Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 02:36 PM

Thanks again to all. Am so looking forward to listening to them this week.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 07:02 AM

And for the story behind the tune:

St Paul Island

Look for the list of shipwrecks. Paul Cranford, the composer of the tune, was a lighthouse keeper there for 15 years.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 06:54 AM

Here's the notation for my current favourite of the tunes I listed:

The Graveyard of the Gulf

There is also a piano MP3 there. David Greenberg plays it slower and with one note different, making a modal cadence at the first time round the second part. I prefer his version - also his playing is phenomenal.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: ScottishVoice
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 04:13 AM

Auld Robin Gray played by Paul Anderson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvGc4kWwPcY

Neil Gows Lament for the death of his second wife (about 3.45 in)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQqxQpCM5mY

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 08:03 PM

There are far more Scottish slow airs for the fiddle than from anywhere else. Here are a few, on Spotify.

Hector MacAndrew's "Gight Castle" played by Paul Anderson
http://open.spotify.com/track/1haIfBmyO2uCTOhtkLRMxt
or by David Greenberg
http://open.spotify.com/track/5nR2pW32PzdTIyDIAdAM1U

"Sitting in the Stern of a Boat" played by Ron Gonnella
http://open.spotify.com/track/0gwGIj5rY69Nh5iGPHKU6P

Scott Skinner's "Corgarff Castle" played by Ron Gonnella
http://open.spotify.com/track/6Vgrr0Nfh7uddydYoKXW6h

William Marshall's "Lament for Sir Harry Niven Lumsden" played by Ron Gonnella
http://open.spotify.com/track/23dPowSksWtDUWEcZa3flj

Paul Cranford's "The Graveyard of the Gulf" played by David Greenberg - the Graveyard is the location of many shipwrecks in the Gulf of St Lawrence (nb for anyone trying to follow this: he uses funny scordatura tuning)
http://open.spotify.com/track/6bNZoLOlhmVDn2yoGLHhrH

"The Fisherman's Song for Attracting Seals" played by David Greenberg
http://open.spotify.com/track/7flS8dIZwxjaa8RTrMuy2m

"Mrs Hamilton of Pencaitland" played by Willie Hunter
http://open.spotify.com/track/0h0iHjhaZPndgeQSertPU7

"I Will Return to Kintail" played by Alasdair Fraser
http://open.spotify.com/track/4l9UzpaAuVJqvyAyV4aUNY

"A Mhaighdean Mhara" played by Alasdair Fraser (mindless guitar wibble, presumably by Tony McManus, until 1:20 or so)
http://open.spotify.com/track/0TiRo1BZD1ThOz4iba0l8Woran

"Macintosh's Lament" played by Bonnie Rideout
http://open.spotify.com/track/75qUBecxWv08YszQwH8QWR

"Lamentation for the Fallen Heroes of Waterloo" played by Bonnie Rideout
http://open.spotify.com/track/0dew5tNJC5lLJq2cYbDM7O

"Seal Songs" played by Bonnie Rideout (including "The Fisherman's Song For Attracting Seals" again)
http://open.spotify.com/track/2qHWZmNYUViV3ZAardXm02

"I will Return to Kintail" aka "Cro Kintaile" (why???) played by Bonnie Rideout
http://open.spotify.com/track/3RjxeTQLMhe80xBuXiMLQO
(I prefer Angus Grant Sr or Farquhar MacRae in this, but can't find their versions on the web)

"Lament for the Bishop of Argyll" played on wire harp by Simon Chadwick (Bonnie Rideout's fiddle version is better but I can't find it, but Chadwick's suggests you could do a weird segue straight into "The Fisherman's Song for Attracting Seals" if you wanted)
http://open.spotify.com/track/0csAVCWmpJYjuIfLrGMqPz

"Nathaniel Gow's Lament for his Brother" played by Jordi Savall on the viol
http://open.spotify.com/track/49qed0n0n4n2C9LYm7waeI

Niel Gow's "Lament for Sir James Moray of Abercairney" played by Chris Norman on the flute (originally for the fiddle)
http://open.spotify.com/track/4TEye3BQIJmxVBfG72RFIC

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 08:01 PM

"All the Tunes in the World" is a song written by Ewan McVicar to the tune of Southwind. Lovely tune.
"Tunes' and "songs" - as has been mentioned on another thread iTunes has them all as "songs".
Just go with whatever feels right (and although it's also a song) how about "An Ataireachd Ard" - the High Surge of the Sea?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 06:30 PM

suegorgeous,

On reading your clarification, Cape Clear on the McGlynn & Casey album may be close to what you want, as recommended by michaelr earlier.

Definitely worth a listen.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 06:02 PM

"I have heard the tune played on hammered dulcimer, mountain dulcimer, guitar and Celtic harp but cannot recall having heard a version played on the fiddle." Arkie says about the tune 'Southwind'.

The first time I ever heard this gorgeous tune was when Eugene O'Donnell played it on the violin. He was with Mick Moloney at the time some years back when they were the Guest Artists at the Alaska Folk Festival.

I understand that Eugene O' has since retired home to Ireland.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 05:50 PM

Borrow Chieftains albums from friends or a library and you'll find plenty of old airs which would fit the bill, ones which are largely divorced from familiar song settings. "Women of Ireland" was one of the first tunes which popped into my mind, but sadly for your purpose, it immediately reminds one of the movie "Barry Lyndon", and the Chieftains recording of it was played to death, so that it might elicit "not again" groans. I learned "South Wind" from a Chieftains album, too (though I usually play it on concertina rather than fiddle)--sadly, it's another tune so familiar that it might get NAGs.

Another rich mining ground is YouTube. Search for versions of tunes recommended above, and once you find a fiddler you like, check out other tunes posted by the same user or of the same artist. I've discovered lots of hidden gems that way. I recommend that you search YouTube using Google--it stays more focused on what you request than does YouTube's twisted search algorithm--, for instance, with:

site:www.youtube.com lament fiddle
site:www.youtube.com "slow air" [don't neglect the grouping quotes on set phrases]

To keep the searches even more focused, you can try combining with keywords like "selchie", "silkie", "mermaid", "sea", "Aly Bain", "Natalie McMaster" "Kevin Burke"... You'll be amazed what you turn up; my first find was this kid (makes me envious):
Neal Pointon: "Lament for O'Donnell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS6gtfNSJ1E

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 03:52 PM

That narrows it down a bit gorgeous. Try My Lagan Love, aka the Belfast Maid.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Arkie
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 02:49 PM

Southwind is a gorgeous air and while I could not say words have never been written to the tune, if they have been they would not be so familiar that people would think of the words while listening to the music. I have heard the tune played on hammered dulcimer, mountain dulcimer, guitar and Celtic harp but cannot recall having heard a version played on the fiddle. That is something I would really like to hear. While the title of the tune does not explicitly suggest the sea and such it could fit very well amidst songs of the sea.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 09:46 PM

Jack - I'm glad you asked that question, since I dithered a bit in my last post. So, I'm looking for a tune that:

- is traditional, mainly for copyright reasons (cheaper and less hassle!), but also because I want to record an album that focuses mainly on my songwriting, with a couple of traditionals.

- isn't a song, for exactly the reason you suggest - I want it to be free from association with any text

- sounds beautiful played on fiddle - doesn't necessarily mean it was written specifically for fiddle.

As I said, a connection with mermaids/sea/seals/selchies would be a bonus. The song (that will precede the tune) is much imbued with the sea, with a siren mention. But it's not essential - it's more a particular mood/atmosphere I'm looking for, that will dovetail with the song. While its lyrics are melancholy, its melody works better slightly upbeat - so I think a slow sad air would follow it well.

And once I have a shortlist of tunes that I like, I will be consulting my fiddle player, to see what works from their point of view.

Leeneia - I very much appreciate your help and suggestions, but I'm not sure why you think that Jack should take my request at anything other than face value. What I asked for is what I want; if I haven't communicated clearly, and/or someone asks, I can clarify; no need for anyone to make guesses. You've also made some surprising assumptions about what I want, and my song. It's not a campfire song at all. And I certainly don't want something intellectual; I want something that stirs the emotions - that is my aim with music.

To those that have kindly offered their own tunes or suggested contemporary ones - many thanks, but I'll decline this time, for above reasons. :)

Thank you - I'm looking forward to listening to all of them.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 11:52 AM

It's sort of curious how an air that has no associations with a text would be able to associate itself with anything, except by it's given title. And yes, yes I know, Port na bPucai came in off the the ocean on the wind in the story that goes with it(or from whalesong reverberating in the bottom of the boat, whichever version one chooses to follow. See also Seamus Heaney's Given Note).

Elsewhere I suggested Caoineadh Bean ui Chiarrai. Sea, horror and drama all in one. And lovely on the fiddle too.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 11:36 AM

I don't know what Judy Collins published, but the usual tune The Great Selkie is sung to these days was written by James Waters, an academic at Harvard, in the early 1950s. There is a traditional tune (collected just before WW2 and printed in Bronson) but it's rather less memorable. Here is Joan Baez singing the Waters tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZy2Q3QY0Q

We've had a few threads about this one.

I assumed that Sue wanted to avoid tunes that were associated with any particular text. There are situations when you'd want that.

How could anybody say that a certain slow air has never been sung?

Quite easily, with most fiddle slow airs. They tend to be complicated and hard to sing, so if anybody did manage to set words to one, it would be an achievement people would remember (even if, as with some of Burns's efforts, the resulting song was something only an opera singer would try).

It still goes on. There is a song by Karine Polwart using a recent fiddle tune, Ivan Drever's "Leaving Stoer". I forget the song title. It has the same range as "Danny Boy", but... well, you try singing it. The words are on a worthwhile subject but that song's going nowhere.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 11:03 AM

Jack, you are making the common mistake of giving the lady what she asked for, rather than what she wants.

When Sue asked for something 'not a song' she meant she wanted something slow and sad and intellectual that would contrast with another piece, 'a song', which probably has verses and a refrain and which you might hear around the camp fire.

How could anybody say that a certain slow air has never been sung? It might be 200-300 years old, and nobody knows how far it's travelled or who wrote it.

As for the Great Silkie, I seem to recall that the Judy Collins Songbook says the words were set to an old air. If anybody claims copyright to that, it's not legit. (If my memory is right.)

Sue, do you read music? You'll probably find that your combo will work better if the two pieces are in the same or related keys, and if they have similar meter. For example, I find with my friends that we can seque from 3/4 to 3/4, and 3/4 to 6/8, but 3/4 to 4/4 is uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 07:01 AM

Old may be cheaper and less hassle, if the copyright police are watching. With tunes in this genre (like The Lament for the Reverend Archie Beaton) you usually can't tell stylistically that they weren't writen 200 years ago.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 06:46 AM

So what if it's not traditional? Is old better?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 09:30 PM

Jack Campin,

Carolan's tunes work best on the harp, as that is the instrument they were composed for, however I have heard some beautiful renditions of some of his tunes on other instruments, and the fiddle renditions were some of the most beautiful. They are what I call "deceptively simple" tunes, and may require some tweaking for other instruments, but the end result is worth it.

My mention of the Carolan tune Michael Ward or Michael O'Connor was by way of threadcreep, for which I apologise, but it was in relation to the McGlynn & Casey CD. Nollaig Casey is a fine fiddle player, and I agreed with michaelr's choices of tunes from that CD.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:29 PM

Most of the replies you've got miss the requirements you set out:

- traditional (which Ashcan Farewell isn't, neither is Da Slockit Light)

- not a song (so not The Great Selkie - the usual tune is still in copyright anyway)

- for the fiddle (Lonesome Boatman is specifically for the whistle, as well as not being traditional; most of Carolan's tunes work best on the harp)

- something to do with selkies, the sea or seals (that cuts things down a LOT).

Which of these factors actually matters for what you're trying to do?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:27 PM

Jack - that's funny - "People of the sea" has been my bedtime reading for the last week, and I just finished reading it. Was going to try out those song/melody fragments at the back...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM

Goodness! I didn't know there were so many other melancholic music lovers! Thank you all so much for your ideas!

I'm planning to make some time during the coming week to find and listen to all your suggestions - what a treat! and hopefully find one that speaks (or sings) to me. I'd like it to be a traditional, though, not contemporary (but I'll still listen to all contemporary suggestions, just in case).

Keep them coming! :)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Arkie
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:07 PM

Blind Mary is a beautiful tune as it Rose of Avon Moor or Rose of Ava Moor.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 06:08 PM

"Ashokan" is overplayed but no less gorgeous for that.

How about "The Meeting of the Waters"?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM

Our own Kat Logan wrote a beautiful song to the tun Star of the County Down.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:34 PM

A beautiful fiddle tune is from Cape Breton:
"Beautiful Lake Anconi" written by Laughie Gilbert and played by Kyle O'Neill
It might be YouTubed but I don't know.

Another pretty fiddle tune (it is a song but is standard Irish slow aire)
"Give Me Your Hand"

"Sh'beag, Sh'mor" O Carolan (I think)

"Star of the County Down" can be done as a slow waltz.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: PHJim
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:31 PM

Here's a link to Blind Mary being played by the late Zeke Mazurek.


Zeke Mazurek's Blind Mary

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: PHJim
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:25 PM

How about Blind Mary, a beautiful Turlough O'Carolan tune?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 01:52 PM

The first time I heard the tune 'Lament for the Death of the Reverend Archie Beaton' I didn't know its name but I still 'saw' a line of mourners outlined against a dark sky making their way to a lonely destination.

Only tune that had such a visual effect on me.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 11:11 AM

Tootler, thanks for the link to your piece. I enjoyed it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:22 AM

Every tune with "selkie" or seal associations I know of is printed in the appendix to David Thomson's book "The People of the Sea". Most have no real words (maybe a nonsense phrase). Not many of them have been recorded.

This one is neither slow nor for the fiddle:

Fishermans Song For Attracting Seals

but it's a really nice tune anyway. (It works well done as a free canon, one player doing the tune straight and another repeating fragments of it).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:18 AM

Jack, many great tunes and songs get worn out because of their popularity. It doesn't make them less for wear.
Apparently you don't like it, fine, I do. You know what they say about opinions.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:16 AM

Sorry, that should be Aly Bain -- finger stutter.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:15 AM

My favourite is Hector the Hero: Jenna Reid with Aly Blain

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 08:12 AM

I love Da slockit light
(played here by Alisdair Fraser and Natalie Haas in the first part of this youtube vid)

There are a lot of slow airs that are just slow airs. I used to play a lot of them when I was first learning the concertina; I'll see what others I can dig up.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:43 AM

I have always thought that "Arran Boat Song" was particularly haunting. I don't know if there are words, so, despite the name, it might not actually be a song.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:22 AM

Wrigley Sisters play Ronnie Aim's "Heroes of Longhope"

Ashcan Farewell, bleurgh. Spare us.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 06:22 AM

One of my favorites is Ashoken Farewell by Jay Unger.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: harmonic miner
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 05:13 AM

A lot of 'slow airs' payed at Irish trad sessions are based on the melodies of songs. On of my favourites in a minor key is 'Anach Chuain' based on a song based on the poem by Raftery. Or The Lark in the Clear Air - lyrics are probably cheerful but melody is melancholy when played slowly

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 04:57 AM

There's a great, haunting tune called 'The Selkie's Song' on a record of the same name recorded By Debbie Scott. It might be just the thing you're looking for - it can be found on footstompin

Selkie's Song

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: scouse
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 04:39 AM

"Niel Gow's lament for the death of his second Wife"...truly masterful. I witnessed Aly Bain and John Cunningham play it in Skagen many years back in the Musicians bar.There was not a dry eye in the place.. Something magic happened.

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:45 AM

Michaelr, I sent you a PM if you want to check on the Mudcat personal message page.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 01:17 AM

Yeah, I saw that. I tried to find a link to the tunes for Sue and was shocked to see those prices. I have no doubt that a collector would pay them, though.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 11:28 PM

Michaelr,

If you are rich at the moment you can buy it from Amazon for these unbelievable proces:

3 new from $49.95 4 used from $45.98 1 collectible from $49.99

!!

Helen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 08:16 PM

Yes, isn't it a gem, Helen? Too bad it's out of print. I'll have to find a way to digitize my cassette tape...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 06:59 PM

Correction: The Fureys' tune was The Lonesome Boatman (not lonely)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 06:47 PM

Ditto, Michaelr. That's one of my favourite CD's, and my favourite tune by Turlough O'Carolan is Michael Ward, also called Michael O'Connor, and I think it is the second air by that name in this book:

Complete Collection of Carolan's Irish Tunes

It became my favourite by listening to that CD because I have never heard anyone else play it.

Also, the Fureys' tune, The Lonely Boatman is a good haunting air.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:58 PM

And here's one I wrote myself. In a Far Place

http://soundcloud.com/tootlingeoff/in-a-far-place

If you want to use it, PM me and I can let you have some dots or an abc.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:41 PM

Hector the Hero. Written by James Scott Skinner.

Played by yours truly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk3y3aWBIwY

or, if you want real quality, try Jenna Reid and Aly Bain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCwut-wg7fE I play it a little too quickly and would slow it down if I was doing it again, but Jenna and Aly's version is utterly gorgeous.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:18 PM

Nollaig Casey and Arty McGlynn's CD "Lead the Knave" features several tunes that will fit your bill: "Lament for Owen Roe O'Neill", "Cape Clear", and "Moran's Return".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you know a sad fiddle air/lament?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:15 PM

I always think one of the finest of such airs, and effectively playable on any instrument (though perhaps you might find it too well-known for your purposes?), is Derwentwater's Farewell.

~Michael~