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Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question

GUEST,Katia 30 May 11 - 02:24 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 30 May 11 - 02:29 AM
skarpi 30 May 11 - 03:29 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 30 May 11 - 03:44 AM
MartinRyan 30 May 11 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,Willa 30 May 11 - 05:32 AM
Fred McCormick 30 May 11 - 06:36 AM
MartinRyan 30 May 11 - 06:43 AM
MartinRyan 30 May 11 - 06:56 AM
threelegsoman 30 May 11 - 07:32 AM
GUEST,Katia 30 May 11 - 01:30 PM
MartinRyan 30 May 11 - 01:48 PM
Steve Gardham 30 May 11 - 02:46 PM
MartinRyan 30 May 11 - 03:36 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: GUEST,Katia
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:24 AM

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as Gaelic *verses* for this song?

I am entering an Irish vocal competition that has both sections for Irish songs in English and in Gaelic. I was going to enter both, but the Gaelic song I wanted to sing is Siuil a Ruin (there is a list of songs that competitors must choose from and the other three in Gaelic just didn't speak to me).

I have never found a source for any verses in Gaelic, only in English, and even found one site that says Gaelic verses don't exist for the song. However, I found it strange that the song would be included on the Gaelic list for the competition if only the refrain is actually in Gaelic, so I emailed the organizer. She said she thought that yes, the judges would be expecting to hear the verses in Gaelic as well. I don't know if that's truly correct or if she is just not familiar with the song. So I'm scouring the web to see if I can find verses in Gaelic.

I see on an old thread that Philippa had posted some Gaelic words, though the chorus is slightly different.
Click here
I am wondering if I could get away with using those words if I can figure out the pronunciation, perhaps by substituting the more well-known "Siuil a Ruin" refrain...I considered taking both sets of verses (Gaelic and English) and outright asking the judges when I go before them if they're looking for Gaelic or English verses.

But does anyone know if there are actual Gaelic verses associated with the "Siuil a Ruin" refrain? Because I'd also hate to use the above verses and then be asked exactly what song I'm trying to sing if they're not the ones the judges are expecting!

(This is becoming so much of a pain I may just either pick another song or not enter the Gaelic section, but I figured I'd ask)

Thank you!!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:29 AM

Katia, the language for the chorus of Siuil a Ruin is Irish.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: skarpi
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:29 AM

so do we have the verses in Irsh ?
kv SKarpi


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:44 AM

I think we do... a translation at least. I'm not sure if a traditional Irish version still exists.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:46 AM

GUESTKatia


The set of Irish/Gaelic words given by Philippa in the older thread is fine (and relatively well known) but you may need to think carefully about using them if you don't speak Irish. Working from a phonetic version or trying to imitate a recording by an Irish speaker may make it difficult to get much "expression" into your singing. Singing the English language set in an appropriate style and putting a good deal of effort into getting the Irish/Gaelic chorus to sound right may be the best compromise.

Good luck with your efforts in the comptetition, anyway!

Regards

p.s. If I get a chance later today, I'll see if I can find some online recordings that might help.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: GUEST,Willa
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:32 AM

You may find something useful here

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=siuil+a+run&aq=0&oq=siui


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:36 AM

There is a version in Irish, under the title Siubhal A Gradh, in Hanigan and Clandillon, Londubh and Cairn; Songs of the Irish Gaels. Oxford UP. 1927.

Unfortunately, the text is old Irish script, which means it's unscannable as text, otherwise I'd have been glad to include the words.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:43 AM

Thanks Fred - I shoulda thoughta dat! I'll have a look at that version and see how much it compares with Philippa's

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:56 AM

Philippa's version consists of three verses from the five given in Songs of the Irish Gaels, rendered in modern irish spelling and script and with some small changes of angle i.e. use of second person where the other uses third etc.

The notes in the text are slightly confusing but imply that these are "Dr. Douglas Hyde's Gaelic words" i.e. that Hyde collected this set. I'll check later.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: threelegsoman
Date: 30 May 11 - 07:32 AM

It is a song that is done by Anne-Marie Murphy here in the Isle of Man and the following will take you to a YouTube video of her singing it. The verses are in English except for the last line in each. The chorus is in Erse.
It may be of help to you.

Anne-Marie Murphy singing Siúil a ruin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: GUEST,Katia
Date: 30 May 11 - 01:30 PM

Right, that's the problem. It doesn't sound like it'll be good enough to sing the verses in English, if the competition organizer is to be believed, but as you've all stated, that's the only way I know of to do it. But, I also don't know if the judges are familiar enough with any Gaelic verses they may be expecting to notice if I were to use Philippa's version (in case that's not the same version they know) or not.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 01:48 PM

GUESTKatia

I wouldn't worry about the judges knowledge of particular verses - not even the number of them! It is quite common to sing "cupla bhearsa" i.e. a few verses of traditional songs in Irish.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:46 PM

The regular stanzas mostly are found in early Scots songs. It appears to be Macaronic in the Irish version.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Another 'Siuil a Ruin' question
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:36 PM

I wrote earlier:

The notes in the text are slightly confusing but imply that these are "Dr. Douglas Hyde's Gaelic words" i.e. that Hyde collected this set.



In the Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society for 1912, there is a local Waterford variant of the macaronic song, followed by the note:

.... Mr. A.P. Graves has written beautiful words, founded upon all its existing ones and translated into Gaelic by Dr. Douglas Hyde....

There then follow Hyde's seven verses in Irish. These are fairly loosely adapted from Graves's version in The Irish Song Book (1895?)

So Hyde translated a collated version of the macaronic, in effect.

Regards


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