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Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...

Naemanson 09 Jul 11 - 09:56 PM
Naemanson 09 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM
Effsee 09 Jul 11 - 10:38 PM
GUEST,Reinhard 10 Jul 11 - 01:33 AM
Gurney 10 Jul 11 - 02:02 AM
Susan of DT 10 Jul 11 - 04:19 PM
Gurney 10 Jul 11 - 07:20 PM
Stewie 10 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM
Gurney 11 Jul 11 - 12:00 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Jul 11 - 12:05 AM
catspaw49 11 Jul 11 - 12:12 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Another interesting item found...
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 09:56 PM

I hope this works. I was doing research and came across this paper on gender reversal in folk music. I haven't had time to read it. I'm just throwing it up here for whoever is interested.

SEE IT HERE!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Another interesting item found...
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM

Here are two more:

MAGICAL CORPSES: BALLADS, INTERTEXTUALITY, AND THE DISCOVERY OF MURDER

POETIC ORIGINS AND THE BALLAD


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Another interesting item found...
From: Effsee
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 10:38 PM

Not exactly "in depth" are they?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Another interesting item found...
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 01:33 AM

Only the first page of each paper seems to be available for free. You'll have to pay for read to the full paper.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 02:02 AM

Thinking about it, I can't place of any 'Big' ballads where the protagonist actually cross-dresses because they are 'made that way,' but only to get to where s/he wouldn't normally be allowed to go, or to prove a lover's fidelity. And good for them!

There may have been songs about social transvestites, but would the gentlefolk who did the collecting have recorded them?


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: Susan of DT
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:19 PM

There are 51 songs in the DT with the keyword transvestite. There was usually a reason why the person needed to cross dress.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 07:20 PM

Well, I looked at them, Susan. Just a couple of modern songs about pervy cross-dressers (I'm not a lumberjack, OK!) a couple about adventurous females who were not of the feminine persuasion and weren't going to have a bar of it, (the only ones I'd call transvestite) one guy who got his breeches stolen, one fugitive from justice, (as the northerners would see it) Sister Josephine,(also hiding out) and the rest about ladies who, for the love of some man....

John Williamson's song 'The Drover's Boy' isn't there.

As you said, usually a reason to cross-dress.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: Stewie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM

Gurney, 'The Drover's Boy' is by Ted Egan albeit Williamson may well have recorded it. You can find it posted to the forum back in 2000: Here.

It seems it was harvested, but never made it to the DT.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:00 AM

Thanks, Stewie. That's the one. Lovely sparse writing, you have to hear it twice to catch the story in Williamson's version.
Then you can't forget it.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:05 AM

Nothing to do with ballads, but -

I recently heard a talk by a woman who helps street people. She explained about 'transgenders who identify as female.' They are men who deeply wish to be female. They see their bodies as wrong, as if their male organs were birth defects. They are harmless, unhappy people, and they receive brutal treatment on the street.

I can't argue with their basic position. I wouldn't want to be anything but female myself.

Now when I enounter someone and feel confused about whether it's really a woman or not, I won't worry about it. I'll just accept the person as a woman and treat her as I would any other woman.

However, I doubt if any ballad writers had any insight into the nature or the sadness of such lives.


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Subject: RE: Gender Reversal: Another interesting item found...
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:12 AM

Saw Chaz Bono on "Realtime" this week. Has nothing to do with this thread but he makes a good case for transgendered people.

Spaw


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