an embarassment as a blues singer

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:27 PM

absolutely, a great example is reynardine,two versions one sung by june tabor the other by anne briggs ,both equally good but different.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Tootler
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:52 AM

As the late John Peel said - people were always telling me. BB King is the real thing - much better than Clapton. I listened to BB King. I liked him, but what Clapton does is different to the Americans. I prefer it.

I remember seeing BB King interviewed on TV a few years back and it was very obvious that he had a great deal of respect for Eric Clapton.

I like your view that Clapton and BB King are different, not that one is necessarily better than the other. Whether one is "better" is a matter of personal preference. That was something I felt when I was briefly reading the comparison of the two versions of Sugar Babe just now. (having ignored this thread after a look early on) The two versions were different but which was "better" was purely a matter of personal taste. For some reason there seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge that two things can be different without one necessarily being better than the other.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:42 AM

.. and at risk of being pedantic..

I'll add - of equal validity;

"Don't sing what you feel uncomfortable with"

[sometimes quite awkward in a Band environment]

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:34 AM

Excellent! To misquote - "sing what you want - that's the law and the whole of the law"...

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 10:47 AM

Hi, Spleen Cringe.

Yes, I understood what you mean. Once a song's 'out of the box,' it's available to all.

I agree.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 08:01 AM

Vic,I tend to agree with you.
I believe that generally speaking performers reading words are not getting into the song,if someone was a professional actor and used to reading lines and being able to interpret them that could possibly be different, they have acquired a skill, which most floor singers do not possess.
I have only ever seen one floor singer reading her words and making a good job of the song,that was a girl at Robin Hoods Bay Folk Club singing the Whitby Whaler.
However in the last year I did see one elderly professional Accordion player and singer,he was reading his music, he still performed really well and he was good as he was in 1961.
So I suppose there are always exceptions

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM

I do not think that it is not even good enough for floor singers to read lyrics....

Oh come on, Vic, for goodness sake - double negatives! What you meant to write was:-

I do not think that it is even good enough.... etc.etc.

Thank goodness that Dick has written:-
[I make an exception for elderly Mudcat posters].

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 07:38 AM

Dick Miles wrote:-
"I find it embarrassing to watch singers who are booked and presumably paid to perform at festivals,reading their lyrics."

I would say that you do not go far enough. I do not think that it is not even good enough for floor singers to read lyrics in clubs where people have paid to get into an event. I certainly do not encourage people who come along to "read us a song". OK The Copper Family come and hold their song books in front of them, but that is something of an affectation... some of the older members of the family have been singing these songs since 1790 as it says in Bob's book.
And elderly performers... well, young Bob Copper used to sing some of the songs that he had collected, Bold Princess Royal, Sheffield Park etc. without any access to written aids, and he was note and word perfect in his late eighties. Then John would say, "I think we'll sing The Banks of Claudy now" and Bob would say, "Oh right!", take out his glasses and peer at the song book - Yea, Bob, you don't know that words of that one, do you?

As for some of our more elderly performers. There was Will Atkinson; his mouth-organ playing was spot on in every aspect the last time that we booked him. I believe that he was 93 at the time.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 06:31 AM

The only singers that I have ever found embarrassing are those that could not sing in tune, or sang in tune but out of pitch with the guitar quarter tone sharp, or those that changed key during songs, generally unaccompanied songs.
I find it embarrassing to watch singers who are booked and presumably paid to perform at festivals,reading their lyrics[I make an exception for elderly performers].

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:18 AM

"Those songs are out of the box now and anyone can try them out." Hope you understood, Leeneia, that I meant that as a good thing, not as "PC soul searching", to quote ya...

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:19 PM

Thanks, Olddude and Will.

Here's a little story about me and the blues. When I was a kid, I used to spend time at our dining-room table while my mother ironed clothes. I'd do homework or match socks, and we'd both listen to the radio.

One day they played a record of a woman singing "The Blues in the Night." It must have been a request, because it was not the kind of thing I usually heard.

My mama done told me
when I was in pigtails,
a man is a two-face
a worrisome thing
he'll cause you to sing
the blues in the night...

My mother gave a grunt of disapproval at the language. But then the woman began to sing a new melody in a voice of dark velvet, and I sat transfixed as her music made me picture bleak Chicago landscapes - railroad tracks, wooden water towers, and run-down houses. all dark against a sunset.

We listened silently together, each in our own world. It was beautiful.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 01:15 PM

200, SORRY LEADFINGERS

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 12:22 PM

Leeneia - exactly what I've said over and over again: "Have what you will - and pay for it". In music terms: Sing or play what the devil you want to - and, whatever the reaction, stick to the music you like.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:43 AM

Leeneia
well said my friend, very well said

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM

There are two or three threads now going on the topics of "Is it all right for _________s to play the music of _________s?"

We never used to worry about this stuff. We sang and played music from all over the world.

I suspect all this PC soul-searching is just another form of the Great You-Shut-Up. There is a strong current of repression in our culture, a current which wants normal, everyday people not to play music, not to sing, not even to whistle a tune. We're supposed to buy our music instead, from approved commercial sources.

Also, I've been thinking about bullies lately. I grew up with a bully who morphed from a mean, sick boy to a sanctimonous, moralizing old man. I bet this is the normal thing for bullies. As the kid gets older, he realizes that society, the army, and the cops are not going to put up with cruelty, so he reverts to claiming the high moral ground in order to control others.

I think the people who act so concerned about the minorities really just want us to stop singing so THEY can be center stage. (I intend to keep singing the blues whenever the mood strikes me.)

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 10:08 AM

... and Joanne Shaw Taylor [now early to mid 20's]

Young Brit female blues guitarist/singer gaining serious respect both sides of the Atlantic


http://www.pigs-ear.biz/jst/bio.html


.. well my Mrs quite likes her....

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:56 AM

Sunjay Brayne, also 17 years old, from the fighting city of Birmingham, England. What a pity he's not dancing round the maypole to slip jigs, singing about the real England of steamships and the press gang and the first world war! Nice kid though and very talented!


http://www.sunjaybrayne.com/apps/videos/videos/show/14041950-one-scotch-one-bourbon-one-beer

Sunjay has been booked for next years Wessex Folk Festival. Don't miss it - the first weekend of June next year in Weymouth.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:25 AM

As for British guys attempting the blues vocally, I don't know who you have been listening to but why would you buy recordings of British attempts when you have so much of the genuine article? Somewhat like trying selling Ice Boxes to Eskimos in my book.

Well... no-one is forcing you to buy it! Seriously, those songs are out of the box now and anyone can try them out. What I like about Dick's version is that he is not trying to be a black American blues musician from the middle of the last century, but singing and playing it as himself - filtered through his own existence as a white English folk musician of a certain vintage... In my book this works far better than trying to simulate something you're not.

Also Hoot, for us lot in the UK, we don't actually get many chances to see black American country blues singers playing. However, we have every chance of seeing Dick. When I did, it was a thoroughly enjoyable night.

Might I also point you in the direction of another English musician (considerably younger than Dick at just 17!) who is strongly influenced by the blues? Jack Blackman

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:23 AM

As for British guys attempting the blues vocally, I don't know who you have been listening to but why would you buy recordings of British attempts when you have so much of the genuine article? Somewhat like trying selling Ice Boxes to Eskimos in my book.

As the late John Peel said - people were always telling me. BB King is the real thing - much better than Clapton. I listened to BB King. I liked him, but what Clapton does is different to the Americans. I prefer it.

Me talking now
Its what it is. If it embarrases you - that's your problem, not the artist's. And when you're a reviewer - you should be aware of that. Embarrasssing isn't a description - its a description of you. If it embarasses - why does it embarass?

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:56 AM

Legend has it it that Peter Bellamy once called Janis Joplin the worst blues singer he'd ever heard - to her face. Does history record her response I wonder? Bellamy persevered with the blues on occaision, and trearting his auduiences to encores of Rolling Stones songs which was always fun, but not in the same class of genius as Jim Eldon's versions of Pop Songs which take on a truly surreal sheen as a browse through YouTube will reveal.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I think Dick's a top singer & admire his approach very much. His YouTube channel is a source of much joy to me and though our paths have never crossed (not for the want of urging my local club to book him) I'm looking forward to the day they do.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:56 AM

Novosoto ???

As for British guys attempting the blues vocally, I don't know who you have been listening to but why would you buy recordings of British attempts when you have so much of the genuine article? Somewhat like trying selling Ice Boxes to Eskimos in my book.

Hoot

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:37 AM

no I got one today.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:36 AM

can we still do personal messages?havent they been suspended?

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:19 AM

My reply is coming by PM, Dick.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM

lovely place,Lewes.
Don Partridge used to busk there,did you book him when he lived there ,Vic?

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:19 PM

Just tried to read throuigh this whole thread at one sitting. Make it to about the halfway point before I started skimming. A few random reactions:

"Novosoto [TX] is not in the Piedmont." Well, neither is Avalon MS, but Mance Lipscomb and John Hurt were both exponents of the "Piedmont" approach to fingerpicking and song selection. It is very probable, statistically, that both men's forebearers spend a generation or two or more living in or near the Piedmont area (foothills of the Appalachians, in Virginia and the Carolinas) before being sold and shipped west to the newly-opened territories of Mississippi and Texas.

I find that there are indeed plenty of British white guys who can express themselves effectively as blues singers (many, but not all, in the popular electric-blues/rock business). The problem, of course, is to strike a balance between self-expression in one's own voice versus preserving the right bit of adherence to traditional diction, vowel-and-consonant soundings, etc. One doesn't want to slavishly imitate an original artist who inhabited a world and tradition vastly different from one's own...but on the other hand, it won't sound at all like The Blues if the singer does not adopt certain linguistic conventions which are as much a part of this traditional "sound" as are the chord progressions, the flatted fifths, and other strictly musical elements.

I had the good fortune of meeting Mance when I was a college sutdent, back in about 1968. Most vivid memory: Mance pulled out his false teeth (upper full plate) to show me the mother-of-pearl inlay picture of a guitar that he kept on the roof of his mouth all day every day. I think his first name was also part of the design, but my memory is less clear on that score; I can still clearly picture the little picture of a guitar. I think he said that the inlay was done for him, as a gift, by a fan who worked as a luthier...

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:28 PM

Many musicians that I know, some top names amongst them, don't find it beneath themselves to go busking when there are not as many gigs that month as there ought to be to cover the bills - and many teach as well.

Lovely place, Bantry.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:20 PM

This evening I had two guitar pupils,both of whom have been coming six years and four years respectively both of them are now fairly good players,one of them has come back again in her summer holidays[she is at university] and really enjoys playing american fingerstyle guitar.
It has been very satisfying for me watching them progress and feeling that they are interested in the same music as me.
2Fridays ago I went busking in Bantry,I got a very favourable response,a stall holder gave me a fiver, and I had lots of compliments about my singing and playing,The great thing about busking is that it is the most honest form of music making.
I am 60 years old, I no longer care about seeking success, fame as a folk singer,I just enjoy playing music,that is why I dont care anymore about furthering or damaging my career,or speaking the truth as I see it.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

I buy lots of periodicals with lots of reviews. Spend a fair amount of time looking for reviews that haven't been written yet on the internet. (mainly of music gear, of which i am a degenerate purchasing addict).

Its just the people involved in this case who have fired me up. I really find the phenomenon of Froots pissing from a lofty height on a guy like Dick Miles - deeply repulsive - I'm surprised a lot of you guys don't get it either.

A couple of years or four ago, i cam upon Dick's song about Richard III. I sensed at the time he was a bit down about something or other - so I had a go at recording it. And i started e-mailing him - saying have you sent the song to the RichardIII society - have you sent it, here and there - just hustling the way songwriters do. And the conclusion i cam to is that Dick is a real non-hustler.

And its a bloody pity - because most of hasbeens and haircuts that Froots dutifully creams its jeans about, could never have a strong idea for a song like Dick - not as long as they had a hole in their bum.
http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id31.html

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:56 PM

Will
Now that is a scary thought my dear friend LOL

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:52 PM

I thought it was a very pertinent comment pfr!

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM

oops.. posted in wrong thread, must have had this one open
at same time as 'guitar injuries'

mods please tidy up this daft mistake.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,punkfokrocker
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:45 PM

just remembered I have a permanent 'work related injury'..

a bony lump on my forehead inflicted by a flamboyant mic stand swinging singer
on a cramped small club stage
when I was 18 or 19...

..delayed reaction mild concussion set in the following afternoon
after all the 'pre-gig stimulants & performance enhancing pharmaceuticals'
from the night before had worn off.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:54 AM

punkfolkrocker wrote:-
"..though can't the same be said about any popularist former radical progressive egalitarian music and media/arts scene
that's been insidiously invaded and taken over by a recent generation of ambitious preening famestruck privileged public school elite brats.....????? "

This statement reminded me very much of a conversation that I had with Leon Rosselson recently. Leon is a man who regard as having one of the sharpest, most incisive political minds in the UK today. His view of the various branches of the arts that he is involved with - poetry, drama, musical shows, children's books, political songwriting as well as the folk scene - would largely concur with punkfolkrocker's statement

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:46 AM

Short skirts, showing the goods

Dan, old friend, I've always worn a long skirt... no-one sees my goods if I can help it.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:44 AM

Jeez, Al, what do they put in the water round your way? Undiluted vitriol? So everyone who has ever reviewed anything ever is part of "a class of humanity that gets unrepentantly right on your tits", are they? No exceptions, eh? Doesn't matter if you're a fantastic writer with a good understanding of your chosen field who largely puts in positive reviews. Nope. You're still damned. And there's more! Seems like everyone who has ever read a review (or at least anyone who sees any sort of value in reviews) is "all their snotty, snerchy little sycophantic, pseudy dude mates." That line makes Lennon's Gimme Some Truth seem positively sunny...

It must be hard work doing that sort of bitterness and negativity. I like it better when you're funny. Good job you're not a reviewer, though, eh?

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:34 AM

I would take an honest performance by anyone who plays for the love of music then all of the so called talent I hear coming out of Nashville these days. Factory created songs, factory created musicians. Short skirts, showing the goods .. but talent .. naw .. I heard a number one song on the radio yesterday .. dumbest thing I ever heard .. stupid lyrics .. and a melody stolen from 1000 other songs ... I sure hope the folk scene doesn't degrade into the same ..

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:26 AM

'. Would you take the same approach if it was music or plumbing'

I suppose it would depend on plumbers as a class of humanity getting unrepentantly right on my tits. And then all their snotty, snerchy little sycophantic, pseudy dude mates simpering, well actually they DO have a point.....

yeh, they do have a point. so does a guy collecting waste paper in the park. difference is, the guy collecting garbage is doing a useful job.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 10:30 AM

"Folk scene ... has become a place where networking and who you are in with,has become more prevalent
and more important in achieving success than it was 40 years ago."

..though can't the same be said about any popularist former radical progressive egalitarian music and media/arts scene
that's been insidiously invaded and taken over by a recent generation of ambitious preening famestruck privileged public school elite brats.....?????

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 09:48 AM

Cause for concern! cause for concern! (splutter of rage on your behalf!)

reviews like that should returned in the suppository form - with the relevant instructions shouted loudly every time the little stinker raises his head in public.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 06:34 AM

Vic,It is not about my career, if I was concerned about my career ,I would have said nothing.
I have been involved and love this music for many years,my concern is to try and improve standards and that includes reviewing.
I am also concerned that the Folk scene has over the years become more like the pop scene, that is has become a place where networking and who you are in with,has become more prevalent and more important in achieving success than it was 40 years ago.
I agree with your last statement Vic, but I am concerned that it is becoming harder for genuine talent and good communicative skills to rise to the top in the folk scene, than it was in 1967.,the scene then was a freer scene,generally speaking it was a music where talent could rise to the top without good management ,hype etc etc., image was less important than the quality of the music, now to be successful groups are starting to be marketed in the same way as on the pop scene.
I agree it is still much better than the pop scene but there is [imo] cause for concern.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:23 AM

Al Whittle wrote:-
"this would imply a degree of fairness, gentlemanly conduct, basic rules and common decency - that ain't much in evidence. at least not with the reviewing system that ends up calling, Dick an embarassment in a public forum.

I would have thought that the analysis of that review that I gave above showed that overall the review was balanced. If the reviewer, whoever he was, expressed this opinion of Dick's singing of the blues, I can only conclude that this was a genuine reaction to what he heard. Many fans of old-fashioned country blues - what they would call genuine performers - are not the impressed in the slightest by the efforts of what I seen written as Dilettante young white boys. This may be wrong for others but it is a perfectly valid opinion.
I do, however, wonder what good Dick feels he can possibly be doing to further his career but exhuming a 21 year old review that has been totally forgotten and which carries damning statements of an album that was deleted many years ago.

Dick Miles wrote:-
"they may once have been very good, but they are there partly on merit but not entirely on merit but also because of opportunity, being around at the right time, good management, Luck and Networking"
Are you telling us that life can be unfair, Dick? This is very true, but it is not earth shattering news. I happen to believe that genuine talent and good communicative skills are much more likely to rise to the top on the folk scene than in a field that regards Lady Gaga as a major musical talent.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:20 AM

Well in my book this is the sort of thing that gives folk a bad name.
A beautiful song sung with no feeling and given a completely unneccesary backing. Sort of like wine for non wine drinkers. Why does music always have to have a video ? Is it to give people something interesting to watch until that bloody singer shuts up?

Hoot

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:00 AM

Al, that's a review from twenty years ago and it represented one reviewer's opinion at the time. Would you take the same approach if it was music or plumbing? Imagine if you'd heard a song you didn't like twenty yaers ago and reacted with "Right! That's it! I'm never going to like any music by any performer ever again!" Or... "Someone cocked up my pipework twenty years ago and even though I'm currently up to my neck in sewerage, I'm buggered if I'm going to call out of of those pesky plumbers!" Of course you wouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Yet because you disagree with the reviewer's verdict on Dick's album that's what you're doing. By, 'eck! Teachers, eh?

On a different note, I have a copy of that album. I quite like it, though I think Dick's earlier and later albums are better. Just my opinion, though.

Paul, I hear what you're saying, but I think unlike the mainstream music mags, fRoots, R2, The Living Tradition, Stirrings and EDS do give quite a bit of space to self-released and small label stuff. Of course they are going to put someone better known on the cover, because they need to sell copies of the magazine to keep solvent and to keep providing a platform to, amongst other things, review small label and self-released albums. And fRoots had the excellent Sam Amidon on the cover last month - he's hardly a household name and his label, Bedroom Community, is hardly Sony... Sam Amidon sings Saro

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:40 AM

'all part of the game!'

this would imply a degree of fairness, gentlemanly conduct, basic rules and common decency - that ain't much in evidence. at least not with the reviewing system that ends up calling, Dick an embarassment in a public forum.

Being a non com in this nasty little war. i don't have to take it.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:29 AM

Maybe the cottage industry approach to making/ selling/ distributing CDs is the right one then Vic. If most of your product is sold from your own website or at gigs (where in our experience, healthy sales are still very possible) then there is a degree of protection from the strategic changes taking place in the market. You're also very much in charge of your own costs..... and it is still be possible to make a decent quality, profitable CD.


It would be great if the reviewing "bodies" took this approach more seriously though. There does sometimes seem to be a disconnect between the music that "the people" respond to and buy versus what is given the most coverage in print and on-line.

......Dick, I don't think it is closed shop, but there are a number of gatekeepers at different levels who have a huge influence on who gets to play the key gigs or gets heard in the key places. To be fair, pretty much every "network" or "industry" is like this though. Frustrating at times, but all part of the game!

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 06:46 PM

I wrote:-
"with fewer and fewer specialist music albums appearing in shops"

This was posted in another place by an American folk enthusiast earlier this evening:-
The USA chain Borders Books and Music has announced that it is liquidating. (In this thread, I mentioned Borders' initial bankruptcy filing on Feb. 17.) 400 stores, most of which sold CDs, will close.

Borders is just about the last national retailer who was interested in stocking folk/roots/world music on CD in the USA. Remaining are: the Barnes & Noble book chain, who show signs of wanting to get out of CD retailing; Amazon; the surviving "legendary independents" and boutique online retailers.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 06:40 PM

Vic, it was much easier for new comers back in 1970, and as I understand from those that were there earlier than that,1961 etc.
   The UK Folkscene [imo] is a bit of a closed shop,as you know not everything is decided on merit,there are a number of powerful cliques, which is better than there being only one.
But a lot of the good aspects of the early uk folk scene are gone, Paul Simon wandering in to do a floor spot etc.
To say that the influence of the rock scene and novelty does not occur at all on the folk scene is incorrect,it is there, but for various reasons,one of them being less commercialism, it is there, less.
"Some of the bigger names of the folk scene are the bigger names because they are very good" quote Vic Smith
This is only partly true, they MAY BE VERY GOOD or they may once have been very good, but they are there partly on merit but not entirely on merit but also because of opportunity, being around at the right time, good management, Luck and Networking, your statement is misleading and too simplistic .

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Vic Smith
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 04:28 PM

And I understand that it is very difficult for newer names, even the good ones, to make an impression. Some of the bigger names are the bigger names because they are very good. Generally, once singers have made a huge mark on the folk scene, they are there for as long as they want to be. I believe that Martin Carthy has been around for more than 2 or 3 years. The loyalty of the folk scene is totally admirable and much preferable to the constant seeking of new novelty that characterises some aspects of rock music. The down side of this is that it leaves less room for newcomers.

Subject: RE: an embarassment as a blues singer
From: Banjiman
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 04:09 PM

I take your point on some of these Vic...... but holding up Hilary James, Fairport and Blazin' Fiddles as championing the "little man (or woman)" doesn't really wash does it!!

But I think you understand my point.