Can dairy products affect your voice?

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:03 PM

I've found that coffee and ta dry my throat out, and milk produces way too much mucus, so any sort of juice is my preference.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:00 PM

"I also drink pineapple juice diluted with plain water, but they tend to run out of that."

You and WC Fields, except he did without the water.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 05:44 PM

I find the coffee served at the York and Falkener in Sidmouth (Devon, England) - milk, no sugar - is beneficial to my voice from about half way through folk week. Before that is is just nice to have.

I also drink pineapple juice diluted with plain water, but they tend to run out of that.

Grapefruit juice is too harsh, orange makes me feel sick - so there aren't many options when I am driving.

I really don't notice any difference to how my mucus membranes feel or act.

The greatest beneficial effect on my singing voice in my lifetime has been banning smoking - that has made a terrific difference.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,LADYGAGA
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:11 AM

Some dairy products can sometimes affect your voice not all ... P.S. love u fans

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 05:54 PM

Thayer's Slippery Elm is very readily available in the US; thanks for the reminder. I'm interested in the Potter's products, will be trying to find a source that's ship across the pond.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: JHW
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 03:46 PM

I found slippery elm a help for a throat slightly feeling I might cough if I sang.
I'd sent off for Singer's Secret, a spray of Aloe Vera I think. I binned it as spraying it as directed MADE me cough. With it were free samples of Thayer's Slippery Elm tablets that you suck (several flavours that all tasted the same, not unpleasant) and I reckoned these helped a voice not quite right (though then drinking water would have washed away the coating).
The packet said available in health stores but I couldn't find them, maybe in the States.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 02:29 PM

what have they fund in milk?let me guess high levels of radioctivity.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 02:01 PM

There's a good point!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 02:24 PM

Just read in the paper what they have found in milk, I think you'd be better off with alcohol!!!!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:15 PM

Makes sense that keeping well hydrated makes a huge difference.

Doing some google searches, the research indicates that dairy does not increase mucus, but definitely can thicken mucus. Stands to reason that keeping well hydrated would counteract that thickening.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 03:51 PM

norman jensen "Regarding Potter's Chest mix: Can it be found in the United States? I'm in Florida. All the Google references are in the U.K."

Potters is a small UK company without, as far as I can see, even a website. However if you go on to Amazon UK, you will find quite a few outlets for their products there. Have a look and see if any of them ship to the USA.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 03:21 PM

There are numerous medications with dry mouth/throat as a side effect. Timing is everything: If I need those, I arrange my dosing schedule so that a paying gig or formal choral performance occurs shortly before a dose rather than promptly after. That might mean being bone dry during a sound check last-minute rehearsal, but then a swig of water doesn't affect the flow of the show. I'm much less fussy for social singing occasionas when opportunities to drink are plenty. Formal choral situations I've experienced don't allow water on stage, so for example Handel's Messiah usually means at least a solid hour without refreshment. Pre-hydration and dose timing mean everything in such situations.

But sometimes I miss the mark in one way or another and have to do a gig feeling far from my best. One technique that helps is good breathing: If your throat is wide, wide open for inhaling you get maximum air volume entering with minimum contacting the throat surface. (It also means maximum lung filling in minimum time.) A pinched, narrow throat dries much faster because more of the air makes contact with the surface to absorb moisture.

In emergency dryness I have a couple of methods to stimulate salivation: One is to pinch lightly on the side of my tongue with my teeth, the other to bend my tongue way-y-y back hard as I can. These can be worked into pregnant pauses in patter, between verses or during applause, and are easily hidden by a smile. In fact if I'm singing too soon after an allergy pill, either method works far better than water, which has too little viscosity to adhere to throat and vocal folds. If I did have access to water in such a situation, I'd first drink to replenish my salivary glands, then get the saliva going (to drink water afterwards just washes it away).

I haven't tried slippery elm but I've heard it's good for mucous membranes; I've heard the same about comfrey but since I'm no herbalist, that's pure gossip.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 01:30 PM

It's always a bit of a puzzle that some performers appear to need to drink gallons of water while on stage, and others can get through at least a whole 40-minute set without ever touching a drop of anything liquid. Others I know chew gum as if their lives depended on it.
My son was telling me of one disaster he had when he took an anti-histamine for his hay fever, only to find his mouth, throat and larynx were totally dried up after taking it, and he could barely squeak out his songs, So better to sing with red watery eyes!
He also tells me he has found slippery elm to be good for the voice: any other takers of/for that one?

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: JHW
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:59 AM

All through 2009 trying to sing made me cough. Dairy product consumption was blamed by some though to be 'cured' meant not one gnats millilitre to be consumed ie anorak vegan. I am a veggie and would rather not bother cows but never attempted this absolution from Dairy and my voice now is maybe better then ever. My singing teacher does recommend avoiding milk when singing, alcohol too till after the show. Only drink water to sing with.
When I went deaf in one ear the pundits blamed Dairy consumption for that too. Old wives tale I reckon.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:27 AM

I find that chocolate affects me that way too more noticeable around Christmas time when I eat more than usual it clogs the throat. Milky drinks during cold weather tends to make my mucus build up more than it would during the summer or autumn. In the summer when I drink more fruit juices, water or beer I don't seem to get that problem so much. Whatever is in a MacDonald's milkshake causes a build up of mucus for me, another reason for avoiding it!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:37 PM

gargling with salt water is useful in my experience

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:36 PM

Just check it out for yourselves on a day you don't have anything urgent..or several days. Ask friends if they notice a difference with and without the presumably offending substances..if you are super high in the pecking order ask professional coaches or whatever. Chances are really good that for most people it is not going to be noticeable to the casual observor. Everyone has a different heritage and some do milk products really well in general and some don't. mg

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:24 PM

Does it not depend whether you swallow them or inhale them? Normally if you inhale liquids you choke! Singing after choking is quite difficult!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,norman jensen
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 07:54 AM

Regarding Potter's Chest mix: Can it be found in the United States? I'm in Florida. All the Google references are in the U.K.

thanks

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,norman Jensen
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 07:28 AM

I find that sugary drinks cause thick phlegm for me.

I haven't tested the situation regarding dairy products, but I have always heard that there is a negative connection.
I think it is probably a good idea not to eat much before singing. Unfortunately the pizza joint where we play and sing pays us in pizza and salad, so the temptation to eat during a break is very strong.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: My guru always said
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:45 PM

No idea I'm afraid Crowhugger, but I'm sure that eating anything just before you sing will strip the natural hydration you need. Adding hydration such as water helps a lot. I used to use beer, but tended to forget words too often so I'm sticking to water when I really want to sing!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:02 PM

MGAS, did the warning say what substance in chocolate is bad for the voice?

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 11:22 AM

Sure they can affect the voice.    But it depends on the person--and on the musicianship.
it has nothing to do with the musicianship.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: My guru always said
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:20 AM

I've been told that it's not a good idea to eat chocolate before singing which is probably right so I ought to stop suggesting that Catters bring it to 'MudGathers' *grin*

I tend to hydrate my throat with water before and during singing 'gigs' and I recommend sipping a glass of port (port & brandy works too) which gives the voice a boost when feeling 'raw'.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:05 AM

Sounds to me that it's a 70's thing.In my schooldays they made you drin k milk becuase it was good for you, on the other hand!! if you couldn't span an octave on the piano you didn't do music!! So basically try different things and if one works for you stick with it, it's probably all in the mind!!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 09:29 PM

That could be. I heard the same thing as you did, Janie, from music teachers and choir people during 60s and 70s. I did and still do find it much more likely I'll have thick, hard-to-rid mucous if I'm short of sleep or dehydrated than from milk or other dairy. My mother ensured I drank milk at every meal as a child and also taught me to drink water in many small sips if I had a frog in my throat of any origin. Through the years I've found that when I do have throat grunge to clear, as long as I'm well hydrated it's gone by the time vocal warm-ups are done, 30-60 minutes. Maybe being faithful with hydration and warming up is my key to successfully ignoring the no-milk or no-dairy imperative. But I'm largely wondering aloud, as I can't say one way or another with any objective certainty. The human body has so many variants, as does environment and the choice of things we each consume.

Interesting mix of experiences posted.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:37 PM

My chorus instructors (throughout the 60's - junior and senior high school when milk was a must at every meal) always admonished us not to drink milk within a few hours of concerts, saying the milk would coat our vocal chords.


My own understanding is that dairy products do not increase phlegm or mucus, but may make it thicker and more irritating.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:13 PM

Speaking for myself, to be well hydrated, properly fed and very well rested throughout the 24-48 hours before I sing have far more positive impact on the quality of my voice than whether any nutrients came from dairy or wheat or any of the other thousand things said to cause excessive mucous.

I always have milk in my orange pekoe including the day of a big singing event. I do stick to water, though, during vocal warm-ups and singing. If I can taste the chorine, I've found it'll dry out my mouth and throat so typically I keep a new pitcher of water open to the air for a few hours which allows the chlorine to evaporate. I take my own (refillable) jug along when singing, in case the local tap water is blech, since I don't buy or accept bottled water.

Rest is the #1 priority for my voice--beauty sleep we call it; next is hydration--room temperature or warmer unless the weather is unbearably hot, in which case bring on the ice! But then I'll go back to warm or room temperature for half an hour before vocal warm-ups. Enough food but not excess (no 200g bags of chips, no enormous steaks, no extremes in the sugar or salt departments) is helpful but shows its biggest impact when I've fudged the sleep category. Stress, probably because tension affects the voice, can be a factor too but rarely so when I've rested/slept enough.

Too much salt (V8 juice for example, or most packaged foods, or more than a small bit of cheese or potato chips) is far more detrimental to my voice than any yogurt or cheese or other milk products I consume regularly, I presume because sodium wreaks havoc on hydration.

As I said though, that's speaking only for myself.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM

Good Soldier:    I never said dairy products are good for the voice--only that the dangers are overrated.   Better to place emphasis elsewhere.

Sure they can affect the voice.    But it depends on the person--and on the musicianship.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:59 PM

I agree, gnu! There are many things that docs don't see that reg'lar folks like us can testify as fact!

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:33 PM

Skim milk... yup. That's all I drink and it does (did, as I smoked as much as Fred so now my voice is crap) the same thing.

As far as a doc saying there is "no evidnce", I would ask that doc if they sing.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:25 PM

The NY Times just had an item on this question:

Milk as Menace
By C. Claiborne Ray
June 20, 2011

Q. Some singers swear that drinking milk creates phlegm. True? And do dairy products make a cough worse?

A. There is no evidence that dairy products, especially milk, increase phlegm or the viscosity of phlegm, said Dr. Lucian Sulica, director of voice disorders and laryngology at New York-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center.

"The question has been formally investigated in studies, which demonstrated no increase in mucus production," Dr. Sulica said, "although subjects who believed in the phenomenon reported that they did feel more mucus" when they ate dairy products.

One of the studies went so far as to expose subjects to a rhinovirus and then, when they developed head colds and blew their noses, to collect and weigh their used tissues.

Certain dairy products may cause the reflux of acid from the stomach, which may cause vocal difficulties, and certain people may have allergies to dairy products, Dr. Sulica said, but there is no evidence of a direct, broad effect of dairy on mucus production.

The corollary to this finding is that dairy products have no effect on cough, he said.

"That said, many vocalists do indeed believe in the adverse effects of dairy products," Dr. Sulica said. "Clinically, that creates the setup to the classic vaudeville routine:

" 'Doctor, it hurts when I do this.'

" 'Well, then, don't do that!' "

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 08:53 AM

I've just looked up Potters Chest Mixture on the H&B website, and they've also got one called Potter's Catarrh Mixture. I will go to my local H&B and ask their advice which one to take.. I've suffered with catarrh and sinusitis all my life and have just been told I've now got dust mite allergy. I saw a specialist and they said there was 'nothing they could do' about the problem. Funny how no doctor or specialist has ever suggested that I cut out dairy, though I've heard so many people say it works for them. Doctors never suggested getting rid of my carpets either, though it's an obvious thing to do. Doctors are pretty useless with allergies, in my experience.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:49 AM

I am one of those chorus teachers who recommend avoiding dairy products before singing. It's strictly from my own experience- I try to take only clear liquids because I personally am very affected by dairy. I once did a straw poll of my chorus members and some said dairy seemed to have little-to-no affect, others agreed that dairy was a problem for them.

I don't drink alcohol, but when I'm singing (at rehearsals, before a concert or sing-around, etc.) I carry a water bottle with either a lemon wedge or slice of fresh ginger, because I happen to like how it tastes and it seems to help my voice. Honey is good, too. Room-temperature works best for me.

If you are singing regularly, I guess the thing to do is to find out what works for you.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:43 AM

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Ron Davies - PM
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:01 PM

I've been in a highly respected choral group for over 20 years--have sung mostly in the Kennedy Center but also in Spoleto, Royal Albert Hall, Carnegie Hall, etc.    Always ignored this advice.   Yogurt is part of my diet--every day, if I can get it.   Regardless.

Never had a problem singing exactly on key.    If you have a good ear and concentrate on doing so, you can do it without difficulty.   Far more important to know at any given point what your note should sound like, especially in relation to other voices.
   you are missing the point, you may be someone who does not suffer from catarrh problems, but I have and i can say categoricaly cutting out dairy products helps, there is nothing more disgusting than trying to sing and having to cope with phlegm/catarrh which is exacerbated by diet.
it has nothing to do with singing in key, it is about feeling uncomfortable while singing because of catarrh, it is about having to try and avoid swallowing phlegm while trying to sing.
Ron your advice may be ok for you but it is bad advice for catarrh sufferers. Ron,I am a professional singer , other professional singers like Martin Carthy have the same opinion about dairy products.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:54 AM

The replies suggest there is something in it though I've never heard it. Personally I don't have an evening meal/tea on a night I'm going to sing, just eat something very light, as if I eat much I juist don't feel I can sing well. Even on occasions when we have food in our interval I mostly avoid it if I'm singing after the interval

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 05:33 PM

Sounds right, Bernard. My sister-in-law has a beautiful soprano voice. She recommends drinking lukewarm water.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Bernard
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM

Another thing to avoid is chilled drinks - okay, it feels good, but the downside is it acts as an anaesthetic, which means you can be doing damage you cannot immediately feel... lukewarm drinks are better.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:10 PM

Yes, it's true. Dairy products increase mucous in the throat. Fruit juice (esp, citrus, I think) takes it away.

However, you have to consider your own needs. You don't want your throat to be sludgey, but you don't want it stripped and dry, either. So experiment and see what works for you.

I once read an article in People magazine about 'the throat doctor to the country stars.' He said two things I'll always remember. One is that country stars get into trouble because they don't know how to sing properly. (memo to self - learn how to sing properly.)

The other thing he said is that alcohol, caffeine, and chocolate all dry the throat out. If you are having throat trouble, avoid them all.

When I was in chorus, our teacher didn't want us to drink carbonated beverages.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:05 PM

Dairy products affect my moosic.

They never herd me so good.

Try an udder key.

My voice becomes so creamy, I could get bookings anywhere, although I don't need to cream it. Butter me up for a discount.

Look, can you run this thread again but use alcohol? More puns available.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:01 PM

I've been in a highly respected choral group for over 20 years--have sung mostly in the Kennedy Center but also in Spoleto, Royal Albert Hall, Carnegie Hall, etc.    Always ignored this advice.   Yogurt is part of my diet--every day, if I can get it.   Regardless.

Never had a problem singing exactly on key.    If you have a good ear and concentrate on doing so, you can do it without difficulty.   Far more important to know at any given point what your note should sound like, especially in relation to other voices.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:29 PM

Crows and magpies eh. You've about got it.

As Bessie Smith might have put it:

"Babies cryin' for liquor
And all the birds sing bass".

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:24 PM

Any thing that passes down your throat acn affect your voice - I try not to drink Guinness when I'm singing 'cos it makes my throat feel thick.

"singing like a bird" - when I first moved to Chester I bought a house opposite a line of trees where the dawn chorus was provided exclusively by corvids.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:04 PM

yes,try and cut them out, ground ivy is very good as herb TEA It dries up catarrh.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:54 AM

Brewery products can affect your balance

Gerry

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:51 AM

Does anyone know whether that includes skimmed milk, which I've been drinking for donkeys years?

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Max Johnson
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:47 AM

I never drank milk, even in tea, for at least a couple of hours before a performance.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM

Who drinks milk? I did it once during manoeuvers and had a traffic accicent - lost my voice

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:37 AM

Sorry folks. Missed out the word recommend in that penultimate sentence.

Subject: RE: Can dairy products affect your voice?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 10:48 AM

I've suffered from chronic cattarh for over twelve months now, and it has effectively kept me out of singing during that period and often rendered me unable to speak. Although I've had doctors and specialists and the devil knows who looking into it, nothing they came up with could shift it.

In desperation I went into a branch of Holland and Barrett, which is a health food chain store we have in Britain, and explained the problem to the assistant. He suggested I cut out dairy products, and he sold me a bottle of Potters Chest Mixture.

I took it home and took a spoonful. Ten minutes the cattarh had gone, and I started singing like a bird. Well, one that's smoked 60 fags a day for the past 40 years at any rate.

I also cut down on dairy products and that's got me to where I sound like a bird that smokes only 40 fags a day.

All joking apart, I strongly (recommend) anyone who's suffering to try the stuff. And I've since discovered they sell it in Tesco.