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Info required re: Luddites

Related threads:
BBC Luddite Lament-19 May, 11 AM (3)
BS: 200th Anniversary of 'Luddites' in 2012 (25)
Luddites & Mill Song (27)
(origins) Origins: Songs from the Luddite Period (9)
Lyr Req: Luddite Song (6)


Soldier boy 06 Jun 11 - 08:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Jun 11 - 08:40 PM
Bob the Postman 06 Jun 11 - 10:05 PM
YorkshireYankee 06 Jun 11 - 10:31 PM
MGM·Lion 07 Jun 11 - 01:15 AM
r.padgett 07 Jun 11 - 01:47 AM
theleveller 07 Jun 11 - 03:43 AM
theleveller 07 Jun 11 - 03:56 AM
theleveller 07 Jun 11 - 04:07 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Jun 11 - 04:15 AM
theleveller 07 Jun 11 - 04:16 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Jun 11 - 04:18 AM
theleveller 07 Jun 11 - 04:24 AM
Steve Gardham 07 Jun 11 - 03:41 PM
Soldier boy 07 Jun 11 - 05:47 PM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 08 Jun 11 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,guest 08 Jun 11 - 12:42 PM
Acorn4 08 Jun 11 - 03:30 PM
MGM·Lion 08 Jun 11 - 03:45 PM
Acorn4 08 Jun 11 - 05:46 PM
Soldier boy 08 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM
theleveller 09 Jun 11 - 03:17 AM
Max Johnson 09 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM
GUEST,henryp 09 Jun 11 - 07:10 PM
Soldier boy 09 Jun 11 - 08:08 PM
Soldier boy 12 Jun 11 - 05:52 PM
Arkie 16 Jun 11 - 04:48 PM
migginz 16 Jun 11 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,henryp 16 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM
Soldier boy 17 Jun 11 - 02:06 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 11 - 12:07 AM
Soldier boy 04 Jul 11 - 09:05 PM
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Subject: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 08:11 PM

Hello there.

I have been asked to help write a short play and possibly a song about the 'Luddites' as part of a themed morris event.

There's not a great deal of time to do it in so I am looking for any short cuts to information that could be useful.

In particular I am seeking:

* Info associated with 'The Colne Valley', (west of Huddersfield), West Yorkshire, England.
The Colne Valley is the setting for this event and the valley includes the main villages/wards of Longroyd Bridge, Lockwood, Paddock, Crosland Moor, Milnsbridge, Longwood, Golcar, Linthwaite, Slaithwaite and Marsden.

* The main Luddite events and the major characters involved in this area of Huddersfield.

* Any songs about the Luddite uprising that already exist (so I don't have to write one!) that could possibly be used within the play that are historically correct and relevant.

The Colne Valley has a long history of the textile trade and once had mills and mill chimneys dominating it's entire landscape (remember "The dark satanic mills"?) and was, and still is, noted around the world for the quality of it's worsted cloth.

It is also noted for the great number of weaver's cottages on the hillsides with mullioned windows facing south so weavers got the maximum number of sunlight hours to work in.

I have lived in such a cottage built pre 1850 for 29 years now and that's where it all started until the machines of industrialized mass production and of course, the Luddites, came along.

I want the play to be as historically accurate as possible with plenty of reference to local events and the people that shaped our history.

I am also interested in seeing visual portraits/drawings/depictions of events and people and photos of settings appropriate to this theme that could add to the backdrop of the event in question.

So I am hoping you can 'fast track' me to some or all of the above.

Sincere thanks in anticipation dear folks. Hope you can help me out!

Chris


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 08:40 PM

Kirkpatrick Sale, Rebels against the future, the Luddites and their ..... A much reprinted book, copies on Abebooks for as little as $1.00.
Thomis, Malcolm I, The Luddites, Machine-Breaking in Regency England. Copies reasonable.
Wade, Stephen, ed., Aspects of Huddersfield, has a chapter on the Luddite Rebellion of 1812. Reasonable.

These may be of some help. Should be copies in a good library.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 10:05 PM

This is the principal Mudcat Luddite thread. The lyrics to Duncan MacFarlane's "Rawfolds Mill" are posted there. And the link posted at 21 Nov 05--7:39 AM has oodles of information and song lyrics.

The Yorkshire Garland site has lyrics and audio of "Cropper Lads" and "Foster's Mill".

The reason I know is because I recently completed a series on the Luddites for our local co-op radio station. Podcasts available here -- scroll down to Luddites Part 4 which deals with events in Yorkshire.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 10:31 PM

There was a programme (2-3 weeks ago/19th May) on BBC Radio 4 called "The Luddite Lament". It is still available on Listen Again (don't know how long it will stay available, though). It's only 30 min, & sounds like just what you're looking for:

"In The Luddite Lament, the award winning folk singer John Tams looks back at the machine breakers of the 19th century, through the prism of the songs they inspired.

"Two hundred years ago parts of Britain were on the brink of rebellion - and you could be imprisoned for singing a song. There were said to be more troops on the border of Yorkshire and Lancashire than on the Continent with Wellington. The reason? Men armed with hammers, pikes and even guns were attacking mills in protest at the introduction of new machinery. Luddism began in the Midlands in 1811 and swept northwards to Yorkshire and then Lancashire.

In just one month in 1812 a mill was attacked by over a hundred men, two Luddites were killed, a manufacturer was shot dead and then, to add to the air of fear and paranoia, the Prime Minister was assassinated. Spies and informers crisscrossed the Luddite areas passing what information they could to the authorities - but the Luddites were notoriously difficult to infiltrate. They sang songs about their exploits - about hardship, about machine breaking and about their hero General Ludd. This programme examines the story of the Luddites using some of those songs."

Good luck!


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 01:15 AM

Roy Harris of Nottingham sang "Bold General Ludd" on one of his records.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 01:47 AM

As our yorkshire garland site has already been mentioned I would add the splendid new Roy Palmer book Working songs from Heron Publishing (Dave Eckersley of Todmorden) is a must. An older publication Victoria's Inferno by Jon Raven is a good source (check the libraries maybe)

Ray


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 03:43 AM

You'll find plenty of info if you Google Luddites Huddersfield. Try here for a quick summary.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maureenmitchell/luddites/luddites.htm

One of the greatest tragedies was that, following the murder of mill owner, William Horsfall, 17 men and boys were hung at York (only 3 for murder) and 7 transported. When the judge was asked if so many men could hang on one gallows he callously replied that they'd hang more comfortably on two.

I wrote a song about this some time ago but can't lay my hands on it at the moment. If I find it I'll post it.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 03:56 AM

BTW in his book The Making of the English Working Class, E P Thompson gives an interesting view of the Luddites that differs somewhat from the conventional view.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:07 AM

Oh, and coincidentally, I've just opened the copy of Francis Pryor's The Making of the British Landscape that I happen to have in my bag and there, on page 531 (Penguin Edition), is a picture of hand-weavers' houses in Saddleworth with the long upper windows. He also discusses the Luddites and the working practices of the hand weavers at the time when "...yeoman clothiers, who might have been wealthy farmers keen to diversify....would both supply yarn and buy in spun cloth from hand weavers."


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:15 AM

The song General Ludd's Triumph, the one which I ref'd to Roy Harris's singing of a few posts back, was posted by Teribus on 3 Feb 04, 04.43 AM, on a thread called Songs of the Industrial Revolution which I have just refreshed.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:16 AM

Sorry if I'm getting boring, but I've just remembered that there's also and excellent essay in Eric Hobsbawm's Uncommon People: Reistance, Rebellion and Jazz. Right, really got to do some work now!


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:18 AM

I haven't yet read right thru that thread, but shall do so when I come back from shopping where I am just going ~~ & shall not be surprised if more of relevance to this thread about the Luddites should be found there.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:24 AM

Stuff just keeps jumping into my mind - I now recall that probably the best account is in Christopher Hibbert's The English: A Social History. Bye.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 03:41 PM

I have a booklet 'The Luddites in Yorkshire' by James Berry, 28pp pr in 1970 at Halifax, published by Dalesman, b/w sketches included. There will be copies in local libraries.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 05:47 PM

Wow folks!
A brilliant response already to my request. Thank you all very much indeed.
I'm now going to start to look into the detail of all that you have supplied and mentioned here. There is so much already to be getting on with.

Magnificent job. Cheers.

Chris


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 07:20 AM

The Oyster band did a version of Cropper lads with its refference to Old Enoch (the sledgehammer used to break the frames).

My wife hs been looking up her family history off and on for some years and believes that she is probably related to one of the luddites killed and buried at Haslingden in Rossendale.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 12:42 PM

chris try a lady called LESLEY kipling quite a local authority on luddites wrote one or two books on the subject last time i heard she was living up CRIMBLE CLOUGH between SLAITHWAITE N BOLSTER MOOR ALAN COX


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:30 PM

The original Ned Ludd came from the next village to us, Anstey, Leics. He was said to have been a rather dim-witted lad and broke up his master's knitting frame in a sort of teenage strop rather than any kind of economic protest hence giving his name to the movement.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:45 PM

Indeed ~~ Wikipedia says ~

"...inspiration for the folkloric character of "Captain Ludd", also known as "King Ludd" or "General Ludd", who became the Luddites' imagined leader and founder...
"The incident that inspired his transformation from 18th century common man to 19th century hero of the proletariat occurred when he broke two stocking frames in a fit of rage. This incident is identified as having occurred in 1779, rather than at the time of the Luddites in the 1810s."

The original Ned Ludd was probably dead before the self-styled Luddites for some reason adopted his name for their "Captain", or "General": one of the more bizarre folkloric pieces of antonomasia or generic naming.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 05:46 PM

There is also a bit of a disntinction between the knitting frames of Leics/Notts and the weavers looms in the more northern counties, but both were subject to worsening conditions due to the new technology of the time.


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM

Hi Alan. I looked up Lesley Kipling and found mention of her publication "Huddersfield: a history & celebration" priced at £49.99 (1 used) - seems a bit steep for a used publication and is beyond my budget!

Chris


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 03:17 AM

"before the self-styled Luddites for some reason adopted his name for their "Captain", or "General": "

Actually, I think the name was applied to them rather than being "self-styled". They referred to themselves and "General Ludd and his Army of Redressers".


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Max Johnson
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM

The Cropper Lads was the first song I ever heard sung in a folk club. Les Pope's Saddletree Folk Club at The White Horse, Ripon in 1966. Sung, not coincidentally, by The Cropper Lads.

The Cropper Lads for me,
And bonny lads they be.
With lusty stroke the shear frames broke.
The Cropper Lads for me!


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 07:10 PM

Perhaps this will be useful; The Yorkshire Chartist Choir was formed in 2006 specially for the Chartist festival concert. Andrew Bibby researched and selected the songs. Janet Russell arranged the music and directed the choir.

A Song Book with the words and music of six Chartist songs and selected readings from the writings and poems of Ernest Jones, has been produced. A few copies left: Cost £2.00. Andrew Bibby lives in Hebden Bridge; you can contact him via his web site.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rushtonchartist/page7.html


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 08:08 PM

Many thanks for that GUEST henryp


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 05:52 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Arkie
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 04:48 PM

The Steeleye Span CD, Bloody Men, includes a series of songs bearing the title Ned Ludd. The notes have this to say:

"The Ned Ludd cycle begins with a song about the enclosure movement in Early Modern England, effectively a pastoral ode to preindustrial England, and then moves on to the plight of the workers who have been displaced by industrialization. The third song is an appeal to the mythical Ned Ludd to destroy the machines and lead the workers in a rebellion. The fourth and fifth songs deal with the Peterloo Massacre of 1819, in which the British cavalry charged into a peaceful crowd of protesters supporting a repeal of the Corn Laws. Neither the Enclosure Movement nor the Corn Laws were directly related to the Luddite Movement, but in the cycle these serve to explore the wider problems of common workers."


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: migginz
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 06:08 PM

Try "On the Trail of the Luddites" by Lesley Kipling. I've got Ena's copy but the Museum at Golcar might have some left (if I don't get there first).

Kathy


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM

You can find a recording of The Voice of the People, one of the Chartist songs, sung by Calder Valley Voices here;

http://caldervalleyvoices.org.uk/history/2009/concert%20leon%20rosselson%20021209.html

Surprisingly, enclosure is rarely the subject of songs. However, the walking poet John Clare (1793-1864) watched as the enclosures took place and was much affected by them. They are often the subject of his verses.

From; The Mores

Inclosure came and trampled on the grave
Of labour's rights and left the poor a slave
And memory's pride ere want to wealth did bow
Is both the shadow and the substance now

Each little tyrant with his little sign
Shows where man claims earth glows no more divine
But paths to freedom and to childhood dear
A board sticks up to notice 'no road here'

And on the tree with ivy overhung
The hated sign by vulgar taste is hung
As tho' the very birds should learn to know
When they go there they must no further go

From; To a Fallen Elm

Thus came enclosure - ruin was her guide
But freedom's clapping hands enjoyed the sight
Tho' comfort's cottage soon was thrust aside
And workhouse prisons raised upon the site

From; The Lament of Swordy Well

There was a time my bit of ground
Made freemen of the slave
The ass no pindar'd dare to pound
When I his supper gave
The gipsy's camp was not afraid
I made his dwelling free
Till vile enclosure came and made
A parish slave of me

One significant consequence of the enclosures was that taking game to feed a hungry family became a crime that was heavily punished by the land-owning magistrates. Poaching frequently features in songs, as does transportation, often the penalty for poaching.

From; The Voice of the People

Haughty lords who claim title to moorland and hill
You work men like machines in deep mine and dark mill
Renounce all your riches, to us they belong
Your power and position will fall to our song

The wild beasts of the field and the birds of the air
Were set on this earth for all people to share
If we take a hare now, you say we've done wrong
Give back all our commons, pay heed to our song


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 02:06 PM

Thanks for all your help folks; you're brill.

Chris


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 12:07 AM

I think Smithsonian Magazine had an article on the Luddites, that claimed they were an early labor movement. Anyone have any back issues?


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Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites
From: Soldier boy
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 09:05 PM

refresh


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