What can affect your voice?

Subject: What can affect your voice?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:34 PM

Great thread about milk (dairy products) under way.

Today, I had a followup to a sinusoscopy. Swelling of turbinates in yer noad can cause problems with your voice. It can lead to drainage into the throat causing irritation causing coughing causing strain on the cords. Repetitive strain can cause cancer (I had NO idea!) The swelling can be caused by high blood pressure and other factors. So, if yer fat and drink and smoke and sing a lot without exercising yer voice properly and ya have high blood pressure... well...

The swelling can add to the possibilty of sleep apnoea which can lead to memory loss which can lead to forgetting the words to songs which, in a way, affects your "voice". And, the swelling can cause yer ears to plug up with mild infection thereby making it difficult to hear yerself properly.

Seriously... high blood pressure can mess up yer voice? Yup. And, ya can't even snot milk thru yer nose when someone tells you a really good joke if yer turbinates swell up bad.

So... how's about this thread being about personal experiences (or otherwise) about things ya just didn't know about before they happened to you?

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: DebC
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 05:31 PM

I have always been aware of all the "don'ts" when it comes to singing. But the one thing I did discover that I didn't realise is that a good cardio workout at least 5 days a week helps me sing a lot better. It makes sense, really: you are bringing oxygen to every cell in your body with aerobic exercise and that includes the vocal folds. I am also finding that my diaphram breathing is better.

I also do lower back strengthening exrecises and that has also helped with diaphram breathing.

My husband has sever blood pressure issues due to a childhood illness that left him with pretty low kidney function. He lost 50 pounds through restricting his diet and stepping up the exercise. He no longer snores.

Still can't get him to sing, tho :-)

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 05:49 PM

Mine - FEAR!
Skipy

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: paula t
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 06:24 PM

Teaching, tiredness, stress, dairy products, eating before a performance. It's a wonder I get a note out sometimes!

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,NickE
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 06:27 PM

I find a punch in my nuts raisies me at least an octave

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:53 PM

I spent almost a year being convinced that my voice (such as it is) vanished due to a persistant sinus infection. Most recently, a different ENT diagnosed it as acid reflux;which (o joy!) seems ro be responding to appropriate medication.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: bluesunsets
Date: 04 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM

Alcohol, soda, dairy products, speaking with a really nasal tone quality (used to do this- once I became aware of it and fixed it my tone improved markedly), singing loudly without proper breath support, smoking.... Pretty much all the things that we love to do while singing in pubs. :(

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:18 AM

I tend to find relistening to Dragonforce/Lordi/Other metal bands tends to do my voice in. I haven't listened to various Death Metal for a while and singing(ish) along does destroy your voice.

I just advise building up to the top F's you might sing every now and again.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 04:11 AM

DC: I can see where trying to sing along to "Through The Fire And Flames" might do yer voice in, but "Trail Of Broken Hearts" should be OK :-)

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 04:40 AM

Already I have a distinctive post style? YAY! Though I'm at a loss for you Guest...

Trail Of Broken Hearts has nothing on "Lost Souls In Endless Time" Rob, and everyone knows it.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 06:27 AM

Driving carelessly - six ribs broken, long time intubation.
the medico told me: You must imagine your lung like a liver-knoedel, and, after pulling out the tube: even the vocal chords know the parting trauma. I can't hold a longer tone, and can't sing more than an octave.
So dont drive into a ditch.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 07:21 AM

DC: I think we might be on the wrong planet, never mind the wrong thread, for this discussion :-)

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:42 PM

Wilfried... that's pretty extreme alright. I cringed again when you mentioned it above.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,zeptepi
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 08:59 PM

cold drinks before the show always buggers my voice. took me a while to work it out, now i always take a flask of hot honey and lemon with me... my vocal range is way better as a result of this.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Janie
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:04 PM

M

Have had all the bad habits for voice for years. In the middle of my 59th year, it has finally caught up with me.

Haven't been able to sing without jarring and ugly voice breaks for several months and now speaking voice is also breaking. Have put off physician visits for a few years, but this finally has got me motivated and will see a doc next week.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:10 PM

Janie, once the medical aspect is assessed and dealt with there are both vocal coaches and speech therapists who specialize in rehabilitating damaged voices, for both singing and speaking. Usually it includes retraining the muscles that have got into bad habits which can actually create things like polyps. Sometimes obvious or not so obvious lifestyle issues need to be addressed. Good places to find names (besides Mudcat :-)) include a music conservatory or a university music program.

Here's all my best wishes that your voice problem hasn't got so out of hand that it's difficult or painful to fix!!

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 12:02 AM

Sjogren's is affecting mine. Autoimmune condition that dries out the mucous membranes. Also blood pressure med tha gave me a terrible dry cough. I have been off that med for several months but still get coughing fits now and then.

That blood pressure thing is worrying.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 03:42 AM

Your voice can be affected in positive ways, too.
Deep breathing exercises.
Stop Smoking.
Posture.
Warm up vocal exercises.
Yawning, relaxes vocal chords.
Gargling with salt water kills bacteria
Practising every day

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Sol
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 08:18 AM

My limited range changes daily. As a result, I'm never sure if I'll reach the high notes or not so I adjust my programme to suit the state of my voice on the day.
Many factors affect my voice however, I do find I struggle to get a decent tone pre mid-day. Like a muscle, I've found generally, the more I use it, the 'fitter'it gets.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: meself
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 02:47 PM

I avoid singing before lunch - except for a song or two in the shower ...!

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 04:05 PM

I'm keeping interesting company these days.
It includes individuals who are using hormone treatments, among other things,
to transit from their gender at birth to the opposite gender.

Do hormone treatments affect the voice?
Heck, yeah!

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 04:09 PM

But do they affect your ability to sing well? why should they

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: BobL
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 03:46 AM

Age... lots of it.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,flopflip
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 04:40 AM

'Yawning, relaxes vocal chords.'

Which chords can you sing?

Gargling with salt water kills bacteria'


Gargling too often with salt can also damage teeth.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 06:55 AM

Temperature, food eaten, drink consumed, illness, even the clothing choice can affect ones voice.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Sol
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 08:42 AM

Clothing, really? Like say, tight jeans helping you reach higher notes? ;-)

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 11:44 AM

Hops and hoppy beer is a good vocal relaxant, but in moderation, just like gargling with salt water. and gargling with vinegar
whoever the anonymous flip flop troll is, yes of course, but most normal people only gargle with salt water when they really need to. everything in mpoderation.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,flop flip
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 01:19 PM

Ooh, you're so funny, RJM! Have you considered a comedic career? :)

There's nothing trollish about my comments at all (nor were they intended to be).

Don't be so prickly.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 02:39 PM

I'd certainly agree with Sol about "use it or lose it" if you want to keep your range. Mine was at its widest when I was singing with a Gilbert & Sullivan company: you had to sing the notes that were written, couldn't drop it by 2 or 3 keys to suit yourself, so you did it, and it happened. And going back to folk music - don't shy away from songs with a big range: I usually sing to myself the highest and lowest note in any song before starting to sing if I am singing unaccompanied so that I can pitch it within my range. If accompanying myself or being accompanied by others, I'll make sure I've picked the right key.
I am slightly sceptical about some of the myriad of things that can supposedly affect your voice: obviously if you find something that works adversely for you, you avoid it: the same as any other food/drink allergies. I was a bit surprised to find that some of my singing friends would take a cocktail of port and sherry before singing if they thought their voice was a bit precarious - that and suck a Vocalzone.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 02:39 PM

I'd certainly agree with Sol about "use it or lose it" if you want to keep your range. Mine was at its widest when I was singing with a Gilbert & Sullivan company: you had to sing the notes that were written, couldn't drop it by 2 or 3 keys to suit yourself, so you did it, and it happened. And going back to folk music - don't shy away from songs with a big range: I usually sing to myself the highest and lowest note in any song before starting to sing if I am singing unaccompanied so that I can pitch it within my range. If accompanying myself or being accompanied by others, I'll make sure I've picked the right key.
I am slightly sceptical about some of the myriad of things that can supposedly affect your voice: obviously if you find something that works adversely for you, you avoid it: the same as any other food/drink allergies. I was a bit surprised to find that some of my singing friends would take a cocktail of port and sherry before singing if they thought their voice was a bit precarious - that and suck a Vocalzone.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 02:41 PM

Not sure how the double post happened? Can a Mudelf delete one of them , please?

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 02:44 PM

> Which chords can you sing?

Janis Joplin used to sing chords, FlopFlip, but only because her voice was half-wrecked. I believe she gargled with bourbon.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 05:15 PM

RE: Clothing - Little known bit of rock & roll history. The true reason for Ian Anderson's iconic one-legged flamingo stance was the codpiece was too tight when he was first learning to hit the high notes on the harmonica. Worked for the flute later on as well.

On a less trolling note, pro voice lessons would be a good investment for most.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 06:19 PM

I just saw a short video from a voice teacher who said to go down the scale on the syllable "yung." So I did, repeating it in different keys, and I paid attention to how that resonated high in the openings in my head. Then I tried singing songs while keeping that resonance going. I think it's a good thing. Try it.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 06:57 PM

I found that getting "mouth furniture" affected my voice.   i.e. having any teeth removed and replaced on a "plate", or "partial".    So I imagine a full denture would also change things .....

Full-time medications too - e.g. like V.Tam said, Blood Pressure meds tend to cause a cough.

Trying to sing in noisy, smokey venues doesn't go well.

Being overweight, under-exercized - and Aging - can all take their toll :(

But the worst destroyer by far has been vocal chord cysts, which can happen "almost overnight" and in my case meant I could no longer sing in my three a cappella harmony combos. That was the absolute pits.

R-J

PS    Wilfried's post reminded me that a friend who is a professional singer has just had her voice wrecked by the tube put down her gullet for a gall bladder operation. Apparently, she should have asked for a narrow diameter one to help offset any potential lasting damage!!!    Who Knew??!!

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Sol
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 07:11 PM

Re. vocal chord cysts. I assume they are the same as nodes (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I believe Rod Stewart had to stop singing for a while because of them.
I've also heard of people having permanent vocal troubles caused by the 'gullet tube' that you spoke of. Should I ever be subjected to this, I'll definitely be requesting the narrower version. Thanks for the warning.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 07:43 PM

More likely an endotracheal tube, which goes into your windpipe, through the vocal cords (not chords) so that the anaesthetist can ventilate the lungs during surgery, and to prevent anything from your stomach or gullet (œsophagus) getting into your lungs. They do come in different sizes, but it’s best to have one which fits the airway (also has an inflatable cuff to make sure of a tight fit).It is quite common for people to wake up after anaesthesia with a slightly sore and hoarse throat, but really quite rare for the effects to be lasting.
Vocal cord nodules, or “singers’ nodes” are quite common among professional singers, and the voice will sound hoarse while they are still there. Removing them is not without risk of making things worse, as a number of singers have found.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 08:20 PM

This is a fascinating tool:

https://muted.io/voice-tuner/

Without pitch-pipe, I consistantly come to Db ... while expecting middle C. Harmony...Resonance... Enjoy and adjust.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

You all know ... the movie "Deep Throat?" President Nixon saw it seven times ... he wanted to get it down Pat.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: rich-joy
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 12:37 AM

Thanks for that biology lesson, TB - I'm not so good at that! (AND the spelling of Cord vs Chord :)
My friend is now having (a very expensive) op to try and repair the damage ....

Sol, I believe that Cysts are a bit different to nodes/nodules/polyps in that they can appear, like I said, "almost overnight" like mine (I noticed over the course of a week or two).
I did have my cyst drained some years back, but the improved singing ability only lasted about 6 months max. and my voice was still harsher than it had been. However, the regional hospital docs were reticent to slice it off - perhaps understandably!!

So, sadly for me, I no longer sing .....

R-J

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 03:37 AM

Nodules result from repetitive phonotrauma (overuse or improper use of vocal cords). Polyps result from repetitive phonotrauma as well, but they can also occur after a single episode. Cysts develop when vocal cord glands that secrete mucus become clogged; sometimes these are a result of repetitive phonotrauma

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 03:46 AM

Must say I found the discussion on voice production refreshing, I'll try something else that largely eminated from Ewan.
The idea that working on a song and thinking or talking about it too much spoils your enjoyment has been a current argument as long as I heve been on the scene.
It has been a feature of several long, heated discussions here recently - we spend "too much time discussing the songs and should really be listening to them"
Some time after the Criics Group folded, Pat and I approached Ewan and asked him would he agree to be interviewed
It was not our intention to record his own history - that had been done interminably - we felt that, as he had written so very little on the subject somebody should concentrate on his talking about his approach to singing
Those interviews spread over a year and proved to be incredibly rewarding - they have yet to be fully indexed and archived.
One of the points he made was, I believe worth repeating here as it touches on the need to work at what you are doing in order to understand it fully
"Now you might say that working and training to develop your voice to sing Nine Maidens A-milking Did Go or Lord Randall is calculated to destroy your original joy in singing, at least that’s the argument that’s put to me from time to time, or has been put to me from time to time by singers who should know better.
The better you can do a thing the more you enjoy it. Anybody who’s ever tried to sing and got up in front of an audience and made a bloody mess of it knows that you’re not enjoying it when you’re making a balls of it, but you are enjoying it when it’s working, when all the things you want to happen are happening. And that can happen without training, sure it can, but it’s hit or miss. If you’re training it can happen more, that’s the difference. It can’t happen every time, not with anybody, although your training can stand you in good stead, it’s something to fall back on, a technique, you know. It’s something that will at least make sure that you’re not absolutely diabolical
The objective, really for the singer is to create a situation where when he starts to sing he’s no longer worried about technique, he’s done all that, and he can give the whole of his or her attention to the song itself she can give her or he can give his whole attention to the sheer act of enjoying the song."Pat Mackenzie Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 04:04 AM

For completeness, Dick's post on cysts etc. seems to have been taken from Here


Another thing that can affect your voice is emotion. If, for instance, you find a song brings you to tears and creates a lump in your throat, you need to practice it repeatedly until it no longer affects you in that way.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 05:08 AM

Thanks, Dave.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 05:18 AM

Yes Dave, singing with emotion is important, but as you rightly say not to the extent that you cannot control it.
I have difficulty with a couple of songs because of association with close people[ relatives OR friends], who have since died.
I thought your recent break of going to a singing course for the weekend was a good idea., that a lot of people might benefit from.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 09:49 AM

A couple of good posts there.
Re the emotion thing: there are songs that I have come back to after some time, years rather than months, after the associated person has passed away, and can enjoy singing again, or hearing other people sing them, without tearing up or having to leave the room.

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 01:36 PM

Time,I suppose sometimes Tattie

Subject: RE: What can affect your voice?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 14 Aug 23 - 07:13 AM

Alexander Technique