BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 03:29 AM

"NO more - - - and certainly NO LESS ! ! "
Sorry, can't possibly agree.
As tragic as the killings are, the implications reach far beyond the events and those directly affected.
This massacre was carried out as an attempted rallying call to all racists - an attempt to "wake up Europeans" to the "threat of immigration and multi-culturalism".
There are those out there who believe, and openly advocate that anybody who is different from us is in some way inferior and a threat to our way of life and should be "dealt with" or, as somebody put it, "action needs to be taken now to reverse some of the policies which have created the "time bomb"
Already, links are becoming apparent between the killer, the English Defence League and crazies like the newly-revived Knights Templars - ignore this and the Breiviks of this world win.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: GUEST, - AKS
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 12:02 AM

11 days later . . .

It doesn't seem so important now what the killer's motivations were for the horrific slaughter of so many innocents, or who &/or what claimed responsibility at the time, or any of the extraneous B.S. that often follows large newsmaking events.

What really matters is the tragic loss of lives . . .

NO more - - - and certainly NO LESS ! !
May all of their families know our condolences and find comfort in their memories of their loved ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM

Fixed link:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/190990/20110802/norway-massacre-oslo-shooting-utoya-anders-breivik-lesbian-couple-rescue-youth-camp.htm

Some kind of limit on the length of URL I could copy.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:10 PM

Your link didn't work Jack. I found this.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:01 PM

When a couple rescue 40 people under fire you might expect it to be an internationally reported story, yes?

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/190990/20110802/norway-massacre-oslo-shooting-utoya-anders-breivik-lesbian-couple-rescue-youth-c

Funny how the British media never noticed that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:23 AM

My sympathies to you, and all who are touched by this obscenity.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:03 AM

Don't think I'll bother doing that Kevin and I think I've said all I want to on this. I have to brace myself for a funeral associated with this outrage early next week and just simply cannot be bothered devoting any more energy arguing with the likes of you or Jerkwad Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

Thank you Penny. That was lovely. I remember that hymn from my childhood in my Grandmother's Anglican church. I guess I was too young to be aware of the words. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:42 AM

You could even stick a link to it in this thread, in case anyone wants to join you in a discussion of the things you want to talk about.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:40 AM

Go off and start another thread please, Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

"This is how one holds bigotry in one's mind in the face of reasonable exrernal evidence." - Jerkwad Jack

What a great pity therefore that no such "exrernal" or even "external" evidence reasonable or otherwise has been proffered by said Jack or anyone else for that matter.

Back to the terror group Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami and the lies they told. Without a shadow of doubt they did that to cause trouble and make a bad situation even worse. But in doing so they follow the precedent and example of existing and previous Muslim leaders

Ayman Al-Zawahri's message was used to lend "credibility" to their lies. But there is no bullshit involved with regard to the statement this terrorist made in 2003. It is an irrefutable fact that he specifically mentioned Norway as a target - or does Jerkwad Jack dispute that?

The one time leader of a faction of Arabs in Palestine Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (The uncle of Yasser Arafat) deliberately propagated lies to foment trouble between the Jewish and Arab people of Palestine on at least three occasions before the Second World War resulting in riot, bloodshed and death.

Subsequently the people who Jack and his partner have elected to champion have consistently elected to chose the path of violence, terror and war to further their cause. That being the case they should then learn to live with the consequences of their choices and actions - everybody else on this planet has to what makes them the exception?

If the official UN definition of a Palestinian is someone who has lived there for two years, then the Jews are as much Palestinians as the Arabs and have as much right to live there as the Arabs.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 03:18 AM

"It was a rhetorical question."
It was a rhetorical response - met this feller before.
Jim Carrol

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Penny S.
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 03:16 AM

Navy hymn

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:06 PM

"Strong"...
........................

One thing that has struck me is how impressive the Norwegians seen on TV have been in the way they have responded to all this.   

That includes the Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg. I kept on imagining how most British politicians I am accustomed to seeing on TV would have coped.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:03 PM

GUESTWotcha

What ship? I sailed into Lerwick about 10 years ago on board the Norwegian barque Staadsrad Lehmkuhl. Coincidentally, just three weeks before last week's massacre, I was in Bergen, her home port, for a weekend, on holidays. The rest of our time was in Oslo - so it really hurts to watch them suffer. At the same time, of course, I'm lost in admiration of their reaction.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:52 PM

Thanks for that post. It was a nice one. I don't know this song or the word "Stron." "Eternal Father Stron to Save" could you please elaborate?

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: GUEST,Wotcha
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:38 PM

We got the news on board ship via Polish satellite TV before leaving Lerwick for Stavanger. More than a bit of a damper for the Tall Ships event. It is a terrible thing. Lerwick held a suitable memorial (outdoor Church Service in the rain) service before the ships left: Eternal Father Stron to Save resonated with all. Upon arrival in Stavanger a minute of silence and flags at half mast was the order of the day. Flowers everywhere.    This will take considerable time to work through -- at the same time the Poles are just getting around to the aircrash that wiped out their president and senior leaders 18 months ago at Katyn... Scars that may never heal.

Blessings,

Wotcha just off the sea ...

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:41 AM

It was a rhetorical question.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:38 AM

"Will he stop before he completely destroys all credibility on this forum?"
Credibility????
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:22 AM

Overheated rhetoric ... "paranoid crap"

Hardly "overheated". It seems a reasonable & accurate description of what's been expresed by this individual.

Now "pollute" may be inaccurate, but not by much.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:03 AM

Overheated rhetoric "pollutes the thread" as well as "paranoid crap". Absolutely no point to indulging in it. Might as well stand in a corner and shout.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:54 AM

Again, Bull Shit by Teribus. Invoking alleged 8 year old statements on this thread and thus implying that the events were linked.

If Teribus believes this paranoid crap, he should be talking to a mental heath professional rather than polluting this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:46 AM

>>Ah so definitely cannot come with the names of organisations or groups that claimed responsibilty for those attacks.<<

Its interesting that at first he said "no nutter" which would mean no individual or group. But to refute his unsupportable statement, which he refuses to defend he now demands the names of organizations. This is the way the bigoted mind works. This is how one holds bigotry in one's mind in the face of reasonable exrernal evidence.

Will he stop before he completely destroys all credibility on this forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 06:15 AM

Early days yet, but there is growing evidence of a link between the killings and the English Defence League.
According to this mornings Irish Times, in what is described as a "rambling statement"... Breivik has claimed links with the league," though oddly, he thinks that they are "anti racist, anti fascist and anti Nazi, and he decries them for accepting non-white members"
Leader of the league, Tommy Robinson condemns the killings "but he does not want to decry the beliefs that led to Breivik's actions.... "the slaughter might wake Europeans up""
Ex League activist Paul Ray, now head of the newly revived Knight's Templars, who claimes to have provided the inspiration for Breitvik's actions, has been detained for questioning by the British police.
Whether organisations or groups have "claimed responsibility" they all seem to have crawled out of the same cess pit.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Monique
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:39 AM

The link Teribus provided doesn't work, here it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:13 AM

"Attack the missions of the United States, the UK, Australia and Norway and their interests, companies and employees. Turn the ground beneath their feet into an inferno and kick them out of your countries," - Ayman Al-Zawahri Taped Message aired by Al-Jezeera Television - Reported 21st May 2003

Oslo bomb 22nd July - Could this - www.norwaycup.no - have been the event that the terror group Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad wanted to stir things up at.

If so they have failed remarkably the tournament involving some 54 countries and thousands of young people is proceeding uniterrupted as planned.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:40 AM

Ah so definitely cannot come with the names of organisations or groups that claimed responsibilty for those attacks.

And your only complaint is that I did not "hedge" my bets in making the statement that I did - Pathetic.

Now tell me why the Jihadi Group attempted to claim responsibility for the Oslo Bomb? MGOH - Kevin I am asking a specific question, I do not want a whole rake of carefully hedged bullshit about, "well its what people do"

My belief is that they claimed it in the hope of fomenting trouble and creating a situation that they hoped to exploit in order to radicalise muslim youth in an area that really is rather peaceful.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:53 PM

My words are clear enough for anyone to read. No one needs your skewed interpretation of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:32 PM

Ah, so in other words Jack you cannot substantiate your assertion that other organisations or groups claimed responsibility. Why not just say so. Put up or shut up, I have told you who did claim responsibility, now it's your turn to come up with your alternatives. If you can't then it is you who have been bullshitting not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 11:28 AM

No pal. You are the bullshitter. You made the outrageous claim. You need to support it.

Think about what McGrath of Harlow said.

"I am not aware of any claims..." might have been a way of avoiding that trap.

Even after that you claim that the burden of truth is on me. You have given yourself license in an argument to claim everything that is unprovable supports your side. Be careful with this. It will lead you to delude yourself. It may even lead you to think that your Bull Shit arguments matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 11:11 AM

But no nut confessed to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre.

You Jack are claiming that that statement is untrue decrying it as bullshit, yet when challenged to substantiate why you think it is untrue you are somehow unable to do so - sounds like its you thats doing the bullshitting.

In this instance the majority of those you did carry out the attack were either captured or killed. Operation financed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

No nutter confessed to the 2001 atacks on the WTC and Pentagon."

Again Jack is unable to substantiate his claim that someone other than Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for this attack, so on the face of it that statement of mine is perfectly correct and it is Jack that is bullshitting.

No nutter claimed responsiblity for the London 7/7 attacks.

This one has already been dealt with only one organisation has claim responsibility Al-Qaeda, so unless Jack comes up with information to the contrary this claim stands as being correct.

No nutter claimed responsibility for the Madrid 11/03 train bombings

Those who operationally carried out the attack, those who committed suicide after the attack, were described as a loose cell. The technical support (the design and construction of the bombs used) was obtained from the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group who were taught to make the bombs in Jalalabad in Afghanistan by......wait for it.......Al-Qaeda.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:34 AM

The problem is that if he had said "I am not aware of", it would not have made his original argument and it would not have served his main purpose of belittling Kevin's argument. It also would not have pissed me off.

The fact is that Kevin was absolutely correct. There are nutters out there willing to claim almost everything. The Psych wards are full of people convinced that they are Jesus and Napoleon. To state categorically that it did not happen in several well known cases. is very reckless and arrogant. Is it not?

I also remember reports of different "groups" claiming responsibility for the 1993 bombing. Of course I do not remember the details. Such claims even then were common, even then they were little more than background noise.

Teribus has called me a bigot, he says I am a bigot because I am prejudiced against his ideas. That is not the definition I use for the word "bigot" is it yours?

This exchange has convinced me that Teribus, like many of his unfortunate political persuasion, is a Bull Shitter, talking in scientifically measured prose but pulling data out of his arse or out of the arses of the right wing xenophobic arseholes he likes to listen to on the radio. We should all take everything he says with a large grain of salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:07 AM

Right on the button McG.
BTW, hope your health's holding up. Good to have your sagely words around here again!

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:41 AM

And that is one reason why careful construction of arguments is important, since it tends to counter that tendency for disagreements to be ratcheted up.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:23 AM

That's a good point, McG. Unfortunately, when the tension and invective are ratcheted up the way they've been here and on the other 'Norway' thread(s), the concepts of careful construction of arguments and use of polished grammar have a tendency to leave the building.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:59 AM

There's something very clumsy about claiming a series of negatives ("No nut confessed to..."), and then, when asked to back-up that claim, responding "...are you asking that I prove a negative?"

"I am not aware of any claims..." might have been a way of avoiding that trap.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:47 AM

Whose turn is it in the barrel tonight?

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:39 AM

Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:01 AM

Already disproved your assertion over 7/7

You are saying that somebody else claimed responsibility for the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre - Should be simple enough for you so who?

You Jack are a bigot and a fool, you are indeed an immigrant jerkwad.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:16 PM

Here is a list of things you have to prove. You said it. Now prove it!

>>But no nut confessed to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre.
No nutter confessed to the 2001 atacks on the WTC and Pentagon.
No nutter claimed responsiblity for the London 7/7 attacks.
No nutter claimed responsibility for the Madrid 11/03 train bombings<<

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:13 PM

Good heavens Jack are you asking that I prove a negative?

Good Heavens No! I am asking you to prove your claim. I know it is unprovable that is how I am showing everyone here that you are a Bull Shitter and and idiot. You claimed to know something that is not knowable and had the balls and stupidity to use that unprovable claim in an argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:02 PM

Good heavens Jack are you asking that I prove a negative?

Thought that was impossible. I made a statement you disputed it it is up to you to provide substantiation not me.

Khan tape mentioned Zawahiri, if Khan had received his training from the Atef group then all three could legitimately lay claim to responsibility all for the same organisation and all for the same cause.

The Islamist crowd that claimed responsibility for the Oslo bomb did so for one reason and for one reason only - they hoped to provoke a violent reaction in Oslo and in Norway against the Muslim community - they failed and the authorities were onto preventing that extremely quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:19 PM

I need to call BullShit again.

At least two groups claimed credit. At least one group was obviously a nutter claiming false credit.

It's not rocket science. Unless your world view is that all Muslims, are in the same group or that any people claiming to be part of Al Qaeda are not nutters.


Now please PROVE that NO one besides the perpetrators claimed credit for any or those attacks. Or shut up about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:02 PM

The organisation who claimed responsibility for the 7/7 attacks in London was ......... wait for it ........... Al-Qaeda

Mohammed Atef was while still alive Chief of Operations responsible for the organising, planning and support of all attacks carried out by ......... wait for it ........ Al-Qaeda

The group or faction that took his name after he was killed in Afghanistan by forces attached to the US-OEF mission was part of which terror organisation ........ wait for it ....... Al-Qaeda

By Christ Jack if you had a brain you'd be dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 09:14 AM

Teribus I have no interest in conversing with you. But I will point out your Bullshit. Be a little careful about it, stop insulting our intelligence and you will not hear from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 09:01 AM

Tell us who Mohammed Atef was.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:25 AM

Daily Show response

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:13 AM

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393042/july-25-2011/norwegian-muslish-gunman-s-islam-esque-atrocity?redirect=true

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:58 AM

I am unimpressed with advice in communication from someone to lazy to avoid hyperbole that, by comparison makes Glen Beck look fair and balanced.

Here is some plain English.

Put up or shut up.

Prove that no one else claimed responsibility for any of those incidents.

Or be considered a Bull Shitter.

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:30 PM

Jack the Sailor you write a lot but say very little.

"I believe that you are wrong in each and every one of there cases."

Should of course read:

I believe that you are wrong in each and every one of those cases.

If so point out where smart ass by the way are you a legal immigrant jerkwad or a an illegal immigrant jerkwad you didn't say.

" I really wish that you had enough respect for us to at least research the obvious before you Bull Shit ud."

Could you possibly rephrase that in English??

Please answer the questions that have been put to you before asking any others.