Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Short Sharp Shanties vol.1

Related threads:
Short Sharp Shanties - the end is nigh (7)
Short Sharp Shanties on tour! (16)
Short Sharp Shanty CD launch (22)
Short Sharp Shanties Vol.3 (5)
Short Sharp Shanties vol.2 (6)
John Short's shanties come home (19)


Charley Noble 21 Jul 11 - 09:15 PM
Gibb Sahib 21 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM
Gibb Sahib 21 Jul 11 - 10:13 PM
Charley Noble 22 Jul 11 - 09:28 AM
Banjiman 22 Jul 11 - 09:33 AM
Charley Noble 22 Jul 11 - 09:36 AM
Richard from Liverpool 22 Jul 11 - 09:42 AM
Charley Noble 22 Jul 11 - 11:10 AM
Gibb Sahib 22 Jul 11 - 12:31 PM
Richard from Liverpool 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Jul 11 - 01:23 PM
doc.tom 23 Jul 11 - 12:24 PM
Charley Noble 23 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM
Reinhard 23 Jul 11 - 04:18 PM
Charley Noble 23 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM
doc.tom 24 Jul 11 - 05:07 AM
Charley Noble 24 Jul 11 - 10:28 AM
doc.tom 24 Jul 11 - 12:00 PM
Charley Noble 24 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM
Charley Noble 24 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM
doc.tom 24 Jul 11 - 03:12 PM
Charley Noble 24 Jul 11 - 08:26 PM
doc.tom 31 Oct 11 - 01:40 PM
Reinhard 31 Oct 11 - 02:08 PM
shipcmo 11 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM
shipcmo 21 Apr 12 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,Lighter 21 Apr 12 - 10:03 AM
doc.tom 22 Apr 12 - 04:58 AM
Dead Horse 22 Apr 12 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,Murray on Saltspring 22 Aug 14 - 12:26 AM
GUEST,dick greenhaus 22 Aug 14 - 05:32 AM
doc.tom 22 Aug 14 - 08:02 AM
BB 04 Jun 15 - 04:20 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Review: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:15 PM

Maybe I missed this newly released CD being mentioned on another thread. If not, let's start a discussion here since it's the best traditional style shanty CD I've heard in years, comparing well with the best of A. L. Lloyd, Ewan MacColl, Louis Killen, and The Boarding Party. All of these songs were collected by Cecil Sharp from John Short, aka Yankee Jack, in 1914.

The track list of Short Sharp Shanties: Sea Songs of a Watchet Sailor, Vol. 1includes:

Sing Fare Ye Well led by Keith Kendrick
The Black Ball Line led by Roger Watson
Mr. Tapscott led by Sam Lee
A Hundred Years on the Eastern Shore led by Jeff Warner
Fire! Fire! led by Jackie Oates
Hanging Johnny led by Tom Brown
Rio Grande led by Roger Watson
Cheerly Man led by Barbara Brown
Poor Old Man (Johnny Come Down to Hilo) led by Keith Kendrick
The Bully Boat (Ranzo Ray) led by Tom Brown
Stormalong John led by Jim Mageen
Blow Boys Blow (Banks of Sacramento) led by Tom Brown
Carry Him to the Burying Ground (General Taylor) led by Sam Lee
Bulgine Run led by Barbara Brown
Shallow Brown led by Jim Mageen
Won't You Go My Way led by Jeff Warner
Blow Boys, Come Blow Together led by Keith Kendrick
Tommy's Gone (Tommy's Gone Away) led by Jackie Oates

The recording is produced by Wild Goose Studios, © 2011

I was able to hear Jeff Warner lead "Won't You Go My Way" at the Press Room, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, last weekend and was quite taken with his interpretation, a Southern Appalachian treatment backed up with 5-string banjo; the damn song is still ringing through my head. I was also able to purchase the CD from Jeff and have been listening to it with pleasure ever since.

One of the things that is quite apparent is that some of these shanties are not exactly what we heard revived in the 1960's, which is not entirely surprising. It's the differences, however, which add interest to the CD, coming as they do from a real shantyman with over 50 years at sea. At the same time each performer is interpreting what Sharp transcribed in his own personal way.

Additional notes should be found at: www.umbermusic.co.uk/SSSnotes.htm

but the above link provided with the CD doesn't work for me.

Volume 2 and 3 are planned for the future.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

CD Notes


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM

Thanks for starting the discussion, Charlie.

There have been threads about the (then) upcoming release, but I don't think a review one like this. BTW, I have been using this link to preview the CD, which others may find handy (,my girls, so handy):

http://www.wildgoose.co.uk/displayAlbum.asp?PRODUCT_ID=196

If I may be so bold as to say, a discussion/review here could add much to the CD.

I'd love to hear more about the primary (secondary, tertiary, etc) goals of the project.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 10:13 PM

could add much to the CD

by which I meant to say, add to one's enjoyment of the CD and appreciate its goal, difficulties, landmark significance, etc. I didn't mean that the CD required anything more! It is quite complete and stands on its own. :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 09:28 AM

Gibb-

Thanks for finding a link that works. Now, at least, folks who are interested can buy the CD.

There are many intriguing tracks on this CD. For example, #10, The Bully Boat (Ranzo Ray) led by Tom Brown, seems an early version of what most of us know as "The Wild Goose Shanty" but the initial verses were dropped while more plot was developed between the sailor and the lady. And instead of a steady rhythm as in The Bully Boat, Wild Goose is a halyard shanty with distinct pulls. But the two songs are obviously related, and may be enjoyed as distinct renditions. One wonders where the "wild goose" came from, other than from some Irish shantyman

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 09:33 AM

No in depth review from me.

All I can see is that it is very, very good. Top class singing and playing throughout, never mind the interesting versions of the songs.

I've been lucky enough to have a sneak preview of the rough mixes of vols 2 & 3. What I've heard suggests that they will be just as good.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 09:36 AM

Of course, one could also review Hugill's notes about these two shanties but that would require reaching a foot or two across my desk to the bookshelf. It's too hot!

Oh, and "The Wild Goose Shanty" (there are several by that name) I was referring to above is the one that begins:

Have you ever seen a wild goose flying o'er the ocean?
Ranzo, Ranzo, way-hey!
They're just like them young girls when they take a notion --
Ranzo, Ranzo, way-hey!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 09:42 AM

Will try and get hold of this when I have cash. Listening to the previews, the Mr Tapscott is interesting too, similar words but a different melody and form to that given by Hugill and Terry for "We're all bound to go" - and with a chorus that is very similar to "New York Girls".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:10 AM

Richard-

"Mr. Tapscott" does seem a precursor to "All You New York Girls, Can't You Dance the Polka" which we're all more familiar to. The rolling pace and melody is certainly close. I suppose we'll never find out just who did major changes in these shanties but they certainly were changed as they passed from ship to ship.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:31 PM

Yeah, "Mr. Tapscott" is just "New York Girls" with the Tapscott theme for solos (as it says in the liner notes). You could mix and match any ballad meter verses, e.g. from "The Dreadnaught," "Banks of Newfoundland," "Old Maui," etc -- all of them work and give you more mileage because of their narratives. Try it! :)

Robinson (1917) had,

Oh My Santi

My name is Larry Doolan, a native of the soil.
If you want a day's diversion, I can drive you out in style.
Then away you Santi! My dear Honey!
Oh! you Santi! I love you for your money.

And Alden (1882) had,

As I was lumbering down the streets of bully London town,
I spied a Yankee clipper ship to New York she was bound.
(Cho.) And hurrah, you Santy, my dear honey;
Hurrah, you Santy, I love you for your money.

Incidentally, a funny comment by Alden was that this song was "unmistakably negro from the fact that the expression "my honey," so common among the negroes of the South, occurs in it." I don't know if this was true for "honey" at the time, but it certainly struck this early writer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM

Which is interesting to me, because I didn't know the Tapscott theme was as widely varied and applied as that. (There's no reason for me to have thought it wasn't widely spread and subject to such variation, just came as a surprise for some reason)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 01:23 PM

Indeed, I think your right Richard -- it was not widely spread, outside of the ballad forms about the "Irish Emigrant" and the "Heave Away My Johnnies/We're All Bound to Go." Surprise is justified! But the general practice of swapping lyrics to chanties, of course, was widely spread. It points to the "core" of the chanty being its chorus. This is one of those interesting cases where a form that is quite English (I think?), has been combined with a chorus that is allegedly Black American or at least (I think so) of more modern "American" vintage.
"Heave Away My Johnnies" may have been the same deal. It's common solo theme became the Irish Emigrant/Tapscott ballad, but earlier attested form(s) have it (identified by its chorus, that is) as a Black steamboatman's song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:24 PM

Hi folks - yes, I've been promoting this project since we started it in 2009. All the recordings are now made, and vol.1 was released in May (and Doug at Wild Goose Records has already done a re-press). The correct website address for the project and the FULL notes on the shanties is www.umbermusic.co.uk/SSSnotes.htm (which appears in the sleeve notes) rather than the S&A projects link which is on the back of the tray! Sorry about that.

Read the website page - and we'll gladly answer any questions that arise. Volume 2 will be released in September 2011, and vol.3 next spring - that will then complete the entire repertoire of Yankee Jack - the only shantyman ever to get an obituary in The Times(UK). (except that I'm still writing a book on his life and times - researching him means we now know the ships he sailed on and the history he sailed through).

BB and I together with Jim Mageean will be giving our Short Sharp Shanties presentation at the Harwich (UK) Shanty Festival (October), and we're hoping to get over to the Mystic Festival & Symposium next year.

In the meantime, copies of vol.1 can be had from Jeff Warner in the States, from Wild Goose records wherever you are, and from most of the performers at their gigs in the UK. There will be a pre-release special offer order form for vol.2 on the website before too long.

Keep discussing - the website should answer some of the questions already raised. (Just incidentally, the Wild Goose Nation in the shanties seems to derive from the Southern States rather than from Ireland).

TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM

TomB-

As I have said above, this is a very nicely done CD.

I tried linking to "www.umbermusic.co.uk/SSSnotes.htm" in my first post above but it didn't seem to work. Do you have an explanation.

I'll try it again here as a "blue clicky" and it probably will work fine: click here for track notes

Nope it still doesn't work. Here's the note:

The requested URL was not found on this server:
/www.umbermusic.co.uk/SSSnotes.htm

(c:\!webserver\mudcat\htdocs\www.umbermusic.co.uk\SSSnotes.htm)

Please return to the referring document and note the hypertext link that led you here.


Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Reinhard
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:18 PM

You should use http://www.umbermusic.co.uk/SSSnotes.htm

Without the http:// prefix your browser assumes that the link refers to a page on the current, i.e. the Mudcat server.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM

Reinhard-

Thanks! I assumed that the Mudcat "blue clicky" link routine automatically did that but I'll not quarrel with something that works.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 05:07 AM

Sorry, Charley. And thanks, Reinhard.
TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 10:28 AM

Tom-

You and the cited shanty collectors are evidently missing an important reference to "Stormalong John," as an early minstrel song, which may well have been adapted from an existing stevedore work chant for handling cotton bales:

As sung by J. Smith of White's Serenaders at the Melodeon, New York City, from White's New Ethiopian Song Book, published by T.B. Peterson & Bros., Philadelphia, US, © 1854, p. 71,

Storm Along Stormy

O I wish I was in Mobile bay,
Storm along, Stormy.
Screwing cotton all de day,
Storm along, Stormy.
O you rollers, storm along,
Storm along, Stormy.
Hoist away an' sing dis song,
Storm along, Stormy.

I wish I was in New Orleans,
Storm along, Stormy.
Eating up dem pork an' beans,
Storm along, Stormy.
Roll away in spite ob wedder,
Storm along, Stormy.
Come, lads, push all togedder,
Storm along, Stormy.

I wish I was in Baltimore,
Storm along, Stormy.
Dancing on dat Yankee shore,
Storm along, Stormy.
One bale more, den we'be done,
Storm along, Stormy.
De sun's gwan down, an' we'll go home.
Storm along, Stormy.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 12:00 PM

Charley - thanks for that. I had picked it up on your posting of 15th May, but hadn't got round to amending the website notes. Thanks for the reminder! That's one of the joys of having it on-line - we can always update (already have updated several in fact). The Mobile and Baltimore couplets cetainly went straight into the shanty repertoire.
TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM

Tom-

I just did a refresh of our old discussion thread of the origin of "Johnny Come Down to Hilo."

Of the many explanations of "Hilo" offered by shantymen and shanty collectors, none, I believe, have mentioned the use of the term in 1840's plantation work songs. Here's the relevant citation from the above discussion thread:

A fragment from an early 19th century field worksong, from THE MUSIC OF BLACK AMERICANS, pp. 153:

Oh, this is the day to roll and go,
Hill-up, boys, hilo;
Oh, this is the day to roll and go,
Hill-up, boys, hilo.

Again, two birds with a single stone, "hilo" and "roll and go."

The fact that "hilo" was an early term used in this work chant, presumably for a spree or party, doesn't mean that deep-water sailormen didn't associate the term with the port on the west coast of South America. But it does reinforce the claim that the term originated with Black African Americans. It's equally intriguing, of course, to run across the term "roll and go" in a plantation work song.

Research can still be rewarding!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM

Here's a another quote from the Origin of Johnny Come Down to Hilo thread from Mark Cohen focused on the meaning of "hilo":

"But in some of these Hilo shanties it was not a port, either in Hawaii or Peru, to which they were referring. Sometimes the word was a substitute for a 'do', a 'jamboree', or even a 'dance'. And in some cases the word was used as a verb--to 'hilo' somebody or something."

Makes sense to me.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 03:12 PM

OK - so now we've got Short, with only one verse given to Sharp, singing a fusion of: a black field work-song (hilo), a minstrel creation (girl with the blue dress), and a dead horse ceremony (poor old man came riding by).
Ho hum!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 08:26 PM

Tom-

Well, what can we say but that those old-time shantymen certainly did a great job of cobbling together songs drawn from all corners of the world, without the benefit of the internet or the world wide web.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:40 PM

Volume 2 is now out! Check the Wild Goose website


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 02:08 PM

Thank you! I just ordered both CDs from Wild Goose.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: shipcmo
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM

Finally was able to get my copy. It was worth the wait.
Cheers,
Geo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: shipcmo
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 09:03 AM

Vol 3 arrived here in the Colonies yesterday. Great!
Cheers,
Geo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:03 AM

Thanks for Vol. 3, Tom!   

All three CDs are beautifully done. Every performance is a delight.

After Stan Hugill, John Short undoubtedly influenced the shanty revival more than any other source singer - and since he was never recorded, few people realize it!

His repertoire of some 60 shanties, all learned between 1848 and 1880, significantly fits right in with Alden's estimate in the 1880s that a good shantyman knew roughly that many.

Short told both Cecil Sharp and Richard Runciman Terry that the shanties usually had only two or three regulation verses, after which you began to invent or mix and match. That squares perfectly with the usually brief performances that James M. Carpenter recorded from Short's contemporaries in the late '20s. The CD singers (male and female) have fleshed out Short's verses with some from Hugill and elsewhere. In some cases they came up with a few their own, but hardly anyone will be able to tell these from the real McCoy. That shows how well they've mastered their material.

Rather than strive for an authentic shipboard sound, the performances are in the middle-of-the-road revival style. The all-acoustic instrumental backups seem just right. (Think Lloyd and MacColl's "Blow Boys Blow" and "A Sailor's Garland.")

A major contribution to the core of must-have revival albums. Tom Brown and his crew deserve our gratitude. Great work all around!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: doc.tom
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:58 AM

shipcmo & Lighter: Many thanks for your kind words.

As before, the CDs can be had from Jeff Warner stateside, from WildGoose Records - @ www.wildgoose.co.uk - or from Keith Kendrick, Jim Mageean, Jackie Oates or Tom & Barbara Brown at personal gigs in the UK. We're also taking the launch line-up (Warner, Oates, Kendrick, Bailey & the Browns)on the UK road for a few concerts this Autumn (PM me if you want details).

BB had I had REALLY wanted to get to Mystic this year and do a paper on the man, but financed precluded.

I'll post when the book on Short's life is published - fascinating!

TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties CD
From: Dead Horse
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:45 PM

doc tom, those seamen WERE the world wide web of their day, surfing from ship to ship and carrying their own take on the shanties of the era.
The variations of verses used compounded with the choruses attached, plus the particular 'tune' applied, makes any definative study almost endless in its conclusions.
Rules to singing shanties may have evolved, but they would vary from ship to ship and 'leader' to 'leader'.
If you were to state a concrete fact, given a few moments thought I could come up with a couple of examples to deny that fact.
Damned interesting, aint it :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties vol.1
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:26 AM

I do hope that the verses not from Short have been identified as such!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties vol.1
From: GUEST,dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:32 AM

All three volumes of SSS are available in the US from CAMSCO.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties vol.1
From: doc.tom
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:02 AM

AT LAST! The biography of John Short - his life, the history he lived through, the ships he sailed in and his shanties are all there. Publication date is on 23rd September 2014 - the centenary of Sharp's last collecting visit to Short. £10:99 plus postage. Details on the website, as ever www.umbermusic.co.uk (blue clicky please?)

TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Short Sharp Shanties vol.1
From: BB
Date: 04 Jun 15 - 04:20 PM

Didn't know you didn't know how to make a blue clicky, Tom! You should have asked... Here 'tis.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 16 December 9:55 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.