antiques.