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Tech: Saddle Material

saulgoldie 10 Jul 11 - 01:33 PM
Justa Picker 10 Jul 11 - 01:34 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 11 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,Another GUEST 10 Jul 11 - 10:22 PM
catspaw49 11 Jul 11 - 12:13 AM
Doug Chadwick 11 Jul 11 - 02:55 AM
doc.tom 11 Jul 11 - 04:49 AM
Silas 11 Jul 11 - 04:55 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 11 - 05:55 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 11 - 05:57 AM
GUEST 11 Jul 11 - 07:35 AM
cooperman 11 Jul 11 - 07:41 AM
GUEST 11 Jul 11 - 09:21 AM
Midchuck 11 Jul 11 - 09:29 AM
Silas 11 Jul 11 - 10:06 AM
PHJim 11 Jul 11 - 10:08 AM
Doug Chadwick 12 Jul 11 - 02:28 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 11 - 03:31 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 11 - 06:03 AM
cooperman 12 Jul 11 - 08:00 AM
Silas 12 Jul 11 - 08:39 AM
saulgoldie 17 Jul 11 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,Ray 18 Jul 11 - 06:05 AM
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Subject: Tech: Guitar Saddle Material
From: saulgoldie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 01:33 PM

I am going to install an under-the-saddle pick-up on my acoustic. The stock saddle appears to be more or less generic plastic. Other than ivory, is there any other saddle material I can get to help the sound while I am "in there" mucking about? Thanks.

Saul


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Justa Picker
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 01:34 PM

Bone.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 09:22 PM

Leather - hard rawhide leather - purchased from COX Leather in NM. Soaked in 50% salt overnight - and dried in the sun for one week - it is a poor substitute for the "real thing."

The thinnest strip of 10 year old latago henched daily beneath the belly an appolusa that twitches with each bite of the fly. The leather should virtualy CRACK with the encrusted mamilian evaporation and encrustation of minerals.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: GUEST,Another GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:22 PM

Gel padded and undersprung, extra wide fitting if available
to cater for spreading middle aged arses.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:13 AM

Bone as JP said.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 02:55 AM

....is there any other saddle material I can get to help the sound

Will bone (or ivory, for that matter) actually help with the sound? What's wrong with plastic?


DC


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: doc.tom
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 04:49 AM

Bone - it's solid and will transmit vibration more efficiently than pretty well any form of plastic I can think of.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Silas
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 04:55 AM

Don't use bone or any other organic material for u/s pick-ups. Use Tusq or something similar.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 05:55 AM

I've used bone and FWI on acoustic guitars with USTs without any problems whatsoever. And the unamplified tone from an organic saddle is better than from inorganic materials.

However, I've dispensed with USTs altogether now, and I use K&K Pure Western under-bridgeplate transducers. A far superior-sounding solution without any interference with saddle/bridge contact, and with none of the 'quack' that USTs always seem to produce (and before anyone starts squeaking about feedback, I have no more problem with feedback now than I had previously with USTs, and if I do get feedback, careful EQ-ing and use of the notch-filter takes care of it).

IMHO. YMMV.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 05:57 AM

Should have said "A far superior-sounding solution for pure acoustic-sounding tone, without any interference........"


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 07:35 AM

Headway supply bone saddle on mando bridge with UST


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: cooperman
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 07:41 AM

Sorry, last post was expired me!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 09:21 AM

Just out of curiousity, why not Ivory? There are now many places supplying fossil Ivory and I think the tone is unbeatable.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Midchuck
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 09:29 AM

Just out of curiousity, why not Ivory? There are now many places supplying fossil Ivory and I think the tone is unbeatable.

1: Cost. It's only worth it for a high-end guitar. FWI or FMI saddle and pins would double the total investment in the guitar, in some cases.

2: Environmental/endangered species issues. Obviously, there aren't any real issues there, since you can't endanger a species by using ivory from a long-dead beast, but some bleeding hearts, and some bureaucrats who want to keep the bleeding hearts off their backs, lack the intelligence to tell the difference.

P.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Silas
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 10:06 AM

Ivory or bone can work, but it can also be a bit hit and miss due to the sometimes variation in its density. It may be perfectly 'square' but some parts will almost certainly be more dense than others. It does not matter much for its acoustic quality, but can dramatically affect its transmission for USPs. Tusq or similar has a very consistent density and you will fins that most top end luthiers fitting USPs will use a manmade substitute.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: PHJim
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 10:08 AM

I have a bone saddle on an old Fishman under-saddle pick-up. I`m curious why Silas says to not use an organic saddle.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 02:28 AM

FWI or FMI saddle and pins ......

What does FWI and FMI stand for, please?


DC


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 03:31 AM

"Fossilised" Walrus Ivory and "Fossilised" Mammoth Ivory.

These materials are collected from long-dead animals (long-dead usually being hundreds of years in the case of walrus, and thousands in the case of mammoth) found in the wild rather than from animals killed for their ivory, and are generally more acceptable to those of us who have an objection by virtue of conscience to the use of elephant ivory.

They are described as 'Fossilised' because of the colour which often leaches into the ivory from the ground in which the animal's carcass is found.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 06:03 AM

But they're not truly fossilised.
Here are some pix from Bob Colosi's website showing various ivories in use, including FWI: GuitarSaddles Photo Gallery


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: cooperman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:00 AM

Someone told me to always wear a mask if grinding organic saddle material as it could be a carcinogen. Can anyone confirm this?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: Silas
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:39 AM

It bleedin stinks, I can tell you that much!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: saulgoldie
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 09:16 AM

Honestly, is the difference with FMI or FWI more than just slight nuance? Is it something that someone with perhaps above average but not hyper-sensitive hearing will be able to discern?

Also, the guitar I have is a Guild jumbo JF-30. Would it possibly already have a bone saddle?

Also, I am looking at the thread on strings and wondering how concerned I should be about that, too. I am wondering if any of these things will make that much of a difference to most people. Thanks.

Saul


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Subject: RE: Tech: Saddle Material
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 06:05 AM

People talk about "plastic" as if its a single substance. There are many forms of plastic some of which would be suitable and others which would not. That said, there ain't much wrong with bone providing, as another has said, its of regular density.

My luthier has a box full of saddle blanks and always shines a bright light through them in order to check the density before shaping and fitting them to a particular guitar.


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