BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned in Catalonia

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned in Barcelona
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 May 11 - 06:21 AM

The practice of banding had somehow passed me by until now. But yes, even in 21st century Britain, we can still be remorselessly cruel to animals, especially when there's money involved.

So while we can claim a small victory for the demise of bullfighting, there are plenty of sadistic practices, legal and illegal, which need abolishing.

How about starting with that annual ritual of injury and death and flagellation, the Grand National?

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned in Barcelona
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 May 11 - 02:22 AM

'Banding' is routinely done not only to calves but lambs. Judging by my poodle's reaction to inadvertent banding of her tail, it hurts *only* when it slips off prematurely.

My little daughter put a rubber band on our dog's tail to hold on a ribbon or flower or something and didn't take it off. I knew nothing of it until a week or so later when I was brushing the dog and found it. Naturally, I took it off - and was horrified at the pain she felt. I cried, my daughter cried, my dog was in helpless pain for a good 15 minutes.

A couple of days later her tail fell off and she had only a three-inch long tail the rest of her life.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 May 11 - 10:19 PM

Tauromachy is in the great tradition of those who brought us the joys of the Spanish Inquisition and the auto de fe. The mob always cheers the winner.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: kendall
Date: 27 May 11 - 08:48 PM

Consider the traditional ritual called Bris. These are humans not animals!

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 May 11 - 05:21 PM

The problem with that method is that on occasion the elastic sometimes slips from one teste. The animal is in pain when that happens. Much pain.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 May 11 - 04:57 PM

And, still, in England, e.g., when male calves are not to be used for breeding, they have an elastic band tied aroundn their "wee willies" (Kendall) until drop-off. Pardon me but, although things have improved the last few decades, we humans are still very cruel to animals (and their are other poems - via above link - in my collection on this).

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: kendall
Date: 27 May 11 - 01:10 PM

How they can call that a sport is beyond me. They weaken the bull with spears in its hump and when it is tired from the torment they let some nip fart in leotards stab it to death and a gang of heartless assholes all yell Bravo!
I figure the Matadors (Bull killers) are all trying to compensate for wee willies.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 May 11 - 12:48 PM

I agree with Fred - my poem Toreo: http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#15

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:49 PM

How in the he'll do you BBQ a falafel ??

BiLl ...... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:10 PM

I'd agree that all bullfighting should be banned accept for that which occurs on Wall Street, and on the Mudcat Forum.

And, no, I'm not switching to falafels on the BBQ.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: number 6
Date: 26 May 11 - 05:25 PM

I'm certainly not condoning bull fights ... far from it when I argue about the humane rights of the raising of, and theslaughter of the beef we eat.

Virtually all of the beef served in fast food resteraunts, and the beef sold in our supermarkets are from animals raised in the most miserable of conditions, right up until the moment of their demise. They are raised far away from the open fields. After they are castrated at an early age they are packed into corrals wallowing literally in sh&t. They are never fed on grass, but are fed franken corn, pumped full of harmones to fatten them up in a very short time. They are then shipped to the factory packing houses, prodded up a narrow path full of fear and horrifed on what they know certainly awaits them. The only good thing about it is that they are then released from their miserable, aborable existence

I have personally witnessed the mass slaughter of beef. From having the experience of this I became a vegan for a number of years. Yes, I now on occaision will eat red meat, but it is bought at a local butcher, who procures his products from small local farmers from animals that are pretty well free range and slaughtered on the farm.

Bulls who are raised for the bull fights on the other hand are raised on farms, on the range, grass fed. Their fate in the bull ring to the cheering of the crowds is comparable to people sitting around the table eating their steak and praising the flavour and texture of the piece of meat, totally oblivious to where it came from and how it was raised.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: open mike
Date: 26 May 11 - 04:42 PM

hey, equal time for the squirrels...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z2_kKAe9y0

but, seriously, there are humane bull fights in california with velcro
darts...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93582,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 May 11 - 04:07 PM

Sad news indeed. There is no finer sight than two big strong bulls in the ring matching speed and wits. I don't like that game where they stick swords in blokes wearing daft pants and waving red capes though...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: MartinRyan
Date: 26 May 11 - 03:34 PM

Hi gnomad

I remember my first visit to Barcelona - maybe 15 years ago. I was delighted that I could understand so much of the Spanish I could hear - till I finally realised that to them, it was a second language, which, as with most people's second language, they spoke more slowly and carefully than their first! The Catalans don't think of themselves as Spanish and are quite happy to demonstrate their distinctive culture, given half a chance. The degree of autonomy they now posess means that banning bull-fighting, which they regard as Andalucian, primarily, is one option for them.

A couple of years ago, I was on holidays in the Asturias/Cantabria area, on the Bay of Biscay (between the Basque country and Galicia). As ever, once we had settled into Potes, a nice small town in the Picos de Europa, we went looking for a pub to act as our "local" and found a very nice one. As it happened, it was festooned with bullfighting memorabilia. Around Saturday late afternoon, IIRC, I went in for a drink and found the clientele watching bullfighting on TV. I'm not sure, offhand, if it was "live", so to speak, or edited highlights. "Good" moves by the participants were greeted by quiet grunts of approval, "bad" ones by disapproving sucking-in of breath. It reminded me of nothing so much as a game of chess in a public park, watched over by what, in Ireland, we would call "hurlers on the ditch"!


Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: gnu
Date: 26 May 11 - 03:06 PM

No way that's gonna get done any time soon, Greg, unfortunate as it is. As for the bulls, hopefully sooner than later.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 May 11 - 03:02 PM

Animals aren't there to be tormented and tortured for spectator fun.

But apparently its more than OK for humans to be tormented and tortured for spectator fun - boxing, "ultimate fighting" (a.k.a. humnman cockfighting, USA Football, the olympics,& etc, etc.

Lets clean up the human exploitation first & then move on to the animals.....

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 May 11 - 03:01 PM

Animals to be slaughtered aren't stabbed in the shoulder muscles by barbed prods or chased around the arena by mounted men until they are "ready" for the matador.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 May 11 - 02:24 PM

To my eternal shame, I witnessed one bullfight (in Barcelona) in the late sixties. It was utterly horrific and I had to leave after one bull. (There are usually 'seis toros', six bulls) This disgusting spectacle cannot possibly be less cruel than slaughter for beef. In UK, slaughter houses are regulated and inspected. I'm not saying the creatures enjoy their final moments, but it just is NOT the same as a Spanish bullfight. The bloodlust of the spectators has to be seen to be believed, and the torment lasts for about twenty minutes minimum each bull. Ghastly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: gnomad
Date: 26 May 11 - 02:24 PM

Martin; would you care to expand on that? (Not arguing, I just know nothing and am intrigued by your comment)

Whatever the reason for it, I have to feel such a ban is a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: gnu
Date: 26 May 11 - 02:15 PM

Agreed, Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: MartinRyan
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:52 PM

I'm afraid this particular action has more to do with annoying Madrid than with protecting bulls from cruelty.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:12 PM

I hope you enjoy your steaks, hamburgers and Sunday roasts.

Ever witness 'beef' being slaughtered in one of those giant packing plants .... talk about 'running of the bulls' ...the cruelty put upon these beasts is indescribable .... more so than (IMO) than a bull fight.

Personally .... I can't tolerate any act of cruelty to animals.

anyway ... yes, it's about time bull fighting comes to an end.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 May 11 - 12:00 PM

Excellent news! Should be banned everywhere, 'fighting bulls' or 'running bulls'. Animals aren't there to be tormented and tortured for spectator fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:39 AM

Written by Dylan, and a great take done by Pete Seeger on his "We Shall Overcome" concert and subsequent album at Carnegie Hall in the early mid-1960s.

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I", said the referee
"Don't point your finger at me
I could've stopped it in the eighth
An' maybe kept him from his fate
But the crowd would've booed, I'm sure
At not gettin' their money's worth
It's too bad that he had to go
But there was a pressure on me too, you know
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not us", said the angry crowd
Whose screams filled the arena loud
"It's too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight
We didn't mean for him to meet his death
We just meant to see some sweat
There ain't nothing wrong in that
It wasn't us that made him fall
No, you can't blame us at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", said his manager
Puffing on a big cigar
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell
I always thought that he was well
It's too bad for his wife an' kids he's dead
But if he was sick he should've said
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the gambling man
With his ticket stub still in his hand
"My wasn't me that knocked him down
My hands never touched him none
I didn't commit no ugly sin
Anyway, I put money on him to win
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the boxing writer
Pounding print on his old typewriter
Sayin', "Boxing ain't to blame
There's just as much danger in a football game"
Sayin', "Fist fighting is here to stay
It's just the old American way
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist
Who came here from Cuba's door
Where boxing ain't allowed no more
"I hit him, I hit him, yes, it's true
But that's what I am paid to do
Don't say 'murder,' don't say 'kill'
It was destiny, it was God's will"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:32 AM

Hopefully it will be boxing next.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:30 AM

Ditto that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 11 - 11:26 AM

Really good news!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:47 AM

I've never fought bulls, although I've run from them as I crossed a pasture or two. I don't like to see any animal tormented, and I cheer for the bulls during the running in Pamploma (why cheer for the damnedfools who deliberately want to be chased?).

Over the years I've found that if you leave the bulls alone they'll leave you alone. Except when you're crossing their pasture carrying a fishing rod....

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 May 11 - 09:23 AM

Not so far as I know, and the Camargue is in any case adminstered from France. True the bulls aren't physically hurt, but it's always looked to me as though they are mentally tormented. If so, doesn't that count as a form of cruelty?

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 May 11 - 08:59 AM

Does this include bullfighting in the Comarge, where the bulls aren't hurt?

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 26 May 11 - 08:04 AM

Good, about time too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Silas
Date: 26 May 11 - 07:36 AM

Not before time.

Subject: RE: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:36 AM

The government of Catalonia has banned it - the rest of Spain hasn't yet.

Subject: BS: Bull Fighting To Be Banned
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:28 AM

There was an interesting item on BBC2 Newsnight last night about the demise of bullfighting. Seems that not only is it dying out through lack of support, in Barcelona it is about to be banned.

I have long regarded bullfighting as one of the cruellest sports on earth. Thank God that common sense is at last starting to prevail.