Frank Crummit? / Frank Crumit (songs)

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 02:34 AM

I've heard him do 2 versions of the Prune song too - the during and after Prohibition versions.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:50 AM

Frank regularly reviewed his own lyrics - I've got evidence of two recordings of the Prune song, sung by Frank, with differing lyrics. So the changes in the words might be his own revision rather than a bowdler at work.

Mountain Greenery was one of his best known too, and again, dreadfully sexist, but if you put it into context of the time and era he was writing in (between the wars, when women were still very much considered the weaker sex and ladies were not expected to do anything more strenuous than open a handbag), then it makes sense.

LTS

Subject: Lyr Add: GET AWAY OLD MAN, GET AWAY (from Dalhart)
From: Rank
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 06:26 PM

I recently borrowed a copy of "Get away old man, get away" and thought I'd post it as it has additional words to the one in the index. I borrowed the record as it also features some instrumental Jew's harp. The other side is "The runaway train" which used to feature on Uncle Macs on Saturday morning (children's programme in the UK) every other week. Don't know if it was this version though.

Crummit was definitely spelt with two m's, so are we talking about the same person? Also, out of idle curiosity, is there an easy way to find out the release date of 78 records? "Does shoo fly, don't bother me" appear commonly in American songs, as I seem to have heard it before?

GET AWAY OLD MAN, GET AWAY

Sung by Vernon Dalhart
Regal MR 346
Attr. Crummit

Now listen all you maidens, about to choose a man,
Don't take one who is ancient, get a young one if you can,
'Cos if you marry an old man, now list' to what I say,
You're sure to meet a young man, who will steal your heart away.

CHORUS: For an old man he is old, for an old man he is grey,
But a young man's heart is full of love, get away old man, get away.

Be sure to get a young man, with red and rosy cheek,
Don't get a man with a cane in his hand, whose back is very weak,
I'd rather marry a young man, with his pockets lined with silk,
Than to marry an old man with a hundred cows to milk. CHORUS

I'd sooner marry a young man, with an apple in his hand,
Than to marry an old man, with a hundred acres of land.
Don't ever marry an old man and here's the reason why,
His lips are all tobacco juice and his chin is never dry. CHORUS

Don't ever marry an old man, who's got a room of tears,
You'll have to rub his creaking joints; if that ain't work, what is?
Don't ever marry an old man, 'cos when the winter's cold,
A nice warm place to put your feet is better far than gold. CHORUS

Get away, get away, get away.
Get away, get away, get away.
Shoo fly, don't bother me.
Shoo fly, don't bother me.
Get away old man, get away.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 3-Sep-02.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: rangeroger
Date: 02 Nov 01 - 06:26 PM

Just picked a Victor 78 by Frank Crumit ( along with 2 Columbia 78's by Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys) doing "The Song of The Prune" and "Down in De Cane Break".Paid $1.05 for the 3 of them at the local St. Vincent DePauls. I don't collect 78's, well I guess I do now, but I'm going to break out an old turntable that plays 78 and try to put these on tape.

There are more there, alot of Bob Wills and Montana Slim and the lady at the store said she would make me a deal on all the 78's.I just may do it.

I would have never known about Frank Crumit if not for this thread and the Mudcat.

rr

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: GUEST,Deb (Mullin) Carbone
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:11 PM

Were you looking for the lyrics to the Prune Song. Trade you for the lyrics to Gay Caballero. deb

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Morticia
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 08:46 AM

Try sending a PM to Micca ( sorry Bill, but you would have to join first to have that facility) as I happen to know he has at least one Frank Crumit album and could tape or MP3 it for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: GUEST,Bill Sears
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 08:23 PM

Would anyone know where to get a recording of a song called "Down By The Railroad Track" by Frank Crumit? I am looking for it for my 92 year old Grandmother. All help would be very appreciated. My E-mail address is [e-mail]

Thanks

Subject: Lyr Add: I LEARNED ABOUT HORSES FROM HIM
From: Dale Rose
Date: 28 Oct 00 - 10:20 PM

I had forgotten about this thread, thanks to richardw for reviving it. I went to the aforementioned Glenn Ohrlin book, The Hell-Bound Train, University of Illinois Press, 1973, and here is what I found. I'll let Glenn take it from here:

71

I LEARNED ABOUT HORSES FROM HIM

This song, which is modeled on Kipling's "The Ladies" was written by George B. German for his old cowboy buddy Shorty Harris. According to German, Shorty Harris was a real character who rode broncs for years at rodeos and in ranch rough strings.

'Twas on the Horse Shoe in old Arizona
That I rode my first bucking outlaw.
He could throw any man on the rancho,
And how that caballo could paw.

Well, I lays down my Spanish guitaro,
It was money I needed, by jim.
I hoists myself into the saddle,
And I learned about horses from him.

Then I trails to a ranch in the rimrock,
Where broncos are thicker than men.
There was one needed tamin' right badly.
I needed a job there and then.

So I curls up my maguey so neatly,
And I hangs my old pack on a limb.
Then I slips through the bars quite discreetly,
And I learned about horses from him.

Next I wanders down into Sonora,
Where horses are horses, you bet.
There was good ones, had ones, and tough ones,
And some of them darned hard to get.

A senorita wanted one for a plaything,
A black filled with hall to the brim.
She begs me with a sweet little smile-o,
And I learned about horses from him.

Then I drifts on up into Texas,
Where horses are wild, rough, and game,
And I says to the pinto I'm ridin',
"I'll get me a good one to tame."

So I takes to the hills and the canyons,
And I waits till I'm haggard and grim.
Then my loop settles down on a picture,
And I learned about horses from him.

Well, I rides up into Wyoming,
For I'd heard of a bad one called Bear,
And I heard they were offering money
To the guy that got on and stayed there.

Well, I found him, a bleary-eyed loco,
With ears that were pointed and thin.
And from the time I stepped in his middle
I learned about horses from him.

Then I stopped in Cheyenne for the rodeo.
To win me some money I tried.
A horse you all know, name was Steamboat,
That's the bugger I drew for to ride.

Now, something says, "Mister, you're crazy!"
But my bankroll says, "Don't you give in!"
Three jumps from the time the gates opened
I'd learned about horses from him.

Now, I've heard a lot about horses,
And I've rode 'em both large and small.
Sometimes I got on and I stayed there,
Sometimes what a hell of a fall!

But they's one horse I never have ridden,
It's Conscience they call it, by grim.
But I reckon when we have the last roundup
I'll learn about that horse from Him.


I have put up the music from Glenn's book here. There are no other links to it except this thread. I have never heard Glenn do the song, but I can hear him doing it in my head, it would sure work as a recitation as well.

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Troll
Date: 28 Oct 00 - 09:12 PM

A lot of Kiplings poems are highly singable. Leslie Fish has put music to several. I met her at the Pennsic War about 8 years ago and we spent an enjoyable evening trading songs.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: richardw
Date: 28 Oct 00 - 08:32 PM

Here is the parody, a year later

From the Traditional Ballad Index at: http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladSearch.html

Cheers Richard Wribght

I Learned about Horses from Him

DESCRIPTION: The singer describes the horses (and others) he has met in his life. Every incident ends with the rueful comment, "I learned about horses from him." There is a "horse," Conscience, he hasn't ridden; he expects hereafter to learn about that horse from Him AUTHOR: George B. German EARLIEST DATE: 1932 KEYWORDS: cowboy horse humorous Gods FOUND IN: US REFERENCES (1 citation): Ohrlin-HBT 71, "I Learned about Horses from Him" (1 text, 1 tune) Notes: Modeled after Kipling's poem "The Ladies" ("I Learned about Women from Her"). - RBW File: Ohr071

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: arkie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:04 PM

I first learned of Frank Crumit from Glenn Ohrlin, a local rancher and an authority on authentic cowboy songs. He also sings Gay Caballero and I Learned About Women From Her and was fond of Frank Crumit's music. That perked my interest, but I certainly can add nothing to what has already been posted. Thanks to all for the information on Mr. Crumit. I have really enjoyed this. My World Reknown Folklorist acquaintance proposed a Frank Crumit issue to Collector's Choice Music, but they did not think there was a market. Wonder what would happen if the company was inundated with requests for a Frank Crumit recording?

An aside on the I Learned About Women from Her. There is a parody which starts I've taken the nags as I found them. I have never been able to get Glenn interested in it. He is kind of particular about what he will sing or play.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Stewie
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:42 AM

Obviously, then, like so many other 19th century poems and songs, the Kipling poem underwent the folk process. Some of Reeves songs are full of floaters. Given that the Kipling poem has been identified above, who knows which of the changes are down to Reeves himself. Reeves' version, offensive though it is, must not have been considered 'too racist' in 1929 by the Okeh record company that released it as OK 45381, backing the sentimental 'The Tramp's Mother' - maybe it was considered a balancing act. The target audience of Reeves' recording was very different from that of Crumit's and the singers lived in totally different social contexts - Crumit was a popular artist, his milieu was Broadway and the north, and Reeves was a Texan, a drifter and a hillbilly singer.

Whilst on the subject of 'having a shot' at Bear Family records - an exemplary label notwithstanding a few blemishes - I too have a small bone to pick in this context. The fascinating essay on Reeves by Fred Hoeptner - it does not refer specifically to the song in question - is captioned: 'Fred Hoeptner, Los Angeles May 1994'. Hoeptner's essay is an almost word-for-word reprint of his essay that appeared in Old Time Music No 18 Autumn 1975. No credit at all is given to its previous publication in OTM. That is very disappointing because due credit should be given to Tony Russell for providing a forum for serious discussion of early country music at a time when very few others, with a few notable exceptions, were interested. A picture of Reeves graces issue No 18 and it includes a full Reeves discography by John Larsen and Richard Weize. The article also mentions the late John Edwards, the country music authority, an Australian who did more than most to draw attention to the importance of early American country music as an untapped reservoir of folk traditions.

Stewie.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Lorne Brown
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 11:26 PM

One last thing about Crumit (a favourite of mine, can you tell?) His most famous song was "The Gay Caballero" and it can be found in the data base. He also recorded its sequel - "The Return of the Gay Caballero". I seem to recall a character on a TV programme in the '60s who called himself the Gay Caballero.

Lorne Brown

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Lorne Brown
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 09:33 PM

Maybe we can settle this "I Learned About Women From 'Er". Frank Crumit recorded this in 1928. The words come from Kipling's poem "The Ladies", published in 1896. Kipling's poem contains eight verses. Crumit used five of these verses and called his song "I Learned About Women From 'Er". He thankfully left out Kipling's fifth verse which was too racist even for 1928. (Also the second verse which contains the unfortunate line "The things you will learn from the yellow and Brown/They'll help you a lot with the White!") (Good for Frank!) He left out Kipling's last verse, which contains a famous Kipling quote: "For the Colonel's Lady and Judy O'Grady/Are sisters under their skins!" I, personally, think Crumit chose wisely; his five verses tell the story nicely. I do miss the famous quote, though.

The music was composed by Frank himself, and is a beautiful tune. I sing this song often, but rarely (never?) in public, which is probably cowardice on my part, because it is a lovely song reflecting another age.

The lyrics quoted by Art Thieme are correct, other than misspelled placenames (Prome, Meerut)and the wrong phrase I mentioned earlier (jemadar-sais). The lyrics quoted by Stewie are incorrect. (Correct, by the way, means that they are Kipling's lyrics.) Bear Records' attributing the song to Geobel Reeves is horribly wrong and is a slight to both Kipling and Crumit, and is unworthy of Bear Records.

Lorne Brown

Subject: Lyr Add: I LEARNED ABOUT WOMEN FROM HER (G Reeves)
From: Stewie
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 07:32 PM

Goebel Reeves, The Texas Drifter, recorded 'I LEARNED ABOUT WOMEN FROM HER' in San Antonio on 26 June 1929. In the Bear Family reissue of his work, the song is credited to Reeves. Reeves worked for a time as a merchant seaman. The lyrics differ significantly from those provided above by Art:

Now I've picked up my fun where I found it
I've ranged and I've roamed in my time
I've had my share of sweethearts
And four of the lot were prime
One was a half-caste widow
And one was a widow from Prome
And one was the wife of a Jemadar-sais
While one was a girlie from home

Not I'm not so much with the ladies
But taking them all the way 'long
You never can tell 'til you've tried 'em
And then you are like to go wrong
There are times that I thought that I might have
And times that I knew that I might
But the more you learn about the yellow and brown
Will help you a heap with the white

Now I was a young one at Ogli
Shy as a girl to begin
But Aggie Decaster she made me
Now that girl was as clever as sin
Older than me, but my first one
More like a mother she were
She showed me the way to promotion and pay
And I learned about women from her

Then I was transferred to Burma
Was acting in charge of a bazaar
There I got me a teeny-lipped heathen
From buying supplies off her pa
Funny and yellow but faithful
A doll in a teacup she were
We lived on the square like a true married pair
And I learned about women from her

Then I was transferred to Neemuch
Or I might have been keeping her now
Then I got me a shiny she-devil
The wife of a nigger at Mnow
She taught me the gypsy folks bollee
A kind of volcano she were
She knifed me one night when I wished she was white
And I learned about women from her

Then I came home on a steamer
'Twas long with a girl of sixteen
A girl from that convent at Meerut
The squarest I ever have seen
Love at first sight were her trouble
She didn't know what it were
I couldn't do such, 'cause I loved her too much
And I learned about women from her

Now I picked up my fun where I found it
Now I must pay for my fun
The more you learn about others
The more you settle to one
So in the end I'm sitting and thinking
And dreaming of hellfire to see
So be warned of my lot, which I know you will not
And learn about women from me

From Goebel Reeves 'Hobo's Lullaby'Bear Family BCD 15 680

It's little wonder that the lyrics changed over time, at least on recordings! As Art says, it is hardly PC today, but in the recording of folk material there is no place for bowdlerism.

Stewie.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Lorne Brown
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 02:16 PM

Art - I think the phrase is "jemadar-sais", which means head groom.

Lorne Brown

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LADIES (Kipling, from Jim Kweskin)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 12:36 PM

from the singing of Jim Kweskin--1973--when we shared a gig at a folk club in a building that had once been a synogogue---Charlotte's Web in Rockford, Illinois. Jim said it was by Kipling and from a 78rpm record by Frank Crumit, but while I have heard Crumit's recording of this song (and have it on a cassette of my favorite songs) I've not seen it collected in any collection by Rudyard Kipling. As I've said, it's not P.C. now, but it is a great song; just one more paradox of our unique times.

Art Thieme

----------------------------------------------------

I've taken my fun where I found it,
I've rogued and I've ranged in me time,
I've had me pickin' of sweethearts,
Four of the lot was prime.One was a half-caste widow,
One was a woman at Brome,
One was the wife of a gemidore seise, (barber)
And one was a girl at home.

I was a young 'un at Oogli,
Shy as a girl to begin,
Aggie DeCastra she made me,
And Aggie was clever as sin,
Older than me, but my first 'un,
More like a mother she were,
Showed me the way to promotion and pay,
And I learned about women from her.

Then I was ordered to Burma,
Actin' in charge of bazaar,
And I got me a tidy live heathen,
From buyin' supplies off her pa,
Funny and yeller and faithful,
Like a doll in a teacup she were,
But we lived on the square like a true married pair,
And I learned about women from 'er.

Then I come home on a trooper,
Along with a kid of 16,
A girl from a convent at Mirit,
The straightest I ever have seen,
Love at first sight was her trouble,
She didn't know what it were,
But I couldn't do such, 'cause I liked her too much,
But I learned about women from her.

So I've taken my fun where I found it,
Now I must pay for me fun,
For the more you have known of the others,
The less you will settle to one,
In the end of it sittin' and thinkin',
And dreamin' hell fires to see,
So be warned by my lot---which of course you will not,
And learn about women from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 08:35 PM

Here's an RA of Frank Crumit singing Oh Baby! (Don't Say No, Say Maybe) There are lots of other good things from the 20s and 30s on the page, too.

And here's where you can find a Frank Crumit CD. I have never dealt with them, but they have been around a good while, so I would assume that they are reputable. I am sure there are other sources as well.

As far as the info I have on Frank Crumit, it's been outdone by others, especially M.Ted, so there is no need to post it.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 07:54 PM

Joe,

"I Learned About Women From Her" was the song's title--although I seem to remember Kweskin calling it simply "The Women".

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Lorne Brown
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 05:25 PM

Glad to hear people talking about Frank Crumit. (Note: one m) I have a ton of his songs on record (now CDs) and consider him to be one of the pioneers at getting folk music on record and on the air, thus paving the way for the first revival of Seeger, Guthrie, et al. His stock market song is a dandy, and "I Learned About Women from 'Er" was his melody, so he could create a good tune when he wanted to. AND, he also told a couple of stories on record, which I as a storyteller appreciate a lot.

Lorne Brown

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Sapper_RE
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 07:51 AM

Over this side of the pond, he was noted for his songs about golf:- Oh the dirty little pill Went rolling down the hill, and rolled straight into the bunker....... Was to the tune "Brighton Camp", aka "Girl I Left Behind Me" Did have some of these on 78rpm many yaers ago. I think they may have been thrown out when my mother died. Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 03:52 AM

It could be this one, Joe, but I think it's more likely to be this one. It contains the "N" word, as well as being frightfully sexist, but judge it by the standards of the day to do it justice, and remember Kipling was presenting the accurate view of the common Tommy, who'd been there and done that (they didn't have t-shirts then!). Oh, and don't forget it's meant to be entertaining, not a serious social document.

I've sung the Gay Caballlero with great success, and no-one gets the wrong end of the stick about it. I'd do the Prune Song as well, but my musicianing isn't quite up to filling the gaps in the words. The Pig Got Up goes down very weel too - I must kearn the words.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Stewie
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 06:45 PM

I have an old Ace of Hearts LP called 'Frank Crumit, the Gay Caballero'. The sleeve has notes by JE Miller, but these add little to what M.Ted has provided above, except that Miller suggests that Crumit's inspiration for the ukelele was the success of Ukelele Ike and Wendell Hall (the Red Headed Music Maker.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 06:14 PM

Art, click here for what's supposed to be a complete collection of poems by Kipling - which poem is it that you're talking about?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 05:53 PM

His sung rendition of Kipling's poem "The Women" is politically incorrect now---but it is simply a great song. Jim Kweskin used to sing it in his solo shows in the 70s.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 01:13 PM

Sorry, I believe it's spelled Crumit--

He was a very popular entertainer, in vaudville, on Broadway, on records, and later, on radio.He made hit records of a number of songs that are much beloved to us--such as "Abdul the Bubul Amir" "Ukulele Lady", "Frankie and Johnny", "The Pig Got Up and Slowly Walked Away", and "What Kind of a Noise Annoys an Oyster", having written the last--also popular was "There's no one with endurance like the man who sells insurance"--

He was born in Jackson, Ohio in 1889 studied to be an engineer but was attracted by the roar of the crowd and went into vaudville as a song and dance man 1913-

Move up to Broadway in 1918 for the show "Betty Be Good"--he was a big success and went on to "Greenwich Village Follies of 1920" which featured his hit song, "Sweet Lady" his first recording was for American Columbia in 1919, where he stayed until 1924 when he went to Victor Records, where he record most of his big hits--

He had several radio programs during the thirties and forties, where he performed with his wife, Julia Sanderson--he was known for his humorous material, particularly his puns, and his work with the ukulele apparently inspired George Formby,

The radio program particularly used much folk and traditional music, which he performed in a simple, unaffected style, with simple instrumentation, often only his guitar or ukukele and maybe a piano--the way that he mixed traditional, popular and novelty songs with pieces of his own composition, forshadowed many of today's folk performers in a way that is almost eerie--

He died unexpectedly in l943, only a short time after he and Julie had started a new, noontime radio program, "Singing Sweethearts"--

There are a number of CD compilations of his work, and all are worth a good listen--

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Mike Billo
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 11:04 AM

I know that he accompanied himself on the ukulele, and along with Johnny Marvin, did much to make the uke so popular in the '20's.

Subject: RE: BS: Frank Crummit ?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 02:41 AM

I've got some stuff on Frank Crumit somewhere, but it is late (early?) and I don't know where it is. It will likely be a while before I can get back here, so don't hold your breath.

I am sure Arkie has information to share as well if he sees this.

Subject: Frank Crummit ?
From: Soncy
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 01:41 AM

Anybody know any biographic information about an old, novelty singer named Frank Crumit? In various searches of dusty bins of '78's, I've found a dozen or more delightful records he made, presumably in the 1920's - for instance, the best recording ever of "The Year of Jubilo", as well as "The Prune Song", "Life is only a Merry-Go-Round", and "Get Away, Old Man, Get Away", to name a few. I'd appreciate any details or sources of information about Frank Crumit. Also, if anybody knows "Life is only a Merry-Go-Round", I'm interested to learn the verses, which are pretty scratchy on my recording. Thanks. Tim.