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Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?

saulgoldie 31 May 11 - 06:31 AM
Jim Carroll 31 May 11 - 10:53 AM
MartinRyan 31 May 11 - 11:10 AM
MartinRyan 31 May 11 - 11:11 AM
Jim Carroll 31 May 11 - 02:34 PM
MartinRyan 31 May 11 - 02:45 PM
David Ingerson 01 Aug 14 - 03:04 AM
Monique 01 Aug 14 - 05:00 AM
David Ingerson 01 Aug 14 - 10:49 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Aug 14 - 11:06 AM
MartinRyan 02 Aug 14 - 04:18 AM
MartinRyan 02 Aug 14 - 05:23 AM
MartinRyan 02 Aug 14 - 05:25 AM
MartinRyan 02 Aug 14 - 05:29 AM
David Ingerson 03 Aug 14 - 04:38 AM
Ged Fox 03 Aug 14 - 06:42 AM
GUEST 03 Aug 14 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan gan cucaí... 03 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM
GUEST,CJB 03 Aug 14 - 02:10 PM
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Subject: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 31 May 11 - 06:31 AM

I am going to do a folk presentation at my College this Summer. I would like to include a song or story about Pakistan in honor of one of my favorite students. Does anyone know of any songs or short stories about Pakistan? In English, so that my audience can understand. Please, no flaming or Islamophobia. Thanks in advance.

Saul


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 11 - 10:53 AM

Don't know if this is what you're looking for - 19th century Irish song with referenvces to the Pakistan Afghanistan border area.
Not sure of the place - "Sutelaig"; learned the song phonetically from a singer who learned it similarly - would welcome correction.
Jim Carroll


THE MULLINGAR RECRUIT.

It was on one sultry summers day when, tired of working at the hay
I lay and watched a regiment marching by to foreign wars.
I don't know how it came about, I must have slept, without a doubt,
For I dreamt I took that shilling that day in Mullingar.

Oh sergeant A gradh Mo Chroidhe, will you swap back again with me,
For my old coat and overcoat were warmer by far,
And besides, my heart will surely break if friends and neigbours I forsake,
And wear the highland petticoat going down to Mullingar.

But the sergeant he spoke sharp to me, you might as well contented be,
You went and took the shilling down in Mary Ann Egan's Bar,
And as for those you leave behind, you might as well make up your mind;,
You've gone and put your foot in it this day in Mullingar.

'Twas then I went with grief and pain, but all my protests were in vain:
We marched through Monesterevin with a general in a car.
And when we came to Wexford Town, straight to the transport we sailed down,
And sailed away to India, farewell to Mullingar.

The heat was heavy overhead, we fought till nearly all were dead,
From Sutelaig to Khyber, till we came to Kandahar,
And those Indians were a terrible lot, they gave it to us hard and hot,
I lost two legs by cannon shot and I sighed for Mullingar.

It was on the bloody ground I lay, in deep despair, I could not pray
I cursed the day I 'listed and my joy in life did mar,
When someone near me gave a shout, I woke right up and looked about,
Thank god I was only dreaming, I was back in Mullingar.

I gazed around me with delight, I felt my own two legs, all right,
I kissed the ground I lay upon and I thanked my lucky stars,
I swore no soldiering I'd try unless for Ireland's cause to die,
King George may stuff his shilling up, I'm content in Mullingar


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 May 11 - 11:10 AM

Jim

Barry Gleeson, in notes to his Path Across the Ocean CD has "Sutlej" for that placename. No source given - other than Roisin Gaffney!

Offhand, I can't think of any old print source..

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 May 11 - 11:11 AM

Sutlej River


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 11 - 02:34 PM

Hi Martin,
Thanks for that - makes sense, though not sure I could make in scan with the tune I know.
I got it from Tom Munnelly who, I think, got it from one of his field singers - never got round to asking him if he knew - now, sadly, too late.
Perhaps I'll ask Barry Gleeson the next time I find myself unable to get out of visiting Dublin!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 May 11 - 02:45 PM

Jim

I'm sure the squaddies mangled the pronunciation at the best/worst of times! Looks like that was the area intended, though.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: David Ingerson
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 03:04 AM

Thanks, Jim, for posting the words to that song and Martin, for the correction.

My question (and maybe I should be asking Joe or another of the Mud elves) is this: About ten or twelve years ago I was searching Mudcat to answer the same question Jim had about Sutlej when I found words to a variant called "The Dream in Castlebar." (At least that's how I remember it.) It was essentially the same song. The thing is that it had another verse between Jim's (Tommy's--I got it from him, too. Thanks, Tommy. RIP) first and second verses, which explained why the beginning of the second verse seemed to be a continuing part of a conversation.

Foolishly, I did not copy it immediately, and when I went back for it a year or so later, I could find no trace of it, in spite of searching by distinctive phrases in the song.

My question (finally) is: Does anyone know that other verse? That other song? Where in the Mudcat netherworld might that file be crouching?

I'd love to find it.

Cheers,

David


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: Monique
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 05:00 AM

Take me back to Castlebar thread.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: David Ingerson
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 10:49 AM

Thanks for trying, Monique, but it's not the same song.

Cheers,

David


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 11:06 AM

David,
I'm fascinated to learn about the extra verse - I've certainly never come across it, but then again, I've never managed to find anything other than Tom's version.
I'd be fascinated to learn if you come across one.
It's a song I've always enjoyed singing and listening to, though I have found it needs to be sung sparingly, for your own and for your audiences sake.
It's full of ironic humour and human observation, but its impact hinges around the 'dream' revelation at the end - you can 'overtell' a good song as much as you can a good joke.
I wouldn't hesitate to add an extra verse, as long as it didn't 'anticlimax' the 'punch-line, so to speak.
I hope to be visiting the Irish Traditional Music Archive in Dublin before too long; I'll make a point of asking there when I do
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:18 AM

Interesting indeed, David.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 05:23 AM

The Castlebar version is in the DT alright:
Click here

Who was/is FB - the source?

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 05:25 AM

Incidentally - I'm not sure, offhand, if there was a significant barracks in Castlebar. There certainly was in Mullingar - it features in several songs.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 05:29 AM

There was, indeed, a major barracks in Castlebar, of appropriate vintage:

Click here

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: David Ingerson
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 04:38 AM

Wow! Thanks, Martin. I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I'm glad you were able to find it.

It's interesting how memory plays tricks on you (or, rather, me), for I remembered it as a segue into the conversation in the other second verse. Ah well, it sure expresses some traditional Irish sentiments.

It's also interesting to note some of the little differences, such as "kissed the sod of Ireland" for "kissed the sod I lay upon," and "cursed the day I went away" for "cursed the day I listed." There are rhyming as well as semantic considerations.

And then there's "mo chrom." Could that be a reference to Crom Dubh? Is the narrator calling the sergeant his god (or authority)(as in the phrase "in ainim chroim").

Anyway, thanks again. Great find!

And Jim, your thoughts about it are spot on. I think I went the singing-it-too-often route for one stretch, when one of the singers said that it must be my signature song. And I also learned the hard way not to introduce it as a song with a surprise ending. Guess what--no surprise. Otherwise, it takes almost everyone by surprise. I sang it once at a party of writers to illustrate that when used skillfully, even cheap techniques (such as "and then I woke up") can be effective.

I'll be at the Frank Harte this time. Hoping to see you both there.

Cheers,

David


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: Ged Fox
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:42 AM

The problem is that old songs in English about Pakistan are almost certain to relate to soldiering in the days of the Raj.

Kipling's "Ballad of East and West" (which is set in Pakistan) might be acceptable, with its message that, while different languages and customs can be barriers, those barriers can be transcended by a common purpose and courage.




They have looked each other between the eyes, and there they found no fault,
They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on leavened bread and salt:
They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on fire and fresh-cut sod,
On the hilt and the haft of the Khyber knife, and the Wondrous Names of God.
The Colonel's son he rides the mare and Kamal's boy the dun,
And two have come back to Fort Bukloh where there went forth but one.

And when they drew to the Quarter-Guard, full twenty swords flew clear—
There was not a man but carried his feud with the blood of the mountaineer.
"Ha' done! ha' done!" said the Colonel's son. "Put up the steel at your sides!
Last night ye had struck at a Border thief—to-night 't is a man of the Guides!"


Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the two shall meet, Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho' they come from the ends of the earth.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 12:32 PM

Hi Dave!
Given the lost rhyme, I reckon "chrom" is a typo!

Will miss Frank Harte weekend this year - off teaching English in Spain.

Best wishes.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan gan cucaí...
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM

Apologies for the anonymity.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs or Stories about Pakistan?
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 02:10 PM

The Corrie Folk Trio - a Scottish folk group - had a Pakistan folk tune (or more) in their repertory. They claimed that some Scottish tunes (only Scottish?) have a resemblance to Asian folk tunes. That's a moot point but see.

I have it on tape from - but cannot find it online.

==

They also have a song: "Land of the Pakistanis" (aka Scotland)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15iC5Pm4sdc

Land o' the purple heather.
Land o' the dirty weather.
Land where the midges gaither, Scotland the Brave.
Land o' the Pakistanis,
Andy Capp and Saturday sannies.

==

In the Scottish session's scene there is a tune (or dance) called Trip to Pakistan.

http://www.musicscotland.com/cd/alasdair-fraser-natalie-haas-in-moment.html

==


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