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Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme

Silas 12 Jun 11 - 06:52 AM
IvanB 12 Jun 11 - 01:49 PM
Bernard 12 Jun 11 - 07:17 PM
Silas 13 Jun 11 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Jun 11 - 05:10 AM
Silas 13 Jun 11 - 05:24 AM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Jun 11 - 10:47 AM
Silas 14 Jun 11 - 11:03 AM
Bernard 14 Jun 11 - 11:53 AM
Silas 14 Jun 11 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,Grishka 14 Jun 11 - 01:47 PM
GUEST,Jon 15 Jun 11 - 06:20 AM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Jun 11 - 02:32 PM
ripov 15 Jun 11 - 05:15 PM
Joe Offer 15 Jun 11 - 08:56 PM
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Subject: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Silas
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 06:52 AM

Hi
I am looking for a (cheap) piece of software that could converyt an audio file or direct mic imput into a proper score. Any suggestions?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: IvanB
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 01:49 PM

The short answer is: no.

There are a few programs that claim to do it, but they're all quite expensive and I have no experience with them. Quite a few of the score creation and editing programs will accept midi input and write it to a score, but even this is a crap shoot.

The big problem with recording to a score is timing. You may think you're performing in perfect time, but in reality each note you perform is probably a tad short or long - a process that will end up in batches of tied notes of different durations to make up the actual length of the note as you performed it. Not at all pretty on the page.

I've had limited luck with recording my midi keyboard into NoteWorthy Composer, with the quantizing set to quarter note and quarter rest. Even then, if I stray from playing anything other than quarter notes, the result is mixed. And, the truth is I'm not a good enough pianist to play for any length of time strictly in time with a metronome beat.

All in all, unless you're willing to spend big bucks (or pounds or whatever) for a program that MAY OR MAY NOT do the trick, I'd advise you use one of the inexpensive scoring programs and enter your music manually.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 07:17 PM

What he just said!

It's quicker to do it by hand from scratch than to waste time trying to put right the howlers that software will inevitably produce.

Some years ago I was involved in transcribing card books from fairground organs to MIDI... we adapted a key frame to send the output to a MIDI decoder, and 'recorded' the results using Cakewalk.

As the prime purpose was to obtain MIDI files to 'play back' via a floppy disk MIDI machine on a MIDI-enabled fair organ, the results were perfect... however, to look at as a musical score it was hopeless!

Unfortunately, any effort to quantize or otherwise make the results readable as a score rendered the MIDI as useless for 'playback' purposes, as it completely lost the 'swagger' typical of a fairground organ.

Good luck - you're going to need it!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Silas
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:45 AM

Thanks for the responses. I can just about read music with a lot of time and patience, but to write it out on a score - no chance! I tried one of these 'Audio to Score' programmes - the one that is used by Sibelius, but it was crap, but then again it could have been the way I was using it!
Looks like I will have to grease someones palm and get them to do it for me.

Thanks again


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:10 AM

What kind of music are you talking about? It may be available on the Internet already.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Silas
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:24 AM

No. Well I hope not, they are my own songs!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 10:47 AM

Silas, manually entering songs into a notation programme has the additional benefit of training one's musical ear and musical knowledge. This is all the more likely in your case since you don't seem to know your own songs in terms of notation yet.

Try MuseScore, or (if you wish to learn ABC, which is Mudcat's notation language) EasyABC or ABCExplorer. Start entering notes and listening. Good luck!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Silas
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:03 AM

Thanks, but I just cannot get my head around music theory, I have tried and tried, I just can't do it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:53 AM

In which case, enlist the help of someone who is in the know - it will be quicker and more reliable.

I can read and write music (on paper or on computer) as if it were a spoken language, but appreciate that others cannot. However, it isn't as difficult to learn as some might have you think - going about it the right way will simplify matters a great deal.

For notation I use a very old version of Cakewalk (Pro v3), which dates back to Windows 3.1... I tried upgrading to v6, but didn't get on with it - and I find Noteworthy far too 'clunky' in comparison.

I'd say a beginner would find it far more intuitive than many other programmes seem to be - you simply choose the duration of note from a toolbar, then point and click the mouse where the note is to go. You can then click and drag the note around if it's not quite right - and you hear the note sound as you do it.

You can also right-click on the note to change its length and/or pitch. With a little perseverance you'll get the hang of note durations.

The installation file's small enough to email (fits on one floppy) so you can give it a go - PM me if you'd like a copy and basic set-up instructions - but be aware that it may take me a few days to get around to it with the current workload!

As with any software, finding what you need takes a little searching, but once you learn that 'view' - 'new' - 'staff' is the way to see notation on screen, the rest is a breeze. You are, however, limited to the 8.3 DOS filename structure which can be a pain when you forget!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Silas
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:57 AM

I do thank you for this, but I have honestly tried so hard to do this and I just can't get it. Must be something to do with the way my brain has been wired up, but no matter how much I try , I just can't get it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 01:47 PM

It seems Will Fly has generously offered his services for free. From the money you saved, pay a teacher. If you are serious about your music, even as an amateur, you should become literate. Any higher degree of (let alone in) "music theory" is not required.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 06:20 AM

I think some of us always will struggle with musical notation.

I have particular problems with timing in that I can't translate knowledge that one note is twice as long as another into playing. The best I can manage is recognise a pattern, eg. 2 sets of 3 quavers per bar in 6/8 time for a jig. Alternatively I have to hear the peice to make sense of the dots. I'm no good at note names to pitches in my head either but I think that one would get faster with practice.

Of course, even with this limitation, I can get by (at least for folk music) with music software. It just can take me longer than it should and I might have to alter note lengths in some bars a few times before I get it right.

Of all the software I have tried, I'm with Bernard. The easiest I ever had to notate something from my head was that earlier version of Cakewalk (later versions were OK but a touch more complicated IIRC). The ability to hear the notes as you dragged them up and down on the score eliminates any problem with pitch and I found the input method quick (given my limitations - another person may be far quicker by just typing out text in abc...) and very intuitive. I'd say it's well worth a look.

This is sequencing software though and is not geared towards more complete musical notation.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 02:32 PM

Today there are two different approaches to the timing of written music. One is arithmetic and says things like 'a crochet (quarter-note) gets one beat and a quaver (eighth note) is half as long.'

The other approach is speech-based. To teach a person to time that, for instance, I get him to tap his foot or pat his knee and say 'coke-coke-coke' for crochets. Quavers are 'pizza-pizza-pizza'. But you can't say the words any old way. They have to match the beat you are tapping.

You have to use the right words, because different syllables have different lengths.

Eighth notes in 6/8 go ONE-lol-ly, TWO lol-ly.

Four eighth notes in a row in go 'Henrietta' or if you don't mind the smell, 'rutabaga.' This will not work in the UK, however, where a rutabaga is called a swede.

In my experience, the speech-based method works better than the arithmetic, unless timings get very intricate.

Both my piano teachers, accomplished educators, used speech to teach timing.
=========
silas, I have a friend who is a high-ranking computer professional. One day I asked her if a computer could write sticks & dots from sound. She groaned and cried, "You don't know what you're asking!"


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: ripov
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 05:15 PM

"Sweeed" might make a good minim though. And isn't rutabaga normally said (rather impolitely) as a crotchet and two quavers!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Audio to Score PC Programme
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 08:56 PM

I really like your "coke and pizza" method of teaching timing, leeneia - but do you think you could change that to "beer and pizza"?

I have found that transcribing tunes has helped me tremendously in understanding musical notation and getting a feeling for what is correct and what is not. I've transcribed and posted a lot of tunes at Mudcat, and now I can almost automatically pick out wrong or discordant notes.


-Joe-


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