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Lyr Req: Over There

DigiTrad:
OVER THERE
THE FAMINE SONG (Praties They Grow Small)
ZAMBOANGA


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Way Out West in Kansas (21)
Lyr Req: In Mobile / In Kansas (28)
Lyr Add: Way Out West in Kansas (5)
Lyr Add: In and around Nashville (1)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
The Praties They Grow Small


BobLusk 19 Sep 99 - 09:58 PM
dick greenhaus 19 Sep 99 - 11:46 PM
paddymac 19 Sep 99 - 11:55 PM
Joe Offer 20 Sep 99 - 04:24 AM
BobLusk 20 Sep 99 - 07:57 PM
Sandy Paton 21 Sep 99 - 12:29 AM
Philippa 21 Sep 99 - 06:41 PM
alison 03 Nov 99 - 08:07 AM
wildlone 07 Nov 99 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Bob Lusk 27 Dec 09 - 01:45 AM
MartinRyan 27 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM
GUEST 27 Dec 09 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,999 27 Dec 09 - 07:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Dec 09 - 07:51 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Dec 09 - 07:43 AM
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Subject: Praties & Over there
From: BobLusk
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 09:58 PM

In the "Famine Song" - Praties grow small it says:

Note: Refers to the great potato famine of 1847-1848. Oddly enough, this song is probably a parody of a song, "The Wonderful Song of 'Over There'", published by Atwill in 1844. Another case of the parody outlasting the original. In any case, there are a large number of Ameerican parodies of this one.

Does anyone know any more about this? "Over there" is in DGT as a American Southern song including a lot of the potato verses, but I have a feeling that the origional would be quite a bit different.

Bob Lusk


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:46 PM

The "original" (published 1844) as available on the Levy Sheet music site.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there
From: paddymac
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:55 PM

Bob; Dick - can either of you post the "original lyrics? This might also be a good song to ask 'catters for any parodies they know.


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Subject: Lyr Add: OVER THERE^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 04:24 AM

Another song to the same tune is the union song, Step by Step.
Click here to get to The Wonderful Song of "OVER THERE!" "A Doleful Ballad, One of the 'Olden Time.'" Here's what I read from the Levy sheet music. Maybe somebody with better eyesight (or a better monitor) can make corrections:
OVER THERE

Oh! potatoes they grow small,
Over there!
Oh! potatoes they grow small,
Over there!
Oh! potatoes they grow small,
'Cause they plant 'em in the fall,
And then eats 'em tops and all,
Over there!

Oh! the candles they are small,
Over there!
Oh! the candles they are small,
Over there!
Oh! the candles they are small,
For they dips 'em lean and tall,
And then burns 'em sticks and all,
Over there!

Oh! I wish I was a geese,
All forlorn!
Oh! I wish I was a geese,
All forlorn!
Oh! I wish I was a geese,
'Cause they lives and dies in peace,
And accumulates much grease,
Eating corn!

Oh! they had a clam pie,
Over there!
Oh! they had a clam pie,
Over there!
Oh! they had a clam pie,
And the crust was made of rye—
You must eat it! or must die,
Over there!
-Joe Offer-^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there
From: BobLusk
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 07:57 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to remember my Irish History. I know that 1847 was the big year of the potato famine. Had it started in '44 when the song was published? I don't think so. If not, what is the meaning of the song? Atwell I guess was a NY publisher? I'll have to look it up again. There was a derviation of this song collected in Vermont called Over Here. Curiouser and curiuser.

Bob


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE 'TATERS THEY GROW SMALL IN KANSAS^^
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:29 AM

Fellow I knew in the wheat harvest at Larned, Kansas, back in 1945, sang a version of "The 'Taters They Grow Small in Kansas" that was quite similar to published versions that I've seen since. The first verse is used as a chorus.

THE 'TATERS THEY GROW SMALL IN KANSAS

Oh, the 'taters they grow small in Kansas,
The 'taters they grow small in Kansas.
Oh, the 'taters they grow small
And we dig 'em in the fall,
And we eat'em, tops and all,
In Kansas.

Oh, they bake a skunk pie in Kansas,
They bake a skunk pie in Kansas.
Oh, they bake a skunk pie,
And the crust is made of rye.
You gotta eat it or you'll die
In Kansas.

Oh, they chew tobacco thin in Kansas.
They chew tobacco thin in Kansas.
Oh, they chew tobacco thin,
And it dribbles down their chin,
And they lick it up again
In Kansas.

Oh, the people never wed in Kansas.
The people never wed in Kansas.
Oh, the people never wed,
Or so I've heard it said,
They just tumble into bed
In Kansas.

Lots of versions of this to be found in the various collections. (Try Randolph, Fife, etc.) But this is the way I first heard it, and it's the way I sing it yet.
Sandy ^^


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Subject: Lyr Add: PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL^^^
From: Philippa
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 06:41 PM

In Ireland the words are 'over here', while in America they're 'over there'.
The potato blight hit Irish crops for three consecutive years, which largely accounts for the severity of the Great Famine (there were social and political factors as well, of course) So it's usually dated as starting in 1845. The blight rendered potatoes inedible; if only they were merely small. But any small potatoes edible potatoes would have had to be eaten, rather than planted as usual to provide a crop the next year.
Whether or not this song actually arose from an Irish famine I leave for more knowledgeable Mudcatters to comment on.

PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL

Oh the Praties they grow small over here, over here
Oh the Praties they grow small over here
Oh the Praties they grow small,
And they're failing since the fall
So we eat them skin and all, over here.

Oh, I wish that we were geese in the morn, in the morn
Oh, I wish that we were geese in the morn,
Oh, I wish that we were geese
And when we had found release
We could eat away in peace in the corn.

But the God in whom we trust, over here, over here,
But the God in whom we trust, over here,
But the God in whom we trust,
He will give us crumb and crust
and he'll raise us from the dust, over here. ^^^


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Subject: Tune Add: THE PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL
From: alison
Date: 03 Nov 99 - 08:07 AM

Here is the usual Irish tune....


ABC format:

X:1
T:The Praties they grow small
M:4/4
Q:1/4=80
K:G
E7F|GFEDE2DF|E2DFE2EF|GFEDE2DF|E6EF|GFGAB2AB|
cBAGF2EF|GFEDE2DF|E8||

If you'd rather hear the tune without the hassle of translating try new MIDI site

slainte

alison


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Subject: Lyr Add: OVER HERE^^^
From: wildlone
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 07:22 AM

A similar version

OVER HERE.

Oh,the praties they are small,
Over here, over here !
Oh, the praties they are small,
Over here!
Oh,the praties they are small,
And we dig them in the fall,
And we ate them coats and all,
Full of fear, full of fear.


Oh, we wish we all geese,
Night and morn, night and morn!
Oh we wish we all geese,
Night and morn!
Oh, we wish we were all geese,
For they live and die in peace,
Till the hour of their decease,
Eatin' corn, eatin' corn.

Oh, we're down into the dust
Over here,over here!
Oh, we're down into the dust
Over here!
Oh' we're down into the dust,
But the God in whom we trust,
Will yet give us Crumb for crust,
Over here, over here!

Found in POETRY and SONG - Book 4 ^^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: GUEST,Bob Lusk
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:45 AM

There is still the question of how the song was published in NY in 1944 before the famine hit?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

There is still the question of how the song was published in NY in 1944 before the famine hit?

Eighteen.... and it was the OTHER song!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:34 PM

Mr. Lusk,

You have posted less than 50 times in ten-years,both as a guest and as a member.

What is your itch - regarding the Irish?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:48 PM

"1740 => First Irish potato famine, 1740-1741, due to The Great Frost of the prior year, causing devastating crop failure for Ireland, as well as most of Europe."


"Great Irish Potato Famine, the famine in Ireland between 1845 and 1852
Highland Potato Famine, a major agrarian crisis in the Scottish Highlands from 1846 to 1857"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:51 PM

Thanks to Bob Lusk for reviving this thread; there seems to be a large group of songs with similar form, dating back to the 16th c.

The earliest verses asociated with the Irish potato famine seem to be c. 1848.
The song may have been bewailing the small size of the potato in crops 'over there', a pre-famine complaint.

It is one I would like to know more about.

I could find only notes about the copy at Levy, posted by Joe, but neither sheet music nor lyrics.

david kidd 18 songs


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:43 AM

Georges Denis Zimmerman gives this as a foortnote in his songs of Irish Rebellion

"Many recent anthologies quote wrongly as a song of the famine period Over Here (Oh, the praties they are small...). The air was learnt in South America and does not sound Irish; the words were written by A.P. Graves, (see Miss H. Galwey Old Irish Croonauns, p. 16). It was first printed in 1897, in Graves's Irish Folk Songs, pp. 76-77."

Jim Carroll


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