Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: GeorgeH
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 01:27 PM

murray: some examples, please?

Bert: the essential difference is one of power!

Yes, it's scary. And I don't know enough about the workings of your Gvmt to comment sensibly. Although to me the obvious answer/question is "what cultural crisis?". Has the learned senator actually defined that?

G.

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: Bert
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 01:18 PM

It is kind of scary. But I'm asking myself - Just HOW does this differ from what WE are doing in the "Bad Music" thread???

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: paddymac
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 01:05 PM

jO 77: love the subtlety in "Mall Wart". It's one of the best!

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 12:37 PM

I didn't join any outcry after the killings in Littleton, but I'll state for the record that shooting people who are minding their own business is bad, including in Baptist churches.

I think we're unanimous that the large increase in the rate of violent crime during this century is a true problem with our culture (and that the more-or-less leveling off or even small decrease in the past decade is a good sign).

Of course, this subject is under intensive study. Which is not to say I know the answer. But it is to say that a Senate committee might not do anything useful. I can hardly see how even... well... how anyone could describe censorship as a "means of cultural renewal".

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: Jon W.
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 10:59 AM

PS. Where's the outcry on the Baptist church shooting in Ft. Worth? or aren't eight dead people enough to worry about?

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: Jon W.
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 10:54 AM

Wow. Wasn't it just a year ago we were wringing our collective hands over school shootings in Littleton CO? Now we're saying that the American culture isn't degraded? Some folks want to put filters on the Internet access a public libraries (not remove violent and obscene sites from the Internet altogether, mind you, just make it more difficult for kids to get to them when possibly outside direct parental supervision) and the cry goes up "Censorship, Censorship!" as if that were the ultimate evil. Pornography, besides being extremely degrading to women, is IMHO, a very potent destroyer of marriage (or equivalent relationships) so yes, I think it ought to be fought with any energy we can use, and on all fronts. I'm not saying the government ought to do it - society as a whole ought to. I do not confuse government with society. That is an attitude I find more in keeping with the liberal philosophy than the conservative. So don't go maligning conservatives by including among them Prof. Lowenthal, if his statement quoted above is any indication of his views in general. No, the state should not be our nanny but inasmuch as it is monopolizing the educational system (though forced taxation) as well as the libraries of the land, it ought to at least be sensitive to community standards. Or does the voice of the people no longer count in America?

Jon W.

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From:
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 07:38 AM

j0_77, It is not quite so clear who is the puppet state. The US under Regan and Clinton seemed to do a lot at English instigation that was in the interest of GB.

Murray

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 02:58 PM

You are right in some respects, Frank. I guess what I am in doubt about, this time, is the "wisdom of the people".

kat

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 02:27 PM

There was a senate resolution to make the "square dance" the national dance of America about five years ago. It went down to defeat, fortunately.

When senators try to legislate such stuff, they really run into problems. If (god forbid) W. Bush makes it into office, he might not veto some of this "moralistic" garbage but if Gore or Bradley make it, I doubt very much where any of it would become law. Even if it were, there would be many court cases challenging it by the ACLU. This is territory that has already been gone over in the past such as the court case involving obscenity and the book "Lady Chatterley's Lover" by DH Lawrence. I think it's a blow-hard prounouncement by certain Repbulcian senators to gain votes and political prominence. It comes up every now and again but the wisdom of the people usually prevails on this issue.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 02:06 PM

Hi, Jo, I guess I was awriting, when you were posting, because I just now saw both your messages. I don't know if these are old conservatives or not. My sense is it is generally Republicans (US) and conservatves in general, although as John pointed out, there are liberals who would have censorship, too.

The one who proposed the committee is Senator Sam Brownback, R-Kan. His resolution is Resolution 172.

Chas. included another disturbing quote in his article: david Lowentahl, professor emeritus of political science at Boston College, claiming that Hollywood is spewing out too much sex and violence, said, in The Weekly Standard, "Government, and government alone, has a chance of blocking this descent into decadence. The choice is clear, either rigorous censorship of the mass media -- or an accelerating descent into barbarism and the destruction, sooner or later, of free society itself."

rigorous censorship of the mass media.....is this America or China or the old USSR????

I don't care what stripes they may hide behind, this is what we have to unite and fight against!

kat

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: j0_77
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 01:03 PM

Thankyou Kat - I think what they call regression is what someody else would call progression. BTW are these people old fuddy duddy conservatives?

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 12:58 PM

I agree, John, but this particular committee was proposed by a conservative Republican(US).

I was in a hurry when I posted this earlier. What I really menat I'd like to focus on is 1. the fact that they claim we are having a "cultural crisis" in our country right now. And, the three aims of the committee, that is:

to study the causes and reasons for social and cultural regression;

to make such findings of fact as are warranted and appropriate, including the impact that such negative cultural trends and developments have on the broader society, particulaly in regards to child well-being; and

to explore means of cultural renewal

This is all relative, that is why it is so important that we maintain our freedom. what they may see as "cultural regression", I may consider someone else's right to expression.

The "negative cultural trends & developments, esp. in regards to child well-being" reminds me of the outraged rhetoric about Elvis' hips and the decline of Western civilisation. As well, the conservatives loudly and vociferously proclaim to want government out of our lives, yet advocate policing consenting adults' private bedroom behavoir and they keep pushing for more and more government rights to decide what is appropriate or not for reading and viewing.

As to their "cultural renewal", I have a feeling they mean a "regression" to "repression", which is not what I consider cultural or a renewal!

I know this has happened before. I am really concerned about it now, because I feel the world climate, as well as our country's climate, is full of fear and lack of direction, i.e. ripe for the kind of hysteria and panic this kind of committee may engender. I believe it would behoove all of us to beware, be vocal, and be "out there".

Kat

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: j0_77
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 12:51 PM

Wildone you may be suprised to learn there is a connection twixt the 'old' grey conservatives of Washington and England. Lady Thatcher comes over every year and is entertained by the conservatives - when she was in power her biggest ally was Ronnie Reagan. I suspect the UK has become yet another puppet state under Coprorate direction, how bout East Timor?

The reasoning these maniacs use is like this - We are really old - we have done it all - we know what is good for you - so doing this or that is not allowed we have been there and we know. No laughing, dancing, singing no happiness - you will obey or perish.

They are the dog in the manger politicians who are your enemy - they are the enemy of freedom. entrerprise, progress and happiness.

There are examples of em in every country in the world - remember Romania. Chile and Indonesia. Old criminals running countries. Think about it this way what kind of person would actively stifle native industry to satisfy a copropaymaster? To deny YOUR OWN kinfolk a chance to earn the money to buy food.

Mall Wart - This is the new Coporate model, imports form impoverished countries, uses child labor, stamps product with made in the customer's country, while at the same time giving the appearance of being against these horrid practices. We have been lied to for so long that we will believe anything the press/corpoworld tell us.

Mall Wart sells you a pot, for example, 10 pennies less than the local hardware store, that pot will fall apart within a year or so BUT YOU DONT KNOW THAT WHEN YOU BUY IT. Presently your local hardware store goes under - gone splat squish dead - no more. Now Mall Wart have you by the ears, not only can the sell you cheap low quality imported junk - they KNOW you cannot get anything else.

This evil organisiation is in every country in North and South America - and is making inroads into Europe as well.

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: John Hindsill
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 12:39 PM

Kat--
Not all censorship comes from the radical conservatives. In Pasadena, California a person of liberal persuasion who is running for that school board wants to eliminate books she doesn't approve of, not just from the school libraries, but also from the teachers' resource center at the Curriculum Center.
Let us not blame just our foes, but let us also condemn censorship from those we would normally agree with.---John

Subject: RE: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: wildlone
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

The goverment in the UK seem to be wanting a return to Victorian values.
History records this as,
Children working at 6 years old.Little medical aid unless you can pay for it.
But the rich can do what they want.
We will get there soon.WL.

Subject: Senate Czars-committee on culture,scary!
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:48 AM

My mentor at the newspaper, here, wrote an excellent editorial today, in which he told about somehting I'd not heard of. It could effect any one of us. So, I'd like to start a discussion and also raise awareness of what I consider a dangerous and frightening action.

According to Chas., in Aug. a US Sentaor from where else but Kansas, introduced a resolution which would create a seven member Special Committee on American Culture to invstigate "the cultural crisis facing America."

The purpose of said committee would be 1) "to study the causes ad reasons for social and cultural regression; 2) to make such findings of fact as are warranted and appropriate, including the impact that such negative cultural trends and developments have on the braoder society, particulaly in regards to child well-bing; and 3) to explore means of cultural renewal."

Chas. goes on to bring up the different eras of such panic when blues were prominent, when elvis first started gyrating, etc. He also points out that the Americna famiy Association calls the American Library Assoc. a "radical org." because librarians refuse to restrict what children may see on the Internet, saying it is the parent's job to guide their children. He also points out that the the irony that the ultraconservative AFA wants a government agent, i.e. county or state librarian, to tell our kids what is proper to read or see.

I know we've had discussions on censureship before, but this seems to be a closer reality, no longer in the abstract. It is disturbing and I believe a real and tangible threat to our freedom of expression, belief, and way of life.

The floor is yours.......

kat