BS: UK debt increasing more than ever

Subject: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Lox
Date: 24 May 11 - 08:00 AM

So Osborne needs to make cuts to essential services to deal with the UK debt right?

Then why has borrowing soared to the highest levels ever?

"Today's data release by the Office for National Statistics reveals that public borrowing rose to £10bn last month, £2.7bn higher than a year ago and the worst figure ever recorded for the month of April."

So what are the cuts financing then?

Oh of course silly me - they're there to fund the tax cut for the super rich.

"It's worth noting that the difference is largely due to Labour's 50 per cent tax on bank bonuses over £25,000, which raised £3.5bn last year. Osborne's decision not to repeat the tax (as Ed Balls has demanded) means that revenue is significantly lower this year."

So let me get this right we need the tories because of the huge debt labour left us yeah? .... so what about the bigger debt being left to us by the tories?

The fat cats aren't just taking the cream, they want all the milk too so they can piss it away for their own amusement.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Lox
Date: 24 May 11 - 08:01 AM

You'll be wanting a link for that post ...

here it is ..



          link




.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Lox
Date: 24 May 11 - 08:26 AM

And another article in a similar vein, referring to the NATO mission to prevent a humanitarian disaster in Libya by fanning the flames, giving weapons to one side and killing the other side etc ...

   Link

.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 24 May 11 - 09:52 AM

every which way you look at it it seems every thing is a f@@k-up these days .... Going to hell in a handbasket I say.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Musket
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:03 AM

Still, having checked, our local pub hasn't run out of beer yet, and my wine rack looks healthily full.

Mind you, the bottom E string on my favourite guitar has started buzzing, I am out playing tonight and have run out of strings.

Oh Heck, the country really is going to the dogs then?

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:31 PM

Dogs? Their mothers were bitches.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Musket
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:07 AM

I note M&S profits are up.

An increase in April's borrowing is a bit worrying, but there again inflation is a bit higher than predicted and whilst we have had a year of planned austerity measures to bring her back into the wind, the sails aren't rigged out yet. Or to put it another way, I'll worry about it being a success or failure in 2014, not by each monthly blip in one direction or another.

I note the media have jumped on this but were quiet on the successive months borrowing went down.

I don't hold a candle for this government but there are more tangible reasons to distrust them than assuming they can control inflation. Not even Fred the Shred could do that...

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:18 AM

From the other thread above this one..but RELATED!!

Subject: RE: BS: Strauss-Kahn. American dirty tricks?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:06 AM

......A couple of short paragraphs, and then:

"American dirty tricks??....jeez, why do that?..they already own our government, and have all their lackey banker buddies filling about every cabinet post for several administrations, and now their boy was going to run for the presidency of France....while Britain's leadership is pretty much bought out, and paid for....

....or maybe he was just an arrogant asshole.....

...does it matter? The real culprits are those globalist bankers, in our governments, who 'persuade' our leaders to push their agendas, over and regardless of the will of the people who they were elected to represent....while selling us a bad bill of goods, and masking it with political, partisan 'policies'...just to keep the appearance that these are really 'just political differences'!!!

I hope that through all this, a lot more stuff will come out...but not particularly the details of a blow job gone awry!!!!"

THE debt is mostly owed for the INTEREST to these fuck-nuts!...who also broker the loans to other countries...friends or foes!!...Jeez, hop aboard the 'clue train'!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Lox
Date: 25 May 11 - 12:41 PM

Gloss it any which way you choose folks.

Increasing Public Borrowing is the exact opposite of decreasing national debt.

Blaming it on inflation is so disingenuous as to be farcical.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 May 11 - 01:19 PM

Lox: "Blaming it on inflation is so disingenuous as to be farcical."

Actually not true....the interest paid to the Federal Reserve, decreases the actual buying power of the dollar. More and more of the value of the dollar, has to include the debt payoff, and compounded interest...which decreases the actual buying power of the dollar. If a dollar's worth, now pays off 20% of the debt, it would now take MORE dollars, from the remainder(80%), to actually use to acquire the goods or services....and at this juncture, the dollar has lost over 30% of its actual buying power, of the last few years. Anyone here, over 50, in America, can remember back when gasoline was 21-28 cents a gallon. Now its over $4.00/gal....and NOT all of it is just for higher production costs. The shocker may be for a lot of people, is that when WE have some of the largest oil reserves in the world, we don't tap them....Now the 'goodie-two-shoes Left' will tell you its about saving the environment..which was the bullshit they have to swallow, then believe....Closer to the truth, is we've been using our natural resources, and infrastructures as collateral for the borrowing!!..Don't you just love those 'patriotic' international globalist bankers??!!??...and by the way, if China comes over to get our oil, they won't give a flying fuck in a rat's ass, about your fantasy environmentalist's bullshit! That was just a cover story...and a lot of you gobbled it up like a kid in a candy store!.....True story!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Musket
Date: 25 May 11 - 02:43 PM

I don't wish to sound patronising Lox, but please re read what you just put.

Inflation doesn't just affect the person in the street. The largest consumer is, one way or another, the government. When I chaired a public body, I recall us getting a 3.5% increase and the press asking what we were going to invest it in. As inflation was 4% at the time, I was asking myself the same question. As the government later told us what to spend it on, as they do, we had to, with treasury blessing, blow our original budget. Hence public spending went up, hence public borrowing went up. (Not just us, our contribution was less than £5M, but add all the arms length bodies, NHS etc and it adds up to real beer tokens.)

Oh, and by the way, I didn't just blame it on inflation. I noted the rise as a contributing factor. There are, as ever, more factors in this than there are pork scratching remains in a folk singer's beard. My main gist being "don't get on your high horse over one month's figures, especially if you keep quiet on the months that public borrowing falls. Public borrowing and national debt may be political motivators but they are facts to be dealt with rather than a whipping boy when they coincide with a point you wish to put across."

The borrowing figures do not mean that Osborne's philosophy is wrong nor indeed right. That takes sustained increases or decreases over a long period. Even the Labour front bench concede that point. (Balls has the benefit of being in opposition in order to make radical claims. I note Darling was steering in the direction Osborne is going at full steam.) If you want a view from me, it would be that a little pump priming of the economy would allow a drop in the deficit through growth rather than just relying on austerity measures, especially if, Like Osborne etc on a personal level, you are not exactly "in this together" after all.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Musket
Date: 25 May 11 - 02:52 PM

Oh, and your original post mentioned the reason as being tax cuts for the rich.

really?

I don't mind saying that I am not exactly poor and I am in the 50% club, so can't complain. However, this tax year, assuming I earn the same, (which I probably will to within a few quid,) I will be £6K worse off in my pocket.

So forgive me if I snort when I read such crap. I have no real issue with it, as you have to be earning it to pay it. But be buggered if I am going to sign up to robbing the poor to give to the rich. This lot aren't perfect but they have walked to tightrope of banks and multi nationals far better than Broon & Co did, and raised more for the treasury coffers as a result.

No, I have issues with the buggers, but the real issues are with Eric Pickles and Andrew Lansley. Osborne is slowly and quietly rising in my estimation. Don't get me wrong, he started very very low, so there is only one way to go I suppose. Still couldn't vote for the buggers but at least the only ones going to Hell in a handcart are those who appear to want to. Must be great to have something to moan about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 May 11 - 03:59 PM

Mather, Osborne has many ways to give to the rich.

Inflation only affects debt if the debt is linked to inflation.

Inflation does affect expenditure. But not for governments who do not buy on the high street.

Do the sums.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Musket
Date: 26 May 11 - 10:37 AM

Bridge. Ok, done the sums.

The NHS budget through PCTs is just over £100Billion. Take out the 65% that is salaries (staying level or even decreasing slightly, depending on how you measure it.)

You are left with £35Billion.

Every last penny of that is budgeted for, using a system called local delivery plan( LDP.) The plan for 2011/12 was agreed last January ish. Inflation hits that spending, full stop. Either less is spent (politically not good as Parliament voted through the DH budget) or government has to borrow to fund it.

Now, that's the NHS. Repeat system for Local government, armed forces, etc etc etc...

Governments do buy on the High St. Keep repeating it until you are brainwashed into believing something correct for a change.

No wonder my mate keeps taking the piss out of you. I am slightly exasperated myself!

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: theleveller
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:12 AM

Here's an interesting article you may have missed. Sorts of puts it all in perspective.

http://johannhari.com/2011/03/29/the-biggest-lie-in-british-politics

For the real reason as to why Cameron is putting the screws on, you may like to read world renowned economic historian, Tony Judt's last book, 'Ill Fares the Land'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:08 PM

What Lox is confusing it with is trying to do math, in his political science class....so.....

All you have to do is........

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 May 11 - 11:53 AM

That, FFS, appears to require a password for access and if you think I'm putting MY password in on someone else's linky you are more unreal than I give you credit for.

Mather - you should know perfectly well that any increase in cost of future purchases depends on what goes up in price - for a government and for a health service, a far cry from a high street consumer.

Some things go down. For example if you need a computer of a given spec it will be cheaper next month than this.

And as you point out labour costs are falling. Unless of course you include bankers' bonusses in the cost of labour.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Lox
Date: 27 May 11 - 12:18 PM

"So forgive me if I snort when I read such crap."


But you didn't read it did you or you would have seen that it wasn't a generalized statement of opinion, but a publicly recorded fact that the tax on bonuses over 25,000 was cut and that as a direct consequence the treasury was 3 billion poorer.


You may describe statements of fact as crap if you wish, but it doesn't make them untrue.



GfS - what on earth are you wittering on about?

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 03:46 AM

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/11/20/child-benefit-fraud-checks-on-migrants-ignored-115875-23576061/

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:01 AM

And tax evasion and avoidance are estimated at?

I vaguely recollect a figure in the papers last week of £75 bn per year. My memory may be out on the total, but it was HUGE.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:09 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/25/evaded-tax-evasion-cuts

There you go. Makes the claim that maybe benefits of "millions" might be lost due to invented immigrant children look pretty trivial really.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:19 AM

"vaguely recollect a figure in the papers last week of £75 bn per year"

Note the word "vaguely" in that post. The figure you suggest has already been dimissed as rubbish by the government.

Combined benefit fraud in the UK runs into billions, FACT.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:52 AM

Try reading on the link, White man - even the government estimates - which do not include under-reporting of revenue - are of the same order. NB "of the same order" has a technical meaning.

Have you a link to your assertion that the government has dismissed any relevant figure?

Previous suggestions were that benefit fraud in total might cost about £5bn per year here http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/how-much-does-benefit-fraud-cost/3423

Even Inland revenue figures for escaping tax are £35 bn.


Plank/mote.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 08:29 AM

When you lay-off hundred of people so that instead of paying taxes they have to claim benefit, and unemployment goes through the ceiling it's hardly surprising that public debt goes up to match. Unless you believe in the ConDem fairy tale economics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK debt increasing more than ever
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 08:30 AM

When you lay-off hundred of thousands of people so that instead of paying taxes they have to claim benefit, and unemployment goes through the ceiling it's hardly surprising that public debt goes up to match. Unless you believe in the ConDem fairy tale economics.